So...if it's an emotional NEED to cross-dress...

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Thanks Isha. My H is the sexual/fetish type so it's probably more of a sore spot than need be And I agree - it ultimately doesn't matter why or how, but what you do with it when you get there. Follow your inner truth, whatever that may be, and the questions will disappear.

Isha and Kate Simmons, you are prime examples of people who have done exactly this, and your smiles say it all x

Edit: Okay Katey

[talonX]

Mia, I wanted to bounce back to your original post. I feel like for a lot of CDs/Transpeople/People that there are two kind of conflicting needs - the need to understand where our desires come from, and the need to integrate it into our lives.

I used to spend a fair amount of time reading up on "what makes someone crossdress", trying to find out where this came from because I can remember when the desire had to (or I felt it had to) stay in the closet, and at times it hit me so hard I thought I was going to have an aneurism. I even looked up "how to cure crossdressing" almost of out of desperation (spoiler: you can't). Eventually, I stopped worrying about it so much, and that corresponded with my allowing myself to embrace that side of myself - actually, early on it wasn't "embracing" as much it was just "caving in" - and going out and getting myself something of a new wardrobe. I still wonder what makes me tick and all, but now it's more self-discovery and actually kind of fun. Some of the theories are spectacularly entertaining, too.

As far as the emotional side of it, or fetish vs...uhm non-fetish, I stopped trying to categorize these things. Admittedly, this may not be for everyone, but I look at it this way. I like pizza. A lot. I don't worry about why I like pizza, or what happened in my childhood that made me like pizza, I just enjoy it and it doesn't hurt anyone. I also like garterbelts and stockings. On me and on GGs. On me I love the way they look and feel, and it's more empowering than anything (I think that's tied in to my love of comics, but that's a topic for another post). On GGs it's definately a sexual turn on.I could go on and on, but I think my point is that everyone's inner life is complicated, and not everything has to be condensed into a one-word category. Whether or not stockings are a fetish for me...I don't feel like I need to break it down that way.

Emotionally, I find this way of thinking soothing. I am also a big bucket of other issues that I need to deal with, but few of them, if any, have to do with my crossdressing.

[NicoleScott]

talonX, second paragraph above, SAME HERE! I still want to know but no longer need to know, It's just curiosity now.
As a teen, contemplating why I crossdress, reading all I could find on it, getting no answers, my eyes become fixed on a picture of a pretty woman in a short skirt, great legs, hair and makeup, killer high heels, feeling blood move from my brain to another organ.....oh yes, THAT'S why I crossdress.

[Mia Brankovic]

TalonX...thank you very much for that most wonderful post...maybe, for once in my life...I'll allow the current to take me where it will (watching out for rapids, obviously . The personal inner answers will come in time (patience)...We sound very much similar...I shall take your advise...

thank you all...I'm satisfied with the outcome of this thread.

[Nadine Spirit]

I know for many, dressing is a sexual fetish.

For me, it is not. It was confusing for awhile in my life as I have always been super sexual and thus everything got me excited, including a knot hole in a fence! Having gone back and seen the reality of my cross gender behaviors beginning within my life from a super young age, I have to assume this is something I was born with.

For a bit, connecting it with sex somehow made it okay. It allowed me to express it out loud, by being able to say to my SO, now my wife, "oh it is just a sexual thing and doesn't mean anything about my internal feelings about being a man or a woman, it just gets me off." But the more I dressed, the more I didn't want it having anything to do with sex as it just felt wrong.

Nowadays, it really does not matter to me what other explanations others offer up for their dressing. I know I was born this way. It is not a learned behavior. It does not have the sexual fetish connection that so many others do. It is a part of who I am, and always has been.

[Mia Brankovic]

Nadine, thank you for sharing...I too was super sexual...I gave new meaning to the term "Tree-hugger" LMAO (I slay Me!) hahaha

Maybe that's where it started, and hence my sexually oriented thread? hmm, Thank you, once again.

Nadine, that knot hole reference was just perfect

[Amy Fakley]

Well I mean if you type "crossdressing" into google, you'll find out with a quickness just exactly why so many of us want to establish distance from the fetish scene.

