Do they believe how bad you feel ?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Teresa, If I couldn't dress at least once a day I would probably go off the deep end.

[Nadya]

Keeping your needs hidden often drains on your emotions. I'd echo what a lot of people here are saying. My experience is that keeping this a secret has a lot more negative consequences on your emotional state than you think. I know this because after I told my fiancé about it, I felt a huge weight lifted from my shoulders and started feeling happy (I didn't realize I was miserable before). I do think about dressing daily (ex. looking at shoes, outfits, thinking about conversations with CDing friends, etc.) but that doesn't always lead to wanting to dress that day. I think my significant other does somewhat understand that I have struggled with my self-acceptance and other mental issues associated with dressing. She's been great for the emotional support.

[Windsong]

Noooooooooooo I didn't understand how 'bad' you would all feel. Guess I was too busy worrying about how "bad" I felt and not seeing it personally through another's eyes. Looking at it all through your perspectives is humbling to say the least. We are, every single one of us, all beautiful souls deep down inside and always need to remember that.

[Lidea]

Maybe Im going off the road here, but I was just wondering..... and Im specifically talking to the men who knew and still got married, hiding it from their wives (those who developed or realised it afterwards... I am sorry to say, but I have no understanding of that...)

As my husband, Jenny, so nicely put it... gender identity disabled....
If a CD marries a woman, who he thinks or knows wont be accepting or supportive, why does he still marry her? Isnt it like a person born with only one leg, and to help him with his problem, he goes and have another arm made for him....
Even if you love a girl, to marry her, just because you love her, and then gradually, as you all say, with small steps and alot of talk, you hope she changes and accepts, or even better, supports you.
If you wanted a supportive or accepting wife, then you shouldve married one.
I didnt want to marry a CD... I wanted to marry a man man... but I did marry a CD (and I do love him) without knowing, because he decided not to be open about it, risking losing me.

So no, we might not always know how bad you feel etc, but it is not fair to expect some things from an SO that they didnt sign up for.

Thank you for allowing my rant.

[Teresa]

Lidea your answer to that is many of us struggle to accept our CDing, possibly many think it will pass, marriage may be the cure ! The other point is, I was still a fully functioning male who despite being a CDer wanted a loving relationship with a woman ! You and Jenny have five great kids, and they're your future Cding or not you should try not to affect their future !

I will pick up the point Jenny made about other people's ailments. My brother-in-law is a manic depressive, he has had the whole family rallying round and supporting him, despite that he is a very successful farmer. He has cried on everyone's shoulder and called all his therapists quacks , even the one I saw. I have to listen to him while he denegrates his family while I suffer in silence, thinking I'm still trying to do my best for my family and function enough to go out week after week for thirty years to photograph weddings.
This another reason why I'm saying I'm entitled to let Teresa have some time, so where's my support ?

[Lidea]

Thank you, Teresa, for you calm answer after my rant.
Im not at a good place currently, feeling some resentment.

Just to show that I feel for you, here is a hug.

[NicoleScott]

Lidea, I agree with Teresa, Especially for those of us who found crossdressing sexually exciting, many of us married with the sincere belief that the desire to crossdress would be replaced with the desire for our new brides. We were wrong, as they are separate things, but we didn't know it at the time, especially for those of us who married pre-internet and were totally alone with our crossdressing. My deception was not intentional. Even so, there were consequences, and I accept responsibility.

[PaulaQ]

@Lidea - when I got married, I was in denial. I was deeply ashamed that I'd CDed in the past, and never intended to do it again. Many of us go through these same emotions. I didn't want to face that I was a woman, because transition seemed like such an impossibility. I mean, just a total fantasy, like becoming a billionaire. I loved my bride-to-be dearly, I still do. I knew she was the love of my life. I also knew that the moment I breathed a word of this, we'd be over. So hey, I was never going to do it again, so I just never told her.

