CD and TG connections?

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o All,
I was speaking to my SO on the phone tonight, we are trying to resolve a few relationship issues, but our talk turned to how I thought my CDing might progress. She has heard me say that I don't know what this will be in 5 years from now.
She is also concerned that I have mentioned that being CD is somehow connected with being TG.
I've told her I am not really sure how, but can see the connection.
To me, It doesn't matter where I fit, I really don;'t care. I am ME! You get it. she may not.
So........ How do I explain to her the difference between a CD that doesn't feel the desire to transition, and one that lives the life 24/7 and wishes to. But each of us feel we fit into the TG spectrum somehow.
Any thoughts, or ways to explain this to her?
Much Love,
Kristyn

[marshalynn]

My thoughts are, CD and TS are both on the TG scale, CD want to express their fem sides only sometimes, rest of the time they are happy being male, but TS want to be female 100% of the time. Where they fall on the scale, I think is the amount of time they spend in fem mode.. Marshalynn

[TinaZ]

Hi Kristyn:

Here's one of the ways I try to illustrate it: pretend that gender identity is the size of a basketball court, and your ID (individually) is the size of a marble. Your marble has been tossed onto the court and has landed somewhere in the "likes-being-a-guy-but-loves-to-dress-as-a-girl" area. Around the half-court line, I'd say. When something in your behavior changes a bit, the marble rolls a hair (up, down, left, right, doesn't matter).

If you're still with me, there are two points to consider: 1) No change will be dramatic solely based on the scope of the spectrum. I mean, you won't go from where you are today to lying on the operating table tomorrow. And 2) The best way to see if your marble has rolled uncomfortably far is for you and her to take a step back and look at it from a distance. Has it rolled ten feet away? Two feet? An inch? Once you pin down that answer, it's up to you to decide if you need to nudge it back the other direction, or if you can be happy with where it is.

[Hell on Heels]

Thanks Marsha, I think along the same lines.
I think I need to go a bit deeper than that.
She is afraid that my saying that my CD is connected with TG somehow, will lead to me wanting to transition. I tell her that is not my intention, never has.
I may have thought of this earlier, but that was just me figuring out where I was at.
Today, Im Happy being a CD, and ME.

Tina your beautiful! I never did like basketball, but that was a great description of what may happen.
Do you own a crystal ball? Just askin'!
Much Love,
Kristyn

[noeleena]

Hi,

Changes, dresser,s and trans people and both trying to be like women both are wearing similar clothes makeup and all both are striving for that look ,

Ill use appear, seem like, trying to be. or emulate , some wont to live like a woman for how long depends on the person ,

Changes okay a lot you as a person is the difference between a male and woman ,

You SO, wife ,partner, lover, is a female and married a male , okay and you ....ARE... if not allready will and have changed the meer fact of you wearing clothes that are a womans means you have,

dont say you dont or have not changed because thats a blantent lie ,

and as a woman i know what men do i,v been around men who dress and trans to long to know different, wether its fantasy or trying to live like a woman does not matter its the same end result,

I know how your wife -SO feels i know what my reaction would or ill say will be if i were around a male, trust me id kill him . what you are really saying is i wont to be like or a woman , you see you males think you can hide things from us yea well learn quick and fast you cant. you may think you have and maybe for a while , dont count on it,

You may be you to your wife SO you ...ARE ...changed from what you were when you got together , think about it .

And this is my thinking and take it as i intend it ,

okay , i would not trust you to not say you dont wont to live as a woman full time,

You may not and most likely dont like what im saying ,

and from what you are saying you dont know your self ,

You,ll have to come clean one day and the fat will hit the fan,

Call me what ever and rubbish me , im not blinded by what i hear from 1000s. of people concerning trans and dressers, and not just this forum ,

...noeleena...

[Michelle789]

CD and TS are both on the TG spectrum, and are both under the TG umbrella. Both CD and TS, in my opinion and in that of my therapist, have gender dysphoria, but to different degrees.

Most CDers have milder or less progressed GD that has a desire to express a feminine side from time to time, which may be once a month, once every two weeks, once a week, or even several times a week, or may include daily underdressing, but no desire to transition - they are happy being men, they don't hate their penis or beard, like having sex with their lives, and enjoy the aspects of manhood. How often you need to dress as a woman varies and will generally increase over the years, but in most cases will not lead to transition. Because even with a strong desire to dress, there is a strong desire to be a man too.

