What HRT could do though is begin to soften the more harsh male facial features while you get your affairs in order and build confidence.
For many people even the cost of estrogen is significant, let alone hair removal. So in regard to timelines there needs to be a fairly wide berth given.
e:
Hair removal cost is a huge barrier as well.
Soon I'll need to start electro and even only being able to afford 4 hours at $60/hr leaves me with just enough money to pay my bills and that's mostly it.
I guess what i'm really trying to say is that you won't grow confidence by taking more HRT or removing more hair..
No, the confidence comes from being out there. Things like hair removal, ID that matches you, and a name change do a lot towards making it a bit less awkward, but you have to live the life and get out there.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
I know HRT does nothing for facial hair... that's why I'm doing laser. But HRT does help with body hair.
I actually think my confidence will increase with HRT and less facial hair. The laser sessions I've had so far have done wonders for my confidence. A year ago, I never went out in public. Now it's no big deal. But still, we all have to reach a point when we're ready for full-time, and I have not yet reached that point... and I would hope that does not preclude my receiving HRT.
Last edited by Dianne S; 09-20-2014 at 02:21 PM.
It does not preclude it. Of course, you already know this. No need to become defensive, though. What some here are advising (and rightfully so) is that one should not place such heavy emphasis and reliance on HRT to gain and acquire confidence and conviction. HRT is not magic, and it is not a substitute for the lessons that can only be learned through real world experience and getting out there and doing.Originally Posted by Dianne S
Regardless, this is not a race, and no one gets extra points for going faster. So proceed at whatever pace is reasonable for you, and that you are comfortable with. It's your life, and when you are ready to do with it what you must, whatever that may be, you'll do it then. Until such time, keep collecting data, and you'll figure it out. Just be careful not to assign too much importance or significance to any one thing related to this path, because that will not serve you well . . . .
Everyone's needs will be different as to when HRT is started, and even more to the point needed. Some need the HRT to alleviate the GD, as did I. and little thought being given to any RLE, given a life situation. For others, RLE is the must do element in one's development. As others have said, there is no need for one to be done before the other can begin. What is most important is that one feels comfortable with what one does, regardless. No one can tell you what is comfortable for you, just what worked for them.
Barbara
He (she) who would learn to fly one day must first learn to stand and walk and run and climb and dance.
- Friedrich Nietzche -
I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.
There is also no way that "you can learn" without putting yourself out there and being female in the mainstream world. There is no "cutting that line"..
It SURE is my hair ! I have the receipt and the box it came in !
How much have you gone out? How often?
HRT is not a substitute for the important steps you have to take PRIOR to HRT.
Let's start with that. Have you been waxing or just shaving? To have the thinner lighter hair on your legs and arms, you have to wax them. Of course, your friends will notice that your arms are bare, and/or that you are wearing long sleeve shirts in the heat of july. If you are serious about HRT, then you need to be comfortable with wearing short sleeve shirts even a few days after waxing, and wearing shorts.Body-hair management and getting the right shape would take up too much time... so just wondering, what's the "typical" sequence?
What about Facial hair? Have you started laser? Have you grown a beard and waxed it off? Have you started electrolysis? There are ways to reduce the cost and time involved, but you have to be willing to do some things that will be painful and difficult. I grew my beard to 2 inches long, then waxed it off. The process was bloody, painful, and for a few days during the work weeks, my face looked a bit like hamburger. I couldn't get the moustache to wax off, so I had to pluck it out with tweezers.
Are both of your ears pierced? If so, your friends and family are already aware of your gender dysphoria and waiting for you to tell them.
A huge portion of RLE is planning a successful disclosure. Before you can start HRT, you will need to tell friends, families, in-laws, employers, and everyone important in your life that you are transgender and planning to transition in the near future.
Normally, a therapist wants you to be living at least MOST of your time as female, with the exception of work, before you start HRT. Furthermore, your therapist will confirm that you have been in communication with your employer and that they will be prepared for the time when you are ready to start working full-time as female.
The key requirement, more than amount of time, is that the therapist needs to know that your life will work as you start to grow breasts. The therapist has to know that you are emotionally, psychologically, and financially able to accept and deal with any and all possible consequences. As you transition, you will be encouraged to look at new consequences as they present themselves.
Keep in mind that once they physical effects of HRT manifest themselves, there is no hiding and there is no going back. If you have C-cup breasts, it will require surgical breast reduction to go back to being male again. Conversely, if you are an FTM and you've taken enough testosterone to lower your voice, to grow hair everywhere you want it (and a few places you don't), it's a really big deal to try and get back to female mode.HRT and then RLE, or vice-versa? Interested in experiences from those who've done it either way and what they think the pros/cons of each are.