Without a doubt there a lots of people in the world for who transvestic fetishism is a big big thing. It'd be hard to deny such people exist, to the vanilla world they are pretty much the faceplate. You tell someone that you have trans issues and 90% of the time they think you mean you're way into some variation of porn and wanting to dance in assless chaps and pink pasties atop a float in the love parade.

Not that there's anything wrong with that I guess, but it's never been anything even remotely to do with me. For me it has not ever been about that. For me, it has been about identity, and maybe it is for the fetishists too, I don't know ... but it certainly seems like a different wave they're on, at least from my perspective.

For whatever reason, putting on women's clothes, makeup, and prosthetic breasts, lights up a part of my brain like fireworks on the 4th of July ... it makes me feel like all the puzzle pics fit together, and I feel the peace and wholeness I've been seeking my entire life ... and yeah sometimes I wonder if maybe I'd made different decisions earlier in my life, if it'd not just been better if I'd taken steps to make this my default state of being. Maybe I'd have been a happier person, I don't even know. That sure doesn't mean I think I'm a woman, or that I have a woman's brain. Certainly there are parallels but without a doubt, they are different things.

maybe it's a crutch, like stevie said. I suppose in some ways it definitely is, but you know what ... crutches are a freakin' genius invention ... tools that allow you to overcome ...

And I agree with Paula, comparisons with "adult babies", "furries", and amputee fetishists really go too far. The difference is that half of the damn world walks around essentially being the kind of person that at I want to be when I'm dressed. I defy you to give me an example of a real life warewolf, of an honest to god functioning "adult baby" (not living in a nursing home with profound mental issues). Just one will do.

[Stephanie47]

I'm going to stick to whether or not there is an emotional side to my desire to wear women's clothing. Every person goes through periods of development. When I started dabbling in my mother's lingerie, there was a degree of sexuality to it. Guys had a tendency to masturbate as teens because, well, it is normal behavior. If I were to masturbate while wearing lingerie as an early teen I would not consider myself to be a fetish dresser. I really did not establish any sexual routine that you accompany arousal. If as an adult I found I had a calling to wear a garter belt and hosiery every time when I enjoyed sexual activity, I'd say I was a fetish dresser. I think in order to be characterized as a fetish dresser, it is necessary to do something out of the norms established by society. If you wife or girl friend thinks it may be fun to slip a nightie on you and jump your bones one night, that does not make you a fetish dresser. Repetitive behavior is necessary,

So, where does my cross dressing fit in? I do not derive sexual gratification from being en femme. It comes down to establishing by definition what a fetish dresser may be. As long as you or anyone else clearly states what's YOUR definition there will be no confusion. My definition may be different than your definition. As long as there is full disclosure of the "ground rules" there is no confusion.

Me? Cross dressing brought me peace and tranquility from the male rat race. I had a stressful job for over thirty years. It was always adversarial. I guess I could have used alcohol or drugs or chased women for relief. That was not in my past, so it did not enter the thought processes in my mind. Donning women's attire seemed to bring that escape from day to day reality. I fully know I am not a genetic male. That does not bother me. So, today after I am done banging away on this keyboard I will be baking a cherry cake. I am fully en femme. As a retire I should be stress free and have no need to wear my pretty dresses. But, this has been going on for so long I am no longer "driven" to wear a dress. It has become as natural as wearing my male jeans and tee shirts.

[Kandi Robbins]

For me it was sexual until the moment I accepted myself as a crossdresser. It then became something else, not sure what yet, but something else.

[PaulaQ]

I don't believe that having a sexual component to cross dressing defines it as being "fetish." That certainly wasn't my experience - not even close. There was always a sexual component to my CDing until I came out to myself as a transgender woman. There were, when I was younger, periods when that wasn't what it was all about. But I tended to focus on the sexual side of it for a couple of reasons:
1. My opportunities to CD, particular after I got caught doing it as a kid, became few, far between, and short. I simply didn't feel I could risk anything that took much time. I lived in fear, and stole moments when I could.
2. I felt enormous guilt over all of this, the sexual parts of it, the confusion over my gender, and the confusion over my own sexual orientation. I was certain there was something terribly wrong with me.

My main problem with the "fetish dresser" / "cross dresser" / "transsexual" labels is that some of us seem to get lulled into this sense of security that just because they tack a label on someone, it means they can tell something about the future about that person. You simply cannot do that.

