Guess I need to vent...

[Sonya]

Hi Elisa, I think you have a good head on your shoulders and you will sort your relationship with your GF one way or another. Along the way mistakes would be made but hey that’s part of living and learning. We all know that denying this part of yourself is not going to work, you first have to work out what level of cross dressing would you be happy with in the near future and further down the years and communicate these with your GF and find out what she would be happy with. The problem is dynamics of our life and circumstances constantly change with that our and our partner’s desires and expectations change as well. I am out of a long marriage due to many issues including my gender expression. When I was in my relationship, I never did any kind of body hair removal and maybe I was clean shaven few days a month. I still love some facial hair in boy mode, what really hurt me the most was after my wife found out about my cross dressing the way she would come up so close to my face (when kissing and hugging) and I just knew that she was examining my face to see any trace of make up after I had a clean shave. I don’t blame her for opting out of our relationship, credit to her she just didn’t like it or wanted to deal with it and she had enough of her own issues to deal with and I wish her the best. For what is worth having a loving partner is awesome but I need and want the freedom of expressing myself without feeling guilt and shame.

The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

Tinkerbell I think most of us here have a LOVE/HATE relationship with cross dressing especially earlier in our lives. I think you know some of the answers to your question. In summary most here genuinely believed that they could suppress and got rid of cross dressing in our lives and we are more than just cross dressers; most of us are good parents, providers and have good morals. Most of us are more than happy with our male expression and role in our community. I really think the new generations cds will be a lot more wiser in relationships than us (lets say pre GOOGLE generation) with all the information readily available, and I sincerely wish no one experiences what you or my ex wife went through. I said my SORRY to my ex wife, I can not do much more, life has to move on...

[Melissa_59]

... my body and facial hair (due to prohibitions from my gf)...

Seriously? Do you prohibit her from wearing anything other than mini skirts and six inch heels everywhere she goes? Do you prohibit her from wearing underwear when she's wearing those skirts?

Elisa, it's your body and your choice. If you have someone prohibiting you from dressing how you want or shaving if you want, you SERIOUSLY need to reevaluate that relationship. If you tried to do that to her she'd rebel. She wouldn't let you do that to her, why do you let her get away with it? And if it's one of those "make or break" things in your relationship, your relationship is in serious trouble.

SERIOUS trouble.

You two need to discuss this, because this isn't right.

~Melissa

[Lorileah]

Once we know you're a crossdresser you can't fool us with such excuses and in fact it becomes all the more painful and insulting as we know you're feminising yourself.

Sorry Tink, love ya but... wow So everything from point A on will be scrutinized by the SO as possible CDing activity? How about if the CD goes almost bald and decides to shave their head. Now we can see how this could be more comfortable but would the SO think "You did it to wear a wig"? What if they decided they wanted to take up a new hobby...say the stereotypical cooking or sewing? It seems that if the SO doesn't like the CDing, the CD is sort of between a rock and hard place forever.

Isha already covered the fact that people change. Beards get grey and don't look good. Eyebrows get bushy. Faces get wrinkled. All of these may require some sort of "correction". After all...hair on the back wasn't there when you were 23 and now at 50 yo look like a silverback gorilla.

I have been here long enough to know that either fear of being alone or honest love on the CD's part will keep them in a not ideal relationship. Sometimes hurting is the only feeling you can have in a relationship and you stay there because it is better than feeling nothing at all. We see this with a lot of relationships, especially with women who are in abusive situations. I agree the best choice is to walk away. That is the ideal choice but it often isn't that easy when you have been together for awhile (thus why I say tell early tell often).

I feel for the OP. I really does suck to be where you don't want to be. But venting here may make it more tolerable

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Elisa, You are way to young to let your body be controlled by someone else.

[Sonya]

It seems that if the SO doesn't like the CDing, the CD is sort of between a rock and hard place forever.

I think this really summarises the harsh reality but regardless the OP should not lose all hope, somethings are worth fighting for and people's likes and dislikes can change with time, life experience and knowledge. There are no guarantees in life and none of us can predict the future we just have to choose our path and see where it leads us.

