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Thread: Wishing to be a girl, is it CD or TS related?

  1. #26
    ghost Anne2345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    This is not a typical profile for a CD.
    I am not a crossdresser. I do not profess to know with any degree of reasonable certainty what crossdresser traits are typical versus atypical. And to be honest, I do not really understand what crossdressers get out of crossdressing. But more power to 'em for having the courage to do their thing.

    I can't tell her who she really is anymore than you can, nor anyone else.
    Yep. Absolutely correct. I'm just trying to better understand Amanda and what she has written within the context of her question, is all. :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    Meaning feminine traits that may be taken as gay markers.
    Um . . . okay. I guess. But still, what does this have to do with whether you are a crossdresser or a "non-op" transsexual? Which, btw, I am still unsure what a non-op TS is.

    I do have transient TS feelings, but they go away. Not enough to act on.
    What are "transient TS feelings?" Issues of denial and suppression notwithstanding, one is either TS, or one is not. I know a lot of transsexuals. I know some crossdressers. And I have met plenty of folk that fall somewhere in between the gender binary. But I do not think I have met anyone with "transient TS feelings." How does that work and what exactly does it mean?

  2. #27
    Member devida's Avatar
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    What is a non op TS? Really? Okay. A non op ts is someone who does not consider themselves to be the gender they were assigned at birth but does not want to use surgical interventions and often does not even want to use hormones to change their bodies to reflect that they are not the gender assigned at birth. I am a non op transexual to the extent I do not identify as male but also do not want to transition to female because although I would kind of like secondary female characteristics like tits I do not want top surgery. Also I am probably too old for hormones to do much and I am unsure of the actual level of medical knowledge. I don't trust doctors. I prefer to define myself as transgender because I do not want to pass as a woman and do not want to become a woman, for pretty much the same reasons I do not like being a man. I just can't stand the binaries. But I am also happy to describe myself as a non op transsexual, or at least somewhere along that spectrum. Many non op no ho transexuals do live as women. So, really I suppose I am a non op no hormone transgender transexual. I am not really a cross dresser because I dress according to my gender, which happens to be somewhere between the binaries of male and female.

    And also please, can we stop with the absolute statements like either you are transexual or you are not? This is just not true. It is just more of the tired old binary conditioning that just makes my head hurt.

    I understand how difficult it is for all the cross dressers and mtf full transexuals who are transitioning from one sex to another to understand this, but please just try. I am far from alone and there are an awful lot of young people like me. I just happen to be kind of rare among the older population of folks who are on this forum.
    Last edited by devida; 07-18-2014 at 08:19 PM.

  3. #28
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    I feel like I've been cheated since I am not one of them.
    Amanda,

    CDers do not feel cheated that they were born male. Feeling that you have been cheated out of life as a girl is a damn good indication that you are experiencing gender dysphoria, and identify as female or something other than male.

    Last summer I felt exactly the same way you did. I wanted to die and be reincarnated as a woman in my next life (and all lifetimes there afterwards too). Fast forward to summer 2014, and I have been living close to full time - basically I live as a woman all situations except AA because I am not out to everyone yet. I will be coming out at AA soon and start attending AA as my authentic self. I have been seeing a gender therapist since February, and hopefully will be starting hormones on August 1.

    I second everything Paula said.

    I would recommend seeing a gender therapist - I have been seeing one for the past five months and she helped me tremendously.

    Also you may or may not be TS. You might also be genderqueer, bigender, gender fluid, androgynous, or something else. If you need to transition, you do not need to do all surgeries or even hormones to transition - although most TSes go on hormones.

    Please feel free to send me a PM if you wish to talk
    Last edited by Michelle789; 07-18-2014 at 09:01 PM.
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  4. #29
    Dr. Girlfriend AmandaM's Avatar
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    Transient TS feelings means that sometimes I feel like I'm probably TS and should pursue it. Then the feelings dissipate, and I feel I'm just a CDer. These feelings get stronger and weaker over time with no "trigger" that I can define. They ebb and flow, neither feeling wins completely. For gay markers, let's make it simple, if a guy swishes a bit, or is a little limp-wristed, the first thought of others is not that he is a CDer.

  5. #30
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    Amanda, I was also experiencing transient TS feelings this time last year like you describe, and that lasted until I finally admitted that I was TS two months ago. I still have some inner dialog and fight myself, but no where near as much as I used to.
    I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.

