Improving DADT relationship

[Lisa X]

I would like to hear how you have tried to improve your Don't Ask Don't Tell relationship and what has worked and what has not.

I have been married for 26 years and we have had a DADT relationship all this time. My wife is somewhat supportive on occasions, but most of the time she would rather not have to deal with my cross dressing. I have tried to talk to her about my cross dressing, but it ends up being a one way conversation, and I really don't know how she feels and what she thinks. I have tried to keep it "under control" and not to do too much in front of her. We raised 2 wonderful kids, who do not know because my wife does not want them to know (that is a different topic), and our youngest just went off to college so we have the house to ourselves now. I have a lot more opportunities to dress, but I want to make sure I set some boundaries and make sure my wife is good with it. I would also love to have her support and acceptance rather than have her keep ignoring a part of who I am.

Thank you in advance for your experience share.

Lisa

[MatildaJ.]

As a wife of a CDer, I think setting up a schedule would help me deal with him spending more of his time dressed. If he wanted to shift to dressing two evenings a week, it would help me to know which evenings those were going to be. Then I could prepare myself and decide whether I was up to spending the evening with him dressed. If not, I could make other plans.

Then if two evenings became four evenings, it would still help to know that on Mondays, Thursdays, and Sundays my spouse would be dressed as a man, so I could plan on enjoying that time with him.

But as for figuring out a way to get "her support" -- I think that's up to her. You could ask her directly whether she wants to figure out how to get more comfortable spending time with you dressed. If she does want to build her comfort, then you could ask what she thought would help that process. But if she doesn't want to spend time with you dressed, you're probably better off accepting and supporting her the way she is, rather than pressuring her to try to be someone she isn't.

[Teresa]

Lisa,
I found the only way was to work out why I dressed , if I understood myself I thought I had better chance of getting my wife to accept my dressing and be prepared to talk about it . My deep feelings were of wanting to share it with a woman and was also sexual, so I knew I wasn't gay or wanted to transition ! When I came out to her twenty years ago it felt like a millstone lifted off my shoulders , I sobbed my heart out , years of being in the closet flooded out ! After I was able to explain the situation and she listened and understood, I felt so close to her but the feelings were not returned. I felt so rejected and unloved that I began to have suicidal thoughts I had a couple of sessions of therapy but stopped them when she refused to take part. I ended up on long term Prozac medication !
It's taken me till the beginning of this year when finding this forum and taking the advice from members to start talking again ! You could say the current situation has gone from tolerance to understanding but not fully accepting ! I still have issues to resolve which they must be because I don't want to travel back down the road where I was twenty years ago !

Lisa we're both in the position of keep talking don't push too hard and just try and be the husband, and father your partner thought she'd married .

[Kate Simmons]

As borne out by the previous comments, that is best worked out between the individual couple. Discuss needs and wants and then make an informed decision. Of course you have to decide what is more important to you and that will be a big factor in all of this.

[Stephanie47]

I went back and read a lot of your prior comments. You seem to have a fairly enriched cross dressing life; plenty of in-home femme time, business trips, etc. Your wife seems to be aware of them. I suspect what you really want from her is to be able to be totally en femme around her. Based on your picture I think you make an attractive woman The problem you are encountering is she does not want a cross dresser presenting as a woman in activities she believes should be enjoyed by a husband and a wife. I think when you are alone, working at home or away, you are not acting as a husband. That probably allows her to tolerate it.

Will your relationship with your wife be enhanced for her, as well as you, if you do present as Lisa in husband-wife activities?

[Beverley Sims]

The DADT project of mine was horribly slow and it was like communism in the 60s....
2 steps forward, one step back.

[Lisa X]

I am OK with setting boundaries with my wife and I understand that she wants me as a husband, father and the other male roles that I hold. However, I would like her to recognize that Lisa is also a part of who I am. It feels empty and lonely when she ignores that part of me.

Lisa

[lexivanderpump]

Lisa,
What works for my wife and I may not work for you and your wife.
My wife can tell when I am in a Pink Fog and when she sees this, she tells me to "go get girlie". However, I know that my crossdressing "disgusts" her and I fully respect that. I only do it in areas of our home where she will not see me. I also need to hide it from our young children. I am happy she tolerates my crossdressing even though she doesn't accept it. Once you realize the importance of the DIFFERENCE between tolerance and acceptance you will then maybe make some headway. Also, listen to what JessM said...", you're probably better off accepting and supporting her the way she is,"
Isn't it amazing Lisa? You crave your wife's acceptance, yet you do not accept her point of view.

I hope this helps hun.

Love,
Lexi V.