[MatildaJ.]

Crossdressers always seem to end up with non-accepting women like Elisa's gf (and me!).

Not all CDers end up with non-accepting women. There are also many women like me who don't love the CDing and wouldn't look for it in a mate, but who can accept it as part of a whole package that is appealing. I put up with my husband's CDing like I put up with his bad puns. And he doesn't expect me to adore either habit.

I think CDers should look for women who accept that real life is different from the "happily ever after" promised by Disney movies; who have unconventional needs of their own; and who appreciate that gender roles aren't set in stone.

[Allisa]

Elisa, I had to read your 2 posts at least 2 times and you said that you liked the beard and looking at your profile pic you are clean shaven did she not know you then? Also you said that you presented you CDing as a form of addiction or dependency a bad light to say the least I believe you are having a problem with your CDing which you passed on to your girl and now you want her acceptance. Sorry for being so blunt but this is just my take on your post and I am probably way off base and far from an expert but please feel free to post anytime it's good to vent and this is a good place to do it. Good-Luck.

Allisa(Lisa)

[Tinkerbell-GG]

It seems that if the SO doesn't like the CDing, the CD is sort of between a rock and hard place forever.

It seems that way, doesn't it? Especially if the partner is less than thrilled to have a crossdressing boyfriend like Elisa's clearly is, though time can temper all this if both parties can find an agreeable balance. And I had a longer think about this body hair issue and I realised it's probably a way for a wife/gf to feel some sense of control over something that scares her. There's probably an element of hope that body hair makes escalation more difficult, and maybe for some it's also compensating for some of the attraction that was lost upon discovering her partner dresses. If a woman starts seeing her bf/H as too 'girly', it's possible the beard helps with these intrusive thoughts?

But Elisa is right to talk with her and figure out what's going on. I was where Elisa's gf once was and I admit I still balk a little when my H changes something physically, even temporarily (which is all he does) but I can now take a deep breath and remind myself that it's nothing more than other men do and not some pathway to transition (body hair might also bring this worry up!), that these things come and go with the trends, and below it all is still my masculine, loving and slightly annoying H, lol. But Elisa's gf is still in the early days and despite some of the amazing acceptance stories we read here, the journey for many others is far less simple. I hope you work things out, Elisa, even if this means you're not destined for a long future together. There is someone out there who is x

[DebbieL]

Elisa,
You bring up an issue that is too common to just leave sitting.

Your GF claims she loves you, yet she can't accept something so important that it's tearing you apart, sending you for "A couple bourbon glasses".

Suppose you were transsexual, would she stop loving you? If that were true, did she ever actually love YOU, or just an image you created.

Your next big question is whether you want to spent your next 30-40 years with someone who can't allow you any degree of your feminine side, won't allow you to shave, and more.

You may be a cross-dresser, but you are also transgender, maybe not transsexual, but still, there is a part of you that needs to be allowed to live, or you will die.

If you had a disease with a 30% mortality rate, a 70% morbidity rate, and high risk of permanent adverse side effects, and you could be 100% cured with some pills, and maybe a surgery, would you GF expect you to die?

30% of all transgenders commit suicide before they are 30. Half try to commit suicide. 70% become drug addicts and/or alcoholics. Of those who transition, at least with HRT, 95% report being happier, healthier, and more productive.

You language also sounds a bit like domestic abuse. You're a psychologist, you know the pattern. The perp finds ways to tear away the victim's self esteem, pushing them to feel shame, guilt, fear, and that they are unworthy. Then they can take control of the victim, force them to do things that make them even feel even more guilt, shame, and fear.

Would you rather spent the next 30 years of your life with a woman who hates you, because you are a cross-dresser and transgender, or would you rather have a woman who loves you because you are transgender? Change is hard, letting go of the past, the familiar, is the hardest part. Even when it's ugly, we'd rather cling to familiar garbage than give it up so we can fill the space with wonderful people, places, and things.

