Societies' two most unwanted groups: old oor bachelors, and CD's.

[Alice Torn]

At least, from my 60 years on earth, i have known it personally in both modes, and at times both at once. There is an old Hank Williams story song, which paints the tragedy very well. Single men, who never had much income, or were abused as boys, who never "arrived", were crippled socially, or have struggled all their lives to be at ease around girls and women, or tried and tried, but were never quite what a woman wanted. Boys who struggled hard to b little men, but had the girl side, too. Men, who at an early age, or as later age, dressed in lady things, struggling for their sanity. Both types, are the least loved, and desired in society. Hank Williams' song,is "These men with broken hearts." They wander through a world that is full of couples, and families, where no one cares, and indifference is everywhere, with unmet social needs, and broken hearts. and souls hungry for closeness , which only a pet animal meets.CDing men are really not accepted much at all yet. Almost no single women are looking for CD's. Loner men are shunned, and parents warn kids to avoid them. The song by old Hank tells more than i can. Can any singles relate? http://youtu.be75WZdZH8Ba4

[Kate Simmons]

Some like myself have seemingly had it all, being husbands and Fathers and I'm very happy and proud about who my children have become but even that doesn't necessarily make us happy my friend. Happiness has to come from within and to truly be happy we have to know and appreciate who we really are.

[Alice Torn]

I just hope Kate, that some on here will listen to the 1950 song, and i hope some GG's listen to it to. It is utterly unaddressed in society anywhere.

[sometimes_miss]

And it's not going to be addressed; because women have no reason to, in their eyes, crossdressing does nothing to enhance their lives, so why should they help us? It's simply not on their agenda. And let's not forget that ugly women have it just as bad. And I don't think that 'almost no women are looking for CD's'; NONE are. It's a trait that simply turns women off sexually, except in very, very rare cases. There are probably fewer women that actively seek crossdressers than have Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis. But at least it's a secondary thing; if you have enough money, there will be a woman who will overlook just about anything. Consider the case of Marv Albert, sportscaster extraordinaire; still married AFAIK. Dennis Rodman's been married several times, so it appears you don't have to be good looking either. Yes, it's mostly cash, power and fame that attracts the female sex. I know women will deny it, but you don't see any women actively seeking unemployed guys with no tangible assets, either; while most men have no qualms about chasing stunningly beautiful women who have no job. FWIW.

[Alice Torn]

SM, I think you said it pretty well. Money answers everything in this world.

[Mink]

And it's not going to be addressed; because women have no reason to, in their eyes, crossdressing does nothing to enhance their lives, so why should they help us? It's simply not on their agenda. And let's not forget that ugly women have it just as bad. And I don't think that 'almost no women are looking for CD's'; NONE are. It's a trait that simply turns women off sexually, except in very, very rare cases. There are probably fewer women that actively seek crossdressers than have Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis. But at least it's a secondary thing; if you have enough money, there will be a woman who will overlook just about anything. Consider the case of Marv Albert, sportscaster extraordinaire; still married AFAIK. Dennis Rodman's been married several times, so it appears you don't have to be good looking either. Yes, it's mostly cash, power and fame that attracts the female sex. I know women will deny it, but you don't see any women actively seeking unemployed guys with no tangible assets, either; while most men have no qualms about chasing stunningly beautiful women who have no job. FWIW.

i'm sure there's SOME progressive (queer?) ladies who'd be game with a crossdresser depending on how he goes about it / how much it is a part of who he is or his life / how he views it etc...

and how often have I read or heard women thinking a guy in lingerie is HOT (ie. only if it is say tim curry in rocky horror or maybe a rock star... not regular guys!)

but yes it is quite sad for lonely single guys

it's bad enough living a sad lonely life but then you are punished even further by people ignoring or looking down on you as a loser

it's like come on man! they already have it bad why make them feel furtherly crappy!

i'm sure this is what drives many of the weirdo / loner guys to BECOME more weird and strange... or do odd / bad things!

endless frustration and growing bitterness!

hopefully in time this can change?

I don't see it happening though...

[Alice Torn]

Mink, thanks for the thoughts. Even in today's world, having wealth equals winner. Being low income equals loser, and being a single lower income guy, even if working hard, equals loser, in most eyes.. Add crossdressing? I don't even want to say. Only, a guy i was friends with in grade school, and high school, ended his life after his pretty wife dumped him, as he was working poor. It really is , and has been like my opening post, and Hank Williams' song said, for broken men, including broken crossdressers.

[Sara Jessica]

SM, I think you said it pretty well. Money answers everything in this world.

That is pretty shallow. The running theme here suggests that it is unreasonable for a woman to expect their guy to actually bring something to the table which of course is a ridiculous notion.

