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Thread: How can we say it's not a fetish

  1. #51
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2B Natasha View Post
    But we as a community wrote about it. Then turn around and say it's not a fetish. Could've fooled me.
    I suspect this is because people aren't keeping up with the redefinition of the term "fetish" among therapists. For most of our lives for many of us, it meant something depraved, something to be ashamed of because it wasn't "normal". It's in the DSM as a paraphilia, which is something to be cured. There also seems to be a very narrow definition of what it means to have a fetish. I suspect a lot of people here think that it necessarily means dressing or wearing a certain thing to have solo sex each time.

    Actually, a fetish is increasingly being thought of as a natural and healthy alternative sexual interest, part of the many sexual interests that people have. We've discovered that not everyone is vanilla, in fact many people aren't, and it's OK ... as long as it hasn't got to the point where it has a negative impact on the person's life, for example if relationships are ruined because of it, or the person increasingly isolates himself in order to engage in the behavior, or it gets to the point where it is difficult to concentrate on work. There are gradients to everything. The very best way to have a fetish in any relationship, IMO, is if both people are into it.

    Also, a fetish needn't mean engaging in it to have an orgasm each time. But it IS an alternative interest if it brings a thrill or a euphoric feeling … that little shiver down your spine. Sex is in the mind … like new lovers who reach highs just thinking about each other in the very beginning of their relationships, without necessarily having solo sex or sex together, but who definitely feel that tingle. It IS sexual even if does not culminate in a sexual act. Also we all have different libidos especially as we age, and the natural highs a CDer may feel when dressing may only culminate in an orgasm occasionally. This does not make it any less an alternative sexual interest. But, a fetish IS something people like to talk about, think about, wax poetic about.


    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara Jo View Post
    Also, personally I have had females tell me that they prefer one article of underwear/stockings over another simply because of the way it feels and makes them feel more feminine....and they are constantly reminded of what they are wearing under their outer clothes.
    All the lace and silky feminine underwear that is not meant to be seen is for the benefit of the wearer. GGs enjoy wearing feminine undies also. All the feminine undies/lingerie that we wear are meant for GG who love them. Why shouldn't we?
    They're actually meant for GGs to impress the males in their lives. Women know that men are visual and they want to be attractive for them. And we are not constantly reminded of what we are wearing under our clothes when we have them on.

    If we do talk about our lingerie, it is because someone mentions having found an underwire bra brand that doesn't pierce the underside of her boobs, or a brand of pantyhose that won't run the first time they're worn. It does make sense to talk about practical matters in this forum, if CDers want to know which brand is likely to keep the boys in or won't ride up in the back, etc. But I don't think these are the type of posts the OP meant at all.

    Also, GGs do enjoy wearing the sexy panties but for entirely different reasons than do the crossdressers who talk about them in a certain way. And as mentioned above, there is nothing wrong with having an alternative sexual interest, so there is no need for the argument, "If the GGs wear them, it must mean they feel like I do, and so why can't I wear them as well".
    Reine

  2. #52
    Aspiring Member NancyJ's Avatar
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    Okay. I have a fetish for feminine underthings. So what? Yes, I realize that these items have more meaning to me than they do for GG's (btw thanks Reine for your comments--helpful as always). However, I don't have female body parts or outward appearance to help me feel feminine, the underwear that I love to wear is symbolic of my femininity and my 24/7 underdressing is not erotized, but essential to being "Nancy" on the inside when I must present to the world as a guy in day-to-day life. I do not think that having a "fetish" for the underwear in any way diminishes the gender dysphoria that I also feel. I know that I feel differently about all female clothing than guys who do not have gender "issues," and I also feel differently about female clothing than virtually all women. I have fetishes for certain female clothing items, and I like to dress as a woman, and my dressing is far more than sexual; in fact often not sexual at all. Nancy

  3. #53
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    Fascinating thread!

    Is Tina a fetish dresser? No. Maybe starting at age 55 is part of it, but I feel the main part of it is that she is too darn busy trying to figure out her life to be worried about the sexual part of things. Her male side takes care of that very nicely, and that's the way my SO likes it.