If you think that someone who gets labeled as a "fetish dresser" never transitions, then you need to think again. I did, and I know other women who have.

Putting labels we don't understand on a condition we don't understand in the hopes that this magically prevents something awful from happening is, at best, wishful thinking.

BTW, it was a very strong emotional need to cross dress. The mental anguish I felt over pretending to be a man was the worst pain I've ever experienced. I didn't really understand that this was even what I was feeling, or the source of it, until the end. I just knew that I hated my face, my body (especially my body hair). I was not very comfortable with my genitals. I hated myself, every minute aspect of my being. Cross dressing alleviated those feelings for a time. I didn't understand that this was even what was going on until early in 2013. It can be VERY difficult to understand what you are feeling.

[Sarah Doepner]

First Reine hit it out of my ballpark with her comment. I've considered this to the case for a long time, but didn't have the link to the research.

. . . Back to the article, they've looked at the brain's reward circuitry and have found that blood flow in dopamine-rich areas indicate that the same neural circuitry is involved in the highs and lows of winning money, abusing drugs, or anticipating a gastronomical treat. Other research is showing there are many other types of rewards, including exercise, chocolate, music, and beauty (I'm wondering if for some CDers it might be feminine beauty) that affect the same reward circuits. Some of you mentioned sex, and it is important to consider that other things than sex bring pleasure to the brain.

I would like to see more research in the area of neuroadaptation as it concerns individuals who engage in cross-gender expression.

My own position? I just don't know. Even neuroadaptivity must have a scale and may be combined with other factors.

Regardless of the type of pleasure, physical or emotional, if we do this long enough and get positive results we will continue to pursue it. Eventually we may just find just wearing the clothing and doing the makeup is sufficient to get where we need to be. This seems to follow the common experience of long time crossdressers who are unable to dress for extended periods and get pretty darn cranky with everyone around them. It happened to me. So is there an emotional need to dress? It seems there could be once we manage to refine that experience and substitute just dressing for anything beyond that activity. And while neuroadaptivity may be combined with other factors, there can be many things that can provide that positive reinforcement that brings us back to dressing once again. Consider more than the magic of seeing the transformation in the mirror or the luxurious feeling of some of the materials, but once we get social rewards from others we are going to be much more likely to return to the behavior. Support groups, web forums, friends and approving spouses will all push some emotional buttons that further encourage further exploration. And yes, sexual satisfaction would be a very strong motivator as well.

Then Kandi sums up that refined experience with a point of reference in the growth of an individual.

For me it was sexual until the moment I accepted myself as a crossdresser. It then became something else, not sure what yet, but something else.

It may not be that point for everyone, but looking back, it was close to that for me as well. I can't tell you what IT is now either. However, I too saw a change in how I responded to the experience once I accepted myself as a crossdresser. My view of the experience changed and acquired more depth and meaning. My world became more complex, and in a way it represents the possibilities that exist that didn't before that moment. So my answer is yes, there is an emotional need to crossdress as I continue to work on creating my vision of who I am and what goals I have as an individual.

[ReineD]

I understand why the word "fetish" gets people up in arms. It was viewed (and might still be in some circles) as some sort of deviant behavior.

But, now sex therapists are recognizing that alternative sexual interest is normal and even healthy. So if a CDer dresses for sexual reasons and has a fulfilling life, what's wrong with that?

In any event, I was not suggesting earlier that all CDers obtain sexual pleasure from the CDing. Some do and some don't. To suggest otherwise is utopian. And it was sexual for many if not most CDers during their younger years (we've had long threads about this) although this does change with age for many. But, pleasurable it is for many people even though it does not culminate in orgasm, at least according to many reports here.

Tink, you mentioned AB earlier. Some ABs would be highly insulted if you told them they did this for sexual reasons. The camp is divided in that community, between those for whom it is sexual, and those who see it as a part of their core identity. I saw a good video by an articulate spokesperson for the community and if I find it again, I'll send it to you.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Thanks Reine, I'd love to see it. And I'm not surprised there is as much devision in the AB world as this one. You're right that the word 'fetish' is often misheard as 'deviant' or 'unnatural'. But there have been many an article out lately that suggest alternative sexual practices are no more unnatural than being heterosexual or homosexual and likely even have a place in evolution.