[rita63]

Wow this thread is meant for me. I will be 66 next month and have just retired due to health. I am looking for less arduous employment as my Old Age Security and government pension leave me poor even with the low income supplement. I have just started to come out as a trans person of whatever stripe I discover I am, going to support groups and social events and being out and about as rita. I'm off to a conference and a few days getaway on Tues. as rita until Sun. night.
A group here has some government money to study trans health and I signed up for the older trans committee. I was working in a Long Term Care Facility, mainly older people who can't cope on their own, including dementia patients in locked wards. There is no sex in these facilities although recently dome married couples have been allowed to stay together. Anyone outside of the hetro straight realm is simply back in the closet and not able to express their identity at all.
I am hoping for a learning experience and would love to hear more from Alice and others here as to how they are coping.
hugs. rita

[alicia45]

Your post hit home with me (and the song). Not only am I a CD, but I'm an unmarried 45 year old man who, despite certain professional success, Remains financially poor and still very, very shy around women. It was easier in my early adulthood as I didn't have to work the game; they came to me--which was great because of my crippling shyness. But as the years progressed I found myself alone and the looks are fading, although I don't think I'm that horrid. Still, because of the shyness, I'm still alone. My last (brief) relationship was 5 years ago and I have been virtually celebrate since (except for two almost accidental, drunken, encounters that really never progressed beyond kissing and heavy petting). Part of me has given up, but I still have some hope. I've tried the online game, but it leaves me feeling cold and desperate as I don't get many responses when I reach out.

[JenniferR771]

You can do it, Alice. Keep looking. There are plenty of lonely women in this world. Its OK to be between jobs. (If you are trying hard to get a better job). Find your suit and favorite tie. Take a pic. Its OK to forget to mention your main hobby until the third date. (On a need to know basis, right?) Sometimes women are hiding a few imperfections, too.
Don't ask about their actual weight...many kids...many ex husbands...their parole officer...substance abuse...

Gay women with slight bi tendencies sometimes prefer crossdressers.

I hope something works out soon. I am pulling for you. Your tallness is an advantage. Security jobs might work--true--you might have to pretend to be a bit harsh at times. A regular paycheck would be sweet.

[Alice Torn]

Rita, I was self employed with a small window washing business 26 yrs, and did security, and yard work, and care taking for a quadriplegic man. I was renting sleeping rooms for years in the Seattle area, then Tacoma. Working poor! Homeless working poor at times, living in a van. I was stubborn and refused any kind of help, for years. Of course, when i dated, I was only friends, and could be no more. Later, as a veteran, I sought VA help. I had a hernia op in 2010. Then, i was forced to quit my business, and jobs, and move back to Illinois, to help my very anti social, negative father, who is going on 94 now. I was told about a Veteran's homeless section 8 program, and after a wait, I finally got my own apartment. But, i got on disability, at the urging of a VA counselor, and a few others. My body was a little messed up from 26 years on ladders, and roofs, and yard work, plus, i suffer severe depression. The disability is small, and i have an awful time stretching the small monthly check! So, i go fishing when the weather is good, and fill my freezer up, and get $81 food stamps a month, which sadly does not buy what it used to . Am looking into food banks. The government is talking of ending the Veterans' section 8 program, so if that happens, I will be in a dire strait. I am looking for a small part time job, but no success yet. I don't have much work experience other than window washing, yard work, and security. I really don' want to do security, as i don't like having to get harsh with folks, especially homeless folks. If you are a veteran Rita, i would talk to the VA, and also food banks. Housing is a bummer for some, and always has been for me. Veterans ought not be homeless! Being poor is looked down on, by some, but, it sure can make a person far more resourceful, and disciplines with a little, and eating less, can make us in better shape. My cats likely eat more than i do, but they are my kids! Sara Jessica, You can go ahead and be smug, and put me , and other poor down. I say listen to Hank Williams' song, and Walk a Mile in my shoes. A lot of people who were prosperous, are now poor. It may be you soon. Good day.

[sometimes_miss]

