Pushing the edge

[Kate's at home]

Has anyone been reading about the experience of Chase Culpepper in South Carolina with the DMV, and his (and his mom's) response via legal action against the state? I have been following this a bit, and find his actions to be very brave in standing up for his right to presentation and projected sense of self (I use the pronoun "he", as he uses it). Maybe this new, younger generation is going to break down all sorts of barriers. Has this movement come a long way in a very short time?

Your thoughts and observations?

Kate

[I Am Paula]

I probably follow this case closer than most. Two friends of mine were denied accurate D.L. photos in West Virginia (asked to remove makeup, and jewellery) They both have legal name and gender changes, but the DMV insists they are men in disguise! One was referred to at the DMV as 'it'.
Their case is due in court in a few months, and a victory by Chase Culpepper would set a wonderful precedent.
Some of these 'less enlightened' states need a kick in the butt, and these three girls are ready for a fight.

[Lexi Moralas]

Very brave Indeed ! They are breaking down bariers , I wish them all the luck in the world

[Kaze_]

The laws need to be updated to allow for transgendered individuals, obviously.

What really struck me was the comments under the first article I read about this... the amount of hate for the poor kid was astonishing.

[bridget thronton]

Makes no sense to require makeup removal for either men or women

[Jorja]

Has this movement come a long way in a very short time?Kate

In answer to your question, this movement has been a long and on going fight for many years across the US. Pretty much the same situation happened to a couple of friends of mine 40 years ago in Hawaii. I recall a couple of cases pretty much the same in California about 20 years ago. During that period of time it was thought that we were disgusting perverts that prey on little boys or something. Today the attitude of society has changed greatly. We have states where gay marriage is legal. The stigma of being transgender isn't nearly what it used to be.

This movement has come a long way but it has taken a long time to get here. Will they win their cases? I don't know but they stand a better chance than those before them. At the very least the employees of the DMV should get a lesson in diversity.

[DonnaT]

They are clear cases of sex discrimination if the states do not make women take their makeup and jewelry off also.

The DMVs fails to realize that these people are going to be wearing makeup and/or jewelry when out and about driving their cars, thus a photo ID without the makeup and jewelry will not match there normal everyday appearance.

[Vanessa5]

You said it Donna. If the picture doesn't match the person what then? I would assume that Chase is almost always in makeup and jewlery. Why can't there be a option for a 3rd gender? Or androgenous? Just for the record if there was a option on my licence for trans I would select it. At least that way IF I were to be pulled over the officer would at least understand more of the situation as opposed to assume i was trying to "fool" him into thinking I am something I am not.

[Anna H]

An odd thing is that here in Georgia...one place I'm Very careful
about where i go myself.....

The DMV will issue a State ID with a fem picture to go with the
normal drivers license.

I don't have one, but i have heard that from a Very reliable source,
so i assume it to be true.

I've also heard there are several other states that do the same.

[JenniferR771]

So...if you wear a pink sweater and a push-up bra is that not permitted? Heels OK? Is a tasteful wig OK? Short OK, but not long? Low ponytail, but not a high ponytail with a scrunchie?
How much makeup is too much?

[6inchheels]

You said it Jennifer. It sounds like quite the arbitrary line in the sand...

[Edyta_C]

It really is silly. I was allow on last renewal to use the previous picture in which I had a beard. My hair is now nearly white with only a trace of reddish brown and no reddish brown beard. Is the beard or no beard the disguise?? Normal makeup, not stage heavy makeup, does not act as a disguise. More like a tune up or tune down for the face.

What do they do with the clowns that have piercings? Not earrings but plugs, or nose piercings or what not. Those are more disguising than a normal female earring or two.

This really shows either stupidity or extreme bias.

Edy

[sometimes_miss]

The stigma of being transgender isn't nearly what it used to be.

Absolutely. 50% fewer knuckleheads want us dead. That's a good start. But we have far, far to go.

What Chase is coming up against, is the uneducated average adult, one who was born and grew up in a household (and most likely town) where there were no 'out and about' gay or TG folks, and the few that were, were careful not to draw attention to themselves. Those people lived their lives ignoring the existance of gay and tg, living in their own little world. And they want to keep it that way. They're uncomfortable with even our existance, so they simply pretend that the only reason to alter our appearance is for one of subterfuge, and use the existing laws to try and make us 'behave' the way they want us to.
It will change; but it's going to take time, and the ignorant will not go quietly, they'll go kicking and screaming, as evidenced by the idiots who protest the existance of gay people at any funeral getting any media attention at all. Ignorance is alive and well in oh, about 90% of the world. I think it's the major reason that space aliens don't introduce themselves to us; after all, they keep abducting the stupidest people that exist.

[lil-girl27]

While reading i had a thought what if the opposite would happen? well not exactly that but if someone was say pulled over and had their make-up done like most would on a regular bases but their D.L. did not show them the way they are most often, could they be accused of a fake license? just a thought

[Kate's at home]

I wonder how many of us here over 45-50 would have even remotely considered taking Chase's action with the DMV when we were that age, asking for and possibly receiving parental support, or even have considered leaving the house fully dressed to go to the DMV? That is what I'm referring to by change. And I know we have a very long way to go. It just seems to me, by the perspective of time and experience, that this is a significant event for us.

Thank you all for sharing,

Kate

[Krisi]

Why is it you need a photo ID to drive a car but not to vote?

[Brianna_H]

Seeing Chase's picture with this new item a few months ago was one of the things that tipped me over the edge. I avoided a lot of media with gender bending or transgender people, afraid I think to see myself in them. But this story was one of the things that broke me down and made me see myself in him and then in many others. Of course I agree the DMV is being sexist and bigoted. I admire Chase and his mom for standing up for themselves. Chase is a lovely kid and I wish him the best.

I think in part, I see these younger people and think, "If this kid has the courage to face High School as his true self, then I should think seriously about the need I feel to hide my true self from the world under the armor of being a 'dude.'

Why is it you need a photo ID to drive a car but not to vote?

Driving is a privilege, voting is a right. Plus voter fraud is demonstrably less of a problem than the people freaking out about it think it is. But this is off topic.

[Rhonda Jean]

Years ago I wrote on here about getting a fem pic on my DL and then trying to get it changed. I live at the buckle of the bible belt, yet getting the pic was a breeze. I had long hair then, flat ironed, makeup and big hoop earrings, and a black V-neck top. No forms, no bra, jeans. Certainly from the shoulders up I was fem. The clerk at the DMV even took 3 or 4 pics and let me pick the best. When I panicked about it, getting them to let me get a new picture was nearly impossible, and if I hadn't happened on to a sympathetic clerk (after several tries and denials) I would have been stuck with it, which would not have been a good thing in my case.

I think a lot of this comes down to whose line you happen to get in at the DMV. Chase got into the wrong line. I agree with Jorja that the fight has been going on for a long time, but I also think that the victories are coming along a lot more frequently now. One exception to that would be boys long hair. I thought that one was won 50 years ago. Every year it seems there's a story of some boy getting kicked out of school for long hair. Amazing.

[Carla4Guage]

Maybe the answer is for state DMVs to allow dual pictures!