  6. #31
    A California Girl Rachel Morley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy Long Legs View Post
    Don't you feel like one of those cute girls when your dressed?
    That's what I was thinking. I always feel more attractive and cute when dressed (notice I said "feel" not "look). Ok so I'm not one of those cute young GGs that seem to be everywhere but I feel that I get a little closer to what it might be like to be one. If I could choose and have my time over again I would kill to be a young, pretty, sexy bodied, and smart 21 year old female!

    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    Some gays "hover" around me cause they sense something, I have to deflect them. I have some feminine qualities or behaviors that make them think I'm gay or bi, I guess.
    I understand this quote. I have had plenty of times when I was younger where I have been approached while in boy mode in a bar and a guy (presumably gay) was obviously coming on to to me. I put it down to the way I was dressed (a little bit girly) and my mannerisms and persona (a little bit girly) .... that said, I get that gay guys like men, sometimes really masculine men, so I dunno what it really means
    Last edited by Rachel Morley; 07-18-2014 at 09:30 PM.
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  7. #32
    Senior Member KellyJameson's Avatar
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    You want to be a cute girl but not an ugly girl because you want to be wanted. Who you want to be wanted by and for what reasons will tell you why you want to be a cute girl.

    Answer what you want from other people by being a cute girl and you answer your question
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  8. #33
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    Only you can know for sure whether you are merely a CD or you are destined to transition into a woman. But it is quite possible for a CDer to wonder what life would be like being born with another X chromosome. Cross-dressers are human they have imaginations by definition they have a desire to wear women's clothing. Usually they want to look good wearing that clothing and not look like a man in a dress. So they often see themselves looking as feminine as the imagination will take them. Desiring to wear women's clothing and wanting to look good do it can often bring up the thoughts that life wearing women's clothing would somehow being easier if one was born a woman. You get to dress in t-shirt a jeans like a man when you want to without having people think you are strange when you want to be all pretty an wear a dress and make-up. So you see it is quite possible to think about such things and still be a CD especially when the desire to cross-dress hits hard. I should know I have done it many times.

    If I have learned one thing hanging out on the internet with Cross-dressers and Transsexuals is that if you want to change you sex you have to do so unconditionally. You can't go into only if you get to be cute or pretty, you can't go into it only if you get to feel wonderful and happy all the time. One should only go into it to just feel right with themselves despite what good or bad still lay ahead.
    Last edited by ReluctantDebutant; 07-18-2014 at 10:18 PM.

  9. #34
    Aspiring Member LelaK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devida View Post
    [] A non op ts is someone who does not consider themselves to be the gender they were assigned at birth but does not want to use surgical interventions and often does not even want to use hormones to change their bodies to reflect that they are not the gender assigned at birth. I am a non op transexual to the extent I do not identify as male but also do not want to transition to female because although I would kind of like secondary female characteristics like tits I do not want top surgery. Also I am probably too old for hormones to do much and I am unsure of the actual level of medical knowledge. I don't trust doctors. I prefer to define myself as transgender because I do not want to pass as a woman and do not want to become a woman, for pretty much the same reasons I do not like being a man. I just can't stand the binaries. But I am also happy to describe myself as a non op transsexual, or at least somewhere along that spectrum. Many non op no ho transexuals do live as women. So, really I suppose I am a non op no hormone transgender transexual. I am not really a cross dresser because I dress according to my gender, which happens to be somewhere between the binaries of male and female.
    Same here, except I still crossdress quite a bit. I think I’ll still call myself a CD regardless of how I dress in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle789 View Post
    Amanda,
    CDers do not feel cheated that they were born male. Feeling that you have been cheated out of life as a girl is a damn good indication that you are experiencing gender dysphoria, and identify as female or something other than male.
    I feel more disappointed than cheated. I figure there may be a good reason I was born male, but I’ll likely remain disappointed as male at least as long as I don’t know what the good reason was. I’ll keep calling myself a CD though. When I joined this site, I posted to the transsexuals section, but they said if I don’t plan to transition I should use the CD section.
    T-shirt says: "Hi, I Crossdress!"

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Campbell View Post
    not really. TS is not the desire to be the other sex, it is knowing that you already are but your body doesn't match.
    Quick search of the definition comes up with this: "a person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex."