[Stephanie47]

It's refreshing to have Tinkerbell on this site. She offers a woman's perspective of one who is not too thrilled with a cross dressing husband. I said husband, and, not boyfriend. If you, the cross dresser, are so entrenched into cross dressing you are only on a course of misery. Misery for you and your girl friend. Hopefully, you do not have a child(ren) with the woman. You're into the belief you can have your cake and eat it too! Well, it's not going to happen. You're going to butt heads with her. And, if you marry her, it will get worse for both of you. If you were up front with her before really getting entangled, then, I foresee a lot of turmoil. Any woman who thinks she likes what she sees except for what she feels she can change, well.....just run away.

Yes, a girl friend or a wife will know and may feel going out in public is nothing sort of rubbing her face in cross dressing. I tend to be a realist and not a dreamer. I do not do things that upsets my wife. Perhaps you and your girl friend need to have that "talk."

[Marcelle]

Stephanie . . . seriously. You truly believe that we are all so irreprehensible that we should not dare to seek a relationship or have children. My wife is fully supportive . . . does that make her flawed. I am glad that you have found solace in your compromise to do whatever you are told. However, there are those of us who will seek to have a loving relationship with a caring SO and seek compromise as the way ahead.

Isha

[Stephanie Morgan]

I have to say I completely understand the OP's feeling of angst over presenting "en femme" with facial hair. Whenever I dress as Stephanie, I have to shave completely or it just does not feel right. As for the relationship with the girlfriend, I wish I could say something to help. Everyone has to determine their own path and what will or will not work for them. I do applaud the OP for deciding to not take the relationship to the next level until these issues are resolved with the girlfriend. I wish you the best on your journey and hope it is a happy one.

PS...Like so many others have said, if you cannot vent anywhere else, you can always come here. Its one of the reasons I love this place!!

Hugs
Stephanie M.

[Elisa Lace]

Elisa,
You bring up an issue that is too common to just leave sitting.

Your GF claims she loves you, yet she can't accept something so important that it's tearing you apart, sending you for "A couple bourbon glasses".

Suppose you were transsexual, would she stop loving you? If that were true, did she ever actually love YOU, or just an image you created.

You language also sounds a bit like domestic abuse. You're a psychologist, you know the pattern. The perp finds ways to tear away the victim's self esteem, pushing them to feel shame, guilt, fear, and that they are unworthy. Then they can take control of the victim, force them to do things that make them even feel even more guilt, shame, and fear.

Thanks for your reply Debbie, but that line of thought seems to be somewhat extreme (maybe the bourbon phrase just gave my first post a much negative feeling than how it really was). The point is that I know for a fact she does love me, but there IS after all a big boulder between her and myself. As far as I'm concerned, she IS trying to cope with it even if that means for her to be all restrictive in some aspects which relate to my crossdressing. She could perfectly be a jealous person, or an unking b*tch, but she's caring in everything BUT this aspect of myself which implies a big piece of beef to digest.

Guess what I want to say is that, while I AM struggling with the expression of my feminine side, I do so so she can somehow be able to manage her own struggle as well. She probably is asking herself if she can find someone who isn't a "perverted/mentally ill" dude as I'm asking myself if there is a girl who will enjoy applying makeup to her man. I could probably just walk away and dismiss her for not being able to deal with my problems, but what about her problems?

I think we crossdressers may *sometimes* fall into this "she should love me the way I am" and we end up being kinda self centered on ourselves and our struggle in the way a teenage kid would do... Kinda the way our feminine self grows from wearing 10 inch high stilettos to get to a point in which flats fit just fine, we also have to deal with this teenage girl inside of us and her hormone induced tantrums.

I do appreciate your thoughts though Debbie

Thanks again girls for your views, insights and support! It's really appreciated and it definitely helped me getting over this little "teenage crisis".

[ChrissyW1]

I'm another one who just doesn't feel right trying to go femme with facial hair -- I kept facial hair for over 20 years, even over the objections of my first wife, as a sort of suppressive measure to stop my dressing desires. Now, my second wife, who knows and tolerates my dressing actively likes me bearded, but she's tolerated me going clean-shaven because it allows me pleasures. Ahh, the vagaries of life...