[krissy]

I find i cant get to a better place with the wife we are married 38 years .she cant stand this part of me.She knows its part of who i am .She wont talkabout it wont participate in any of it.its sooo hard .when we got together at first she bought me things she even got a girl freind to help with make-up and dressing but after that night 28 years ago she said i dont want to ever see you that way again.From that day my heart broke so i gave up for awhile.raised my kids got them through school.now we have no kids at home i cant even talk to her about this .im just so glad i found this site.us older dressers didnt have a nice place like this for support .to me the younger ones have more resorces and more accetance.just hang in there and do yourself.even if its all alone .still love to dress

[CherylFlint]

I read your post to my wife and she said that your wife would be a lot happier if she wouldn't make such a big deal about nothing.
My wife views me and treats me the same whether I'm "dressed" or not, and I treat her the same also.
I don't drive any differently and like the same foods. I'm right-handed as Cheryl or not.
"What's to get bent so out of shape for?", my wife's words to your wife.
My wife has the final say on how I look because, as she said, she'd rather look at an attractive girl than a guy doing a poor job of trying to "get it right".
JessM: my wife is the one who calls the shots. If she wants to see and be with Cheryl, she'll just say, "Go get dressed" and I'll go into the second bedroom where I'll find whatever she wants me to wear already laid-out. Sometimes weeks go by, sometimes it's everyday for a week. Whatever makes her happy is fine with me. She helps with the makeup and, I must admit, she does a better job than I do.

[MatildaJ.]

@Cheryl, glad that works for you; our marriage is different and I don't want responsibility for deciding when he dresses.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

However, I would like her to recognize that Lisa is also a part of who I am. It feels empty and lonely when she ignores that part of me.

My H would say the same over the years, before he understood my side of things better, yet he never seemed to understand how lonely and trapped a wife can feel if she doesn't like crossdressing but indulges it with her H because he seems to need this. It's soul destroying if it goes on long enough. While he got to be happy being a whole person, I felt I was losing who I was by playing this false game of 'I like my H crossdressed'. I didn't, and I felt like a fraud. I think many here will know this feeling, given the secrecy that is often spoken of here. Wives can feel it, too.

Anyway, this is a situation that can't be helped really as someone usually has to compromise more than the other and that can mean a loss to that person. What I don't get though, is why is it so important that wives involve themselves in this? Most here started as small children and dressed alone for many years without concern. What has changed? Is this maybe just guilt talking, and really what's needed is self acceptance rather than acceptance from a spouse?

[Teresa]

Tinkerbell as you know I'm very much like your H and want to share the sexual content of CDing with our partners !
Others may want to share as a continuation of a dressing experience with a sister or mother !
Being totally alone with something you don't fully understand can lead to all sorts of mental problems and your partner may be the only one that is close enough to pehaps help you through it ! OK you sometimes feel you've stopped being the wife because your partner is suddenly not the man you thought you married and you feel cheated ! Many CDers realise this and tear themselves apart over something they have limited power over !

[CarlaWestin]

Hey Tinkerbell. Your entire post rings of the truth that many CD'rs seem to ignore. Yes DADT and IDWTSI really sucks for the CD but, we must really keep in mind that the love and relationship are the primary concern. Our wives have made compromises to accommodate our proclivity. My Carla time is relegated to very early mornings and the rare times that she is gone. I still have a desire to spend most of my time dressed as a woman but I know it just isn't ever going to be accepted. Now, I am male so, I do little irritating things like making sure I only walk on tiled areas when in heels. Also, I don't allow any demeaning comments about crossdressing. I enforce DADT more than she does. It's kinda' weird but it works. Now, as far as pushing the envelope of DADT, We're having all new carpet and tile floors installed and the interior painted. The best way to a woman's heart is home improvement. I might just use this time to lobby for having the house cleaned every weekend by a live in housekeeper with quite a wardrobe. Maybe finance a spa day for her so I can stay home and be Carla, the Maid.

[Sarasometimes]

I'm in a DADT and also I have been seeing a therapist who has a true understanding and experience with gender identity/expression issues. My wife knows that I dress to some degree but it is truly a subject that isn't discussed and this is why. She knows and when on the rare occasions she notices that I have been dressing (a bit of eyeliner left behind, a clip earring found in my car when she vacuums it for me, she points out the fact and doesn't even entertain a discussion. I can appreciate that degree of tolerance.
I believe there are 3 ways DADT's exist/develop,
1) Left at DADT, keep it out of her sight, except for the occasional truly unintentional missed trace evidence and carry on otherwise. 2) Open the can of worms and see how it goes can lead to 2 other possible outcomes;
2) "Honey I want to talk about you letting me dress more and around you as well as a request that you help me with my outfits and once every couple of weeks we can make love as two women. Okay?" She considers this an outrageous request and makes other plans or shuts you down big time.
3) You mention crossdressing and she replies "Hey honey, wow I thought you cross-dressed, but I didn't know how to bring it up, can we go out with my family and friends as two women Saturday after I bring you to the mall?" "I am so tired of you being the man I married".