    I'm going to sidestep this for a moment and start with a different subject.

    All of these terms we're talking about are normally rooted in psychology (specifically a book called DSM), and as they are applied in many cases are in terms of treatment.

    When I say it sounds more TS based, it's based on the fact that the drive to be female can sound like a version of feeling that they should have BEEN born that way. According to some metrics I have TS tendencies as well even though I identify as a CD. Again since they are defined based on treatments of mental disorders, the true question is how am I going to achieve a happy and productive life. Since TS procedures are normally pretty intense, it is treated as a situation that requires "persistent discomfort", and/or "clinically significant distress or impairment in work or social life." While I might have passing versions of those I don't really qualify, nor do I think full gender reassignment is right for me clearly.

    The lack of these symptoms means it doesn't meet the clinical definition for diagnosis, or treatment, but doesn't mean the emotions can be related to the same general causes. Meaning that when I say the comments FEEL based more on one definition, I am by no means suggesting that the individual qualifies under the guidelines for treatment of said "disorder". The only way to know that is for the person to really soul search a lot more and figure out if the current clinical definitions and diagnosis (which aren't perfect either), fit them or not. In the end a therapist will help, and decide wether or not treatment is necessary.
    Last edited by Badwolf; 07-18-2014 at 10:13 PM.

  11. #36
    ghost Anne2345's Avatar
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    Devida, on the one hand, you state that you are a non-op TS, but then you go on to write that you "dress according to my gender, which happens to be somewhere between the binaries of male and female."

    You can't have it both ways, Devida. If you are a MtF TS, you identify as a woman. You do not fall somewhere in "between the binaries of male and female." By your own words you defeat your own argument, and tank your credibility. Do you even understand what being a transsexual really means? Judging by your response, I would say you haven't a clue.

    This is why words are so important. Because they have very specific meanings. And meaning can make all the difference in the world and then some.

    As for the statements I choose to write here on this forum, whether such statements are in the form of an absolute or not, who are you to ask me not to do so? How about this instead - why don't you first take the time to actually substantively learn and educate yourself about the actual issues here, instead of writing such completely irrelevant, meaningless, and unhelpful stuff as "I am unsure of the actual level of medical knowledge. I don't trust doctors."

    I mean really, you would make my head hurt if I cared anything about your opinion whatsoever. Thankfully, I do not. Except in as much as it may be dangerous to those such as AmandaM.

    All I have done is ask her some questions relevant to the OP in an effort to better understand her position and what she thinks.

    In fact, she is doing quite a good job of further explaining herself and making her feelings more clear. All of these things are necessary.

    If Amanda thinks these questions are hard, she is in for quite a rude awakening and in for a seriously hard time if she pursues a path into TS Land. But based upon what I've seen so far, she has handled herself with grace, dignity, and responsiveness. She has not gotten defensive, she has not run away, and she has stuck with this thread.

    And good for her. I respect that.

    Oh, and if your head still hurts, you may want to see a doctor about that. Oh, my bad, I forgot - you don't trust doctors . . . . .
    Last edited by Katey888; 07-19-2014 at 06:12 AM. Reason: Keeping things objective and non-personal

  12. #37
    GG / SO to a CD MatildaJ.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    I have these thoughts everyday. It's tiring and frustrating. Maybe it's cause I have kids at home and can rarely dress? Maybe I need more girl time.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaM View Post
    maybe these jealousy feelings dog me everyday cause I can't dress except every couple of months.
    That sounds likely. Could you try to build in more time to dress, late at night with a locked door to keep out the kids, or out of the house at a support group of some kind?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne2345 View Post
    I am not a crossdresser. I do not profess to know with any degree of reasonable certainty what crossdresser traits are typical versus atypical. And to be honest, I do not really understand what crossdressers get out of crossdressing. But more power to 'em for having the courage to do their thing.
    I was a crossdresser. I understand what one can get out of it. For that matter, one of my girlfriends is a former CD. She started at 5, and it was also never sexual with her. (It was for me, for a while, until suddenly it was not.) And growing up, I was read as "different" by a number of gay men throughout my life, although I never had sex with any of them - it just didn't seem right for me somehow.

