Hatred, Bigotry, and how I was Assaulted. "Can I see your vagina?"

[Aprilrain]

It's not for me to judge Anne or how she chose to deal with these anti social Cretans. Thankfully the situation was diffused and Anne is ok.

[KC Samanatha]

Anne,
What a powerful story. You are very courageous to make a stand like that. Your narrative had me on the edge of my seat.
The silver lining is that the world is so more full of the "angels" then the jackholes. The words and temper of the jackholes is so hurtful tho.
Way to stay strong.

[stefan37]

Those of you that are criticizing or judging Anne for her actions should keep in mind a couple things. It was an agonizing process for her to accept herself for what she is. It took a tremendous amount of self fortitude to continue in the path she has embarked. She is living her daily life as her. Early transition is a brutal time. There is a lifetime of male socialization we need to drop, as we learn unfamiliar to us female socialization skills. Making it more difficult the majority of us learn those socializations from our male or our trans friends point of view. We tend to lack especially in the beginning female friends to help.

Unlike a part timer. We do not go out dressed to the nines in a group, or wear heavy makeup. That in itself opens us up to getting "clocked" and ridicule. In more drastic cases that means physical harm and possibly death. You endure this ridicule and at some point it pushes you over the edge and you lash out. Whether her response was appropriate or not, I wasn't there so I wouldn't know. Those that live as male the majority if the time cannot know what it is like to live as female after living so many years as male. There are many comfort zones we need to leave to live as our authentic selves.


The concept we should alter our behavior for the good of the community and how people will think of us is BS. The tg community especially the TS community is one I want no part of. It is highly opinionated, elitist, fractured, and god forbid your opinion or actions are contrary to the so called self appointed TS elite trans activists. Our best option to living an authentic life is to get through this n brutal transitory period, integrate into mainstream society and leave the trans community far behind. It is one reason we have so many TS members visit this forum for support during transition and after their physical transition is complete and they begin integrating into society. They leave the site never to return. I personally know 6 members that no longer log in.

So before you judge a TS's actions. Try living their life. You will certainly see how difficult and dangerous it is without altercations similar to want Anne experienced. Her experience is something all us TS experience at least once and in many cases multiple times. In some cases and geographical locations daily, at work, at play, and socially.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

That's exactly right Stef...

its breathtakingly arrogant for somebody to jump on the OP and second guess Anne.....

The sense of real danger and the possibilities of a bad outcome are real. Only an idiot would think otherwise...it is not a newsflash to a transitioning transsexual woman that she puts herself at risk.
it does not require a dissertation on the risks or preachy admonishment that somehow she is filled with testosterone rage or doesn't understand what she did.

this was a story about being your authentic self and being assaulted because of it... anne's reaction was in the moment, it was visceral... days later I am sure there is a relief that nothing terrible happened...

but here's the thing...you weren't there... you can't say S$$T
Just like people that have a moment where they can jump in front of a car to save a toddler or jump in freezing water to save a friend (or they don't) you have no fricking idea what you would do, you can say you know, but you don't.

also you can't presume this guy would have backed off... who is to say that anne walking away would not have resulted in a worse outcome...a hand on her back, "hey i'm talking to you" or stalked from afar and attacked later...anyone capable of mouthing off like that is capable of worse... there was no easy answer... I love the fantasy assumption that walking away from someone trying to hurt you will make them stop ...its ridiculous...

[Kathryn Martin]

.......and god forbid your opinion or actions are contrary to the so called self appointed TS elite trans activists. Our best option to living an authentic life is to get through this n brutal transitory period, integrate into mainstream society and leave the trans community far behind.

So before you judge a TS's actions. Try living their life. You will certainly see how difficult and dangerous it is without altercations similar to want Anne experienced. Her experience is something all us TS experience at least once and in many cases multiple times. In some cases and geographical locations daily, at work, at play, and socially.

Anne, I wasn't there, so I am not sure what would have done. I usually don't go to places where the potential for this kind of exposure exists. I know for certain that during transition my family and my friends were very afraid of something like this to happen. One of the most valuable lessons I learned from the women in my life (not trans-women) was that a woman will always be much more acutely aware of her surroundings and potential for violence. Having a rape and violence culture leaves marks especially on women even if they have not encountered such. In this sense your assertion that a GG would not find herself in such a situation is really not reality. Just swop out a few words and something like this is what GGs do experience and often.

Stefan, I agree with some of what you have said. However, you will find that there are no trans elitist activists on this forum. Most of them would tell something similar to what I said above. Moreover, if you are what you call a trans elitist (whatever the hell that means) you will find that those that are, are never under any circumstances activists, and for good reason. Activism does not match well with integration into the life we want or the society that we live in. If you would like to discuss this further please pm me so this thread doesn't get closed.

