Uncomfortable

[Andy66]

Katey, I was actually planning to edit my reply to add something similar to what you said. It really boils down to having an image that inspires customers to give you their money. Doing great work is the most important thing of course, but customers can be VERY critical and judgmental of everything, including what they feel your appearance should be. If you dont look the way they think an IT person should, they are likely to make a snap judgment and take their money elsewhere. Its not right at all, but its business.

[DonnaT]

Yes, we should be free to be ourselves. However, since the dawn of mankind, judging others has been a human characteristic.

Being thinking people, you'd think others would be reasonable, but history has proven otherwise.

There is no such thing as a perfect utopian society.

[PaulaQ]

Thank you Sara. I know I'm an odd fish. I wish there were more like me here. (Frankly, I'm surprised that I'm so unique)

I want to *belong*, in the same way that you folks who are pretty do. I'm your sister, and I will use my fur and muscle to defend and protect you. I'm ashamed that 'civil' society has such a hard time finding a comfortable place for you/us.

It's ironic, but so many of us who are gender variant are some of the staunchest defenders of the gender binary. We may cross the lines, but we are damn well certain that those lines exist! Perhaps it's because we so desperately need our bodies to conform to what our minds tell us we should be seeing. The pain from that makes us not understand others who don't suffer from the exact same discomfort. Or, perhaps we are all really conditioned to follow society's norms, with the exception of ourselves and others who look like us. If so, that's kinda short-sighted, if you ask me. (And rather judgmental.)

I do know that what you complain of is very real. One of my GF's (the butch), would have no problem with how you present. The other one (the femme), would totally freak out about it and not understand it at all.

Anyway hon, I'd talk to you at an event, and I'd hang with you. There's nothing wrong with being a big strong furry girl with a beard. Just not one thing. I love all the wondrous variations on gender that exist out there, and make us all so unique.

I may be just weird, but what I do, kind of automatically now, is when I look at one of us, I try to figure out who that person is on the inside, and then kind of see them that way when I look at them. Anyway, it's the stuff inside that I really care about.

[mechamoose]

Thank you, PaulaQ. May I buy you a drink?

I'd LOVE to hang out with you sweetie!

- MM

[MsVal]

Unfortunately there is a vast gulf between "Should be free.." and "Are free...".

On second thought, we ARE free to be ourselves. And so are 3 billion other people. They are free to accept or reject, to hire or not. So we certainly may be ourselves, accepting whatever benefits and disadvantages that may entail.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tina_gm]

These are the cards you have been dealt in life, and unfortunately, you have been dealt the joker gender card. Most of us have in some sort, yours maybe moreso than others, but............................................... ...

You still have many great things going for you! Think you have it bad? I know a woman who lost her husand to alcoholism. A once great man who just lost it totally and she had to watch him for 5 years drink himself to death. I know another woman who lost her 18 year old son to a car accident. And he was truly a good kid. It was one of the hardest funerals I have ever attended. Imagine how she feels every time someone talks about how their son is going off to the military or off to college, or lands a good job, or whatever. Or they are now grand parents. She has to think, that would have been me, but no. There is a teenager who has Duchenne muscular dystrophy. The 1st 2 years of his life were normal. Then odd things were happening and pain began. By 6 he was using walkers and canes. By 10 in a wheelchair. Now today, every moment is pure agony. His mother is distraught and helpless, who would do anything to take her sons pain and misery away, including taking it on herself, because that is what most parents would gladly do if they could. the family is torn apart by this kid who will never reach adulthood and will suffer horrifically every day until he dies which is not much longer now.

I know this post is a bit different then the rest. And I am not making light of how you must feel inside. I feel a version of it myself at times. But I think of these things I mentioned and others I haven't, and realize things could be a lot worse, and I have no idea how those people get through what they do. They do though, and if they can than certainly I can.

[kimdl93]

I wish I had some brilliant advice or insights to share with you. I have some common perspective since I'm 6 foot 2 or a little more and presently weigh in at 230....and I'm not blessed with the most feminine facial features. I don't let it keep me housebound, however. And I really don't have any problems with the reactions of people around me. Maybe they're scared

[stefan37]

You can be of present anyway you want. The secret to wearing a skirt or makeup or nail polish is to own it. It may take a while to feel comfortable, but your comfort level is key to you being you. Be who you want, display confidence, own it and you will be accepted.