    As for "transient TS feelings", gender dysphoria can be episodic in nature, coming and going until it finally settles in with a vengeance. (Or doesn't.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anne2345 View Post
    Which, btw, I am still unsure what a non-op TS is.
    Many of us are either unable to afford or obtain SRS, or just don't feel dysphoric enough about our genitals to really merit it, since it's such a serious procedure. Having a vagina built by a plastic surgeon doesn't make us any more of a woman than having a natural born penis made us men. That said, I sure as hell want one, as I'm quite dysphoric about my reproductive organs. One can choose to not have any operations, but take HRT, and still transition and live as a woman. For that matter, many transmen NEVER get bottom surgery.

    I mean no disrespect to you with my replies btw, Anne. I have talked with many other trans women who really don't get crossdressers either. (One of my girlfriends NEVER CDed - ever, but she's trans. She's on HRT, and getting therapy, transitioning, and marking time waiting for SRS.) The desire to CD really is pretty weird and hard to understand unless you have it. I guess I just like CDs because I used to be one. I have great respect and sympathy for what they go through in their lives, both those who will NEVER need to transition, and those who some day will. Having a part of yourself that you can't express is agony, and in my opinion, in many cases differs only in degree from the GD we suffer from.
    Last edited by PaulaQ; 07-19-2014 at 02:31 AM.

  14. #39
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Be cool, members..

    Please try to keep this on the OPs quite straightforward premise and responses and do not get too personal or tangential in your perspectives.

    I would remind everyone here that we are each entitled to our own opinion and have a limited right to voice those opinions without unduly attacking anyone else... so keep it reasonable and on topic, please...

    Katey
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  15. #40
    Aspiring Member LaurenS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyJameson View Post
    Answer what you want from other people by being a cute girl and you answer your question
    For me, that answer is 42.

  16. #41
    ghost Anne2345's Avatar
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    Paula, I understand what a non-op TS within the context of someone who is limited by circumstance. Such a thing is clear on its face.

    But that is not the context that AmandaM was using the term. And that certainly wasn't the context within the self-description offered by devida.

    In this, with claim of limiting circumstances, Amanda instead stated that she may be a non-op transsexual. Within this very same context, however, she also wrote that she has no desire to be her within a woman's body.

    It is within this context, within the manner in which Amanda has used the term non-op, that is unknown to me and that I do not understand. As I wrote before, words and meaning are very important. I seemingly have proved my own case by having insufficiently and inarticulately expressed my own meaning. I apologize for the previous confusion.

    As for GD, I know all too well the pain it can inflict and the chaos it can cause. I would not be in the process of completely blowing up my life and my family but for the ravages of GD.

    Still, Paula, you state you used to be a crossdresser, but that you are now a transsexual. And you seem to be relying on this premise for your insight and intuition into the mind of the MtF crossdresser (who, by definition, is a man). Am I correct about this?

    in my case, I used to "crossdress," as well. But my "dressing" was more of an outlet for any temporary upsurges that assaulted my carefully crafted walls of denial and suppression. Such things were typically followed by massive attacks of guilt and shame, so I only "dressed" when I needed to. The thing is, though, that I "dressed" for very different reasons than the typical MtF CDer. Don't get me wrong, though - I had thoroughly convinced myself that I was a MtF crossdresser, and I did everything I could to maintain my own personal façade. But it wasn't sustainable. Of course, as you know, such things never are.

    Regardless, a MtF CDer is a man, period. Even in the throes of denial and suppression I was not a man. Certainly not a man as those men around me were. Instead, my life was built entirely upon falsehoods, acting out my expected part, fear, self-loathing, and massive overcompensation. Even so, I was never, ever comfortable with the role of playing a man upon the stage of the expectation set forth by society. Having to "be" a man sucked. And it sucked because it wasn't right for me, and it wasn't who I was.

    So given this background, I cannot say - even though I once engaged in the act of what I had convinced myself to be MtF crossdressing - that I understand the mind of the MtF crossdresser. And really, now that I am well into the process of transition, I understand it even less, because I know now that I never really even understood it in the first place.

    Also, neither my questions nor my comments have anything to do with who has, wants, or needs vaginas or penises or whatever else. That is an entirely separate issue, and unless Amanda states otherwise, not relevant to the OP.