OK, now for the good news. At least, for some. The older we get, the less sex is important, and the more men have died off. Leaving us as a dwindling commodity. I'm in my fifties, and already seeing women trying to attract my attention where as it NEVER happened when I was younger, as I'm not a particularly good looking guy. But as of right now, I have absolutely no trouble getting dates. I'm not rich by any means, but I do make about 20% more than the mean income for men my age in my geographic area. And it only gets better the older we get. A few years back, when my buddy and I went to lunch, a senior citizen's bus pulled up to the restaurant. About 20 women, and 2 guys got out. I had noticed this phenomenon before. A bit later, I went to take a leak, and one of the senior guys was in there, of course having a bit of prostate trouble. I asked him about the ratio; just him and the other guy and a whole bunch of women? He just nodded, smiled a wicked grin and said, Uh huh! I asked, is it always that way? Again, confirmation. The ladies have the odds in their favor when they're young. That changes dramatically as we age. And if you're nice at all, you've got an ever increasing pool of women available. Just follow all the basic rules, Be clean, well groomed, try to wear dress businessman's attire that means nice, ironed slacks, dress shirt and a blazer, NICE SHOES ALWAYS ARE IMPORTANT TO WOMEN. I know that last is ridiculous, but it's true. So wear expensive looking shoes, or make sure the ones you have on are polished. The following are NOT going to help you: Khakis, polo shirts, sweats, t shirts, jeans, sneakers, work shoes. Wear a nice gold tone watch with a leather band, or a knock off that looks like it.
It's been working for me. Still haven't found any women who are crossdresser friendly, but at least I'm not alone, and don't expect to be. I have one standing dinner reservation with a woman down the block now.
The glass is half full. Not half empty.

[AngelaYVR]

Can't comment on the old and lonely but as for women, I did date a bi woman who had a real fetish for CDs. It drove her crazy, the best of both she said. Alas, everything else was not good so I ended it. I always hoped another CD was able to find her. (As far as we all hope for a partner that wants to participate with dressing, there are actually bigger issues that come before!)

Angela xx

[Tania75]

OK, now for the good news. At least, for some. The older we get, the less sex is important, and the more men have died off. Leaving us as a dwindling commodity. I'm in my fifties, and already seeing women trying to attract my attention where as it NEVER happened when I was younger, as I'm not a particularly good looking guy. But as of right now, I have absolutely no trouble getting dates. I'm not rich by any means, but I do make about 20% more than the mean income for men my age in my geographic area. And it only gets better the older we get. A few years back, when my buddy and I went to lunch, a senior citizen's bus pulled up to the restaurant. About 20 women, and 2 guys got out. I had noticed this phenomenon before. A bit later, I went to take a leak, and one of the senior guys was in there, of course having a bit of prostate trouble. I asked him about the ratio; just him and the other guy and a whole bunch of women? He just nodded, smiled a wicked grin and said, Uh huh! I asked, is it always that way? Again, confirmation. The ladies have the odds in their favor when they're young. That changes dramatically as we age. And if you're nice at all, you've got an ever increasing pool of women available. Just follow all the basic rules, Be clean, well groomed, try to wear dress businessman's attire that means nice, ironed slacks, dress shirt and a blazer, NICE SHOES ALWAYS ARE IMPORTANT TO WOMEN. I know that last is ridiculous, but it's true. So wear expensive looking shoes, or make sure the ones you have on are polished. The following are NOT going to help you: Khakis, polo shirts, sweats, t shirts, jeans, sneakers, work shoes. Wear a nice gold tone watch with a leather band, or a knock off that looks like it.
It's been working for me. Still haven't found any women who are crossdresser friendly, but at least I'm not alone, and don't expect to be. I have one standing dinner reservation with a woman down the block now.
The glass is half full. Not half empty.

So true, although your what not to wear list just about sums up my wardrobe. I guess I may have to actually iron a shirt every now and then.
Just being polite, don't ever swear, having a positive outlook on life, and doing everything with a smile on your face goes a long way.
Having said that, I've just turned 50, and am still single, and also very shy. I sometimes joke that I'm sometimes scared to ask a woman out, but more scared that she will say yes, rather than no. Oh well, Life goes on, and its still good.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Alice, are you behaving like a loner bachelor weirdo in your everyday life? Are you walking about with your head down, ignoring women because they might reject you, thinking of your next crossdressing moment because it makes you feel better, maybe even with remnants of make up, and guilt, still on your face?

Yeah, most women will run a mile. But that's not you!

You just lack confidence! Job or no job, crossdressing or not, a woman will usually expect confidence, and to know that you at least WANT a better life for yourself and your possible future family. This is no different than a man assuming his wife will give birth and WON'T ditch the baby on the side of the road. We expect some basic survival instinct and then compromise on the rest. If you can raise your confidence you'll get the opportunity to show your loyalty and work ethic and the CDing will become secondary. You won't leave remnants on your face, as you'll wear it proudly one day and be her man the next. If you're confident, the CD part CAN be easier than what I lived through as a wife and what many here have experienced.

Beneath all the fluff and froth I read here, surely there are still red blooded men who can make this happen!

[Teresa]

Alice, Sadly money does answer many things and open doors !
Your head would ride much higher if your bank account was full, you know you'd be able to call the shots !

Maybe difficult to do but try and think other attributes are worth something, hold you head up and smile and say at least I have this or that to look foward to ! We all have something to offer the world and Alice is one of them !