How was I supposed to find an accepting woman? I didn't understand what or why I had these feelings all my life? If I told ANYONE, I knew I could be outed, losing friends, my job, all sorts of consequences. There were no models I knew of that would've shown me how to be authentic, how to be myself, and I damn sure couldn't imagine any woman who'd tolerate my past, much less how to find them. Because its not like there were a bunch of happy, out, hetero CD couples I could come to know in Dallas back in the 90's.

Even today, a CD/TG who's outed could lose their career. I know many who have. They face derision, ridicule, and sometimes violence. It is not an easy thing to be out and transgender. I am, and I know how it is. I'm pretty lucky too - I passed fairly well before HRT. Most do not.

I think younger trans have a better shot at finding a partner and being open. More women now can admit to their own bisexuality, for instance. Past a certain age, its sort of like one person with a secret trying to find another with a secret. And even for women who aren't bi, but just don't mind a gender variant spouse - how would they ever discover they were OK with it or even enjoyed it?

@Teresa - to answer your question, no, nobody understood the pain my gender dysphoria caused me. Not even after I attempted suicide last year. The only person who really seemed to have some idea was my son. When I came out to him, he stayed with me for a few days, and ultimately just told me to be Paula around him, because he could see the misery of being a man written on my face.

The last time my wife saw me, I presented as a guy. That was 9 months ago. We had business to close between us in Oklahoma. It was a miserable day, but HRT made it more bearable. She wanted me to do it anyway - she couldn't bear to see me as a woman. It was the last time in my life that I'll ever appear as a man. I'd rather die than do that again.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

So much heart ache and pain here!! And yet, whenever a 'cure' is mentioned on this forum almost everyone bands together to chant 'we don't need one!' Honestly, reading here makes me think y'all do. This can't be a healthy way to live, can it?? I don't even see social acceptance as the issue anymore either. There seems something much darker at play...a sense of broken self maybe...like split personalities. I mean, it's very, very difficult to be on the other side of all this and hear someone say they want to die because they can't wear a wig and dress. How are we seriously meant to understand this?? Surely, your external presentation isn't who you are? Why do you need wigs and dresses to be yourself? It really doesn't matter one whit what I'm wearing...I'm always just me. Why can't you be Jenny or Teresa or whomever in your guy clothing?

I guess it's that 'fractured' thing again, and it really does make me sad that this happens to men. I just don't see how living as two distinct people can be healthy??

Anyway, big hugs to everyone here. Life is short and for many today (think Gaza, Syria etc) life is also filled with horror. Perhaps a little perspective is needed? We could all get taken out by Ebola tomorrow, so maybe appreciating what you do have and not what you don't is a good start x

[Desirae]

I have the daily thoughts that keep me "sometimes" from accomplishing what I need to do. Rarely, do I have 100% focus on any task. My head is a whirlwind most days. Even if I'm not dressing, my head IS, if you know what I mean. I guess that's the GD. It can be a struggle sometimes, I have to admit. It's a lot more than it used to be. It's been pretty bad for about a year or so now. Triggers don't even come into play anymore. What's in my head is more than enough. I can't answer the second part of your question.

[Lidea]

PaulaQ, thank you too for your explanation. Although I still am not planning on becoming supportive, I definitely try to become less judgemental and irritated by it. And as Tink saud, it is really sad that one's happiness can be defined by appearing as something you are not born to be.
I do feel sorry for you.
Hugs
Lidea

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi

Tinkerbell, I just want to clear something up. I don't want to not live anymore sometimes because I can't wear a dress and a wig when I would like to. The reason I sometimes don't want to live anymore is because of the collatoral damage caused by CD'ing. The price it extolls on people, relationships an obviously myself. The relationship with my parents. How it affects my wife, our marriage, my kids and the values we are trying to vest in them. The fact that this thing can be generational and affect them or my grandkids one day. So many broken lives, all as a result of my disfunction as a son, a husband, a father, a grandparent one day. Me not being able to dress is only 10-20% really. But then I find the strength to go on again because I know the damage of me not being there will be a lot more.