    Sorry to be speaking about you like this as if you weren't here, Amanda. Funny how such things can happen around here, though, isn't it? ;-)

    @Katey888 - lol. Fair enough. :-)

  17. #42
    Dr. Girlfriend AmandaM's Avatar
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    No worries. Yes, I do feel like I should have been born a woman. Yes, I am extremely jealous of all the cute girls and feel robbed. Yes, my CDing also has a sexual gratification component (maybe I'm a shem*le, ha). But when I think of what TS's go through, I balk. For many reasons I guess. Plain and simple, when I see the hell TS's go through to get their body correct, the loss of family, income, sometimes ostracized by society, I just don't want to put myself through that. Now if you made a magic island, ok SanFran, lol, where I could have gone at 18, gave it a shot without judgement or loss, maybe I'd be a woman now? Possibly. But being married, children at home, house, career, etc. I won't kill that just because I want to "explore my feelings". I am sure these feelings are familiar to some of you.

  18. #43
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    A need for expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by devida View Post
    ...I am a non op transexual to the extent I do not identify as male but also do not want to transition to female because although I would kind of like secondary female characteristics like tits I do not want top surgery.

    ...

    And also please, can we stop with the absolute statements like either you are transexual or you are not? This is just not true. It is just more of the tired old binary conditioning that just makes my head hurt.
    I totally understand what you're saying, and I think you described it very well!

    You are referring to "transsexual" as being "beyond" the gender identity assigned at birth, based on genitals. So in effect, you live your current life having transitioned from the strictly male that I am guessing you were raised as.

    I also think that a lot of people forget there are multiple things to "transition" to. A person born with male genitals and raised as a boy, if she identifies as a woman, can fully transition (to the utmost of medical possibility) with HRT, FFS & BA (if needed), and SRS. This woman would hate all her male sexual characteristics, obviously. And a person born with male genitals and raised as a boy can also transition, as you say, to non-binary gender ... neither fully male nor female.

    I think a lot of members here consider "transsexual" to mean a someone who transitions from the male sex to the female sex and they believe the transitioners to be firmly in the binary female camp. I believe this is how traditionally the community has defined it, before there was any understanding of gender-nonconformity.

    So we really do need two different words, in order to dispense with disagreements over terminology: one for a person who transcends/transitions from the sex they were assigned at birth to the opposite sex in the gender-binary (what most people define as transsexual), and one who transcends/transitions to non-conforming gender (while still retaining some of all of their male sexual characteristics), which is how you describe yourself: outside of the gender-binary, neither male nor female. I want to note that both these persons can be considered feminine, if this is how they see themselves. And I dare say that both would also feel cheated, disappointed, or any other such feeling, in not having the world see them as who they feel they are internally, which in both cases are different than the gender they were assigned at birth.

    You used the term, "transgender transsexual". I can't think of any better, unless maybe "non-conforming TS" (NCTS) might do? The term "transgender" in itself tends to confuse because it is a huge mishmash that both some CDs and TSs use to define themselves, although increasingly I wonder if more people like you are appropriating the term for themselves.

    We have way too many different types of people in this community to try to fit them all into two or three general labels. lol
    Reine

  19. #44
    ghost Anne2345's Avatar
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    Reine, a term I have seen used (and I know we've all seen it around here before and out in the real world) to describe those who fall somewhere in-between the binary and do not identify specifically as male or female (either in whole or in part) is "gender fluid." Fwiw, I really like this term. I think it captures many of the in-betweeners, and is adequately descriptive and easily understood on its face. Plus, I think it just sounds pretty damn cool. ;-)

  20. #45
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    I like "gender fluid" too. It's the simplest. "Bigender" isn't bad either. My SO identified as "dualgender" for awhile, but I haven't heard her refer to herself that way lately. The WPATH uses "gender-nonconforming". For awhile, a lot of people on this site referred to themselves as "in-betweenies" (which I didn't particularly like). And of course there is the standby, "transgender".

    But even all of these terms have gradients. This is why, I think, that someone on the feminine end of "gender fluid" might like to think of themselves as transsexual ... which is redefining the term from its traditional meaning, (I believe), of someone who has a physical transition from one sex to another.

    But, we do live in a community that has grown in understanding by leaps and bounds since the 1950s-60s, so it is not surprising that people want to redefine the terms. I personally think it much better to identify general categories of being, and assign different terms to each one in order to end the confusion. Maybe a numbering system or something.

