Owning your man card

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

I figured I would let loose with another Isha musing. I'll try to keep it short . . . okay I'll try

Before I begin a little background to the title before anyone gets confused. I took an Isha day yesterday and had lunch with some friends, three GGs and one guy who knows about Isha but has never met her. I was running late when I got to the restaurant as I missed my one bus connection . . . for the record, running in a dress and sandals is not wise if you are not paying attention - the speed of running, prevailing winds and loose dress material - well let's just say a few people at the bus stop know more about the colour of my underwear than I wish they did . Anyway back on point . . . I got to the restaurant and it was a bit awkward as I normally hug my GG friends so when I got around the table to my guy friend we just kind of froze . . . so I held out my hand, he smiled (more relieved I didn't lay a big girly hug on him I think ) and we shook hands. So lunch went fine and my GG friends had to get back to work but my guy friend stayed so we could chat a bit more. We went through the usual questions and then moved on to more standard conversations. During the conversation he laughingly said (this was not him being mean . . . just trying to be funny in his own way) "I guess you'll have to hand in your man card now". I just laughed and said . . . "Well I don't think I have it here in my purse but next time I'll be sure to bring it."

After he had left, I went about the rest of my day but thought about that. As CDers . . . are we obligated to hand in our "man card" or should we take greater ownership of it?

Now I approach this from the perspective of a guy who is married but you can look it from any direction (single, in a serious relationship, married, fully accepting SO, DADT . . . pick your poison sort to speak). As a married dude, I prefer to believe we (CDers) need to "own" our man card as much as possible. Now I don't mean taking up chewing tobacco, monster truck driving or getting into bar fights (no insult meant to tobacco chewing, monster truck driving pugilists) . I am talking about being a good and decent man in your relationships and/or pursuit of your relationships. I read a lot of posts about "My wife knows what now?" and the advice is all good "take is slow . . . communicate . . . set boundaries . . . did I mention communicate?" However the one thing that tends to get overlooked is . . . "Continue being a man, a dude, a bloke, a husband, a father, etc. etc." When I came out to my wife, one of her greatest fears was that "guy me" would disappear and she would be left with a GF who wants to paint nails, do her hair and have pillow fights (well okay . . . nothing wrong with a good pillow fight now and then ), but you get the picture. So I went to great lengths to show her that the man she married is still there for her in all the ways I was before. In essence I took ownership of my "man card". I dress because Isha is a part of my core identity and I wish to harmonize coexistence. My wife has fully accepted that as "boy me" still exists. Now I am not just talking about grabbing my tool belt and fixing a leaky pipe. While that is part of it, I am there for her to support her, care for her and that doesn't change even when I am dressed as Isha . . . I am still her husband and the man she married (her words not mine).

A lot of us engage in CDing for our own private and personal reasons. One person's fantasy can be another person's reality. However, IMHO loosing sight of the fact you are a man/husband/father even when dressed and trying to convince your SO that you are just one of the girls and let's go shopping can cause problems and fear for your SO. Yes, if she is into that (and I am sure there are lots of SOs who are) then all the better for you. However, if she isn't that is going to raise a lot of alarm bells - my husband, boyfriend, guy is being absorbed by the girl before me - which could potentially cause problems in your relationship.

Now before anyone says "Hey Isha what about those who wish to be women?" In that case then you are likely more leaning toward TS or are TS and as such, owning the man card is not applicable as you are trying to align your external self (male/female) with your internal gender (female/male).

So my take on this is that rather than handing in my "man card" I am going to have it laminated and put it right behind my driver's licence both in my wallet and my purse.

Hugs

Isha

[Jorja]

In case anyone needs one, I have a man card that I laminated and tossed into a drawer some 40 years ago. You are welcome to it as I have not needed it once in all these years.

[Emi_]

I have one of those special permits that lets me drive certain outfits. It takes a lot of extra study and the test is brutal, but it's worth the effort for the special stamp on my man card. Next year I'm going to try for my stiletto certification too!

[hope springs]

An interesting dilemma. Of course you keep the man card. Our cards just happen to have a few asteriks and an explanatory note on the reverse side.

My career is construction. Every day at lunch im treated to tales of what the best feed for a deer feeder is, the nuances of small block chevy engines, best places to ride your harley... you get the idea. But i feel comfortable in those discussions as well as fingernail painting techniques, skirt types and panty cut styles. Never thought about my man card, but now that you mention it, i will still be holding onto it

[Jonithan]

I'm keeping mine. It's too important to me. It identifies me. Who I am....