Besides, crossdressing is still fun and guess who gets to dress tonight?

[PaulaQ]

@Tinkerbell-GG, Lidea

I mean, it's very, very difficult to be on the other side of all this and hear someone say they want to die because they can't wear a wig and dress. How are we seriously meant to understand this?? Surely, your external presentation isn't who you are? Why do you need wigs and dresses to be yourself? It really doesn't matter one whit what I'm wearing...I'm always just me. Why can't you be Jenny or Teresa or whomever in your guy clothing?

And as Tink saud, it is really sad that one's happiness can be defined by appearing as something you are not born to be.

So I'll answer you both from my perspective, and based on my own beliefs, which I feel are backed by current scientific research.

The first thing I'll say is that I firmly believe that those of us who are gender variant, from cross dressers, to gender queer people, to transsexuals like me, are born this way. Current neurological research suggests that gender variance results from abnormal hormonal conditions during pregnancy. These can result from issues that occur in the mother during pregnancy, or can be genetically induced - some babies are insensitive to certain hormones that are needed when the baby's sex develops.

The brain, in particular, is one of the last organs to develop differently based on sex. It's well known, and easily demonstrated that intersexed people exist. I have a friend (who's also trans), who was born with a fully functional set of male reproductive organs, as well as a set of ovaries. These things happen with our reproductive organs, so it's entirely plausible, and good evidence is currently being gathered to support this, that these same types of issues can happen during the development of a baby's brain.

So in the more extreme cases, like me, you literally get a male sexed body with a female sexed brain. A transsexual, like me, is, really literally, a woman trapped in a man's body. This is such an intrinsic characteristic, that you can't change it - my brain is literally wired differently than a man's - it's more like yours! It's literally easier to change the body to match the brain than it is to rewire the brain to match the body. You can't change the gender of someone's mind without destroying it.

So I was definitely born to be a woman. I just have a genuinely awful birth defect - namely a penis.

OK, fine, transsexuals - but this is the cross dresser's forum - why am I talking about transsexuals?

I believe that ultimately it will be shown that the root cause of much, if not all, cross dressing, is ultimately the same as the cause of transsexualism - neurological differences that occur during fetal development. I think that cross dressers don't have a fully female identity formed. Perhaps the extent of their neurological differences are lesser than those of a transsexual. Or maybe many more of them would transition, were it more socially accepted and easier to accomplish. Perhaps their internal resistance is greater, or the male portion of their brain is more developed. We don't know, and it'll probably be a while before we do, because scientific research on cross dresser's is pretty lacking, quite frankly.

My conclusion is that we are just born this way. Just like gay people, the brains of folks on the trans spectrum are just somehow different. (In fact, current research is focused on the hypothalamus.)

As for why the clothes made a difference for me - and why I think they make a profound difference for many here - our clothing tends to root our identities in certain respects. When I wore my man suit, EVERYONE expected me to be a man - the man they'd always known. These expectations wore on me so heavily because I was not a man. Moreover, my wig, my breastforms, my makeup, all of those things made me appear as my brain told me that I needed to appear. Seeing a man look back at me in the mirror, feeling a male body was just wrong - it felt horrible. Everything about it was just totally wrong.

Maybe this analogy will help explain what I felt. Imagine you are taking a cross country trip in your car. Some miles down the road, a little too far to turn back, one of your warning lights and buzzers starts to go off. But nothing is wrong with your car. As you travel along, more and more warning lights and buzzers and alerts start to go off. The din inside your car from all that noise is deafening. It's hard to pay attention to your speed because of all the stupid warning lights that distract you. By the time you reach your destination, days later, you are out of your freaking mind because of the way your car is behaving. It's just an awful experience to be in your car.