Living a TS life means that you attempt to cross the bridge that separates you from who you are as quickly as possible and begin living a normal life after that. It is that place during transition that is so difficult and often so dangerous. I disagree with you that what Anne experienced is something we experience quite often. The level of aggression Anne experienced is quite beyond anything that I have ever experienced. What we do experience is micro aggression. Unless we get beaten and raped... and that is something women have experienced since the beginning of time. Welcome to reality........

[Sara Jessica]

Great response to Rogina Anne, though I don't think she meant any offense. (Lord knows I could be wrong)

I don't think Rogina meant any offense either. It was simply looking at the other side of the coin, another way the situation COULD have been handled.

Escalating the situation didn't improve anyone's perception of TG individuals. The verbal assailant saw his position vindicated by the fact that the "tranny" he had called out turned out to indeed be a "tranny," and one who was looking for trouble.

I disagree. I hope that everyone who witnessed the exchange went home feeling a need for a shower, that they witnessed an utter waste of humanity in their immediate presence. Although discrimination still exists on many fronts, in this day and age, scenes like this are not very common so hopefully those witnesses have at least an ounce more empathy for what dangers still lurk out there for transgendered individuals.

Where I really disagree though is the statement that Anne was looking or trouble. One who is on the receiving end of such an assault is rarely the one looking for the trouble. Her reaction was simply one of a human being who was pushed a bit to far at that particular moment in time.

Larry, the answer to your question is simple. The 'manly men' CD's that come on this board and talk about how tough they are and what THEY would do in a given situation will NEVER stand up for an obvious tranny in public. From what I can tell, (from many comments on this board), doing such a thing would immediately out them to their buddies as a Nancy boy.

I'm not a particularly 'manly man' but as you know, I present as that gender most of the time. I can tell you that if I were witness to Anne's situation, I'd have likely intervened in a heartbeat no matter who I was with. Then again, this is coming from someone who is decidedly non-confrontational and has never hit anyone in my life so my own adrenalin would be skyrocketing at just the thought of being in a potentially physical altercation which certainly could have arisen out of this situation.

Don't mistake conservative for uncivilized! Quite a few of those conservatives in the OC have pretty clothes in their closets.

Although most of OC is part of my personal no-fly zone, I've been out & about quite a bit in these parts and have never had an issue. OC may be conservative but this isn't redneck land by any stretch of the imagination.

That's exactly right Stef...its breathtakingly arrogant for somebody to jump on the OP and second guess Anne.....

If Anne would have presented this scenario responding that she backed away without confronting the idiot who assaulted her, I don't think anyone would have said "she should have gotten in his face and gave him a piece of her mind". Choosing not to confront the situation was nothing more than another option.

I already said that my gut reaction as I read Anne's post for the first time was that I was waiting for her to turn around and say something like "really? Is that the best you have?" as that is likely would likely been my response. But I would not have faulted her if she had done nothing and walked away with the support of those who were with her.

[stefan37]

I made no mention of elite trans activists on this site, but the so called "trans community" generally. My comments were directed to comments that we should be act a certain way for the benefit of the "TG" community.
Have you never gone to a county Fair, or festival of some sort? That was the venue Anne attended with a friend of hers and his son. She went to have a good time with friends and was verbally and capriciously assaulted with extreme prejudice and malice.

What a boring life if we can't go to wine, music or art festivals because they are the wrong venue for us to attend. She wasn't visiting some seedy section of town late at night. But a friendly family event in the middle of the day. Minding her own business enjoying the day. Until her peaceful day was shattered by some crude lout who most certainly was emboldened by the presence of his friends.

[Badtranny]

you will find that there are no trans elitist activists on this forum. ..

Stef and I are FB friends who chat a fair bit, and she was probably referring to the nutty broads she sees come after me on the regular. (not anymore though, I've retired) There's not a lot of that here for some reason.

...Come to think of it, I wonder why? I'm not being sarcastic, I am seriously wondering why we don't get more of an 'activist' crowd here.

[stefan37]

Lol, Retired. Accurate though.

[Nigella]

I will not condone, nor condemn Anne for her actions, she did what she felt was appropriate at that moment in time, exactly what we all do when confronted with a situation.

The outcome could have been so different in so many ways, as each "chapter" unfolded a new avenue of response opened. The bravest part of Anne's story is not what she did, but the fact that she came onto this forum and told her sisters about it.