By the time I started HRT, I had already taken steps that made it impossible to hide that I was transgender. The pierced ears, the manicured nails, the hairless arms and legs, and the hairless face, all led to questions that could only be answered honestly. When I told my manager I was now on HRT and would be ready to transition soon, he asked me to post a current picture of myself. I was presented to clients as "Her" and "She". On the next engagement, I had to work as "Rexxie" because I had not yet initiated my name change. By the titme I got my next engagement, I had filed for the name change, gotten the gender change letters from the doctor, and was working as Debbie from day one. My badge still said Rex, but I was allowed to wear it so that it would usually be covered by a coat. By then, I was good enough at blending that many people thought I was a woman. The only give-away was my e-mail which still had my male name.
A few co-workers started asking me more questions, and we were able to have informative and often amusing discussions. I was able to properly help them to feel more comfortable almost immediately. This is because I had done it dozens and later even a hundred times before. When Debbie came to Thanksgiving, the family liked her better than Rex and have Debbie all the Christmas presents, which made me so happy I cried. At church, the women knew I was going to start coming in a dress, and when Debbie did show up, about the only thing that gave away my prior nature as a boy was that I was singing in the Bass section of the choir. The main reason being that we had too many tenors and even though my voice was going up by over an octave, I still had baritone notes.
When one of the elderly gentlemen, a staunch conservative, and a key contributor asked me why I felt I needed to do this, I was able to explain everything he needed to know in less than 10 minutes, and he realized that I had always been Debbie, it was Rex who had been created to survive a world that was often brutal and painful. Others embraced me and accepted me even more quickly. A few were still uncomfortable, but I had learned to remove any sense of threat through my previous RLE before starting hormones.
In my particular case, I had the advantage of a previous RLE period. From 1989 to 1996, I was able to get lots of RLE, often living all but work hours as Debbie. When I met my wife, I had placed pictures of Debbie next to pictures of Rex in my profile. I knew that most (about 99%) of the women who saw it would just move on to the next candidate. The 10 out of 1000 women who did respond positively were rare treasures, and when Lee asked and I gave an explanation I had shared hundreds of times before with hundreds of different people, she was still interested. When she show my profile to her daughter, she said "well mom, at least you won't have to worry about shatterig his fragile male ego when you tell him your in charge of it". Lee told me that over the phone. I laughed and said "well, she's got that much right".
The only time I had a setback was when I wasn't able to see my previous therapist because of my business travel requirements. My wife realized that I wanted to transition and that I wanted to start hormones, and told me "I'm not OK with this". I hit the wall rather suddenly, but once I got with a new gender therapist, and went through the preliminary evaluations and process, she invited Lee to come to my sessions. Lee was just upset that I hadn't told her I wanted to transition. She also worried "I'm not a lesbian". Then the therapist asked about what we did together, including details. Then she asked if there were any other men in her experience who did things like that. Her eyes popped open and said "Oh my God, I must be bisexual". She's still attracted to men, but she also finds Debbie attractive as well, and she loves what we do together.
After that, Lee became very supportive, and insisted in doing a "What not to wear" session with me. We threw away about 90% of my clothes, along with the memories that went with them. We then went shopping for clothes that were age appropriate, size appropriate, and situation appropriate. I resisted at first, but when I realized that people were actually experiencing me as a woman, and I was NEVER getting read, I realized she was on to something. At one point, we were at a dinner, and one of the others at the table asked "how long have you been married?", when we indicated that we had been married since 2006, she said "how is that possible, gay marriage wasn't legal back then". Lee finally admitted "Debbie used to be my husband". Three of the people at the table dropped their forks and did goldfish impressions. Then the inquisitive one said "You were a GUY in 2006, I can't believe it". What really shocked her was that I had been working as a guy until mid 2013.
Thanks to Lee's coaching, I was able to "fly pretty", changing to Debbie as soon as I left work for my drive to the airpoirt, then going through TSA. I still had to show my proper legal Driver's license, but when the TSA worker looked at my old picture, looked at me, and did a triple take, then said "No way you were ever a guy", I knew I was ready to transition at work. A couple of months later, I went to the airport wearing shorts and a T-shirt. The TSA agent called out "MAAM, I CAN HELP YOU". I didn't realize she was addressing me because I wasn't trying to be "pretty". But I did have just barely a 38-B and is was a bit "pointy". When I got home, I wore the same T-shirt and Lee told me I had to wear a bra from now on. A Sports bra if I wanted to "pass" as a guy. By the end of summer, even my thick cotton L.L. Bean dress shirts, which I called "pup tents", couldn't hide the puppies anymore.
Since then, I haven' left the house or hotel room without wearing my wig, even to get ice. For any extended errand, it's wig, make-up, bra, and appropriate attire for a woman my size and age. I couldn't "pass" as a guy even if I wanted to.