    Is dressing a sensual situation? Sure. But so is dressing in a well-fitting tux!

  4. #54
    Silver Member giuseppina's Avatar
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    I agree with your OP, Natasha. That said, I haven't read the rest of the posts.

    While there is a small sexual component to my dressing, I doubt it qualifies as a fetish. I lose interest rapidly when people post TMI about what they are wearing.

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    Reine, thanks for redefining the definition and you are spot on although it's still barely just began .. I wholly agree but I differ in the sexual aspect and here is to why... True with the female genetic ( being a GG) that the sexual attraction is for the male benefit ..No argument there and that is what makes SOME OF us males turn to x dress ,that drive... I have zero doubt on that...But the question is and always has been why? Why do we continue to x dress during a relationship with our genetic female partners?

    Good question huh?

    Why do some people breath from their nose while others from their mouth? Sex is a strong factor in a males DNA so strong in fact that the mans man would most likely be a fetish dresser ,you know that guy that every macho man looks up to..Yeah sure ...Lucy pat yourself on the back and lets roll onto the next thread..But putting myself a side ,there has been studies done on this very subject although rare,,Why? Because your not going to get many " manly men" to out themselves to be studied.. I'll leave this alone for now as food for thought with a tag line..

    What I just wrote was in no way placing any type of x dressing above any other type of x dressing and what I have wrote was not directed at any type of xdressing and was in no way placing any type of x dressing above any other..
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimini1 View Post
    But how many of us who have moved to a more "cosmetic" phase can truly say it's no longer a turn on in the least, not even a teentsy weenie bit?
    C'mon be honest.
    Fetish has a few definitions. If the desire to dress is based on sexualized feelings, it is a fetish. The merriam webster definition goes as far as saying it is "necessary for sexual gratification". Being turned on by it as long as it isn't the motivation does not make it a fetish.

    There is another definition that makes it more likely we all fit into. "An object of irrational reverence or obsessive devotion", but this one removes sexual feelings from the definition. Everyone has this in one way or another.

    Just read a post earlier today where someone said they got turned on by both women and hot rods.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fetish

    ReineD's definition, while not recognized by most official sources, is a common movement in society. BDSM and the Japanese leading the charge. The use seems to suggest more like sexual play that deviates from the norm.
    Last edited by Badwolf; 07-25-2014 at 10:43 PM.

  7. #57
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Or as Freud once said "Sometimes a fetish is a small object you think has special powers" well he would have said that if he was still alive
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  8. #58
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    This is one of the best, rather short articles I've read on fetishes, from a therapist in California. The message here is to accept and work with it rather than try to cure or squelch it, and to get over the guilt. I dare say that most therapists (if consulted), will follow this approach, providing the person who has the fetish does NOT feel that his life has been negatively impacted with it (see above for the ways that it can go overboard for some people). So basically, if the person has a happy and productive life, he should just relax and enjoy his alternative sexual attractions!

    http://www.therapywithcare.com/Article_Fetish.html

    There is even a new, 2013 textbook for therapists on Counseling LBGT Clients, that has a chapter devoted to crossdressers including those who dress for fetish. The message there is the same … help your clients come to terms with who they are and get over the guilt.
    Reine

  9. #59
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Reine, I think the article was pretty good, even with a flaw in the opening. It says he was fixated on the contestant's shoes, and then that he has a foot fetish. A fetish for feet isn't the same as a fetish for high heels, and the author should have known that. Of course, there could have a fetish for both, but that wasn't said. Anyway, it made me question the authority of the author, but the article after that was generally pretty good.
    Discussions about fetishes, like other topics, go nowhere because there is no agreement on definitions. Yes, some definitions are about fixations and magical powers that don't involve anything sexual, but it seems to me that when we discuss fetishes here it is about the sexual response many crossdressers have to certain items of women's wear. Maybe it's necessary to say "sexual fetish" when we mean just that.
    I remember a thread a few years ago: "What's Your Fetish?" Some responses were "I like pantyhose" or "I like [whatever]. That doesn't fit the definition. Many responses were "I don't have a fetish" which makes me wonder why such a response was necessary at all to the question, except to send a message that they dress because they are girly-girls and not men getting off on objects, an indication that they see it as a bad thing.
    Maybe threads like this should begin with "for the purpose of this discussion, a fetish is defined as ............"