In the end, it's all such a personal journey. Only the person walking it really knows who they are.

[Sarah Doepner]

. . . In the end, it's all such a personal journey. Only the person walking it really knows who they are.

Such a good thought, it's unfortunate that there are so many who feel the need to label, classify and lump others together. Sometimes it's an effort to understand and at other times it's to judge. That's why this forum has kept my attention for so long, it's made up of those who want to understand and be understood.

[Mia Brankovic]

Oops!...you folks are still chattin' away! (I had to go and powder my nose...). So, I'm just seeing if the thread is on track...(something struck me the last time, when Katey had to redirect).

You see...the original thought eliminated the whole fetish element and yet, that issue continues to surface! How very interesting! We were to discuss the Emotional effect of CDing (which is being done...openly and 'Freudianly'). Thank you all for being open & honest...communication, in this fashion, is priceless!

Amy...this is a wonderful post concerning how society's view of CDing relates to a sexual 'obsession' (fetish, porn...some hairy a$$ed guys prancing around in panties claiming to be 'a princess'...you know, me on a Saturday night. LMAO ). Well my dear...this is not on topic, or is it? (more in a moment). In response to your (and Stephanie's post, somewhat): the only way to change the public's image is thru self-promotion, education & advocacy.
Now, unto the good 'stuff'...this thread continue to slide into the fetish (or Society Sexual view of Cders)...I strongly believe that 'That One Issue' may be at the heart of many of the negative emotional repercussion of this venture. Negative emotions cause stress (the wrong type), this type of stress is never good.

Now, most of you'z used terms like: Peace, serenity, tranquility, happy, etc...when describing your inner emotions; however, the only negative external stressor was: Public Opinion...and you all are doing yourselves emotional damage...so what we all gonna do 'bout it?

Be the change.

[talonX]

Mia, a couple of (hopefully not trite) quotes

"..all revolutions are ultimately revolutions of one." (any real change is on a personal level)
from the comic Phonogram, a truely awesome comic about the magic of music, personal change, and identity. Mostly about music, though.

"If you want to be somebody else,
If you're tired of fighting battles with yourself
If you want to be somebody else
Change your mind..."
Sister Hazel, from the song "Change your mind"

One thought that I had after reading a lot of the other posts, and how everyone felt about dressing and how those feelings and attitudes evolved as they, not necessarily embraced it, but started to explore it.

If someone has a drinking problem and wants to stop, the first step is always "stop drinking". If someone was struggling with the desires to crossdress or explore other aspects of their gender identity, the first step should be "start dressing". It isn't enough to be on that path, you have to start walking down it.

[Mia Brankovic]

Talon, I disagree with you on your final statement; "It isn't enough to be on that path, you have to start walking down it."...I had to crawl to the curb, my nylons are proof (lol)...I haven't started walkin' down 'it' yet, cause I'm just learnin' to walk in heels! Seriously though...I would think that just making it to the path would present the majority of the inner turmoil for an individual even considering/entertaining the idea?

BTW: I liked the lyrics

Thank you for your input, Talon...we can talk later, if you wish?

[Lori Kurtz]

Some fascinating reading here. But I don't think we should be surprised that nobody has come up with a definitive conclusion. We have so many different ways of responding to our urge or interest or desire or need or addiction or rewiring or whatever you want to call it, there's never going to be a one size fits all explanation. What's important for us--each of us individually--is to figure out what we want, what we enjoy, what helps our life, what enhances us as human beings, what the effects of what we do are on the people we love, and then find ways to do what's best in the light of all those insights.

[Mia Brankovic]

Hi Lori...very well said...

"What's important for us--each of us individually--is to figure out what we want, what we enjoy, what helps our life, what enhances us as human beings, what the effects of what we do are on the people we love, and then find ways to do what's best in the light of all those insights."

This is perhaps the secret to Life...almost a purpose...find and embrace what makes you happy in this Life...I'm paraphrasing (I hope you don't mind)...I like that thought...Thank you, Lori (true Wisdom!)

A happy you...is a better you!

[talonX]

Thanks Mia, and it's been good talking. My life is a little (a lot) chaotic the next few days, but we'll have to find a time. I'd like chatting very much!