TSes have much more severe and progressed GD to the point that they are completely miserable unless they transition. TSes often feel severe pain and the GD often interferes severely in their lives, and often but not always want to commit suicide because the GD is so bad. A TS can and often thinks they are a CD before realizing they are TS. Some TSes never wore an article of women's clothes until transition. TSes may have been really good at being men prior to transition, or may have had a really difficult time trying to be men, or anywhere in between.

The cruel truth is, and this is the scary part, is neither you nor your significant other will know until after the fact that if you are TS or CD. If you never transition that you are probably not TS. But you might think you are a CD and than years later transition and realize you are TS. There is no way to know, and unfortunately it is a crapshoot for all practical purposes as to whether or not you as a CDer will ever transition.

Now here's the good news. There's a 98% chance you, as a CDer, will never transition. There's a 50% chance you will get divorced for reasons not related to being a CDer or TS. You have a far better chance of getting divorced than transitioning. In fact, there is a better chance you will get snow in your coastal California home town sometime in your lifetime than you transitioning. For those who live in places that get snow, there is a better chance of getting snow in June (December if you live in the southern hemisphere) at some point in your lifetime than transitioning.

Let me rephrase this. You are 25 times more likely to get a divorce than transition. You are twice as likely to see snow fall at some point in your life in coastal California than transition. You are twice as likely to see snow fall at some point in your life during the months of May, June, July, August, or September, than transition.

There are no guarantees in life. However, the odds that you as a CDer will never transition are pretty damn good.

[Wildaboutheels]

"Might I be TG?" is practically a natural progression for many of the regulars here. The vast majority [with few exceptions] who have felt/still feel guilt and shame.

With advancing age, almost w/o exception, comes longer dresses, shorter heels, more effort and "complete" transformation to "pass as a woman" and fewer[ if any] visits to O ville while "dressed".

ALL of this ^^^ is to be EXPECTED for people suffering the G&S thing.

Nothing more than our BRAINS doing what they can to protect us from ourselves. It's well documented and well understood that our Brains do this CONSTANTLY to help us "justify" our behavior and thoughts and free us from stress if possible.

With all those "other" CDing sites out there, it's an easy guess that less than 1% of the CDers on the planet feel any G&S and likely never move on to "fuller" presentation/lifestyle thoughts.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Wild, Well you and Michelle have really given me some thought.
I dont now, or have I ever thought to fully transition.
me confused?
Much Love Ktristyn

[Katey888]

Kristyn, dear, Michelle's is probably as good a summary as you're going to get about our spectrum, umbrella or mosaic... and I like Tina's basketball court analogy - it helps to give a perspective of actually how hugely variable we are... I'd just add that you should tell your SO that your marble has ALWAYS been in roughly that position for as long as she's known you - she just didn't realise it...

I think you had best prepare yourself for many, many discussions like this over the coming weeks... with any luck a little Californian sensitivity will win out and she will begin to see that although something has been revealed, the underlying person has not changed -as you say, you are you, and that's all...

Good luck as always - just be patient, be normal (ha, ha!) - Keep Calm & Carry On!

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi Kristyn,

My wife had similar concerns when Isha first came stumbling on the stage and as much as I tried to explain the difference between TG/CD and TG/TS she was still slightly bewildered. She understood the academic explanation (TS being trapped in the wrong gender versus dude wants to look like a lady for a short time). However, some things still confused her - Why try to dress complete? Why change mannerisms, walk and voice? Why make-up?

So for me it helped when during one of our Isha discussions that I talked about identity and human condition. Identity defines who we are and is very important to us. If someone takes away your identity then it can cause distress as you loose control over who you are (what defines you as a person). We all have our base identity (you as a person) and beyond that we have several other identities depending on where/with who we interact in the world. For me there is "me - my core", there is military me who dresses very differently and acts very differently than just "me". There is outdoor me, social me and so on. On this spectrum of identity is Isha. She is a part of my core identity just like my other identities. Okay . . . I got the "HUH" from my wife. So I went with more of visual explanation.

