Wishing to be a girl, is it CD or TS related?

[AmandaM]

Why do I continually wish I was a cute girl but don't feel like a transsexual? If I could snap my fingers and become one of the girls I see, I would do it. I feel like I've been cheated since I am not one of them. But, I don't feel I am supposed to be a woman. I don't desire to be "me" in a woman's body. Anyone feel this way? What does it mean to you?

[Desirae]

When you say you don't desire to be "you" in a woman's body, do you mean if you were being aware that you were once male and are now a woman? The only way that could ever be is if you were "reborn" as a girl and had no recollection of ever being a male. To me, this sounds like something that should be discussed with a gender therapist. Actually, snapping your fingers and becoming one of the girls you "see" would automatically remove "you" in the transformation, because you would become "them", whoever that is.

I think a lot of us have had this "fantasy", for lack of a better word. I wouldn't mind being "me", though. I think it would be OK to still be me but just be in a different body.

[devida]

What is a non op TS? Really? Okay. A non op ts is someone who does not consider themselves to be the gender they were assigned at birth but does not want to use surgical interventions and often does not even want to use hormones to change their bodies to reflect that they are not the gender assigned at birth. I am a non op transexual to the extent I do not identify as male but also do not want to transition to female because although I would kind of like secondary female characteristics like tits I do not want top surgery. Also I am probably too old for hormones to do much and I am unsure of the actual level of medical knowledge. I don't trust doctors. I prefer to define myself as transgender because I do not want to pass as a woman and do not want to become a woman, for pretty much the same reasons I do not like being a man. I just can't stand the binaries. But I am also happy to describe myself as a non op transsexual, or at least somewhere along that spectrum. Many non op no ho transexuals do live as women. So, really I suppose I am a non op no hormone transgender transexual. I am not really a cross dresser because I dress according to my gender, which happens to be somewhere between the binaries of male and female.

And also please, can we stop with the absolute statements like either you are transexual or you are not? This is just not true. It is just more of the tired old binary conditioning that just makes my head hurt.

I understand how difficult it is for all the cross dressers and mtf full transexuals who are transitioning from one sex to another to understand this, but please just try. I am far from alone and there are an awful lot of young people like me. I just happen to be kind of rare among the older population of folks who are on this forum.

[AmandaM]

Transient TS feelings means that sometimes I feel like I'm probably TS and should pursue it. Then the feelings dissipate, and I feel I'm just a CDer. These feelings get stronger and weaker over time with no "trigger" that I can define. They ebb and flow, neither feeling wins completely. For gay markers, let's make it simple, if a guy swishes a bit, or is a little limp-wristed, the first thought of others is not that he is a CDer.

[LelaK]

[] A non op ts is someone who does not consider themselves to be the gender they were assigned at birth but does not want to use surgical interventions and often does not even want to use hormones to change their bodies to reflect that they are not the gender assigned at birth. I am a non op transexual to the extent I do not identify as male but also do not want to transition to female because although I would kind of like secondary female characteristics like tits I do not want top surgery. Also I am probably too old for hormones to do much and I am unsure of the actual level of medical knowledge. I don't trust doctors. I prefer to define myself as transgender because I do not want to pass as a woman and do not want to become a woman, for pretty much the same reasons I do not like being a man. I just can't stand the binaries. But I am also happy to describe myself as a non op transsexual, or at least somewhere along that spectrum. Many non op no ho transexuals do live as women. So, really I suppose I am a non op no hormone transgender transexual. I am not really a cross dresser because I dress according to my gender, which happens to be somewhere between the binaries of male and female.

Same here, except I still crossdress quite a bit. I think I’ll still call myself a CD regardless of how I dress in the future.

Amanda,
CDers do not feel cheated that they were born male. Feeling that you have been cheated out of life as a girl is a damn good indication that you are experiencing gender dysphoria, and identify as female or something other than male.

I feel more disappointed than cheated. I figure there may be a good reason I was born male, but I’ll likely remain disappointed as male at least as long as I don’t know what the good reason was. I’ll keep calling myself a CD though. When I joined this site, I posted to the transsexuals section, but they said if I don’t plan to transition I should use the CD section.

[Anne2345]

Devida, on the one hand, you state that you are a non-op TS, but then you go on to write that you "dress according to my gender, which happens to be somewhere between the binaries of male and female."