Being a betting man and knowing that my wife knows and has the ability to bring it up but chooses to let it slide, is a huge compromise on her part that I need to respect by simply leaving things as they are. That is her choice that I need to respect.

OP You mention that she afford you some support but that you selfishly want more. What about her reply being something like "Well I really like you to just not ever do it and swear that you will stop but I thought that by simply leaving it at DADT was a huge compromise on my part but apparently not enough for your needs." "I can't do more than what I was doing and i thought you appreciated my tolerance but I guess not." Where do you go from there? Reply with the quote from My cousin Vinnie by Marisa Tome "Oh, maybe this is a bad time to bring this up?"

Just my 2 cents.

[Stephanie47]

OK, but exactly do you wan her to do?

I am OK with setting boundaries with my wife and I understand that she wants me as a husband, father and the other male roles that I hold. However, I would like her to recognize that Lisa is also a part of who I am. It feels empty and lonely when she ignores that part of me.

Lisa

[JamieG]

Lisa,

As others have said, there's nothing you can do to make your wife like crossdressing. However, you can help her to be less negative. First, make sure that she knows she comes first. One of the best things I did for my relationship was when I canceled plans to go out to a TG support group at the last minute because I could tell my wife was having a bad day... even though she encouraged me to go. Being aware of your wife's moods and knowing when to and when not to bring up crossdressing will help. Make sure that when you talk about crossdressing with her that you listen, and if she isn't saying anything, then ask her questions, e.g., "What are your biggest fears regarding my dressing?" "Do you think I seem like a different person when dressed?" or even "Why can't we ever have a heart-to-heart about my crossdressing?" These will help you to understand where she is coming from. Try not to be defensive or to "prove her wrong." Validate her feelings, but also share your perspective. Try to come to mutual solutions. Keep in mind this might just mean that she gives you more time to do your thing on your own.

Note, I still dress rarely in front of my wife, but she is very supportive of my need to dress. I think if I kept pushing her to accept me dressing around the house, she might become less supportive. I have learned to be happy with what I have.

[marsha leanne]

Left at DADT, keep it out of her sight, except for the occasional truly unintentional missed trace evidence and carry on otherwise.

Hey Tinkerbell. Your entire post rings of the truth that many CD'rs seem to ignore. Yes DADT and IDWTSI really sucks for the CD but, we must really keep in mind that the love and relationship are the primary concern. Our wives have made compromises to accommodate our proclivity. My Carla time is relegated to very early mornings and the rare times that she is gone. I still have a desire to spend most of my time dressed as a woman but I know it just isn't ever going to be accepted. N


this is the way our house works. I have certain mornings where i can be Marsha, and that works fine.

There have been a couple of moments where an opening question has been raised that may have been a door swinging open but i refused to walk in. eg;"it looks like someone has a secret life" i left it alone or denied .
When the wife is around, all she sees is the male me. we're both spouse and friends, and i really don't want to upset the cart.

for me, right now, dadt works. I know things will move forward, but not in a hurry to push that move.
probably for the fear of it all blowing up as it did before. (first wife).

[marsha leanne]

sorry, not quite sure why the top two sentences did not show in quotes, the first is from sarah, the second from carla

[Tina_gm]

Why is DADT or I guess where I am at with my wife, the IDWTSI so bad? If that is what it takes to not lose the love of your life and still be able to be authentic to yourself.... then I would say that is a workable compromise. With these two scenarios, we are no longer hiding, denying, lying or in any way deceiving. I feel that these types of situations are mostly at the 50-50 level. If it is something that a CDer can live with, not all can I know, some may need more. Some GG's cannot handle any type of CDing or having a CD partner, at all. It really is a middle ground IMO. Liking and accepting are not one in the same. Of course it would be great for me if my wife was more comfortable about my dressing and gender issues, but she is ok enough to stay with me even though I have them and dress in women's clothing. That is acceptance, and I am blessed that she is still with me. Yes, some are luckier than me when it comes to a wife's acceptance, many are not nearly as lucky as me. For those who have been in a DADT or IDWTSI situation and are looking to rock the boat with something YOU agreed to, be careful on how far you rock the boat and remember what is truly important in your life.