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    I like to think of my experiences as a" sexual stimuli " and the attraction really isn't to the clothing but one might think it started out that way at first..It may have always been a mind stimulation because for me the real attraction was to " femininity" which may or may not be an object ( femininity is best known as a gender but can be related to the objects or qualities of being a female such as high heels ,make-up or clothing)..Maybe some of you have read this and I know it doesn't fit the majority of the trans people here on this site but I find it helpful..http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Fetishism.html
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  11. #61
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    It may have always been a mind stimulation because for me the real attraction was to " femininity" which may or may not be an object ( femininity is best known as a gender but can be related to the objects or qualities of being a female such as high heels ,make-up or clothing)..
    I think an attraction to femininity qualifies. I don't think descriptions of fetishes can possibly include everything but generally it is becoming aroused over anything that is not a sexual partner: objects, specific body parts (like feet), or specific situations (like the thought of specifically being a sexy, attractive woman … as opposed to just wanting an average, feminine version of oneself). But before naysayers respond to this, I am speaking strictly of individuals who do get that tingle, that high, even if it doesn't culminate in sexual gratification every time … meaning that for a 20 year old it may culminate, but not necessarily for a 50 year old.

    Anyway, hopefully people know when the excitement is of a sexual nature or not.

    Nicole, this definition says that foot fetish is defined as a pronounced sexual interest in the feet or footwear.
    Reine

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    How does one distinguish between "fetish," "gender identity," or "something else" for the following:
    1. MtF heterosexual CDs
    2. MtF homosexual CDs
    3. Drag Queens
    4. MtF transgender woman - pre-understanding her gender identity

    That is, I'm asking how does one examine individuals in the above categories, and determine, based on their behavior and feelings whether they are not members of the fourth group I list, MtF transgender women who don't yet understand their gender identity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    How does one distinguish between "fetish," "gender identity," or "something else" for the following:
    1. MtF heterosexual CDs
    2. MtF homosexual CDs
    3. Drag Queens
    4. MtF transgender woman - pre-understanding her gender identity


    Paula ,

    A fetish dresser can also be any of those you listed I just so happen to be a heterosexual and a non professional X-dresser who has no GID..

    You would have to understand that being a fetishist and having gender identity are two different things but it is possible for one person to have either or both..

    Just like some people might call their dressing a" hobby" or an" addiction" because you do enjoy wearing some of the items and we seem to collect them but unlike someone who may have a drug "addiction" ( you do not want to become heroine ).. A fetish is something you sometimes emulate ( some people have extreme fetishisms and do surgical changes) like a person who may have a animal fetish will do in costume.. A "sexual fetish" ( yet different in some ways as other fetishisms ) can sometimes include like the "animal fetish" emulating, like wearing the high heels or admiring shaved thighs with stockings on for sexual arousal or gratification.. This does not include the reason for others who may x-dress..
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucy_Bella View Post
    A fetish dresser can also be any of those you listed I just so happen to be a heterosexual and a non professional X-dresser who has no GID..

    You would have to understand that being a fetishist and having gender identity are two different things but it is possible for one person to have either or both..
    Ok sure, but objectively how can you tell those groups apart? I know several transsexuals who identified as fetish dressers, myself included. What's the litmus test that separates these groups? Every GG on this forum would like to know it to be sure that one day their spouse / SO won't transition.

    That can't be that hard, right?

  15. #65
    Member devida's Avatar
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    So it seems the consensus on this thread is that a fetish is anything that gives you pleasure, mostly a sexual pleasure but maybe any kind of good feeling. I think this pretty much deprives the word of a precise meaning. Somone did mention another, perhaps more useful, definition, that of a fetish as a magical object that facilitates or eases a kind of transformation. If we use that definition fetish applies to each of Paula's four categories, though in somewhat different ways. For straight cds and drag queens the transformation is more performative while for mtf homosexuals and trans women it may be more an expression of core identity. In other words both drag queens and straight cds do not use womens clothes to confirm their gender identity. They are performing rather than identifying. Paula missed me in her categories although I would suppose for non binaries wearing clothes not of our assigned gender would be similar to that of trans women. It would be related to gender identity and related to core feelings of gender identity rather than performative.