Often, we think we want instant transition, to immediately go from full time male to full time female, complete with D-cups, hot legs, and long beautiful hair. We have fantasies of looking like our favorite pop singer, movie star, or television personality. We want to have that Cinderella experience. But the reality is something very different. Slow growth is good growth. It gives us a chance to test the waters, to see where our foundation might need shoring up, and who we can trust and who will be available as support as we transition. It also gives us time to make new friends as our feminine personalities, and to have friends who can know us in transition and support.
Trust the process. It will take time, and it will take trust, and it will require changes. Changes are hard. Some people we know and love will not accept us, and others won't even be surprised. My sister's reaction when I came out to her as Debbie back in 1989 was "yeah, you were ALWAYS my big sister, you knew how to brush out my hair without hurting me, you tought me how to do make-up, and we used to go shopping together and you loved to pick out outfits for me. I was just afraid you'd freak out if I asked you if you wanted to be a girl.
Facebook - Debbie Lawrence
Web - [URL="http://www.debbieballard.org"]DebbieBallard.org{/URL]
See also:
Open4Success
How much have you gone out? How often?
I spend about a day a week presenting as female in public, on average, plus a few evenings a week at home.
Have you been waxing or just shaving?
Epilating and shaving.
I too have varnished nails, long hair, earrings, and hairless face---well, as hairless as I can get it, given my genetics. I agree that slow growth is good growth, but the GD in me is impatient!Anyway, thanks for sharing your experience; it was interesting and hopeful.
Oh, and about the pierced ears: Times have changed. I know several guys who have both ears pierced and who are definitely not transgender.
Debbie brought up something that does need to be considered, that i experienced. After being on hormones a while it is more and more difficult to hide.
I was living as a woman but was still a man at work. I was often mistaken for a woman while trying to look like a man. Things were becoming more and more obvious and I did not look at all like my id. This was very difficult. It was such a relief to get the name change and go full time., but that followed a period of awkwardness that was months long. The in between time is difficult.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
Debbie and Angela are correct, as time on HRT goes on it gets more difficult to conceal unless you are really trying to hide your transition. I was "reversed clocked" multiple times last week just wearing a pair of shorts, t shirt, and flip flops. No makeup, jewelry, or hair pulled back. Once I was even wearing a ball cap. After seven months of HRT and working hard to lose weight, between my growing bust (B cup and still growing) and shrinking waistline my physical attributes are getting harder and harder to conceal. I'm up to two t shirts under a button up shirt in order to pass as male now, but my biggest "oops" is not lowering my voice when I'm at work. I've be practicing my female voice for four months, and it's becoming second nature. Good luck and godspeed on your progress. Just remember to hang on as you enjoy the ride!
+1 on that!
I agree with the first,Kaitlyn, but not the second.
In my case the body changes are definitely subtle. I have had several people comment on them, knowledgeably in the case of my therapist, unknowingly from others. So I have a good idea where they are and what the effects are. But it isn't like I look like something different or anything like that. Were I to characterize the most often–commented changes it would be that they have taken a decade or more off my appearance.
I have been on HRT for just over two years. My body shape has shifted slightly. I can see and feel the difference, but I have plenty of male physical cues left that are permanent.
Breast development is by far the thing that has to be managed most, pre-transition. if it is significant enough, it will dictate both clothing choice and circumstances.
Facial hair removal is affirming and will obviously help your presentation. I don't think it matters at all beyond that. I also don't think body hair removal matters at all to others. Not even a little bit. (Well, okay, maybe to your SO.) My body hair has been gone for a long time. No one has ever blinked an eyelash.
So if the physical is subtle, manageable, etc., then why do I disagree with the second cite, above? Simple, and you caught the essence of it in another (un-cited) line when you said you're ready for HRT when you are ready to improve your quality of life. For me, although the physical changes are relieving and affirming, the huge benefit was psychological. But that's because I was a mess!
It is from this perspective that my comments about RLE without HRT being cruel come. I suppose it's plausible that others whose heads are on a little straighter than mine was may not have this need, but I wonder. The change for me from HRT is so profound, and my psychological state was so compromised prior to HRT, that I cannot imagine starting RLE or transitioning without it.
This is about more than comfort. Some of my worst difficulties were addressed when I started taking antidepressants, on which my therapist insisted prior to addressing gender further. Even then, I was in a highly ambiguous state. HRT took me from identity awareness to identity actualization. I stopped analyzing my psyche and started living it and making decisions normally and naturally.