....mine just has Wo scrawled on it.

joni

P.S. Nice post as usual

[RADER]

I still have my "Man Card"; So I can drive a big dump truck, But I still
under dress and wear fem jeans. Getting in an out of a big truck in a skirt
is not what I care to do.
You are correct, I found that even with a Wife that was OK with my dressing,
I still had the "Job" of being the "MAN" she married, I enjoyed doing so, and
it worked well for many years. I bet she is looking down on me wondering
what I will wear next; Since I lost her fashion sense.
Rader

[Ricki Dove]

I am going to hang to my man card although I am really enjoying discovering my CD side. I just started getting to cross dressing less than two months ago. The more I do it the more I like it. I should have started a long time ago.

[Rachel_B]

I don't remember being issued a man card... even when I joined the military. I have never enjoyed watching or playing sports that much, video games is the sport I play. Right now my job is a cashier which you see more women then men, I never wanted to work in any of those "manly" jobs. Nonetheless, if I was given one; I would first have to find it and then I would probably get it laminated and put it where I would need it in case of emergencies.

[Kris Avery]

Sounds like a card issued to those who are insecure men.
I would have asked to see his... ha ha ha

[Martha G]

Isha,

I always enjoy reading your musings! Just love 'em.

I'm a guy who enjoys wearing female attire at times. Nothing else.

Don't need a man card!

However, like method actors, I like to become the person I am dressed as. So like to perfect my dress, my mannerisms and voice.

[Teresa]

Yes Isha my man card will never get handed in ! On the reverse it says this card belongs to my husband, my dad and my grandpa and strangely it has my name on it and no reference to Teresa ! That one is tucked well out of sight, but I'm not saying where and gets used for special occasions !!
I love your stories of being out thanks for sharing them again !

[natalie edwards]

Hi Isha,
Been wanting to say this for awhile. Whenever I read any of your threads I hear Carrie Bradshaw's voice! You know Sarah Jessica Parker, sex in the city. Your insight and writing style is great! So enlightening and entertaining.
BTW, i wholeheartedly agree about the man card!

[ReineD]

However, IMHO loosing sight of the fact you are a man/husband/father even when dressed and trying to convince your SO that you are just one of the girls and let's go shopping can cause problems and fear for your SO. Yes, if she is into that (and I am sure there are lots of SOs who are) then all the better for you. However, if she isn't that is going to raise a lot of alarm bells - my husband, boyfriend, guy is being absorbed by the girl before me - which could potentially cause problems in your relationship.

Beautifully said, Isha! It's a point that should be made more often if someone is a crossdresser.

Now before anyone says "Hey Isha what about those who wish to be women?" In that case then you are likely more leaning toward TS or are TS and as such, owning the man card is not applicable as you are trying to align your external self (male/female) with your internal gender (female/male).

Exactly. There's a distinct difference between the two (CD and TS or even "wish to be TS") for the vast majority of the members here (although some individuals do straddle the line like my SO). But some transitioning or transitioned transsexuals like to come on this side of the forum and say outright they're not interested in having a man card, which is certainly true for them. Trouble is, they don't identify themselves as TS, there's no "TS" ID under their forum name (like I have "GG" under mine), therefore it is confusing for both the newer CDers and GGs who don't yet know the forum members. They wonder if only some CDers feel the way you do about being a man, or 50%, or most of them, etc. This makes it difficult to develop a general sense of who makes up this community, it can make it difficult for a newer CD who comes here looking for self-definitions, and it blurs the lines.

Maybe the transsexuals who do this like to blur the lines, maybe they would have everyone believe there is no difference between crossdressers and TSs although I cannot understand why they would want this, other than perhaps their own inability to understand the differences between the two. Or maybe they like to prove to CDers and others reading the CD threads like GGs that they are women, although I fail to understand why they might feel this necessary. It just feels as an attempt to come off as being somehow superior although I'm sure this is not the intent.

[Amy Fakley]

I never have fit in, and at this point, I've just accepted that I damn well never will.

The whole idea ... that others could revoke my permission to be myself. Well, if there was a sanctioning authority for "manliness", I'd be happy to picket out front and burn my freakin' "man-card" at this point in my life! The whole mindset irks me to be completely honest.