[devida]

i have been trying to think, moose, why I don't feel the way you do. I think it may be because I am perfectly content being my own gender. I really do mean my own gender. I do not consider myself to be male. I don't see a man when I look in the mirror. I also don't see a woman, or a man who wants to be a woman. I see someone who is quite happy being neither male nor female but free to adopt whatever he or she likes from either binary. It was a huge relief to me when I understood that I wasn't a man. It seemed like a great weight fell away. A lot of the conflict I had experienced with maleness throughout my life just vanished. I am enormously reluctant to pick up another weight, this one labelled female. I am afraid that I would end up just as uncomfortable and have just as much difficulty in synchronizing the way I looked and the way I felt.

I am very grateful to have discovered my real gender in a time when a vocabulary that describes people like me has been developed (by people like me). But I have no expectation of anyone else, that is anyone who is not non binary, whether cisgendered or trans, understanding this. Why would I? People are so complicated that almost everyone uses a binary gender shorthand, and that shorthand has only just begun to include mtf and ftm trans people, that is people who are still partcipating in the binaries of male and female, just not the genders they were assigned at birth. I would certainly like it if more people would understand that there are genders beyond the binaries of male and female but making this a requirement in my interactions with others would just make me shrill and unhappy. I will certainly educate people if that is what they want but I refuse to allow their lack of understanding to be a reason for my unhappiness. I recognize that most people have a great deal of difficulty thinking beyond the binaries. That is okay. It is complicated.

I abandoned my identification with the male gender because it was making me depressed, agressive, violent and anti social. I see no reason why would I find something else to make me unhappy. Trying to be perfectly feminine would probably make me as crazy as trying to be perfectly male made me. Demanding that other people accept me as I accept myself would also make me crazy. Most people can't accept themselves why would I get my panties in a twist because they don't know how to accept me? Why would I do that to myself? For the first time in my life the face in the mirror and the person I feel myself to be are the same. I plan on holding on to that experience as long as I can.

[visualkei]

Hey man, I think you have an angle there though. There are some women that are serious competitors in figure competitions and some of them get quite large on the outside. A lot of them feel like you in terms of being a little girl on one side of their personality. Some of those women have people whispering when people pass wondering if she's a woman or a man.
You gotta own it, man. How you feel can't always express itself on the outside physically.
It's the same for biological males and females trying hard just to represent their own gender.
I've seen some large drag queens pull off some pretty astonishing looks. And I know you're not going for that, but I think you can make do with what you've got and grow into it.

Also you might want to see if you can compromise with your lady. Beards grow back. XD

[susmitha]

Dear Mechamoose, I can understand your situation. But you are lucky in one way. Your wife is ready to be the "boy" in the relationship. My condition is opposite to your condition. I am only 5 feet tall (same as my wife) and 120 lb, about 5 or 6 lb more than my wife. I have a hairless body. During my childhood, when I crossdressed, my mother told me I looked more beautiful than my sisters. Even now, when I crossdress, nobody can make out that a male body is hiding inside the clothes. I do not like the male role in the bed room. I want my wife to dress as a man and make love to me assuming that I am the woman. She will not accept anything; she is not even ready to accept my crossdressing and she is not ready to dress as a man when only both of us are around. I know that she used to play male roles in college dramas. But she won't do it for me.

[KellyJameson]

My gender identity has always been a constant even when I refused to admit what that identity was and it existed independent of my body because it was learned by my relations as a child with boys and girls leaving me with a deep sense of what gender tribe I belonged to. My gender identity was created because of others and by others in relationship to how I experienced myself contrasted against them and it has always been this way.

I largely ignored gender roles until I could change my outward appearance to than more comfortably step into these roles and to eliminate the dissonace my body caused me by being "foreign to me" as "unnatural" and this was always felt at my deepest core.

You want to be sure your identity comes from some place other than gender roles because otherwise what you feel may be the desire to rebel against the constraints of gender roles but without the actual gender identity to support this rebellion.

Feeling like a little bitty girl inside could be the contrast between your physical form that limits how you want to express yourself but this may have nothing to do with actually identifying as a woman. Gender identity is formed in the first years of life and unless you have always felt conflicted than I would urge caution because you may simply be making yourself miserable by desiring something impossible to attain while also not being suitable to obtain it as that inner person you were born as that must now live with what you have created.

I have seen some transsexuals become socially isolated because they transitioned but could not lose the physical features associated with the male sex and they had the unmistakable air of a man around them so they become gross caricatures of something abnormal that people find repellant, so avoid.

Someone that needs to transition will transition regardless but they than must live with the consequences of the physical limits placed on them by the limits of medicine.

You can do whatever you want if you can live with the consequences.

Extreme gender dysphoria will take you to a place where you do not care about the consequences "at the time" but this comes with huge risk.

In my opinion no one should ever transition unless they have always, since their earliest memories, identified as opposite their body and than secondly the social roles we perform with these bodies.