    But I do think all of Paula's categories are part of a non normative gender spectrum so maye we are all dancing on the head of a pin.

    So the litmus test would be, Paula, is the use of clothes performative or an assertion of gender identity?

    The gay man wearing women's clothes does kind of puzzle me, but maybe it shouldn't. There is no reason a gay dmab has to identify as male any more than I, a bisexual dmab has to so identify. Wearing women's clothes for a dmab who dislikes identifying as male gender could certainly be an expression of gender identity without suggesting that that person's sexual preference has or is changing. I think we might have a couple of examples of this among our members.

    But all this, because of our conditioning, is difficult. Even for someone like me who has a quite radical view of sexuality and gender it is difficult not to default to the old, tired, and inaccurate ways of looking at the incredible diversity of human beings.
    Last edited by devida; 07-26-2014 at 07:48 PM.

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    @devida - my point exactly

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    Ok sure, but objectively how can you tell those groups apart? I know several transsexuals who identified as fetish dressers, myself included. What's the litmus test that separates these groups? Every GG on this forum would like to know it
    It's fairly simple if you are not trying to paint us all with the same brush.... The "attraction of femininity" or the "desire to be feminine" you pick.. You can have one of the two or you can have them both but they are separate .. Why? Because some x-dressers have a desire, even a little amount to be" feminine" that's G.D. ..While the other is the attraction to "femininity" ( or the fetish aspect of it) while some may even have both or could have had one and grew into the other but that isn't often or is rare as a whole ..Does that help?
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  18. #68
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    Nicole, this definition says that foot fetish is defined as a pronounced sexual interest in the feet or footwear.
    OK, there's a definition that includes both, but there is a difference. So I guess shoe fetish falls under the foot fetish umbrella. Yay, we love umbrellas, don't we? I do agree with you that if you have a sexual fetish, you know it.
    Last edited by NicoleScott; 07-26-2014 at 08:38 PM. Reason: spel

  19. #69
    Senior Member samantha rogers's Avatar
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    It might be mentioned again, as Paula did already, that we are not necessarily talking about a constant here but rather something which can be a moving target. Early on, before recognition of a GID is recognized and accepted, an individual may experience conditions that qualify as fetishistic but may also move beyond that as a true gender identity mismatch becomes apparent.
    Years and years ago I would have considered my own situation as a fetish, but that would have betrayed ignorance, I believe, knowing as I do now that it was and is far deeper and stronger than that.
    There is no longer any connection for me between sexual arousal and clothing but rather just a deep satisfaction in knowing things are closer to what they ought to be. More and more, when I present male, as my situation still requires much to my frustration, it is in this male mode that I feel I am in some kind of costume and playing the same tired old artificial role I should rightly have moved beyond years ago.
    Sigh...
    But, my situation is less relevant I am sure in comparison to those whose Cross-dressing is strictly static.
    I just wanted to reiterate that what is true today, or seemingly apparent, may be different tomorrow.
    Every fear that held me back, when faced, has proven to be hollow.
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    @Samantha Rogers - yep, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

    @Lucy Bella - yes, I can agree that there is a difference between a need for feminine expression, and a need for feminine identity. If there weren't CDs and DQs wouldn't exist, and we'd all just be trans.

    My point is that trying to say there's thing thing called a fetish for feminine expression that appears to be exactly identical to the behavior of many who also have feminine identities, but don't know it yet, is a very questionable proposition. Because you, me, or the best therapist or neurologist on earth can't tell whether or not someone will transition until after the fact.