You can't have it both ways, Devida. If you are a MtF TS, you identify as a woman. You do not fall somewhere in "between the binaries of male and female." By your own words you defeat your own argument, and tank your credibility. Do you even understand what being a transsexual really means? Judging by your response, I would say you haven't a clue.

This is why words are so important. Because they have very specific meanings. And meaning can make all the difference in the world and then some.

As for the statements I choose to write here on this forum, whether such statements are in the form of an absolute or not, who are you to ask me not to do so? How about this instead - why don't you first take the time to actually substantively learn and educate yourself about the actual issues here, instead of writing such completely irrelevant, meaningless, and unhelpful stuff as "I am unsure of the actual level of medical knowledge. I don't trust doctors."

I mean really, you would make my head hurt if I cared anything about your opinion whatsoever. Thankfully, I do not. Except in as much as it may be dangerous to those such as AmandaM.

All I have done is ask her some questions relevant to the OP in an effort to better understand her position and what she thinks.

In fact, she is doing quite a good job of further explaining herself and making her feelings more clear. All of these things are necessary.

If Amanda thinks these questions are hard, she is in for quite a rude awakening and in for a seriously hard time if she pursues a path into TS Land. But based upon what I've seen so far, she has handled herself with grace, dignity, and responsiveness. She has not gotten defensive, she has not run away, and she has stuck with this thread.

And good for her. I respect that.

Oh, and if your head still hurts, you may want to see a doctor about that. Oh, my bad, I forgot - you don't trust doctors . . . . .

[MatildaJ.]

I have these thoughts everyday. It's tiring and frustrating. Maybe it's cause I have kids at home and can rarely dress? Maybe I need more girl time.

maybe these jealousy feelings dog me everyday cause I can't dress except every couple of months.

That sounds likely. Could you try to build in more time to dress, late at night with a locked door to keep out the kids, or out of the house at a support group of some kind?

[ReineD]

...I am a non op transexual to the extent I do not identify as male but also do not want to transition to female because although I would kind of like secondary female characteristics like tits I do not want top surgery.

...

And also please, can we stop with the absolute statements like either you are transexual or you are not? This is just not true. It is just more of the tired old binary conditioning that just makes my head hurt.

I totally understand what you're saying, and I think you described it very well!

You are referring to "transsexual" as being "beyond" the gender identity assigned at birth, based on genitals. So in effect, you live your current life having transitioned from the strictly male that I am guessing you were raised as.

I also think that a lot of people forget there are multiple things to "transition" to. A person born with male genitals and raised as a boy, if she identifies as a woman, can fully transition (to the utmost of medical possibility) with HRT, FFS & BA (if needed), and SRS. This woman would hate all her male sexual characteristics, obviously. And a person born with male genitals and raised as a boy can also transition, as you say, to non-binary gender ... neither fully male nor female.

I think a lot of members here consider "transsexual" to mean a someone who transitions from the male sex to the female sex and they believe the transitioners to be firmly in the binary female camp. I believe this is how traditionally the community has defined it, before there was any understanding of gender-nonconformity.

So we really do need two different words, in order to dispense with disagreements over terminology: one for a person who transcends/transitions from the sex they were assigned at birth to the opposite sex in the gender-binary (what most people define as transsexual), and one who transcends/transitions to non-conforming gender (while still retaining some of all of their male sexual characteristics), which is how you describe yourself: outside of the gender-binary, neither male nor female. I want to note that both these persons can be considered feminine, if this is how they see themselves. And I dare say that both would also feel cheated, disappointed, or any other such feeling, in not having the world see them as who they feel they are internally, which in both cases are different than the gender they were assigned at birth.

You used the term, "transgender transsexual". I can't think of any better, unless maybe "non-conforming TS" (NCTS) might do? The term "transgender" in itself tends to confuse because it is a huge mishmash that both some CDs and TSs use to define themselves, although increasingly I wonder if more people like you are appropriating the term for themselves.

We have way too many different types of people in this community to try to fit them all into two or three general labels. lol

[Michelle789]

I feel like I've been cheated since I am not one of them.

Amanda,

CDers do not feel cheated that they were born male. Feeling that you have been cheated out of life as a girl is a damn good indication that you are experiencing gender dysphoria, and identify as female or something other than male.

Last summer I felt exactly the same way you did. I wanted to die and be reincarnated as a woman in my next life (and all lifetimes there afterwards too). Fast forward to summer 2014, and I have been living close to full time - basically I live as a woman all situations except AA because I am not out to everyone yet. I will be coming out at AA soon and start attending AA as my authentic self. I have been seeing a gender therapist since February, and hopefully will be starting hormones on August 1.