Identity is like an orchestra. Together as a whole, it sounds wonderful, powerful and marvellous but if one section is missing then it sounds like chaos. My different identities (military, sporty, social, dude, etc.) are all parts of my orchestra and for many years were a collision of sounds with no substance or sense. Along comes Isha and voila . . . harmony. Does this mean I want to be a woman (transition)? No because for me my male identities are a predominant part of my orchestra and each is required to continue harmonious balance. Isha is just a lone girl string section whose simple but melodious sound weaves sense and order to chaotic music.

Hugs

Isha

[stefan37]

I cross dresser from as far back as I can remember. I can remember in college wanting breasts. As I got older I always thought in the back if my mind I might be TS , but certainly wouldn't admit it to me, let alone anybody else. I identified as a crossdresser. After some potential life threatenjng events around 08. I started to get these powerful internal urges to feminize myself and rather than suppress them I embraced them. I started wearing eyeliner and colored nail polish daily. I got my ears pierced and wore women's jeans,shoes and some androgynous tops. I had long hair and not wanting to be perceived too feminine. I cut it short. My wife and I had several conversations where this might be leading and iassured her I am most likely a cross dresser and willn not transition. We probably had 2 or 3 in depth conversations.

My anxiety level kept climbing through the roof despite various methods to control it. It was becoming obvious to others I was different and rather than talk to me they would ask her. It got to the point she suggested I attend therapy. Long story short I have been on hormones 2 years, in full transition. Getting divorced and selling the house.

Gd is a horrible condition that varies in intensity as we get older. You can try to mitigate and keep it under control. If it is not severe you will be successful, but that may change and although you may not welcome it in your life. You will be powerless to contain it. I would go for months (6-8) with absolutely no desire to dress. It would still be in the back of my mind, but the desire wasn't strong enough that I would need to. Then book, it would seem as I couldn't control the floodgates and I would relent.

Be careful how you approach the subject with your wife. This is where it can get tricky. Only you can know you. If you have even an inkling you may desire to be female, but deny it to yourself. Tread carefully as your words can come back to bite you. Your partner will then feel she had been lied to. I offer this as personal experience, and also the personal experience of a close friend.

For the record my crossdressing was in the open. I told my wife on our third date I have need to wear wear women's clothes. We have been together 35 years and this Sept would have been our 31st anniversary.

Good luck and think deep. Gd will come for you and when it does there isn't much you can do than strap in and hold on tight.

[Kris Avery]

Now here's the good news. There's a 98% chance you, as a CDer, will never transition. There's a 50% chance you will get divorced.

Let me rephrase this. You are 25 times more likely to get a divorce than transition. You are twice as likely to see snow fall at some point in your life in coastal California than transition. You are twice as likely to see snow fall at some point in your life during the months of May, June, July, August, or September, than transition.

There are no guarantees in life. However, the odds that you as a CDer will never transition are pretty damn good.

Well said. Part of this for me is that there is not much you can't do without jumping on an O.R. Table - so why would you? BTW, I would happily lose the beard and hair and not affect my maleness.

[I Am Paula]

I absolutely swore to myself (most important), and three wives that I was just a cross dresser. I told myself through a good part of my life that I could switch back and forth at will, or stop. However, though I didn't know the term, I had GD, and it was progressing. I found, that like a junkie, I needed more and more, and eventually went full time (still telling myself this was a hobby!!) The GD started moving ahead at a terrible rate. I think being full time, non hormone, made things much worse, because now my mind was seeing one thing in the mirror, and feeling another. The descision that I NEEDED to transition came fast at that point. A matter of days. I knew all at once that this had to happen, or I would simply cease to exist. (I have used the 'cease to exist' phrase before, because I was way to chicken to kill myself, and way to chicken to carry on, so therefore I would have just 'ceased to exist' without explanation.)
I truly feel that most CD's will carry on, at one level or another, happily, and never need more. I think those that have GD to the point it will boil over, will know it. The rough part, you never know when that GD will manifest enough that you have to transition. Only a few years ago I would have said that once a CD, always a CD, but I disproved my own theory, I still believe the vast majority will not progress to the point of transition.

[CynthiaD]

One of the biggest mistakes people can make is assuming that there is a natural progression from CD to TS. TS is not the " highest form" of crossdressing. It may seem that way, because some TS people start with crossdressing and progress to HRT and SRS. But a physical transition is a BIG DEAL. It's only right to go slow with it, and take it a step at a time. Some transsexuals seldom crossdress, because they're more focused on bodily changes than in clothes. Most CDs are just that. Crossdressers. Not "transsexuals in waiting."

