Not your average passing thread...

[Candice Mae]

Just some thoughts I had on the drive home today, that I made in to a question.

I know its not the goal of every CDer on here, but I would say it is the goal of the majority of the dressers on here to pass as a woman or at least blend. You all want to obtain this ability to pass but yet you don't want to present as a woman full time. The closer or better you get at passing the less you look like what society considers a man. Why go through all the trouble and effort to pass when it has no real gain to your life, and in the end you look like a feminine man and try and hide it from family, friends, and the general public?

[CynthiaD]

The changes you make to look passable don't have to be permanent. Often it's just a matter of the right wig or the right makeup.

[Paula_56]

In the transgender community, the use of the terms “pass” or “passing” is controversial.

What’s ironic is that we all use it in one form or another, but camouflage it with politically correct language. What’s even more interesting is if you ever go to Reddit’s Transpassing or any one of the other related sub Reddits you would discover that the younger members of our community didn’t get the memo and talk about passing all day long.

I prefer to use the phrase “present as a woman." If I am looking for a comment, I’ll ask how was my presentation. With all that being said, we all have some very definite opinions about the issue. Before you click the comment link below, let me say a few things first.

What made the subject very clear and even defined for me the why we do this was something my wife said to me a few weeks ago. Having recently traded in her shoulder length hair for a pixie cut, she was still getting comfortable with such short hair. While we were getting ready for a Saturday morning of fellowship and brush-cutting at the church picnic grove, she put on blue jeans and a flannel shirt.

One look in the mirror brought about a shriek. Not expecting this response, I looked over and asked, “What’s the matter, honey?”

“Oh my gosh, I look like a man!” she blustered as she headed for her closet.

After 29 years of marriage, I came back with a practiced response that I learned before my first anniversary, “Sweetheart, you look beautiful.”

As she positioned herself in front of the mirror, this time in a jean skirt and scalloped linen top, she breathed a sigh of relief, “There, I at least want the people to know that I am a woman!”

Wow, Bam, Bazinga! Yes read it again ladies: “There, I at least want the people to know that I am a woman!”

Transgender women just want the human race to know that we are women!

The hair, the makeup, clothes, lingerie, voice lessons, and of course, shoes are all gestures to the world that we are women. Just like the jean skirt and scalloped top that was nowhere near as practical for clearing brush that morning, they served a vital purpose for my wife; they signaled the world that she was a woman and validated her identity. It brought her appearance more in line with who she felt she was.

Just like the cowboy who wears his hat, jeans and boots in the airport, he is saying to the world, "These clothes reflect who I am, a culture that I belong to, a philosophy that I adhere too, and a vocation that I perform."

The banker, the rocker, and the professor --- they all send a message with their clothes.
That is the reason we do this --- we want people to know who we are. That deep down, under the five o'clock shadow and receding hairline, we all have to some varying extent the hearts and souls of feminine beings.

That’s why we so often ask about passing, presenting or how do I look? It is the reason why in the transgender community, we take more pictures than most tourists. Ever notice that you are the only person at the family reunion that knows exactly how to work the self-timer on the camera! We want acknowledgement, we are sending radio waves out into the Universe and listening, searching, longing to know if we are being heard.

With that in mind, instead of asking “Do I pass?”

Let’s try asking, "Did you get my message?"

"Yes, Ma'am."

[Emi_]

I do it because it is satisfying to me. Other peoples opinions about what I look like don't mean a hang to me.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Candice, When I dress I like to be able to see a lady in the mirror looking back with a lovely smile.

[Anna H]

Me personally...I'm never been happy with being male. I cringe inside
even referring to myself as such.

But, what are the alternatives. I'm never going to be the opposite.
It's not possible (for me).

What i can do (and very happily!) is try to appear as either/or.

The point is that if i'm mistaken for female...and it happens
fairly often...then it makes me happy for some odd reason. I think
it's because I was momentarily viewed as *not* the male that i am.

Why that matters to me is that it was an honest mistake. I didn't
fool anyone by dressing up a certain way or with certain goals in
mind.

I can't pass enough to be seen as female always, but even if I did
dress with that purpose in mind, I'd fail much more easily. It'd
be very clear that I was a CD...and the "ma'am's" that I may get
are just someone saying "yeah...i'll be polite and go along with
ya darling!...and when you're out the door we'll all have a good
laugh".

I think that a real GD problem makes it a bit different from those
who happily switch back & forth between guy and girl modes. The
fact that i get truly and honestly mistaken for female sometimes
makes me happy that i'm so easily separated from the "guy" that
I really am.

I've always been uncomfortable with being male. I couldn't
change that well enough to ever be satisfied. I do the most
reasonable thing I can...just try to be somewhere in the middle.
They don't get confrontational if it's their own mistake. But
if I try to fool them...who knows.