I second everything Paula said.

I would recommend seeing a gender therapist - I have been seeing one for the past five months and she helped me tremendously.

Also you may or may not be TS. You might also be genderqueer, bigender, gender fluid, androgynous, or something else. If you need to transition, you do not need to do all surgeries or even hormones to transition - although most TSes go on hormones.

Please feel free to send me a PM if you wish to talk

[Badwolf]

Your title suggests you wish to be a girl, but then you say you don't feel like you don't want to be in a woman's body.

TS tends to be more of the wish to be of the opposite sex, and would qualify almost by definition.

[AmandaM]

I think if I was a transsexual I would HAVE to be a woman no matter what I looked like, etc. So, why do I desire to physically be the cute girls I see?

[MatildaJ.]

Everyone is envious of healthy, attractive young women. They represent fertility and life to our culture. But if you actually were one, you would find out they are just as unhappy and insecure as the rest of humanity.

[Kate Simmons]

Being happy being yourself is the real key to happiness, whoever that "self" happens to be.

[Lucy Long Legs]

Don't you feel like one of those cute girls when your dressed?

[ReluctantDebutant]

Only you can know for sure whether you are merely a CD or you are destined to transition into a woman. But it is quite possible for a CDer to wonder what life would be like being born with another X chromosome. Cross-dressers are human they have imaginations by definition they have a desire to wear women's clothing. Usually they want to look good wearing that clothing and not look like a man in a dress. So they often see themselves looking as feminine as the imagination will take them. Desiring to wear women's clothing and wanting to look good do it can often bring up the thoughts that life wearing women's clothing would somehow being easier if one was born a woman. You get to dress in t-shirt a jeans like a man when you want to without having people think you are strange when you want to be all pretty an wear a dress and make-up. So you see it is quite possible to think about such things and still be a CD especially when the desire to cross-dress hits hard. I should know I have done it many times.

If I have learned one thing hanging out on the internet with Cross-dressers and Transsexuals is that if you want to change you sex you have to do so unconditionally. You can't go into only if you get to be cute or pretty, you can't go into it only if you get to feel wonderful and happy all the time. One should only go into it to just feel right with themselves despite what good or bad still lay ahead.

[Michelle789]

Amanda, I was also experiencing transient TS feelings this time last year like you describe, and that lasted until I finally admitted that I was TS two months ago. I still have some inner dialog and fight myself, but no where near as much as I used to.

[Angela Campbell]

Your title suggests you wish to be a girl, but then you say you don't feel like you don't want to be in a woman's body.

TS tends to be more of the wish to be of the opposite sex, and would qualify almost by definition.

not really. TS is not the desire to be the other sex, it is knowing that you already are but your body doesn't match.

[I Am Paula]

I will just add to what Angela said, cause she is always one step ahead of me.
The absence of GD, or the all encompassing NEED to make body match mind seems to be missing here. IMHO, once the need arises, you'll know it. In the meantime, enjoy being able to be whomever you want.

[sometimes_miss]

Everyone is envious of healthy, attractive young women. <snip> if you actually were one, you would find out they are just as unhappy and insecure as the rest of humanity.

^this. virtually all of us see female lives through rose colored glasses, also, in hindsight. GG's growing up have incredibly complicated lives, and to them, it's never all good. Even the really beautiful ones have problems, and being that beautiful is often a hell of a lot of work, not to mention being hated by a good percentage of her peers just because she does look that good, and for no other reason. Guys simply don't feel that way about other guys; if we hate another guy, it's because of something he's done, done to us, or how he treats us, not because he's more attractive to girls. At least that's been my experience. Girls have very difficult social lives. We usually only see the up side. Real female relationships with other females are, well, just nuts.

Well what if you were offered the chance to be a frumpy plain girl? If you're TS you'd say yes. If it's no well.................But remember even less attractive women wish they were cute girls.

I thought of that. But then I remembered back in high school, virtually all of the girls were attractive to me; normal bodies, normal hair, normal faces. I'm not talking about what is average today; today, obese and horrible hair styles is considered normal. Back then, sure, some were exceptionally good looking, but even the plain janes were pretty. I had to go back and look in my yearbook; and yeah, I would have been quite willing to have been any of all but three of the 250 girls in my graduating class. But trading in a life as a sub par looking guy to become a truly ugly girl? What would be the point? Misery in a female body is no better than misery in a male one. At least normal people have a normal chance of meeting a mate. Truly ugly people have about the same chance as a crossdresser has; slim to none.