[mykell]

Wow... didn't expect this amount of responses.The beard is something she and I like though since it makes me look somewhat my age, instead of giving me a 17 year old face, but which I told her I would like to shave sometimes. That part of the conversation fell to the side somehow and it's now a gray area.

what some here would do to have a 17YO canvas to work with, we do everything we can to look younger, you should enjoy this part of yourself as it will fade as you age....i have just made some conversation time with my wife from a DADT relation so that their are no gray areas....

I always think that this all might be different if I was more sure about my CD'ing back in the beginning of the relationship and would have brought up the subject in a more positive way instead of presenting it as some kind of drug addiction or alcohol dependency lol. Guess I'll never know.

so now you know and have much more information at hand and if like me you have learned more about yourself and the urge to dress and present feminine here you can now educate your GF and share that information with her and it should presented in a transgendered format as something that is not going away, there is no TG anonymous groups but their is AA.....its different then you knew about at that time......

[Judith96a]

I also think it's forgotten here that if you start a relationship with a beard and other masculine attributes, things said woman clearly found attractive about you, you're really asking for trouble removing these things, even temporarily. It's a bit like a super buff body builder immediately letting himself turn fat once the relationship is serious. Women rarely enjoy these changes. Remember, if she liked men without beards and body hair and preferred they wear dresses, you'd have been out on Halloween with her! Did she know about all this from the start? Or later on?

Seriously, Tinkerbell?? So if, on my wedding day I'm sporting a dodgy 70s mullet and a long beard woe betide me if I ever cut the hair or shave off the beard? And especially so if my wife knows that I'm a cross dresser and doesn't approve? That's rather controlling don't ya think? Perhaps Lady Violet, Dowager Countess of Grantham was correct when she said on Downton Abbey last night, "Men don't have rights"

The real question is why are you (or anyone else here, for that matter) having relationships with women who dislike crossdressing??

I can't speak for anyone else but, funnily enough, I love her! When I met her and married her I thought that the cross dressing was a thing of the past; that it was done, finished, history! And, truth be told, my own dislike for cross dressing was, at that time, pretty strong. Several years into our marriage I discovered that the cross dressing wasn't a thing of the past and never would be!
I honestly think that it's a real toss-up as to who has more trouble understanding this cross dressing "thing", those of us who cross dress or our (perhaps long-suffering) wives! I certainly struggle to understand it.

Elisa,
Feel free to vent. I don't have the facial hair issue to deal with (at least not in the same way as you - I wouldn't mind growing a beard for a while but 'er indoors won't hear of it, says that she'll refuse to feed me until I shave it off!) - in my case it's furry limbs! But yes, I understand - it's frustrating and limiting. And, sorry, I've no answers. Just talk and see where that leads!

Best
Judith

[Eringirl]

Hi Elisa. Glad you posted, vent away! We all need to do that sometime, and this is a good place, with so many caring people. You will certainly get a great number of opinions and perspectives which is a good thing. Remember, one size does not fit all. Each situation is unique. I don't speak for all CD's/TG's, just as others don't speak for all GG's, CD's, SO's etc. But you will usually find something/soneone that resonates with you.

As for the body hair, that, to me, is such a personal thing. I mean....really??? If my wife was a brunette when we married and I like brunettes, and she changes her hair colour to blonde do I kick her to the curb?? That is just ludicrous. Her body, her decision. Half the guys at my gym have no body hair. Some have removed it at the behest of their SOs. Some on their own. A few were given No No's from their wives so they could remove their body hair, some chucked them as they said, "no friggin' way, my choice".

We, at least I, didn't choose this. At times I feel more like it was thrust upon me, leaving me to deal with it. What fun...not. We all have our individual situations and deal with it in various ways.But one thing that seems to be a common thread is communication and access to a place/person to speak to about it. Having said that...I am off to another session with my therapist this morning. A great way to spend your birthday...sigh.

Keep in touch with us!!

Erin

[Brianna_H]

Be yourself first and foremost. Love will follow. Is your love for your partner as conditional as hers is for you? You have to decide what you want more, a partnership with benefits or acceptance and twue wuv? Believe in yourself.

[Elisa Lace]

Thanks a lot girls for your support!