[Secret Drawer]

I think the OP's point was how to tell where the crossdressing stands in the relationship when there is virtually NO dialog whatsoever. Being in a DADT in and of itself may not be a bad thing, but not having your SO even wish to understand this important part of your life can be psychologically challenging. I understand the post because I cannot even get my wife to say one word when I tactfully bring it up, as in if we see a crossdresser on TV or something, or virtually a dozen other moments over the years. She simply won't respond or deflect my question. So I get this, and it is frustrating. The idea that somehow wishing for this dialog to open up a bit is not the same as wishing for some sort of lesbian sex act or a wish to suddenly prance around in a feminine alter ego 24/7. How a desire to have a spouse at least understand this important part of your life is not selfish!
Lastly, there is one huge problem with a DADT. That you cannot move forward (out of a limited closet space) with others in and outside of your family if your SO does not acknowledge the issue at all. Consider trying to go to a support group or a psychiatrist with it when your spouse wishes to know nothing or speak anything about it. The two GG's that responded to this thread may not love this part of their SO's psychological makeup, but they come here to at least seek understanding, which I doubt the OP's spouse, and I know mine, would never (ever) do!

[Tina_gm]

A true DADT relationship in regards to dressing almost always occurs when there is a reveal long after the relationship itself has started. although I suppose there are some on here who revealed at the very beginning and their now S/O's have just taken a complete pass on having anything to do with it whatsoever. Typically though, when the reveal is at the beginning, the GG will want to know a lot about it in determining whether or not the person whom they are starting to date or are considering dating is right for them.

The true DADT is a result of not revealing until long afterwords almost always, and for that, it is a product of not revealing we who have done so (not revealed initially) have to accept, since it is us who changed the landscape of the relationship. For many months or years, we chose extreme limitations with our dressing and not having our partners have anything to do with it by concealing it. Now, while as frustrating as it may be, that the DADT is living mostly as we had chosen to live for a long time before. The difference is now there is no fear in being caught. We eliminated the fear of being caught, and the lies we told to avoid being caught. That in itself is still a whole lot better than where we were prior.

[MatildaJ.]

Being totally alone with something you don't fully understand can lead to all sorts of mental problems.

But after the reveal, the wife now feels totally alone with something she doesn't fully understand, nor can she choose whom to unburden herself to, as it's not her secret to tell. Yes, it's true that wives should have compassion for their CDing husbands who didn't choose this path; but the CDing husbands also need compassion for their wives, who likewise didn't choose this path and are facing emotional & mental turmoil of their own.

I cannot even get my wife to say one word when I tactfully bring it up...Consider trying to go to a support group or a psychiatrist with it when your spouse wishes to know nothing or speak anything about it.

Can you explain this a little more? What is preventing you from saying what you want? If you said: "I have a CDing support group to go to on Thursday," would she literally put her hands over her ears and run out of the room to avoid hearing what you said? And even if she does, how does that prevent you from going to the support group?

We eliminated the fear of being caught, and the lies we told to avoid being caught. That in itself is still a whole lot better than where we were prior.

Yes, and it's also a baby-step which may lead, with time and patience and loving trust, to your wife eventually accepting more. She may accept that your clothes are mixed in with the family laundry; she may accept that you take an occasional weekend to attend a CDing event; she may accept being with you dressed, if you let her control the pace of change in her life.

[Teresa]

Secret Drawer,
Luckily I've managed to move on from the wall of slience, but I know what it's like to and try and bring the subject up ! In your own mind you feel she's doing more damage by not opening up. As you say you not asking for some adventerous sex act all you want is a conversation to show some acceptance !
Your comment about full DADT and not being able to move foward, I gave two sessions of therapy a try but without her input the therapist said we couldn't advance. I also feel if I attended a support group I would undo the work on convincing her I wasn't gay, in her eyes why would a group of men dressed as women want to meet up ?

[EllenJo]

Lisa, I had a DADT relationship with my current wife for over 18 years. She was born in Europe and even though she had a very liberal attitude toward things, seeing me dressed was not an option. She said that she actually enjoyed me underdressing (we would wear matching panties), but she did not want to see her "man" dressed as a woman. This worked for us for a couple of reasons. 1) My job required me to travel so I had plenty of Ellen Jo time while on the road. 2) We had an absolutely incredible intimate life together. We spent hours in bed (and everywhere else) doing everything imaginable and I do mean everything. She just was not able to feel attracted to me in fem clothes. I love her so much and we were fine in this DADT situation until about a year and a half ago. As I have said in other posts, she had a major health issue which left her weak and in need of care. This also abruptly ended our intimate life. It was then that she told me I could be Ellen Jo anytime I wanted to with the boundary of her not wanting to see me in make up and wig. The change came about because she said she wants me to be happy and that since our intimate life is no longer an issue she is able to see me dressed without worrying about not being attracted to me. She actually asks me to go get my girl on sometimes. My ability to dress when I want has helped me cope with our lack of intimacy. Understand that we are both in our early 60's.

I guess what I am trying to explain here is that with age and circumstances our DADT is now gone and acceptance is possible. I don't know if any of the other older members here have had similar circumstances but this is what happened in our case. Perhaps time will open the door for you also.