    Edit - I think an issue is the reason that some feminine-identified folks don't actually transition: some people want to keep it private from their wives and try to live their lives as a balancing act, or they don't want to lose their families or jobs. Other people can't for medical reasons. Other people can't afford it. When we take these people into account, then value judgments must be made: are their reasons legit, or are they fooling themselves?

    So I think a great marker for being transsexual is actually living as a female with no possibility to revert to male mode (and feeling downright noxious when having to present as male), whether or not there is a physical transition (SRS).

    But even this would be debated. It's a complex community. We are trying to fit gradients into absolutes.

    Edit 2: I keep coming back to this. lol. I heard a show the other day on NPR, about transsexualism. They referred to it as "transgender". One of the guests was Helen Boyd's wife, Betty (I forget her real name). Betty made the point that the community wants to distance itself from public curiosity (during interviews, etc) about their genitals. Betty considers this private and I took it, not the marker for being a woman. Betty further said that her hope is for society to get to the point of no longer needing any TS go "stealth", which she defined as the old-fashioned term for being seen as a woman. Betty felt that we should all get to the point where it doesn't matter what chromosomes or sexual characteristics one has, all that matters is how we define ourselves. Like ignoring someone's race when it comes to making judgment values about a person.

    I'm guessing there will be some people who agree with her, while others will not.

    And so it goes.
    Last edited by ReineD; 07-19-2014 at 03:46 PM.
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    @Anne2345 - (Your transition is obviously going well, you look fanstastic, hon! ) - I think where you and I (and many others, I'm in the minority with my point of view, I realize that) differ is that you assert that fundamentally, what CDs experience is profoundly different than what transsexuals such as you and I experience. I assert, on the other hand, that our conditions are, at the very least, related, and that in general, they suffer from gender dysphoria that differs from ours only in severity.

    If there is a profound difference between crossdressers who are solidly male identified, and transsexuals, who also crossdress, but haven't come out to themselves yet, then it should be something that is detectable, right? But as far as I've been able to determine, even experts can't really tell one from the other until we come out, and begin transition, or at least seriously contemplate it. (Other factors might prevent a candidate for transition from following through.) If you can't distinguish between the two populations until after the fact, how can you be sure there's really any difference at all?

    I certainly understand that there are male identified CDs who'll never transition, and for whom transition would be wholly inappropriate, and even harmful. However, there are crossdressing trans women who really probably do need to transition, and yet many here would convince them "nah - you're just a CD." I think this can certainly be equally harmful, and in fact, it was my own personal experience on this very forum.

    I simply think it's fairly useless to try to tell who's who - the state of the art simply doesn't give us sufficient insight into the psychology or neurology of our conditions to allow us to discern one from the other. And perhaps there will never BE a way to tell for sure - it's possible that the causes are identical for some of us, and that for some, GD progressively worsens, and for others it does not, and as such they remain "just a CD". It is hard to predict the future outcome of a progressive condition, in general.

    All that said, I won't be surprised either if there are fundamental neurological differences between a CD and a TS, and that we simply don't have the means and knowledge to study them yet.

    In any case, even if we share nothing in common biologically, we all share the same fundamental problem, both CDs, TSs, and all TG folks - a society that has refused to let us be our authentic selves, that judges us harshly, and penalizes us for being different.

  22. #47
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    @Paula - I asked my therapist about this subject once, and she said that CDers have gender dysphoria that is less progressed than that of a TS. CDers, according to her, are female identified, but they like their maleness. They don't hate their penis, they like their beards, and like having sex with their wives, and like other aspects of their male lives. Perhaps there is a spectrum of CDers.

    1. Male identified with moderate to strong female persona or interest in women's clothes or women's activities, but no female identity (do not transition) - these are likely the ones whom it truly is all about the clothes - I suspect this group would benefit if men were allowed to wear dresses, heels, or makeup, and not be ridiculed
    2. Primary male identity, with secondary female identity (most likely should not transition, a dual life may be necessary some day)
    3. Primary female identity, with secondary male identity (may or may not need to transition someday, a dual life may work out too)
    4. Female identified with strong male persona or interest in men's clothes or men's activities, but no male identity (should transition, probably similar to late transitioners)

    With that said, I think that TSes also fall along a spectrum that explains why some of us are better at "manning up" than others, although my therapist and I both don't believe in Blanchard, I think there are degrees of manning up as well. In all cases, whether or not you were able to "man up" has nothing to do with whether or not you had a history of CDing, and nothing to do with your sexual orientation. TSes are female identified, and should transition, but personality and upbringing might affect the age of transition, as well as to what male activities the TS may partake in before transitioning.