I'm pretty much comfortable, happy and in a good mood always.
I do gain something from it.

[Kate Simmons]

I have my own "standards of excellence" when it comes to dressing, so I don't feel I have to comply with someone else's or pass muster according to their ideas.

[Eringirl]

Hi Candice,
For me, and I suspect other women here (yes, women), it is a bit complicated. I would like to present as a woman 24/7, but family and other issues preclude that at this time. However, when I do "dress", it is to become on the exterior what I am on the interior. To pass as a woman doing everyday, mundane things, such as groceries, errands, work etc, is what I strive for. For me, it is not about standing out, but a statement on "just being". When I see Erin in the mirror, my brain goes into a state of equilibrium, with the external now matching the internal.

When I am not presenting as Erin, I still have cues to help me out, such as long nails with clear polish, polish on my toes, under dressings, shaved legs and chest, you get the picture. So, at the very least, when I am at work, I look down at the keyboard and see my hands and nails and that is enough to remind my brain that I am Erin and that gets me through until I can fully transform. But I still need to fully present, to get that full picture in my brain and lock it in. Just as someone doesn't choose to be gay, I didn't chose to be who or how I am, I just am, and this is what makes me, I think a better husbands and father as I am not depressed or angry all the time as I was pre Erin, and better able to concentrate on making those that matter to me happy.

So as I mentioned, for me, it is a little bit complicated.

Thanks for listening.

Erin

[Adriana Moretti]

I dont care about passing....just being the best me that I can .....and thats a boy in a dress....wait i hate dresses.....a guy in a skirt.....

[Lena]

Good points and I assume you are speaking from experience? The other day, my wife and I were at Lowes. A family went by that caught our eyes. There was a woman, a child and a ? Still to this day, we couldn't decide if it was a MTF or FTM or just a totally effeminate guy. There was slight facial hair, slender build, feminine clothing and shaved legs.


It was a wake up call because, I don't want to be that. (Not because it's bad, it just brings too much attention.)

My problem with hormones really screws with me somedays. Sometimes, I feel male and other times, not so much. I've always been attracted to and wore women's clothing in the closet but when stuff gets out of wack, it goes to a whole new level. I'm now on pills to prevent the creation of estrogen but when I forget to take the pills, things change including breast changes.

Anyway, I've rambled on for far too long to say "I get what you're saying. "

[LelaK]

Why go through all the trouble and effort to pass when it has no real gain to your life, and in the end you look like a feminine man []?

I don't try to pass. I want my appearance to please me. I would try to greatly improve my appearance in my own eyes if there were a fairly cheap and easy way to do it. For now I need to concentrate on finding a home.

[Rachael Leigh]

Candice I agree and it's made me wonder many times what is the point. So my goals now are looking my best when I do pictures, which until I own a wig again I won't do those for a bit. However some things I do are just because I like it shaving my body hair and that stuff not to look like a women but just to be me but yet I do still tend to hide that from family. So for me what is the point, I guess I still don't know but I seem happier when I'm dressing on a regular basis

[Felicia Dee]

If the end goal is to pass or blend as a woman and therefore utterly shed the male self for whatever reason a person chooses to do that -- even if only occasionally... if it allows that person an opportunity to tap into this other aspect of themselves that they normally cannot in the male personae, wouldn't that be enough of a "real gain to your life" to continue such an activity???

I think so.

[kimdl93]

Your question states that there is no real gain. That is the flaw in the logic, that behavior is necessarily for gain or profit, beyond self satisfaction. The second is that one must hide if successful. So do, some don't.

[TinaZ]

Lots of wonderful answers here. Paula's response (post #3) is particularly wise. Thanks, everyone!

I'll agree with those who say dressing itself is not a means to an end for me. For instance, today I tried a new technique with eye shadow and as I was doing so, I mindfully told myself to relish the moment. I was learning a new, womanly thing. I appreciate that unique opportunity. While going out and blending in would be great, it might never be in my cards. But I still celebrate my time as Tina regardless. Hope that made sense.

[Teresa]

Candice,
I'm finding most of the time that the clothes satisfy my inner feelings, I'm now treating wig and make up as a special treat if I decide to venture out. I feel that if I want to pass I can, if I choose to make the effort !
So am I just content to be a guy in a dress or just doing what a day to day housewife would do ? All I know is it's the least stressful way I have at the moment with the level of acceptance I have.

[natcrys]

I would say.. being satisfied with how I present myself and having fun doing what I do, whether I am going or staying in, is the most important thing for me.

So it depends on what you exactly mean by "to gain".