I can be a good father without also needing to shoot guns and "blow sh*t up".
I can be a loving, caring husband without needing to spend every Sunday afternoon shouting at football on the teevee, and guzzling beer.
I can change the brake pads on my pickup truck and still get cleaned up and go shopping with my wife afterwards.
While we're out shopping I can buy things at Home Depot and Sephora, if want to.

If that crosses off items from someone's "list of manliness", well you know. oooookkkkaaaaay.
I am a crossdressing hippie music nerd ... is that really such a surprise?

It's just another brain-dead stereotype, y'know?
Why bother expending any energy trying to live up to bogus expectations in the first place?

Not that you shouldn't still be there for your wife in all the ways she needs you to be. I certainly am, and have found that I can be even better at that, by not worrying so much about how I come off to others, and just be myself.

My "man-card" always felt more like a learner's permit anyhow, ROFL.
great post, Isha :-)

[GretchenJ]

Hello my dear friend up North!

Another great post, for me on a personal level your greatest post of all !

As a married dude, I prefer to believe we (CDers) need to "own" our man card as much as possible.

When I came out to my wife, one of her greatest fears was that "guy me" would disappear and she would be left with a GF who wants to paint nails, do her hair and have pillow fights

So I went to great lengths to show her that the man she married is still there for her in all the ways I was before. In essence I took ownership of my "man card". I dress because Isha is a part of my core identity and I wish to harmonize coexistence.

Boy, where to begin. You are so right on this it is truly scary. This is the number one reason that I think that my dressing is a secret to only me and you all. Even in a perfect scenario, if my wife was truly on board with everything, I still would not dress in her presence because TO ME, and maybe not even to her, my man card would be somewhat invalidated.

So as part of the deal , of my secret, is if and when I get the opportunity to venture out as Gretchen, that I enjoy myself to the fullest, while keeping my fidelity (which I take very seriously). In return, when I arrive home, and the clothes and the wigs goes away, I am fully committed and focused at the job at hand, of being the best husband and father I can possibly be.

There are two different sides to me which are distinct and very separate ( physically, but not so much internally) but keeping them separate helps me in my acceptance of it. Of course , everyone's experience here are totally different than mine, but that is just an insight to my psyche

Hugs
Gretch

[ReineD]

I can be a good father without also needing to shoot guns and "blow sh*t up".
I can be a loving, caring husband without needing to spend every Sunday afternoon shouting at football on the teevee, and guzzling beer.
I can change the brake pads on my pickup truck and still get cleaned up and go shopping with my wife afterwards.
While we're out shopping I can buy things at Home Depot and Sephora, if want to.

If that crosses off items from someone's "list of manliness", ...

The men that I know do fit your description, save for buying makeup at Sephora. lol. I don't really know any men who spend their time shooting things up, watching sports and drinking beer, who can only talk about cars, etc. I think this describes a very narrow stereotype that only exists on television and in movies (Duck Dynasty?).

But I do know some men who aren't happy in their marriages and who use all manner of excuses to not be there, whether this is keeping themselves busy on weekends with activities that don't include their wives, or watching a lot of TV, or working a lot at the office. And I know some unhappy women who spend as little time as possible with their husbands. I guess this sort of thing goes both ways.

[Anna H]

Trouble is, they don't identify themselves as TS, there's no "TS" ID under their forum name (like I have "GG" under mine), therefore it is confusing for both the newer CDers and GGs who don't yet know the forum members.

I Love and Adore this place, but the one thing that is missing is a place
for a bit more detailed info on the profile.

I generally hate the concept of a profile, personally, and avoid them any
other place on the internet. But this a community that does truly matter
to me. So I like to know about others and if they're interested, I like
for them to see what we may have in common.



And....I'm very much like Amy.

If i were never viewed as a guy again it'd be fine with me. But that doesn't mean
I think I'm a girl. IMO...that's not possible for me. I just never did really relate
to guys very much. Sure, I can play the part, but that's because it was drilled into
me without my realizing what was happening.

Nothing against macho-men, but i just don't fit in naturally with them. I'm missing
something that "normal" guys have, I guess.

This dressing isn't a thing I can put aside easily. I couldn't explain it, but if the
difference it makes can be reasonably called "feeling right", then it's natural to
want to "feel right" always? ...or at least as often as is possible.