[Laceyunderrooo]

Hold the phone...get on FETLIFE there are to women who are open and seeking a man that's comfortable in pants or a skirt. But you need balance. If your gonna embrace your feminine side, you better be able to embrace your masculine side also. If not maybe your trans and the story gets a lot more complex.

[Kate Simmons]

To add to what I said previously, I let my deeds prove who I am. As a result I have many good women friends besides my GF who value my friendship. I value theirs as well and cherish them as I do my own family. That is better than any amount of money or gold my friend.

[Alice Torn]

Tinkerbell, You really do not know me. If you met me, and knew me better, you may not say such. I value humility, and being real, over egotistical confidence. I put confidence in another source, not in my ego. As it is, If you knew me, in person, I think you would be surprised. I fix used bicycles and give them to homeless veterans, and poor kids, donate pet food to pet food banks, gave $2000 , when i had savings, to friends and people who could not pay their rent, and for tires for their cars, and, took in three different homeless people , at different times. You are very judgmental! No, I seldom go around with me head down, and stooped shoulders, but, at six foot six, , and hitting my head often, on low door jams, and low ceiling fans, and low branches, i do tend to stoop at times. I dated over 40 women , as friends, in the 1980's and 90's, in the Seattle Tacoma area, when in a certain church, and also went to secular singles dances for a decade, and danced with hundreds of different ladies. Then, had to come back to my mean, toxic family of origin, who never changed. I did change myself for the better in the 1980's!, But, never was up to middle class. Dealing with lifetime severe depression and bi polar did not help, often feeling suicidal. But, i have been called a survivor, and warrior in recovery. What many women have been misled into, is thinking a man must be Prince Charming, with no faults, or problems. No wonder the divorce rate is over 50%! And, true, men make the mistake of wanting Cinderella, with no problems. Both sexes need to shed the Superman, and Superwoman costumes, humbly admit their shortcomings, be honest and open about the good, the bad, and the ugly, but not condemning themselves or others. My older twin brothers , at age 64, still degrade, and tear me down,and my 93 yo dad, is very anti social, and told me as a boy, to be a loner like him, still does. and it has damaged my life a ton. And sister never had a boyfriend, at 65! There isn't anything i can say, Tinkerbell, that will open your mind. Rita, I apologize. You are Canadian, I just noticed, and the U.S. veteran's administration could not apply. I hope Canada has some resources, and food banks. I could get on here and brag about how self confident i am , but i won't. Actions are louder than words, but there seems to be a modern faosehood, in the modern world, that self confidence mens good. Terrible dicators who murdered millions, had tons of "self confidence", and Ted Bundy , and Manson did too! In the end, everything will come out in the wash, Tinkerbell.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

In the end, everything will come out in the wash, Tinkerbell.

I dunno. I've got some stains that just won't budge. I'm learning to live with them.

You're a kind person, Alice - at least I can presume that from what you write here. No one on a forum ever really knows though, unless they connect with that person outside the forum. But you write the way of a kind, empathetic person who's life has been hell but who keeps on anyway. The hope is always there. Regardless of what GGs like me think, YOU need to keep on being who you are. I personally love this about a person. I love people who really KNOW who they are and are confident about it. That's what I was trying to say.

I'm off to remove some more stains.

[Jenniferathome]

Alice, I cant relate to any of this. I have always been a "glass half full" kind of guy. Not rose colored glasses, mind you, just positive and pragmatic. Anyone can make something positive happen but you can't wait for it. Do you really have it harder than a blind person? What about double amputees? People with MS or cancer? No, you have it good. Inward pride shows externally as does inward shame. Own your circumstances and you will own your future.

good luck

[Beverley Sims]

Alice,
I have an understanding of how you feel but like Jennifer says, "You have to snap out of it."

Try going out more and buy locally instead of hiding behind E Bay is probably a good start.

[Alice Torn]

Jennifer, Yopu don't have a clue, and are extremely self righteous and judgmental. Have you walked in anothers shoes? The thread is not about just me, but millions of broken men!! I did not mean this tread to be all about me, but i am being attacked personally, and i will defend myself, but it was about an unaddressed societal truth! You constantly blast other dressers and men here on this forum. Why not do an uiinventory on yourself, how damned mean you are to others you have never met. iN PERSON, I DON'T THINK YOU WOULD DARE DO SUCH. Walk in another's shoes. You may meet your Waterloo someday. http"//youtu.be/t51MHUENlAQ http://youtu.be/i-G3549tyO

[Jenniferathome]

Alice, you have either not read or not understood my message. It's uplifting. It's why I am a positive person. I own my circumstance. I alone am responsible for my choices and lot in life. It's that objectivity that sets one free. That is not self-righteous but it is introspective and most importantly, it's honest. I have offered no personal attack but rather a way out. For you or anyone. I wish you luck.