It is very easy to destroy your life. Please be careful and be sure what you are suffering from really is gender dysphoria and not fantasy and the social limits imposed on everyone in one form or another.

Rebellion, fear and fantasy can be a toxic mix.

[Sara Jessica]

Andy - can I carry that thought a bit further in defence of my fellow corporate managers... They're not all bad folk...

Katey, you bring up some great points. This coming from a fellow corporate manager-type who has been bucking the trend for several years by way of my hair which has likely contributed to some career stagnation.

It's ironic, but so many of us who are gender variant are some of the staunchest defenders of the gender binary.

Sign me up, I've already admitted this. But let the record reflect that I too would also love to hang with MM at an event, should the opportunity ever arise.

One of my best friends is Sherry, she of the mask who is often misunderstood by many until they take a moment...a mere moment to get to know her. Like you, she may be an outlier in our community but this doesn't diminish how awesome she is. But as uncomfortable as it make her, she knows when to go without said mask and when to bring it out. That is kind of like your own presentation, MM. But unfortunately, growing face-fur isn't as easy as going without for certain situations and plopping it back on for others. Yours is a tricky situation I must say.

[natcrys]

Hey MM!

I always love your posts.. and I'm sorry to hear about experiences at some of those get-togethers. Perhaps some of the girls didn't know how to react or what to say to someone who expresses femininity in a non-binary-gender way.. or perhaps they were just straight-up stuck-up b****es!

If you love your beard, I'd say keep it.. society already tries to determine how we should act, dress, etc. We don't need that crap again in the world of crossdressing/transgenderism.

And I think I've said it way back in another thread.. you seem like a fun cool person, which is the only thing that matters.. if we're ever regionally close.. let's hang out!

[noeleena]

Hi,

M-M you know somit not so easy for some of us who are female, just its when your not born as fully - complete as most other females, and that allso brings with it other issues ,

I know some who will never accept just because im born different that im a female , you know my fail points to dam obvious as you look and others my photo, yes i get on well with those many who know me and they have accepted yet on first aproach what is seen a normal female doubt it hell no , or a male looking ..... what the hell is this, trying to figure me out,

a male dressed as a woman,,,,, even so for all that ill get accepted by inlarge by most people , And the funny side to this is im not a threat to the womens husbands as they know they would never look at me as a mate , come on theres gota be an up side to being odd,

the other part for me is i accepted my differences and live with it and yes i can laugh about it part of being weird if you like, or insane ether way , makes life Fun

...noeleena...

[Krisi]

You can be who you ARE and not be sorry for it, that's your right, but you shouldn't complain when others don't accept you. That's their right. If you want to be accepted by a group, you have to try to fit in with that group. That's pretty much how groups work.

[atlflygirl]

So, in my daily life situation, I find I have to hide behind my fur. I'm in NFL ranges for body and weight, but I internally identify as a tiny thing with boobs & hips.

I'm never going to be one of you girls that can 'pull it off'... one who can wear a short skirt & heels and have it look *right*.

- MM

Moose, I have many of the same issues you have. I love shaving my body, but the men in my world want a hairy guy. I want to shave my face, but my eyes tell me no, grow the beard out and don't worry about it. My beard seems to be a manifestation of my biological maleness as well as the subconscious desire to be attractive to gay men who want a man with rough masculine features. When I put on my makeup, my girl shirts and shoes or even my dress, I feel 100% better. I don't know why, I just accept it. I may never pass, but at this point, it is a luxury to have access to female clothing, makeup and perfume, and it feels right. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to shave to wear feminine clothing. Enjoy yourself for who you are and others will too.

[Tracii G]

Moose shave the body hair and beard then maybe you will feel better about yourself.
Don't worry about your body shape just dress to accentuate your positive attributes.
Like you I will always be the girl I am inside and will never really look like it on the outside.
Once I shed the facial hair a big part of my struggle was over.

[lexivanderpump]

MM,
If you like the beard, keep it. Now let's talk about the real issue here. The other "girls" seemed to have avoided you like the plague according to your account at the CD gatherings you have attended. Personally, I am very disappointed in those girls. Why? As I have mentioned in other posts, we girls seek "tolerance and possibly even acceptance" from others, yet some of us don't "practice what we preach." I will, however, tolerate those "girls" behavior, but I will not accept it.

Beard or no beard, they should have made an effort.

Love,
Lexi V.

[mechamoose]

Hi all, thank you for all the encouraging comments!! You girls are awesome!

My beard is a non-issue in my field. I keep it neat and trimmed and nobody blinks.

When I grew a pony-tail?? *SCANDAL!!*

I worked in IT for many years with a 2 foot+ rat-tail. It didn't get half the comments that the pony-tail did. :/

I want (and my wife wants) me to have long hair. I have had interviews go bad over long hair.