Nice topic, Isha! There's lots to think about. I could go on for hours...lol!

[grace7777]

I am finding that I have no use for a man card anymore.

[ArleneRaquel]

Man card, what are they ?

[SO1Adam12]

Although I don't foresee it happening, I'm pretty certain it would be the end of our relationship. I like him to open doors for me, hold my chair, help me with my coat, take my arm, lead me through a crowd, makes sure he is on the outter side of the side walk, he even pulls my seatbelt for me when we get into the car, all of those old fashioned guy things that seem to be slipping away. It's one of my favorite things when we are out is when I feel like he is taking care of me.

[Melissa18]

Hi Isha,
Another thought provoking thread, thank you.
As you lovelly ladies are the only people that I'm out too, my man card is used as my shield against discovery of my true self. At this stage of my life I just wish I could get a man card that has a couple of imperfections so that Adelaide could be truer to herself!

Hugs Adelaide,

[Holly]

I exchanged my "man card" a number of years ago for a person card. It affords me the freedom to relate to my wife free of constraints placed upon us by gender expectations. I can fix her car and her hair with equal adeptness. She can do yard work and my nails with equal efficiency. To SO1Adam12 I understand your point and it is one that should be pondered by any couple in a committed relationship. Doing things for our partners because they like them is something we should all be doing. But I will let you in on a little secret... sometimes my wife holds a door for me and you know what? I like it too. Being freed from traditionally imposed gender roles should give us the ability to find MORE ways to please one another, not fewer. Carry on.

[Donnagirl]

Hi Isha,

You're timing is incredible... This dovetails into conversations I've had with the wife and a friend on the forum over the past few days which could pretty much be summed up as ongoing validation of your man card.

Donna has had the opportunities to develop quite incredibly over the past few months, accelerating rapidly over the last few weeks. Not only were the fears overcome, but probably the last few 'nevers' either dismissed or sorely tested. Those nevers you promise your self, never join the forum, never post a picture, never wear a wig and make up, never go out in public... Well another biggie was left in my dust this weekend.

With the wife's (partial) blessing, the boys saw me dressed this weekend, both Friday and Saturday evening. After an initial commentary, they really don't seem to care. They even got to see and chat with my friend over FaceTime who was also dressed. This now removes the last inhibitor at home and, at very least, opens up my house for me to dress when and how I please... This caused me some concerns and provoked equal concern from the wife. We are back to the 'were will this all end?' Am I about to hand in my man card? Will I dress everyday after work? Will I dress at work? Do I need male attire any more? Do I need male bits anymore??? Ok so a few long bows were drawn, but I certainly understand her fears... Too many times the status quo turns out to have been a temporary holding pattern only.

Now I'm as positive as can be that I've reached a manageable plateau and I don't foresee any further escalation, but am I saying never? Is all this going to be another 'never' left by the wayside? How tenuous is my grip on my man card? If I can not convince myself, or if at lease I harbour a nagging doubt that this is as far as I go, how can I convince anyone else?

Going to be an interesting next few months. There are plans for several parties and trips out where Donna will be attending, including a work party... I could even be a bridesmaid at a colleagues wedding!!!! OMG!!!

Donna ����������

[SO1Adam12]

Holly, I get that...but I also know that for me, there are circumstances when I am happy to take care of him, but I'm not (yet) in a place where I am ready for a public outing. I don't think he is either. He has actually (gently) admonished me for not letting him open a door for me so my guess is, in this particular situation, we are on the same page.

[Eringirl]

Great post Isha! While I have given this notion a great deal of thought over the years, I have not taken the opportunity to articulate my musings. So here goes.

I still have my man card, and always will. If nothing else, I owe that to my wife as a husband and to our children as a father. That is what the need, and as a husband and father, that is my responsibility. Now, that being said, it doesn't mean that I completely abandoned Erin, I don't. She is part of who I am and I try to find a compromise as to what I can do daily to still feel Erin's presence which for me is calming and, and still be what my wife and children need/want. I think I am getting there. Certainly much happier with this tactic and family is happy that I can still be there for them, and be happier myself. I am not sure this is making sense, so I may need to take some more time to think about how to verbalized my thoughts.

Thanks for the thread Isha, and to all the other girls for their comments.

Erin