[mariehart]

I mentioned it because I asked myself that very question, if you like a kind of self test of my commitment. The key thing here is not whether you want to look like a woman but whether you want to interact with other people as a woman and live as a woman with all the compromises that entails. Indeed many post op girls really don't pass that well and are not cute. But that's not the point. It's the need to be true to your inner self.

Having said all that I am content that much as I'd like to be a cute girl. It's a bit late for me now. As it is I bear a strong resemblance to a couple of sisters and my Mother. All of whom remain good looking as they aged. I'd settle for that.

[Lorileah]

I dunno I always wanted to be a famous race car driver or a music star or rich. Being envious of a young gir's body and wishing to be her is one thing. Wanting to be A girl is different. You are fantasizing

[Katey888]

Be cool, members..

Please try to keep this on the OPs quite straightforward premise and responses and do not get too personal or tangential in your perspectives.

I would remind everyone here that we are each entitled to our own opinion and have a limited right to voice those opinions without unduly attacking anyone else... so keep it reasonable and on topic, please...

Katey
Moderator

[Badwolf]

not really. TS is not the desire to be the other sex, it is knowing that you already are but your body doesn't match.

Quick search of the definition comes up with this: "a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex."

I'm going to sidestep this for a moment and start with a different subject.

All of these terms we're talking about are normally rooted in psychology (specifically a book called DSM), and as they are applied in many cases are in terms of treatment.

When I say it sounds more TS based, it's based on the fact that the drive to be female can sound like a version of feeling that they should have BEEN born that way. According to some metrics I have TS tendencies as well even though I identify as a CD. Again since they are defined based on treatments of mental disorders, the true question is how am I going to achieve a happy and productive life. Since TS procedures are normally pretty intense, it is treated as a situation that requires "persistent discomfort", and/or "clinically significant distress or impairment in work or social life." While I might have passing versions of those I don't really qualify, nor do I think full gender reassignment is right for me clearly.

The lack of these symptoms means it doesn't meet the clinical definition for diagnosis, or treatment, but doesn't mean the emotions can be related to the same general causes. Meaning that when I say the comments FEEL based more on one definition, I am by no means suggesting that the individual qualifies under the guidelines for treatment of said "disorder". The only way to know that is for the person to really soul search a lot more and figure out if the current clinical definitions and diagnosis (which aren't perfect either), fit them or not. In the end a therapist will help, and decide wether or not treatment is necessary.

[Marcelle]

Hi Amanda.

IMHO from what you have said in your post you sound more TG/CD than TG/TS. I cannot speak for our TS folks here but from what I have read and insight gleaned through my own therapy, being TS brings an unbridled need to correct one's birth sex in order to function in the world (e.g., I was suppose to be a girl not a boy). From your post I get you are happy as a guy but from time to time would like to be a girl. When I first started therapy my biggest confusion was that I wanted to be a girl (in my mind). I explored this with my therapist and she asked me one day to describe my feelings when I see a woman out and about. So I recalled one time when I was waiting in line at a gas station and there was a 30-something woman finishing up pumping her gas. She was dressed in a skirt, leggings, boots and jacket. She finished up and walked over to pay. My heart skipped a beat when I saw her and not in that "guy checking out a girl kind of way". My therapist asked me point blank did I want to be that girl. More specifically, did I feel as though I could not function in this simple task (pumping gas) unless the world viewed me and I viewed myself as a woman? I had to think and then said "no". So the next line of questioning went to why I was so enamoured with this woman? After a game of twenty questions we discovered while I did not want to be a woman (e.g., change my sex) I wanted the ability to dress as she did, express myself as she did - essentially be that pretty woman at the gas pumps. In essence, I wanted to be a boy who dressed as a girl (TG/CD) not a boy who wanted to be a girl (TG/TS).

As I have explored Isha in public, I have found inner peace with this desire to express this side of me. So now from time to time I get to be the pretty girl (okay that may be a stretch ) at the gas pumps and for me that feels right.

Hugs

Isha

[LaurenS]

In essence, I wanted to be a boy who dressed as a girl (TG/CD) not a boy who wanted to be a girl (TG/TS).

Isha, I think you just saved me thousands in therapy fees!

Seriously, though, do you have thoughts of modifying your body, even just slightly, to appear more femme? Although I want to go back and forth, I wish my hips and waist weren't so box like.