    I personally find that many TSes do not fit neatly into Blanchard's two types - I for sure didn't, and most of the ones I know don't fit neatly into his two types. The only real truth to Blanchard that I can see is there are degrees to which a TS can put on a male persona before transitioning, and this affects the age of transition (not 100% of the time, though).

    @Amanda - I understand your reasons for not wanting to transition - it is true that TSes often go through hell. Honestly, the degree of hell a TS goes through varies from person to person. Some lose everything, some lose nothing or little. As for the physical pain, electroloysis and laser hair removal are physically painful and there is no way around this. Well, not entirely true, you don't have to do hair removal if you are willing to shave every day and be ready to cover up your 5:00 shadow.

    It is okay to feel jealous of cute girls. This is not a litmus test that separates CDers and TSes. TSes and GG's both are often envious of prettier women - everyone wants to be the pretty girl. And yes young TSes can transition into really attractive girls. Even middle aged ones can still be attractive for their age.

    My therapist also said that lots of CDers won't leave the house en femme because of transphobia, and suspects that some TSes won't transition because of transphobia and risking losing everything.

    Having a sexual gratification component does not have anything to do with whether or not you are TS or a CDer. My therapist also said that most CDers and most TSes do have a sexual gratification component - autoeroticism - and that what we fantasize about in private reflects at least a part of who we truly are. Both CDers and TSes engage in autoeroticism. Welcome to the club!!!

    @Sometimes Miss - I totally agree with your point on pretty girls having it tough. First, everyone has problems, no matter who you are. Pretty girls are often ostracized by lesser attractive women. Pretty girls also either get too much male attention, or not enough male attention - sometimes men can be too shy to ask a pretty girl out and they might assume they already have boyfriends. So pretty girls can actually be lonely.
    Last edited by Michelle789; 07-19-2014 at 05:18 PM.
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  23. #48
    Member devida's Avatar
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    Wow, Anne, I didn't mean to push your buttons! I really am sorry that my opinions about the way I identify myself made you so upset.

    But here's my view: nobody gets to define me or anybody else in tems of my gender identity, my sexuality, or my sex. I own the words that define me. You don't, no matter how much you may feel that you should, no matter how much you think that my defining myself in a way you do not approve may hurt others. They also own their own words.

    Was it absolutely necessary for you to make the ad hominem attacks you did in your post? Did I attack you? If I did, even if you thought I did, I really do apologize. It was not my intention to distress you, just, perhaps inexpertly given the vehemence of your response, to make the point that I, and a fair number of other people, do consider ourselves to be transexual, just not in the way you define it. Again I apologize for belaboring the point but I personally reject the idea that there are only two genders and that being transexual means that you are moving from one gender to another. But I respect and honor your belief that there are only men and women and gender fluid people in between. You can absolutely have that view. I just request that you allow that other people have the right not to define themselves within the terms that you dictate.

    And if you can't do that, well I guess I will just have to wistfully accept that you can't and allow you to have that view. I would, as gently as I can given the intensity of your feelings, request that you don't assume that I am ignorant of the issues of gender identity that this topic references. Like most of us, I am sure, I spend a great deal of time studying, analyzing, and living these issues and because I know these issues are based in very personal and subjective experiences I would not for a minute think that you or anyone else here somehow lacks the qualifications to discuss this.

  24. #49
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    Hi Amanda, I am just a guy that loves to dress and look as feminine as I can ,
    But I wouldn't want to change because I have the best of both worlds.
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

    I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !

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  25. #50
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    I don't believe there's a clear-cut border between crossdressers and transsexuals. I think there's a continuum ranging from crossdressers who occasionally dress for fetish reasons and are otherwise happy being guys all the way to transsexuals who would kill themselves if they could not transition.

    Furthermore, I think we can move around on the continuum as we age and our life circumstances change. As I age, I find I'm moving closer to the "transsexual" end of the spectrum: I no longer get turned on by women's clothing and I also wish to present as female more often and in front of more people. You just have to accept yourself for who you are, accept that your feelings may change over time, and see where your adventure leads you.

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