[MatildaJ.]

After reading this board for a year, I think of CDing as a progressive disease, but with no way to tell how fast or how far the progression will go. And I calm myself down by thinking: suppose the worst does happen -- he eventually gets a very serious form of the condition, and replaces his current persona with a different, female persona. Would I want to have spent the previous years with him? Of course. I treasure the days/weeks and hopefully years we have together. I don't base my happiness on our future growing old together; I base my happiness on the fun times we have together right now.

In the future, if he gets depressed, then we'll have to see what happens then. Maybe I'll feel lucky that we have tools to help him out of the depression (aka HRT), and maybe I'll appreciate his happy female persona more for having spent time with his depressed male persona. But for the moment, I enjoy the time I have with the happy male persona I love and I try not to borrow trouble from a future none of us can predict.

[Lucy_Bella]

To get a better answer to your O.P. you may want to change the "C.D." to "G.D." ....CD was the original umbrella term before T.G. now TG. is favored so you are comparing apples to apples..

G.D. and T.G. connections?...Yes and cross dressing is usually involved ... Will your G.D. progress to where you could possible transition ? Depends on your level of G.D. and looking through the replies it appears that the percentages have been given ...

[Jenniferathome]

Kristyn, I think when a woman hears "TG" it is easily translated into "transition." TG is scarier than cross dresser. It's an unknown vs known phenomenon. I think you need to drop TG from the discussion. If you are only a cross dresser, it does not matter if you are also on the TG spectrum. "Honey, I am a cross dresser, nothing more. I like my parts and they will always be with me," is a declaration that is unequivocal. How much you may want to dress in the future is a different discussion.

[Lucy_Bella]

Kristyn, I think when a woman hears "TG" it is easily translated into "transition." TG is scarier than cross dresser. It's an unknown vs known phenomenon.

Very well said and I agree ..The Media has the Term turned upside down and out of proportion ..

[devida]

As others have said Transgender is an umbrella term that includes cross dressers, transexuals, men and women who want to live to some degree as the opposite gender to that assigned to them at birth, and people like me who are quite content to wander around between the genders but don't want the restrictions of either binary. I do not believe that JesseM is correct in terming being trans as progressive (and certainly no more a disease than any non conforming identity, sexual, gender referenced, or otherwise). Everyone is different. Even cisgendered people are different. It is an artificial and mostly semantic form of stereotyping to see anyone as prototypically male or prototypically female. Most people are a continuum.

Transgender people are perhaps more fluid in their gender variability than cisgendered people but practically no one is at the extremes of the binaries of male and female. Most people feel more or less attracted to their idea of male or female from day to day and that idea changes. Your SO, Kristyn, is guilty of a type of (no doubt fear driven) stereotyped thinking in which she imagines the immense variability of human beings can be reduced to a simple formula. I suggest that you gently open her eyes to the tremendous diversity of gender presentation and identity. It is, after all, all around us. But you might also consider that she is only expressing a fear of abandonment. Apart from being loving and affirming your loyalty to her there may not be much you can do about irrational fears. Being patient, supportive, kind and compassionate is probably your best approach. Perhaps over time she will get over it. You might point out to her there is not one person alive today who knows where they will be in 5 years time. You might also point out that while thinking that something is going to happen may not make it so it can certainly make you unhappy.

Finally you could point out that trans means across. It does not mean to transition. You are across genders. You are not necessarily moving from one gender to another just because you are transgender. The great majority of people who are transgender are not. Being transgender includes being transexual but is not synonymous with it.

[flatlander_48]

I absolutely swore to myself (most important), and three wives that I was just a cross dresser. I told myself through a good part of my life that I could switch back and forth at will, or stop. However, though I didn't know the term, I had GD, and it was progressing. I found, that like a junkie, I needed more and more, and eventually went full time (still telling myself this was a hobby!!) The GD started moving ahead at a terrible rate. I think being full time, non hormone, made things much worse, because now my mind was seeing one thing in the mirror, and feeling another. The descision that I NEEDED to transition came fast at that point.