Anne has been through a load of personal grief on her journey and has aired her suffering, to be told she should or should not have done this or that in a situation that only she has been through, is so wrong of anyone here. And before anyone says "but I have been there, done that" think again, you may have been in a similar situation, but not in the SAME situation.

[Rogina B]

What a boring life if we can't go to wine, music or art festivals because they are the wrong venue for us to attend. She wasn't visiting some seedy section of town late at night. But a friendly family event in the middle of the day. Minding her own business enjoying the day. Until her peaceful day was shattered by some crude lout who most certainly was emboldened by the presence of his friends.

And you have just reinforced my opinion that Anne should have not turned around and should have continued on her merry way...I really doubt they would have followed her or continued to yell out in the crowd.By turning around and getting up close and personal,it confirmed that she probably wasn't a GG. None of that would have been possible if she just kept walking away.

[stefan37]

And again you are not full-time and really have no idea what it is like to live 24/7. Only Anne knows why she reacted like she did and I for one will not judge her for her actions. Thankfully it turned out and she was not injured, but had she not confronted them, they may have viewed that as a sign off weakness and continued.

Just a couple weeks ago a forum member posted about a very scary incident her friend experienced that would have definitely resulted in harm. And she took the course of fleeing. All situations are different as our response to them. You will never know how you will respond to them until faced with the situation and effect a response.

[Kathryn Martin]

By turning around and getting up close and personal,it confirmed that she probably wasn't a GG.

THAT is really funny, because it is in so many ways completely off the mark. let me tell you what my likely reaction could have been:

- walk away

here is the more unlikely but possible reaction:

- lift my skirt and show him and tell him to get a life

Here is what my spouse would have done in that situation:

-told me to hang on and walk right up to him, get in his face (all 5'3") and and ask him if he had something to say. She is brilliant, she can intimidate guys in ways I can't even fathom. She has done this .... I have seen it......

So tell her that she is not a woman (she is FAB) and she would likely get into your face and let you have it. Devil's advocate in this situation is not helpful. What happened, happened. Hindsight is always 20/20 and what any of us would have done is about as relevant to this discussion as rock in the Arizona desert.

;

[Kaitlyn Michele]

what is it with this "what would a gg do??" "confirmed she was not gg"...

We live our authentic lives... full stop...

what anne confirmed is she wouldn't take crap from this loser... its a given that it could have gone wrong..that's not the point...

saying what would a GG do comes from a place of someone that is pretending to be a GG, not from a place where people are living their authentic lives as women

[LeaP]

Couple of things:

Anne is not full-time yet.

What makes the story so compelling actually isn't either the risk or outcome. It's the inner place Anne came from. As I said, I'm impressed so many ways it's hard to list them. Foolish or not, it was a woman's outrage and appeal. THAT'S why the angel responded as she did.

Anne, your irritation at some of the responses is understandable ... even if the language was a bit salty.

[Badtranny]

THAT is really funny, because it is in so many ways completely off the mark. let me tell you what my likely reaction could have been;

There is the extremely rare occasion that I agree with every word in one of your posts.

This is one of those occasions.

[stefan37]

While Anne may not be completely full time. She was certainly not there as her old male self. She was there as her true self. She's committed to her future and it's only a matter of time when she will be full time.

Early transition as I said earlier is a brutal awakening. There will be much unease interacting with the public. It is and will be for a long time in the back of our mind. Do they know or think I am trans? How are they going to react? The thing is though until you truly start to live your life authentically will you understand what it is like. And Anne is doing just that.

My point is that living a life in transition is way different than living life as a part timer where you get to pick and choose which situations you want to face as a male or female. Just as living as a transitioned 24/7 is different than living you life on hormones but still working or presenting as male.

[LeaP]

While Anne may not be completely full time. She was certainly not there as her old male self. ...

Yes.

Re GGs, I'm tempted to ask "what would Jesus do?" rather than what a GG would do. But since neither Jesus nor the reference model GG is here, what's the point? After all, the external reference is largely irrelevant once you've internalized your Christianity - or your womanhood. And the point? Oh yes ... it's rhetorical.

[Michelle789]

Yes.

Re GGs, I'm tempted to ask "what would Jesus do?" rather than what a GG would do. But since neither Jesus nor the reference model GG is here, what's the point?

Jesus would tell you that you are part of his kingdom, and would stand right by your side.

[Rogina B]

I believe that nothing was gained in your confrontation other than a vent for you,Anne. Someone heckled you and you flew off the handle. You could have kept walking,but your maleness took over.

[Danielle11]

Seriously, Regina, with your perspective on life. women could not vote. slavery would still be in effect. gays could not marry. we are different so we should just slink away and hide?????[I] have been asked many times why I don't let what I have be enough? it isn't enough. Simply, cause my life can be better. I'll fight for that.

