My liberal wife thinks all TVs are gay

[silkycdresser]

Sometimes I think my wife and I are in a DADT relationship, as I sometimes outwardly include "like the fact I smoke and crossdress" in a sentence, but she never really engages and asks anything.

She's very liberal, thinking everyone should love everyone, no matter who they are, as long as they're not a murderer or something. When we watch shows on TV and any homophobia is expressed, it makes her angry, as she has lots of gay friends and thinks homosexuality is fine and should be respected.

So it's really strange how sometimes when I mention crossdressing, she says "Oh God, I wonder if our kids will end up gay too. All transvestites are gay, you know?" How narrow-minded, in my view! I only have sexual feelings for women and have often thought of myself as a repressed lesbian rather than a homosexual man.

[PaulaQ]

Some talking points, since presumably you are out to her:
1. Why would it matter whether or not our kids were gay?
2. The term "transvestite" is considered insulting now - don't use it. Use "cross dresser" instead.
3. Most crossdressers - the big majority are heterosexual men. They wear women's clothes sometimes, but they are otherwise normal men. There are gay and bisexual crossdressers, but they aren't the majority.
4. I'm a crossdresser - you realize this, right? I wear women's clothes - surely you've noticed this? I'm not gay - if I were, we probably wouldn't have any kids, because I wouldn't have sex with you. But look over there - children. I'm not gay!

Seriously, though, she is probably worried about where your CDing may lead, or what it may mean, and just not know how to ask about it. Fear of your being gay, and ultimately leaving her, is what is probably driving this. She may well deny that, too.

Really she's worried about the wrong thing. The big relationship ending event she should worry about instead is whether or not you are transsexual and will come to her one day telling her that you are a woman. That probably won't happen either, but it is more likely than you being gay. (Ironically enough though, were you to transition, you'd be a gay woman.)

[sandra-leigh]

2. The term "transvestite" is considered insulting now - don't use it. Use "cross dresser" instead.

I gather that depends a lot on where you are; my reading has suggested that transvestite is used more (and considered appropriate) in the UK.

[silkycdresser]

Sanda-Leigh is right about that.

And I guess although my wife SAYS she is liberal and open-minded, she is a NIMBY when it comes to her own family, you're right.

[Que-cera-cera girl]

I agree with vickie_cdtv. If your wife would join this site she would see that you all arent gay. I know this from experience cuz Im a wife of a cd and I just didnt know. So my fiance (who is a cd n as straight as can be) found this site. We both use the site for help and to help others understand. If your wife will join tell her to look me up (Que-cera-cera girl) id be happy to try to help her.
P. S. That goes for anyone who needs to talk, vent, advice, or just chit chat, feel free to look me up.

[AshleyScott]

Mes amis, bonjour...

Thank you to all who have contributed to this thread - it demonstrates one of the fine attributes that bring me back to this forum, i.e. reasoned discussion.

A long story, that I'll try to keep brief. Sitting outside a café in my local market during the summer, chatting with locals and sipping coffee, I was approached nervously by a young lady in her early 40's. She asked if she could sit with me and proceeded to ask me about the "community" here in France, explaining that she and her girl friend didn't know there was a gay community in this part of the country.

Now the inference didn't phase me, she (Amanda) was genuinely friendly and we chatted for quite some time - eventually exchanging mobile numbers, with the promise to keep in touch.

Two days later she phoned me and asked if I would like to dine with her and extended visiting family at her mother's holiday home, which is close by, adding that I should dress as I please. I accepted and did (dress to please me)

The family (3 generations) made me feel very welcome and we spent a long and comfortable evening together - mostly they inquired about every-day living in France, but with the occasional reference to my taste in clothes (nothing too nosey and quite a lot of laughter).

We met up on a couple of subsequent occasions before their return to the UK... and have kept in touch since.

In November I had reason to go to London and Amanda & Gemma (now fiancée) invited me to stay for a couple of nights - specifically so that we could "play". Playing meant Amanda taking me shopping followed by an evening trip into Soho to a "gay" club (Freedom - for those of you who might like to know). We had a good evening and my look and taste in clothes was complimented on several occasions - by both males and females and never once in a "sexual" way.

All in all, a very pleasant experience (for those of you who have yet to venture "out)

I don't try to pass... no wig, no make up... just a man who likes a particular "feminine" style of clothing.

I'm married to my First Wife for 42 years and have 9 grand-children. I've had sex with a few men in my life, but for the most part, prefer sex with a woman

I dress the way I do because I like the look. I think it looks good on me and it makes me feel good (why else would people dress in the way that they do?).

But I ask "Have YOU been asked THE question yet?"?.

Has anyone (apart from on this forum) ever asked YOU why YOU like to "cross dress"? Apologies if I've highjacked the thread

[NicoleScott]

Transvestite is a perfectly good word.

[Cheryl T]

Well, you can tell her that my wife of 39 years would disagree with her statement.