I think some of the CDs on this forum experience a similar feeling, it's just less intense. Perhaps only a few warning lights are going off for them.

So I have to respectfully disagree with the statements from both of you fine ladies:
1. We are definitely born to be this way - it's who we are.
2. We don't need a cure - society does. People expect we are totally determined by our genitals, and we just aren't. Sure, most people do conform to the behavior that would be expected of someone of their sex. But not all of us do, and society's inability to deal with this is a big part of the problem. We hide who we are, and lie about it all, because in most cases growing up, we are given no other real choice.

I don't mean to imply that this situation isn't terrible for the SO of a gender variant person - it is horrible for you too, and it really isn't your fault at all. The problem is, society isn't willing to deal with us as our authentic selves, whether that's "just a CD", or a TS. So you get hurt in this process too. It sucks for us all.

[Nadya]

Well said Paula!

[JocelynRenee]

PaulaQ, thank you too for your explanation. Although I still am not planning on becoming supportive, I definitely try to become less judgemental and irritated by it. And as Tink saud, it is really sad that one's happiness can be defined by appearing as something you are not born to be.
I do feel sorry for you.
Hugs
Lidea

Before I get into my view on this subject, let me be very clear that I respect wives such as Lidea and Tink. Wives who are blindsided by the revelation that their husbands are T* have every right to feel whatever emotion they feel. You earn kudos and respect for spending time here, contributing your perspective, and trying to find a way forward in your own relationships.

That said, I think it is useful to acknowledge that there are two different perspectives at play. You say we are pretending to be something we were not born to be; I say I am behaving exactly as I was born to be. You say it is sad that our happiness depends on not accepting our true nature; I say it is sad that you cannot accept the truth that this is what makes me happy. It is a simple truth that I am T*. It doesn't become untrue if I can't explain it or if someone else can't understand or accept it.

In my view we find ourselves struggling on opposite sides because we don't value truth above all. Everyone wants a great spouse, friends, job, house, etc. but what value do any of these things have if they don't rest on a foundation of truth? It's obvious why we choose to hide the truth, but shouldn't it be equally obvious that living a lie leads to loneliness, fear, and loss?

My first long-term relationship was six years of bliss, marred by fear of discovery. I loved her and she loved me...right up until she discovered my secret. Then she hated me and worked 24/7 to destroy my life. Did she have to be so vindictive? No, but the truth is she was. The bigger truth, though, is we should never have been together in the first place. I wasted six years of my life and she wasted six years of her life. No more.

Every person in the world has to accept that I am T*. They don't have to like it. They don't have to understand it. That's their truth. My truth is that I don't need them.

[Sharon B.]

I think about it every day but can't do it as often as I would like to, I have other things that I need to get done but will have nail polish on my toenails and will be wearing panties under jeans or shorts. I hope to it on Sunday and Monday of this week but at this time I can't say one or the other I will be doing it. I can say I will be thinking about out 24-hours in the day I think about it 14-hours or more.

[Beverley Sims]

An interesting problem Teresa, I do not have the mental struggle but I do just get on with it and enjoy life when I can.

Posting on here is a good outlet for me.

[ReineD]

This another reason why I'm saying I'm entitled to let Teresa have some time, so where's my support ?

Teresa, I'm going to ask you some very specific questions.

1. How much time, exactly, do you have to dress on a monthly basis? Once per month on average, once or twice per week?

2. And when you do dress, how long can you remain dressed? Is it when your wife is gone shopping and you only have a few hours? Or do you get a solid block of time on a regular basis to dress? (I'm assuming a level of dressing that matches your avatar, which is full makeup and full female presentation.)

3. When you do dress, does your wife know each time, or do you dress without discussing it with her before hand for example you dress mostly while she is away? In other words, would you consider your relationship DADT?

4. If your wife does know that you are about to dress before you actually start dressing, does she give you her blessing, even though she may not be involved?