P:

I understand what you describe, but it seems different from what is usually mentioned here. I would think that most would recognize a bit of discomfort with their male selves or sense some mismatch between their emotional and physical selves. Early on they may not be able to identify what's happening, but they know something isn't quite right.

[MatildaJ.]

devida, I meant no disrespect. I also see life as a progressive disease, since we all pretty much die of it in the end.

But it might be more acceptable if I called CDing a condition, which may progress quickly, or may stay as it is for years and then progress, or may stay unchanged until death. There's no way for a partner to know which version of the condition the CDer has. My husband was content to dress up once a decade, until that changed to wearing panties every day and going out once a month in public. Who could assure me that ten years from now, he won't want to dress every day, or go further still?

My point remains that I stay focused on the good times we have now, rather than worrying about how we'll cope if the condition progresses further.

[Tina_gm]

jesseM- The progression condition you are speaking about happens I believe for a number of reasons. One of them is because of our S/O's. It is you guys who ask that things be taken slowly. It is among the veteran members and GG's most talked about advice. So in a sense, the progression is asked for.

Self acceptance is what I believe is the biggest part of progression. CDers typically do not merely wake up one morning and think, I am ok with this, I am going to stop denying it and repressing it and be ok with it all. it is a lifelong process. Because of the years spent struggling to stop it, denying it, repressing it, we don't learn exactly where we are with it all until we begin the process of self acceptance.

As some of the veterans of many many years of CDing will be able to state, (and some of the GG's here who are partners with them), there can and is often a point in which they reach where they have come to a full acceptance of themselves and have reached a point in which they basically do what they want as much as they want, and the progression ceases. Most may never reach that point due to any number of reasons which their life gives them, so progression may always be seen throughout their lives at a slow pace.

It was explained to me by a gender therapist that transgender is an umbrella term that covers any gender variant behavior or feelings. Of course if a guy dresses up on Halloween on a dare or whatever, eh, I am going to say he is not in the transgender category. For those who CD out of a true desire to, then they would fall under the transgender term. Being transgender or being under the umbrella of it does not mean one has to be entirely the opposite of their physical gender. In fact, one can still be primarily their birth gender in actions and emotions but still fall under the umbrella. Where I think the hang up is is through the media, which only brings up the transgender word when describing transsexuals and those who are or have transitioned.

[TinaZ]

... I treasure the days/weeks and hopefully years we have together. I don't base my happiness on our future growing old together; I base my happiness on the fun times we have together right now. .

I found this quote from JessM to be profound and very comforting. Thanks for sharing, Jess!

Thanks also to the beautiful people sharing some difficult stories and experiences. Honestly, reading them frightens me somewhat, for reasons most of us understand, but thought-provoking threads like this is part of the reason I treasure this site.

[JuliaM]

Kristyn,

I can share with you my experience with my wife. I came out to her late last fall. We were already having relationship issues and my confession to crossdressing didn't' help. At that point, I was prepared to be single and alone, as I felt (and feel) that I don't want to be tied down in a relationship where I cannot be myself. With my therapist, I confirmed that my CDing may be a precursor to further exploration of gender identity and sexuality. Vowing never to lie to my wife about Julia again, I have been 100% honest and upfront. She has responded with nothing but love and compassion. I'm not going to lie and say that our passion hasn't taken a hit - we are more friends than lovers these days. She will always be in my life one way or another and is my best friend. It helps that I've known her for so long (28+ years) - her reaction last fall was one of wow, that makes a lot of sense!

I think you comment about where it will be in 5 years is honest. No relationship is guaranteed to be intact in the future, for whatever reason. You may progress to a point and stop, or keep going until full transition...its all ok! And you will need your wife's support 100% if you plan on staying together.

Julia

[PaulaQ]

CDs on this site are almost certainly at a much higher risk of needing to transition. The ideas "this is just a fetish" have been really discredited for TS women. Don't expect 'em to hold up to scientific scrutiny for y'all, either. Sorry.

I feel fairly certain there is a relationship biologically between a CD and a TS, and probably there are biological reasons many don't transition. We don't know what they are though, nor how to tell someone's fortune - are they just a CD or a TS?

It may be cold comfort, but no one can offer others assurance about any future outcome for anything. If you base your marriage on that, you set yourself up for disappointment.