[MisterEgurl]

Is there a term for people like this? I certainly know more than a few where every difference of opinion, lifestyle, choice, culture, and orientation is fine, but only on TV or somewhere that one won't actually interact with those differences on a personal level. Sometimes it's a blanket case, covering all differences, and other times it's just one particular thing; they're fine with everyone and everything "Except if our son/daughter brought home a !$%&* ******!" My sister-in-law is the same way. She spouts a lot of grand talk about tolerance of views and lifestyles, mostly, it seems to me as a show of her superior mind, but in the same breath will bemoan our gay cousins. The cognitive disconnect is so shocking and contradictory. It's like the reverse of those congresspersons who are totally against homosexuality and publicly rail against the "homosexual agenda" until their son or daughter comes out.

The real show of a persons mind is when it becomes personal.

[GeauxStacy]

I find that most folks like your wife fall into the NIMB (Not In My Backyard) crowd. They are fine when it is everyone else, but not if it is in their house or close to them. And that can be with anything being how they feel about CDs, minorities, going green, gun control, or anything really. I do not like that way of thinking because they are saying what they think other people want to hear, rather than expressing how they really feel. To me that means no integrity. Who you are in public should be the same way you are at home. Just my two cents or maybe a penny?

[ReineD]

I find that most folks like your wife fall into the NIMB (Not In My Backyard) crowd. They are fine when it is everyone else, but not if it is in their house or close to them.

Exactly. I love to hang out with gay men, but I would not want to be married to one.

But seriously, if one or more of my sons were gay, I'd welcome him with open arms. I'd encourage a long-term relationship with someone and hopefully, eventually adopting a child if this is what he'd like. I'd hate to think that he might miss out on that. Still, I'd be concerned about living in a world that is not always kind to gay men or their children. The rules are changing and there have been great advances made in recent years legally, but there are still many societal barriers simply because homosexuals represent a small percentage of our population. People can acknowledge gay rights and even champion them, but at the same time see the gay community as separate and distinct from themselves.

[jessica33]

I find that most folks like your wife fall into the NIMB (Not In My Backyard) crowd. They are fine when it is everyone else, but not if it is in their house or close to them. And that can be with anything being how they feel about CDs, minorities, going green, gun control, or anything really. I do not like that way of thinking because they are saying what they think other people want to hear, rather than expressing how they really feel. To me that means no integrity. Who you are in public should be the same way you are at home. Just my two cents or maybe a penny?

You took the words right out of my mouth .

[NicoleScott]

Katey, shoe-fetishists have sex involving shoes. Does this mean there is a new sexual preference for them? Shoe-o-sexual? (lol)


So how do we count people who use men as props to heighten their fantasy of being a sexually desirable woman, since there is no attraction to men when they are in male mode? I have a difficult time defining this as bi-sexual. Are they having sex with men? Yes. Are they fundamentally attracted to men? No. And how often have they tried having sex with men ... once or twice over the course of a lifetime? Are they habitually in relationships with the opposite-sex?

Shoe-o-sexual? That doesn't sound right. I prefer stiletto-sexual, even if not all-inclusive.

I used to chat with men in AOL CDer chatrooms, and share my photos. There's something intoxicating, even for a straight male-identified CDer, about the attraction of a man to my crossdressed image. But the men are always faceless and generic. Any fantasies I ever had about men were about me, not them. I just liked the attention. I was attracted not to them, but to their attraction to me. Just props. On the other hand, any fantasies I ever had about women were detailed, with very clear images about their faces and bodies, nice legs, hair, makeup, clothes, and (oh yes) shoes. Different, but in both cases just fantasies. Never had a sexual encounter with a man, and never strayed from my wife. I know there are members who believe that of you fantasize about men, you're gay or bi. I don't think so.

A similar argument (about definitions): what is a crossdresser? By definition, if you wear the clothes of the opposite....blah blah.... But many definitions add "for sexual or emotional reasons". If a man wears women's clothes for entertainment or costume (external reasons) but not driven from within, that's not crossdressing, or at least he's not a crossdresser. How about the man who IS driven from within but for any of several reasons has NEVER actually put on the clothes? He's not a crossdresser (yet). Both the desire and the act are necessary to be called a CDer. I see Reine's discussion (men as props) in a similar way.

Fantasies notwithstanding, I know I'm not gay/bi because: I never did the act, and when my fantasies start to drift into sex with a man, they break down immediately. What a buzz-kill.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

She's very liberal...

...when it suits her.

It's a bit like champagne socialists sending their kids to expensive private schools. No matter what she professes publicly, the truest test of character is what she says at home.

[Vickie_CDTV]

She says she knows gay people and has gay friends and thinks being gay is fine... perhaps if she got to know some TVs personally and talked to us she'd find out that most of us are not gay.

[Greenie]

From the wife girlfriend perspective.