[Teresa]

Reine, At the present time I would have the opportunity to dress 2 days in the week when my wife babysits and 2 evenings when she covers amedical walk in centre and possibly most weekends when she does the same, they are only opportunities which I may not make full use of, possibly half of that time. So I do get solid blocks if I choose, I may underdress or fully dress but very rarely with makeup and wig.
There is never any consultation, I don't ask permission she never suggests I can dress, she is literally letting me get on with.
I think she feels she's giving me this short window of opportunity before she fully retires knowing how much I've desperately struggled for so long in the past. These are all assumptions, also don't forget I've only come out even to the level I'm at now since joining the forum last December. After all these years I would never have dreamed that I would be talking to other CDers and their partners.
Reine I hope for whatever reason I've given the answers you needed.

[ReineD]

The point of my questions is, if you feel at all constrained then it will make the need to dress all that much more urgent. This undoubtedly feels as if you are being deprived and that your family members are not knowing "the real you". People who can dress at will, who do not have to wait until a spouse is absent, who do not worry about having to change back before she comes home, etc, do not obviously fight it mentally as you described in your first post ... or at least this is the case with my SO and I dare say everyone else here who also has freedom. They know that they can dress whenever they want to and the need to dress doesn't seem to take on such epic proportions that I sense you experience.

You might also be worrying about what will happen when your wife does retire. This must be making things worse, since you do not feel that you can dress in her presence. We had a member who was in shoes similar to yours, who went through very difficult times when his wife retired. Like you, it was a DADT arrangement.

I don't know you or your wife. But I do know that oftentimes, crossdressers make it worse for themselves when they imagine that they cannot talk to their wives about their needs for fear of driving the wives away. So my point is that as long as you are not honest with your wife about your need to dress without having to be constantly looking at the calendar or the clock for her absence and return, you will experience the feeling you describe, that you are fighting something epic that can no longer be suppressed.

It's up to you, you can continue to live this way if you want to. But I don't think that you have to. You might say that your wife doesn't want to hear about any of this, but if she loves you I dare say that she would be shocked to know the degree to which you often feel uncomfortable to the degree that you describe here. She may be much more accommodating than you feel if you take your courage in your hands and are honest with her.

I need to add a caveat. If you were to feel as if you were TS and had to transition it would be one thing (few wives are prepared to live a public life with another woman), but if you desire to dress at will in the privacy of your home, or attend support groups, or go out occasionally in the next town over dressed, this I believe is something that can be quite manageable. And once you do feel more free mentally, I do not think that you will want to dress all the time. I think there will be lots of times when you will be happy to be your guy self, for example when you are with your friends and your grandchildren, and even when you are doing things with your wife.

[Aly Cat]

That struggle doesn't go away even if you are out to everyone and everyone accepts you. It's a daily struggle. I am out to everyone in both my personal and professional life and am 4 months into transition. It is always in my mind. I have a French manicure, wear makeup, style my hair feminine, and wear women's clothes full time regardless of work or home. I work in a customer facing retail environment and no one questions me. I am free to be me... And yet.... The struggle is real. Dysphoria still hits, I still get depressed that I'm not a GG, I hate my male features, and how long it's taking for my features to change. I think anyone who is TG, regardless of where they fit in on the spectrum, feels emotions similar. It's this longing to let out inner expression.

[PaulaQ]

@Aly Cat - no one who's body and mind aren't congruent can understand the horrible feelings we experience. The most sympathetic cisgender person will never experience anything even approximating what we go through. The horrible wrongness of my body is one of the most ghastly experiences I've ever had, and believe you me, I've experienced many, many other quite unpleasant things.

[ReineD]

That struggle doesn't go away even if you are out to everyone and everyone accepts you. It's a daily struggle. I am out to everyone in both my personal and professional life and am 4 months into transition.