Lea
If estradiol can relieve the symptoms of gender dysphoria -- and it is well recognized in the medical community that it can with many transwomen -- then I fail to see the logic behind forcing someone to wait a year to received to receive a medically sound treatment for GDS. I have never seen any scientific study -- and if I am wrong then please someone correct me -- that a one year RLE makes a person more ready for HRT than someone with no RLE at all.
Current medical research shows that GDS is in part a result of a hormone imbalance that transwomen are born with -- too much testosterone and not enough estrogen. When that imbalance is corrected through HRT, the GDS symptoms are greatly reduced if not eliminated in many transwomen. If a medical professional forces someone into a year long RLE before prescribing HRT, he or she very often prolongs their patient's suffering. Moreover, many transwomen, for reasons of their own, prefer not to live full time as women and find that HRT alone is suitable for them. Making RLE a condition to receive HRT has the effect of denying these women HRT altogether.
Many doctors and gender clinics in the US -- included the most respected such as Callen/Lorde in New Work and Howard Brown in Chicago -- now prescribe estrogen immediately if initial screening indicates a person is suffering GDS. Therapy is seen not so much as a way of qualifying someone for HRT but as a way of helping the transwoman live a happy and successful life -- regardless of whether she decides to completely transition or not.
Does HRT help one undertake RLE? Many people won't receive enough physical change to help. But psychologically and emotionally HRT can make it a lot easier to venture out in the world as a woman. All of this is my opinion, of course.
Last edited by Cheryl123; 09-22-2014 at 12:09 PM. Reason: spelling
Makes sense Lea...
I was thinking very narrow... the idea of say making it a point to check out at the shoprite without using the self checkout..
somebody tell me they've gone to three different grocery stores for one trip so they could avoid a big checkout and a clerk..it will make me feel better about that fact that I did this regularly until one day I said "f' it"
It's a good thought to consider that anything you can do to improve your frame of mind will trickle down to more confidence and more personal growth..
In my book anyone willing to endure the pain and cost of electro is qualified for SRS, it will force anyone questioning their motives to re-evaluate themselves. As one of the posters above noted, electro will help out tremendously in obtaining a more female facial look. Without electro it makes living as a female more difficult (not impossible just difficult.) I have basically gone 24/7 without HRT because I naturally have a very sparse beard. But I am also retired and have no job to go work at.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Mark Twain
Do you mean qualified for HRT?
It's especially illuminating to counsel starting with the upper lip and directly under the nose.
(And Frances, that would make more sense!)
Lea
I actually thought along the underside of the jaw to be most uncomfortable
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
Just to set a little counterpoint here, not that I generally disagree with the comments made so far, but in my circumstance things were different.
I went out exactly three times before transitioning socially and professionally. Twice to shop for my wardrobe and once with friends to a restaurant. For me keeping things under wraps was more important than anything else. I had a reasonable sense of how I would look once I transitioned.
My timeline was transition decision, then three counseling sessions to get hormone clearance letter, 5 weeks later start of electrolysis, two weeks later hormone start. Five months later social and professional transition, 5 months after that begin SRS assessment, 3 months to first SRS assessment letter, 3 weeks after that booking for surgery confirmed, 3 months later second SRS assessment, 2 months later SRS. Start August 2010, end SRS May 2012. I am still going to electrolysis (although I am now weeks away from being done).
Now, two and a half years later I can say that totally worked for me.
I have no idea what earrings have to do with GD, or transitioning. I started with C cups (my first bra) and am now a D cup which is all about a woop di doo difference and doesn't help when your boobs are what they call in the industry flat and wide (which actually determines partially your cup size). So they can't really have all that much to do with transitioning either.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
When would you say that "going out" counts?
I make no attempt to put forth a male image, or male anything for that matter yet I'm still read as male so I'm not sure if it counts as RLE or not.
It'd be different if I wanted to wear makeup and dresses and all those things but I'm more plain than a dehydrated cracker.
That's kinda what confuses me a bit, I've gotten off light in terms of getting shit so I assume that I'm being read as male enough to pass under the radar.
So far I've only been stared at and had people yell something unintelligible at me from a van.
(x)nthing Electrolysis as being a good indicator because holy crap I'd leave my appointments inches away from tears.
The description for Real Life Experience means that you live 24/7, go to work, eat, sleep, socialize a woman. Going out is more or less the weekend warrior status, not RLE however, at least according to the standards of care.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
That's what I don't get though, does that mean stereotypical woman stuff or people seeing you as a woman?
You are in the minority Kathryn and probably pretty darn lucky that all went well both before and after.
Neither. It means asserting yourself and your identity, using your chosen name all the time, correcting people who misgender you and not have "two voices." As far as appereance goes, there are a lot of options. Fortunately, jeans and a T-shirt is stereotypical these days.
In short, in means being one whole person. No more talk of your male self™.
Ahhhhh okay that makes sense
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