Can Clothing have Gender?

[Lucy_Bella]

Yes clothing can be assigned to a gender but could the clothing its self have a gender? I don't think so..

Popular reply " GG's wear pants made for men" Does that GG wear those pants to express a desire to feel masculine? Or does she wear them for comfort or maybe even as a form of protection..? Clothing has a purpose like protection and it can also be used in sex appeal for making a gender more attractive or appealing for most it's not the wrapper but whats inside although the wrapper sure can be misleading sometimes..

Point is, Cross Dressing is not always a gender issue .. Some x dress to express the desire to be that gender while others find it a fetish and then there are those who use the x dressing for comfort or protection ... So how can all cross dressers be related to being trans gender?

Just read another thread that suggest it is and I didn't want to high jack it...Thoughts?

[Ashley Wray]

I don't believe clothing can and believe all cross dressers are not equal it seems to be a broad spectrum of circumstances that set us apart. Here is part of the definition of transgendered from wiki.

Transgender is the state of one's gender identity (self-identification as woman, man, neither or both) or gender expression not matching one's assigned sex (identification by others as male, female or intersex based on physical/genetic sex).[1] Transgender is independent of sexual orientation; transgender people may identify as heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, polysexual, or asexual; some may consider conventional sexual orientation labels inadequate or inapplicable to them. The definition of transgender includes:

"Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these."[2]
"People who were assigned a sex, usually at birth and based on their genitals, but who feel that this is a false or incomplete description of themselves."[3]
"Non-identification with, or non-presentation as, the sex (and assumed gender) one was assigned at birth."[4]
A transgender individual may have characteristics that are normally associated with a particular gender, identify elsewhere on the traditional gender continuum, or exist outside of it as other, agender, genderqueer, or third gender. Transgender people may also identify as bigender or along several places on either the traditional transgender continuum or the more encompassing continuums that have been developed in response to recent, significantly more detailed studies.[5] Furthermore, many transgender people experience a period of identity development that includes better understanding one's self-image, self-reflection, and self-expression. More specifically, the degree to which individuals feel genuine, authentic, and comfortable within their external appearance and accept their genuine identity is referred to as transgender congruence.[6]

This seems to cover alot of bases so yes in my opinion most who crossdress for various reasons may still fall in the transgendered category. But as you can see several variations that my be involved.

[Marcelle]

Hi Lucy,

Quick answer . . . no . . . IMHO clothing cannot have a gender. It can be assigned a gender based on societal interpretation (dresses for girls / suits are for boys) but have its own gender? Not likely. At work I wear the same combat fatigues that women wear with no differentiation between the two sexes.

Because clothing does not have a gender does that mean cross dressers are not transgender? Well if you take the literal definition as provided by Ashley, dressing as the opposite gender implies some level of transgender. However, I do get your point that if you are dressing solely for sexual gratification, have no desire to be seen by others dressed, it is private and when finished you pack it away until the next time the urge takes you then, I guess you could make that argument. Unfortunately I cannot speak to that as I dress for a totally different reason. It is not sexual but something which feels right the same way dressing as a guy feels right . . . it is not the clothes but the experience in my case. So as much as I hate labels I would have to put my feet in the TG camp even though I am a CDer.

Hugs

Isha

[Kate Simmons]

Some like the feel of the clothes. For myself it has always been about using the clothing to get in touch with my feelings. In turn those feelings help me to portray the image I'm trying to present. Kind of a feed back/feed forward process. Essentially you become the image.

[Wildaboutheels]

"Point is, Cross Dressing is not always a gender issue"

Well maybe to you it's not.^^^

But to all that water here and simply can't/won't/refuse to READ responses from others it IS. But viewing the world with blinders on will eventually lead to big trouble.

And no matter how many CDers insist that we can't ever know what we will become/do with our CDing in the future, won't make it true.

It IS possible to know oneself especially if one has had 50, 60 or 70 years to figure it out.

[Michelle789]

Clothing is an inanimate object, and thus cannot have a gender. Items of clothing can be assigned a gender based on the type of garment or the material it's made or the way it's cut. Skirts, dresses, and heels are assigned female. Women's tops and pants are often cut differently, and may have different patterns, or made out of different material, than men's tops and pants.

When society assigns a gender, it's completely arbitrary and socially constructed. Once upon a time, only men could wear pants. Now women wear pants. What designs or cuts or considered to be masculine or feminine is solely decided by society to be such.

Clothing can be worn for comfort, to participate in certain activities, or to reflect a sense of who you are on the inside on your outside. Clothing can make a fashion statement, can be worn for art or to communicate a message. The clothes you choose to wear reflect a part of who you are on the inside, and do not define you.

The actual clothing itself does not have a gender.

[AllieSF]

This is an age old debate here. According to most professionals "transgender" is an umbrella term to include everyone from panty and hose wearers all the way up to and including post op transsexuals. That is the definition used by this site. There are many here who refuse to accept that site definition and will always argue their contrary their point of view. Is one more correct from the other? It all depends on who you talk to. So, if you want to debate the definition as put forward by this site, than argue away. Clothes are clothes. In some languages the word clothes is feminine, like in Spanish, la ropa. However, contrary to the general term some Spanish words for specific items clothing, like pants = los pantalones., are masculine.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I doubt anyone here would crossdress if clothing wasn't linked to gender so show, but this doesn't automatically link the crossdresser to gender dysphoria anymore than me wearing men's jeans does.