[LeaP]

They say the best stories are those that reveal the reader more than they illustrate the writer. I'd say on the basis of this thread that Anne's OP qualifies. Fascinating set of responses.

[Anne2345]

I believe that nothing was gained in your confrontation other than a vent for you,Anne. Someone heckled you and you flew off the handle. You could have kept walking,but your maleness took over.

I gained more from that exchange than you will ever know or begin to understand or appreciate in your limited and sheltered existence, Rogina.

This is not about "maleness" or "femaleness." This is about life. It is about authenticity. It is about what is right. And it is about LIVING.

That you would presume to be in a position to judge me for "flying off the handle" is absolutely insane and ludicrous in the extreme.

But I also can't help but note there is an ironic twist to all of your posts in this thread. You claim that I couldn't walk away, you claim that my "maleness" took over (whatever *that* means), yet it is YOU that keeps HECKLING me within my own thread here, and it is YOU that can't walk away from your baseless and ridiculous accusations.

I gain much from my experience out and about doing my thing and trying to authentically live my life. What do do you gain by your constantly attacking me on this forum, Rogina?

Does it make you feel better about yourself? Does it make you feel important?! Does you feel some sort of perverse pride going after me?

I mean, you have never met me. You have never talked to me. You don't know me at all, other than what I let you know. So how is it that you have all of the answers when you have so little to base it upon?!

In your own way, by and through your insessent attemtpts of calling me out on this forum, you are just as much the school yard bully as any of the haters out there in the world. Except you attempt to hide and mask your own particular brand of mean-spirited aggressiveness and ignorance under the guise of an internet transgender support group membership.

But guess what, Rogina??! It no longer works. Folk have begun to catch on to you. Just a quick, cursory review of the responses on this very thread belay your true nature and lack of understanding.

I am not a GG, Rogina. And neither are you. So why don't you do us all a favor here, and step down from the high pedestal you have placed yourself on. It's quite unbecoming, you know? And it serves NO ONE well here. Least of all, you.

[Danielle11]

Girls.........who would think it.

[Eryn]

Unlike a part timer. We do not go out dressed to the nines in a group, or wear heavy makeup. That in itself opens us up to getting "clocked" and ridicule.

And who is stereotyping "part-timers" here? I qualify as a part-timer and I wear what GGs of my age wear, both clothes and makeup. I'm seldom in a large group either.

but here's the thing...you weren't there... you can't say S$$T

Actually, we were all there, through the eloquence of Anne's original post. And, since this is a forum, we are expected to comment on what she wrote.

also you can't presume this guy would have backed off... who is to say that anne walking away would not have resulted in a worse outcome...a hand on her back, "hey i'm talking to you" or stalked from afar and attacked later...anyone capable of mouthing off like that is capable of worse... there was no easy answer...

There isn't, but the one way to virtually assure a violent outcome is to approach and engage the verbal assailant nose-to-nose. What outcome could one expect other than violence? The only thing that prevented a tragedy in this case was the courageous woman who intervened.

Not engaging with a verbal assailant is almost certainly safer and even if one were pursued it is more likely that others would come to our assistance.

Where I really disagree though is the statement that Anne was looking or trouble. One who is on the receiving end of such an assault is rarely the one looking for the trouble.

I made that assertion and perhaps it was unfair. A better way to put it is "willing to engage in antisocial behavior if provoked."

And again you are not full-time and really have no idea what it is like to live 24/7.

And that is a crock. This has noting to do with living full time. I'm a lowly part-timer, but in that sort of situation I am just as vulnerable, perhaps more so as I don't have as much experience and stick out more in a crowd. What I do know is that it isn't smart to engage a hostile verbal assailant on their own terms. Some battles should be joined, but only when the conditions are favorable. This isn't a TG/TS thing, it's simply common sense with dealing with any hostile and unpredictable individual.

yet it is YOU that keeps HECKLING me within my own thread here, and it is YOU that can't walk away from your baseless and ridiculous accusations.

You may have started it, but it isn't your thread any more than it is mine. What did you expect, everyone to say "You go, girl, you should have punched his lights out!"? Sorry, but that isn't the way public discourse works. If I write about doing something inadvisable on a public forum I expect that another member will probably point it out. Disagreeing isn't heckling.

I've made similar reckless actions in my youth and in hindsight I realized that getting in a loudmouth's face wasn't a good strategy. I didn't change the loudmouth's mind and I ended up getting hurt.

You probably don't agree with me at the moment, but in the fullness of time you'll figure it out. I know that I did.

In the meantime, this discussion might prevent another person from needlessly endangering herself.