Yes, I know. There are TSs who transition, and there are CDers who want to express themselves with freedom, who do not feel the need to transition. You are obviously TS , but the mistake is in assuming that members who hang out on this side of the forum and who do not post in the TS section, feel as you do. My earlier remarks were addressed to CDers and not TSs.

There's an old joke: what's the difference between a TS and a CD. The answer is 2 (or 3) years. I've only ever heard transsexuals say this, not crossdressers. So I wonder if most TSs do think that everyone who wants to present as a woman is a TS in denial?

[Isabella Ross]

Reine, well said. I think for me and many other gurls I have talked with, being TG and dressing part time is a joyous thing...and certainly, since coming out to my wife and gaining the freedom to be girl anytime I want, has removed all of the negativity from being TG. And yes, I do consider myself transgendered...I am transgendered, therefore I need to dress and express myself as a woman regularly -- but not always, and I am also happy in my male skin. Having said that, anyone such as Paula or Aly who is clearly TS and feels they're in the wrong body clearly has my sympathy for having lived with that "horrible wrongness of body" and any circumstances that prevent them from changing. And while we have differences, I see everyone--TG, TS, etc.--as sisters...we're different, but we're all in this together somehow.

[Coping2014]

Coping asked in one of her replies why I stay married ? Well I've just celebrated forty years, I have two great grown up kids and three lovely grandchildren . I live in a nice house in a good sized plot all paid for, to trade all that to go off and dress up with no guarantee of happiness would be senseless !

Talking is the only solution but how much my wife is prepared to listen I can't answer ! I said I would never denigrate my wife on the forum, my CDing isn't her fault. Sadly after all these years I have to accept she married the wrong person, despite giving all she could ask for !

I guess it brings me to the thread in Loved ones about honesty, when do you tell the truth ?

OK so I'm a Brit ! We're suppose to have stiff upper lips ( even with lipstick on ! ) I've had my moan, I'll just have to get over it and do my best !

I remember asking you that and the reason I asked is you sounded as if there was nothing of any happiness in your life - I even read it again to be sure before I asked you that question. I guess my question for you was more for me - if my husband was not happy (as unhappy as you stated you were) then I'm PRETTY sure it would have an effect in every day life. Moody, anger, distance, etc. I as the wife would wonder and feel as if it was me the reason for this and I don't want to EVER be the reason for my husbands unhappiness. It would just kill me. I mean we are married to have and make a life together - to be happy together or at least purse it! I may not have 40 years in but I'm not a newbie to marriage either - we will celebrate our 22nd next month and I do hope to have that again and MORE! But I don't want to stay married out of convenience. My husband and I are new to the whole CDing he only came out in May and we are working on it - it is better than it was but I still don't get it. I love the person he is becoming but I still don't understand the dressing aspect - and as you all have pointed out many times I probably never will. If we come to a point were it is too much for me (I don't know what that is or if it will ever come to this but it is just me planning worst case scenario in my head) I hope we can split amicably as we too have children. But I don't want him to stay if he's not happy and has to compromise himself out of who he is - that isn't fair to either of us.

As far as your comment of talking being the only solution - are you bringing it up? I literaly had to drag it out of my husband in the begining - he is much better about sharing now - THANK GOD! But sometimes you just have to speak your mind. In a respectful manner mind you - there is a sense of tact that is needed in approaching this subject as to not harm either parties feelings. In the begining my husband and I would say - "give me the benifit of the doubt and hear me out I'm sure I'm saying this wrong but it is the only way I know how right now- help me express it better once I'm done with my thought - then he or I would say what we needed to say or ask. We are better now and don't say that now we just know it's implied - we love one another and have no intention of setting out to hurt the other so we know it is more about us just not knowing how to express it. There is no right time to bring something up. I mean ya don't do it when you can tell she is OBVIOUSLY stressed or mad about something else. But if it is just a regular day and nothing else is really happening just say you need to talk - that you know there is no right time but it's weighing on you and you need her to hear you out.

Coping2014