My H crossdresses for sexual reasons. He wear typically sexy women's clothing purely because women wear them. He gets off on a fantasy, nothing more. He has no female 'side'.

[Lucy_Bella]

This is an age old debate here. According to most professionals "transgender" is an umbrella term to include everyone from panty and hose wearers all the way up to and including post op transsexuals. That is the definition used by this site.

Actually Professionals use the term Trans Gender as a reason for some forms of X-dressing and they are very specific about those forms that can also range from panty and hose wearers.. To be specific in these terms that fall under the term ( not the umbrella and people tend to mix the two) Transgender is a form of Gender Identity ( originated but not coined by a T.S.) or being in touch with you female side if being a mtf dresser..

[Gretchen_To_Be]

Clothing is associated with gender, IMO, though as an inanimate object it can't itself have a gender. It's the illicit thrill of wearing women's clothing that I enjoy. You've seen the "Homme Mystere" line of lingerie, bras, & panties designed for men. While I welcome the lines blurring with such initiatives, I would never purchase those items. I want women's clothing, designed specifically for women, thank you. Otherwise what's the point? I actually would dread the day that all men are free to wear hose, heels, and skirts, because then it would cease to be taboo. I suppose if we ever do evolve to that point, there will be other gender-specific accoutrements to give future crossdressers their fix.

[noeleena]

Hi.

So after a long time of living as said 50 to 70 years of age maybe to figure our selfs out ,
i knew at age 10 what i was and knew what i would be years later on, part of that if not most was being born in the way i was ,

Do you buy clothes to fit you or not the shape will denote to whom they will fit , if say i brought a males shirt to fit my size they would not fit because theres no room for my breasts and would be to tight yet the same size for women will fit me as they are made to account for womens size shape with in reason of my details given ,

As a kid boys longs would not fit me or shorts thier shape was all wrong no wonder i .....Totaly ...HATED ..... Boys clothes and mens were undescribable total hate, i refused to buy them , hated mens shops as well , i was trapped no wonder i was shut down and did not express myself, you know was years later i began to understand why ,

You wont see our Navy personal , men wearing our clothes they fit us not men our clothes are very ( pacific cant spell it ) for us and thats how it should be we are females after all.

And iv thought about this. i dont ,,,,,,wont,,,,,, to look like a male ever or dress as like one you all know my thoughts on that and why , i may not make a good looking woman. at the ....least.....i am one , i doubt some here will understand , what it does to me ,

i know i wear our Bands Uniform and been told i look rather smart, yet i still struggle with it,
.................................................. .................................................. ..............
I know why some i knew took thier own lives i know how bloody ,,,,HARD,,, it is , just coping with how we are born , yea well okay ......

...noeleena...

[Katey888]

Noeleena... do you have any baton twirling majorettes in your band? (I'll bet not...) Now THAT would be a band uniform I could get into...

Lucy - I always enjoy your posts - it is good that you keep reminding everyone of the alternate and totally valid perspectives that exist within our community...

We would all say that clothing doesn't have gender - some of this might be related to our language which doesn't express gender particularly well or often, but I'd agree that clothing per se does not exhibit a gender. And I also disagree with some of the comments that have been made about clothing being of a particular nature - sometimes we forget that we all look at clothing as a snapshot in fashion 'time' and in the context of what fashion is today... clothing fashions change, and what is perceived as masculine or feminine also changes...

As to the old chestnut of gender and Cding - your question was "So how can all cross dressers be related to being trans gender?" - I don't believe they necessarily are because the term "crossdresser" (as we know from bitter experience here) is too broad a term to be really useful... it's like someone asking you what car you drive and you say "It's a two-wheel drive vehicle with auto transmission.."

Probably transgender isn't much better - but I do believe a significant (but not majority) portion of CDers are TG, and that TG is also a very broad and complex mosaic...

What a funny, weird and wonderful lot we are...

Katey x

[donnalee]

Clothing differences between male & female are a product of societal expectations and training (formal or otherwise). Defined as at birth, women have been able to overcome these over a relatively short period of time ~ 150 years. Men have lagged significantly behind, likely as they are seen as being the dominant sex and must be weird or in some way perverted to want to do so. Eventually it won't matter, as brains have become more important than brawn in society (always have been, but that realization has taken a very long time to sink in). I have high hopes for the future, but may not be around long enough to see it.

(Written on my 30th annual 39th birthday)

[NicoleScott]

No, clothing cannot have a gender. Just ships, and countries, and everything French.

The debate rages on as to whether identity OR expression is required to be TG. Some people believe that it is identity AND expression.

If you are in the "AND" camp: You see what is obviously a man in women's clothing. Are you seeing a TG? You can't know unless you ask "why the women's clothes, dude?" and get an answer.
- I dress to express my internal feminine identity.
- I'm a guy who dresses for sexual pleasure (but do no sexual activity when in public).

Makes no sense.