    It's reassuring to think "no way that could happen to me." And for most of you, that's probably true. But not for all, and no one will no for sure until it's rather late in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    My point is that trying to say there's thing thing called a fetish for feminine expression that appears to be exactly identical to the behavior of many who also have feminine identities, but don't know it yet, is a very questionable proposition. Because you, me, or the best therapist or neurologist on earth can't tell whether or not someone will transition until after the fact
    You are exactly correct Paula .. However that would be extreme and as posted earlier very few are extreme ..Rare in the general population but maybe not so rare on this site, perhaps? Please also keep in mind ( as you suggested ) that some do not recognize or have come to terms with having GID and the sexual aspect of their earlier dressing might not have always been a Fetish ( puberty maybe ?) ..Only you can determine that ...Am I saying I will never transition ? Hell yeah I am saying that..For one I love women more than I adore the image of myself as one( beer goggles on of course).. I love being a male more so than the thought of being a female ,I do not ever see myself living my life as the opposite sex.....Can I say that about anyone else ? Of course not and I will never be foolish enough to try.. We all have our reasons for what we do and some may have multiply reasons because no REASONS are prejudice and everyone is acceptable to be or become a T.F.

    But if you ask me, I believe that just as being gay isn't a choice neither is being a T.S. or T.G.
    I do not!! Claim to be an expert on any topic, when I post a new thread or reply on any thread my imput is strickly that of a crossdresser. Not to offend Gay people , Transexuals or any other life style, I am only commenting on one of my own.

  22. #72
    Junior Member Mia27's Avatar
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    I agree that it is a fetish. Well for me at least. I get such a rush dressing up!! i feel sexier and way more sexually driven!! i love wearing cute panties and matching bras. It just makes sense for whatever reason. And i love to look as feminine as possible!! The sexier i look the sexier i feel. So guess since i get such a rush, it must be a fetish

  23. #73
    Member missVS's Avatar
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    I definetely think it is more of a fetish for me.The stimulation I get from dressing as a woman. As Mia27 wrote I like being sexual when I dress up. Right now I have on beautiful glamour sheers lace top stockings from Victoria'S secret. Vintage lace front panties V.S. Beautiful V.S. gown black with rhinestones in boob area. De blossom beautiful satin heels. Transform forms perfect for 38D. Lots of jewelry. Victoria's secret color drama lipstick in fiery red. smoky eyehadow set from Victoria's secret put on with sephora brush set. All these hot woman things help create what I become. Call it a fetish, alternative life style,crossdresser, transgender etc. It works for me when I transform at the time.
    fetish01.jpg
    Last edited by missVS; 07-27-2014 at 02:29 AM.

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    Our brains say "do it again, we like it, do it again we like it!" Of course it is a fetish. I got horny the first time my mom parted my longish 70's hair down the middle and put it in a ponytail while I was painting the floor in the pantry. And 45 years later it is still a sexual turn-on to look in the mirror after a makeover and see me enhanced and focused as a beautiful she. Every dressing session for me must end in sexual "release". And what's so wrong with that?
    And it is a completely different feeling of release than orgasm with a woman.

    Playing the girl once in awhile is always a turn-on. And maybe 24/7 would be interesting... for awhile, but saying goodbye to my male identity both mentally and....physically...not a turn-on in the least.
    Last edited by ophelia; 07-27-2014 at 08:35 PM.

  25. #75
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    They're actually meant for GGs to impress the males in their lives. Women know that men are visual and they want to be attractive for them. And we are not constantly reminded of what we are wearing under our clothes when we have them on
    Actually,studies have shown that not to be the case.
    Also many older women wear fancy bras and panties who are not even in the dating pool.

    In any event it has been shown that it is actually men who dress for the opposite sex but women dress to impress each other and also wear what they enjoy wearing .
    Let's not loose site of the fact that most GGs like to wear clothes that make them feel feminine also.

    There are also thee main popular colors for bras and panties and woman have given their reasons for liking them.
    1) White.....It makes the feel virginal and pure.
    2) nude.. It make them feel naked .
    20 Black.....It makes them feel sexy/wicked.

    So, yes, most females are conscious of the underwear and wear what they enjoy .

    BTW, you are not reminded what you have on under your dress, etc?
    Try wearing men,s cotton boxers under you dress and tell me that!
    Last edited by Barbara Jo; 07-27-2014 at 09:44 PM.

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