Also, I have had my hair long for about 6 years now.. and nobody's ever thought of me as feminine because of that.

The rest of what I do to transform into Tassia is non-permanent. And even the hair can be cut off! (Yikes, that sounded scary!)

[Marcelle]

Hi Candice. I am not sure if there has to be an end state for me. In my case is about coexistence and getting there is all part of the journey. I will never, never, never pass in a million years regardless of what steps I take non permanent (make-up, wig) and permanent (laser hair removal). I can blend to a certain degree but I never survive first contact. When I dress as a guy I look like a guy even with 60 percent of my beard gone, body shaved and eyebrows thinned. I don't believe you have to present as a woman full time as a marker of endgame . . . we all have goals and they are not the same. For me it is about balance between boy and girl . . . if I wanted to be girl full time then I would be more likely TS vice CD . . . just saying.

What do I gain? Self satisfaction, the ability to enjoy life to its fullest and the love of a great woman (my wife).

Hugs

Isha

[noeleena]

Hi,

See if i can get this right,

as said , I wont people to know im a woman . so that was about clothes and what your S O was wearing or in this case she changed hers ,

The ? i have does your S O look like a man or is this a perception she had when looking in the mirror ,

Do those at the meeting do they know her as a person , if so then what makes this difference ,of, i look like a male , how is she accepted as a normal female,

for my self because im well known im accepted as female and as a woman , a good number of reasons for that yet i know i dont look female enough to even think i,m good enough to look like a female ,

............ i wonder then how your S O would see me then.........


Would your S O be interested in answering my > ? that would be lovely if she would,

...noeleena...

[charlenesomeone]

I do it because it is satisfying to me. Other peoples opinions about what I look like don't mean a hang to me.

You said it perfect girl!!

[cdmorganashley]

i don't care to stand out to the point of drawing unwanted attention but beyond that i just desire to be able to be myself and not feel embarrassed or ashamed about it and that means being more and more fem more and more of the time... i figure there will be times i will want to look one way or another but as for a fixation on passing i don't think like that as i have a man's body and i am not looking at taking hormones that could hurt my health or having radical surgery which i don't have the money for and don't feel would be great for my health either... still i think i can take on an unconventionally fem male look that could be quite attractive if i keep working on it... still what is passable to one is not always passable to another so i am much more for finding a look that makes you feel yourself and happy about how you look and is not dependent upon the judgments of others--even though in reality it is always nice to be told you look good haha--i always think confidence looks good whatever you have on and even however your body looks -- so chew on that lol

[Jenniferathome]

Your question states that there is no real gain. That is the flaw in the logic, that behavior is necessarily for gain or profit, beyond self satisfaction. ....

THIS! I've often written that cross dressing and blending in is like screaming at the top of your lungs, "This is me!"... but without a sound. I think an additional flaw in your thinking is that one "becomes" a feminized man.

[maya1love]

What's wrong with looking like a feminine man? If that is what you are inside, why not show the world what you are?

[Cheryl T]

Firstly, "passing" is something that relatively few of us can ever hope to do. There are just so many "tells" that for most it's impractical to deceive yourself that you "pass" when you don't.
The majority try to "blend" in and be accepted as a woman in daily activities.
As to feminizing to look more womanly, there are many things that can be done without making physical changes and looking like Bruce Jenner and drawing the speculation that goes with it. Wigs, makeup techniques, proper padding or cinching, etc all can produce a very feminine appearance without any of it being permanent.

[Rhonda Jean]

I think Candice makes a good "food for thought" point. For simplicity, let's look at just one aspect of our lives. Our jobs. Many of us work in jobs where a feminine appearance would be a deterrent to upward movement in the company, if not threaten our employment prospects all together. Yet at the same time we may constantly push the envelope, trying to find that spot where we've enhanced our passability while not threatening our employment "too much".

Looking at the Boy Mode vs. Girl Mode pics, some can pull off looking completely male and absolutely transform into beautiful women. That is impressive! Most of us seek some middle ground. But what we see in the mirror as middle ground is probably not middle ground at all to the rest of the world. Lots of us get our brows done, have long hair, color our hair, keep our nails long, shave our bodies, have pierced ears. Especially in combination, that's a lot. Some of us try to justify it by telling ourselves that lots of guys wax their eyebrows or whatever, and that's true. It's when they start adding up that it gets more and more obvious. Add to that that you may choose your male clothes a little differently, too. Maybe even when your not in fem mode you wear short shorts and fem styled tops, bigger earrings, or nail polish. You tell yourself you're not crossdressing, but the world sees it differently.

I think it's safe to say that we all put a whole lot of effort into a small part of our lives, and that part of our lives is counterproductive to our "real" life. I'm certainly guilty of that.