Don't be too harsh on her. The first thing that all wives ask when their CDer husband comes out is what "Are you gay?". It comes from a place a fear and misunderstanding of what a cross-dresser is. Our world and most people in it have been raised to believe in the gender binary. There are men, and women restrooms. Men and women hair products. Men and women's ETC ETC ETC. Even the idea of who can be attracted to another human being has been "Dumbed down" to only 3 possible options. (Whilst we know isn't true) Man man, man woman, woman woman. Since the CDer wants to portray as a woman our brains can jumble this up to think that our SO is either gay and likes men, or wants to become a woman.

Even the most liberal of people can have a hard time wrapping their mind around the idea. The fear and misunderstanding sets in. If you transition to a woman, or want to be seen as a woman, are you attracted to men? (Many a hetero cross-dresser here has said yes). But when the CDer answers no.... This confuses the whole foundation of what the wife has been normalized to believe. Through experience and mainstream education. Suddenly their heterosexual cisgendered partner, wants to change the cisgendered part, I think its a normal question to assume that they want to change the Heterosexual part too.

While incorrect, where in mainstream media or education are people taught about other genders and sexuality. I am only 24, and even in my recent college experience, our cultural anthropology classes do not discuss the stray from what is "gender norm"

I myself and very open minded, but had a very hard time with this concept when my SO came out to me. And like most women the first question I asked was "Are you gay?" How could my cisgendered Heterosexual boyfriend, like to watch trans porn and dress like a woman? HE MUST not follow the conventional idea of what is means to "be a man"

I see a lot of judgement of your wife on this thread. Probably the way you posted the OP. We have no idea of her real tone or intention because she is not here. But often I joke with Luca to break the tension but also sometimes out of fear. Fear of what is not inevitable, but still possible and scary. Now, you do need to sit down with her and have a conversation about how she speaks about people like you and how it hurts your feelings. But this seems like more of a communication problem that can be overcome.

[Suzie Petersen]

Well said Reine. That makes sense and I agree.

- Suzie

[Mystery]

I agree with ya'll. I'm a cd who likes women. However, when I dress en femme, I take on that persona. I act and feel very womanly. not silly, but seriously. I think I'd be thrilled if a man treated me as such, but I don't know if I could, for instance, kiss him. It is a quandry in my mind sometimes. Early in life, and for many years, I could not reconcile this. Not until I was in contact with such info as this forum provides. I was ashamed at times, because I could not figure this out. It didn't occur to me that there could actually be category of folk who cd but still favor being with women.

[Tracii G]

The general masses don't really understand that 85-90% of CD's are heterosexual.
The thought is you would HAVE to be gay to even dream of dressing in womens clothes and we all know that is not the reality of it.

[kimdl93]

My guess is that her comments are more of an expression of her frustration with you than her knowledge or beliefs about CDing. Maybe you can find another way to engage her in the discussion....and put out the cigarette.

[audreyinalbany]

It seems as though a lot of people who are prejudice are prejudice toward the group as a whole, but manage to find exceptions in their personal lives. I know I guy who thinks that black people are lazy, except for the black people he has known personally, they're "good workers." Go figure. I don't know if this is a result of growing up with a f*&#ed up family or what, but I've noticed it more than once, more so, of course, with the older generation.

[Dianne S]

Why would your wife think that a gay man would be attracted to a crossdressing partner any more than a straight woman would be? If you want a man (whether you're a straight woman or a gay man) you're probably going to be turned off by someone who presents as a woman.

I'm sure there are some gay crossdressers... odds are the same proportion as gay people in general. But the two things are orthogonal.

[Sarasometimes]

Most phobias are a result of poor or incorrect information because by definition it is an unreasonable amount of fear toward something real or perceived. You mention that she has gay friends which may make her more acutely aware of the difficulties they endure and that is why she would prefer her children not have to go through that as well. The CD's are gay falsehood is very deeply seated in society in my neck of the woods.
To gay phobics, if they embraced that idea that being gay is not a choice then the phobia goes away! I have an ignorant co-worker who really doesn't like my slip on shoes because they are in his mind they are "gay". It is difficult when there are still large numbers of society that put labels like this on a piece of clothing! We really are beyond the comprehension level of these type folks.

[Rhonda Jean]

Just about everybody who is not a cd thinks cds are gay.

My wife (ex) used to show her disgust with me by commenting on other cd's or gays. Kind of a passive-aggressive thing. I got the message. Didn't do anything about it, but I got the message.

[Katey888]

This has to be down to the individual... Yes it's NIMBY-like behaviour, and it's hypocritical, but that's a tough one to overcome in people - humans tend to be a bit two-faced about this type of thing... What's surprising is that being exposed to you, she still has this misunderstanding...?

Yes, it may feel strange to us, but it's a very common mode of response - look hard enough and you can see similar things within our community too... It's about education and understanding, but still not everyone will grasp it - let's face it, narrow-minded people are everywhere; it's so easy to be like that. Being broad-minded requires a bit of psychological effort: loosening and stretching those boundaries... few people can be bothered.

Katey x