Beard? Not an issue. Honest.

/kisses

- MM

[sometimes_miss]

Dear Mechamoose, I can understand your situation. But you are lucky in one way. Your wife is ready to be the "boy" in the relationship.

^this. You need to learn to look at the glass being half full instead of half empty. You're in a situation about 95% of us would give our right arm for (alright, right nut after all we only need one, whatever can't be seen and wont' spoil the 'look' we so desparately want). In my defense, I'm bigger and taller than you are. Feet huge, 16. Don't even start me on hat or glove size. So what if you have five oclock shadow at 10 am. if you want to shuck the beard to enjoy a slightly smoother face you can do that, too.
Enjoy what you can in life. It's far too short to let frustration over what you can't have bother you; Enjoy what you do have. Now, there are vendors on ebay that will sew any style dress you want, in any style, in any size. All you need are good measurements, and it seems you have a mate who will accomodate that. Have some fun. Forget the rest. And don't worry about any GG's that don't want anything to do with you; most don't want anything to do with 90% of men out there, no matter what we dress like; women are real picky that way.

[Samantha_Smile]

I'll be frank with you here Mechamoose.
I think the reason your described appearance may rattle people, myself included, is that wearing a pretty dress with a beard and body hair is not the common trait, even amongst CD/TV/TG folk, you are an exception to the 'norm'.
We won't go into what's normal, but I feel safe in saying that most of us (Probably over 95%) are dressing with an idea of emulating girls/women.
So when a male who feels female to whatever extent, has a beard, body hair and overtly manly man appearance and chooses to wear attire designed for girls/women, it gives of the 'bearded lady' impression.
Bearded ladies aren't known for being extroverts, women who are plagued with facial/body hair opt to bleach, laser or electrocute that hair away. The ones who don't are often found in old school circus side shows.

Now, I'm not saying I agree with the above, but lets be honest, it is how society at large views women.
And while the hair may cause a limit to what you wear - its a limit you sorta need to obey, its one I have to obey. Its agreed with my Mrs that i cant shave my legs, but everything else is fair game, so bare legs are a huge no-no - Multiple layers of tights to hide the hair.
There are plenty of big 'gurls' here and around the web who do a great job of looking the business.

I get your frustration - I don't fit either at 7' tall in my heels, size 11 feet and a huge man-jaw and nose...

The question is - Do you want to fit? Or are you happy as you are?

[ThiHi]

Hi MM. One who rarely posts here, but your story touched me.

It is about the binary, isn't it? I'm small, apparently pretty feminine looking. Especially when my hair is longer I get 'Ma'amed" all the time, regardless of what I"m wearing. Not sure where I fit in either. I don't do make-up or forms. I wear women's pants almost exclusively, same with shoes, many tops as well. I have ventured out in skirts, but always out of town. I'm comfortable where I am, mostly. My wife accepts who I am as well, which s the greatest gift I've ever gotten in my life.

I feel for you. Your disconnect is greater than mine by a long shot, and like you, I've gotten the 'stink eye' more than once from people in the LGBTQ community for not conforming to what I'm supposed to be and how I'm supposed to look or act. Makes me shy away from so many activities, to be frank, as I just don't have the strength to overcome that 'look' most of the time.

No advice here, but I really LOVE how you love your body and your internal self, as much confusion and angst as it may be.

Much Love to you and Ms Moose.

[Robert]

Hi MM,

You are not the only one here that is a big, hairy guy who likes wearing feminine clothes. I'm 182cm and 90kgs, and was a body builder for 25 years. My shoulders and arms are massive and totally non-feminine. I also have a beard.

Further, I just have to look at delicate clothing items to totally trash them. I'm also totally crap at walking in heels.

I have no solution for you, just wanted to let you know that there are others here like you.

[Gardener]

I feel for you MM. I am tall, chunky, hairy all over, except the head ,and the beard I grew when I hospital I decided to keep. When I was young there were times when I felt I should have been a girl, or at least wanted to have been. Now I am content with what life dealt me but equally desirous of expressing my feminine feelings. I dress when I can and would like to do more so. My wife knows and is not happy but neithor has she left the relationship. She knows and I thinks understands my need for personal honesty. I feel quite comfy reading and occasionally contributing by posting but I guess I do feel a bit intimidated as so many of you, or those that post, have engineered and worked on an appearance that is so authentic. That some can live lives openly as women is way off the scale of my possibilities. So MM as many have said you are not alone although being alone is something I feel quite often. In fact in many ways on the spectrum you have a confidence tested by exposure that I may never have. So well done, feel good about yourself, your honesty, your complexity, you are special.