Question from a GG

[Zylia]

Lisa, just to put a few things in perspective: you're asking a bunch of middle-aged, somewhat conservative men for dating advice here. Just because a lot of us have a rather eccentric 'hobby' doesn't make us any more or less capable to answer your questions. I reckon that most of us have no meaningful experience, except as the cross-dressing husband in a (unhappy) relationship. In general, whenever someone on the internet gives you some advice, you might want to keep in mind that they usually have no stake in the outcome.

Some here seem to argue that the continuation of a marriage is more important than the personal happiness of one of the partners. This is a moral or even a religious discussion I'm not going to deal with. I just want to say that all is relative.

Your friend has the right to make his own choices (or mistakes). Your friend's wife has the right to know if he's not happy in his relationship. You all deserve your own happiness. You like him for who he is which is wonderful; make sure he likes you for who you are, not for what you enable.

[Kate T]

I don't think most here are deliberately judging you. Frankly they are probably judging your friend more than you. But I can see how it feels that way. As for the CD dating site thing, I don't get that.

You want to know if DADT has an emotional effect on the CD. I don't know as I am in a long term relationship (married 18 years) with an amazingly supportive wife. However from what I have read yes I think it can be emotionally damaging for the CD. I think it can be emotionally damaging for the SO as well. Am I surprised that he has reached out to someone for emotional support. No. Frankly, and please take no offence at this, but given his age I doubt that it is deliberately manipulative on his part. I suspect he is genuinely just looking for emotional comfort. Are you happy to give that to him? Up to you. I have always stated on these forums my strong opposition to DADT relationships and your experience here with this person is one of the classic examples of why I believe them to be undesirable in a majority of situations.

Just make sure you don't get hurt and that you don't hurt someone else.

[AllieSF]

Well said Zylia.

Lisa,

It is always interesting how additional information clarifies the situation to the point of changing some peoples mind, like mine. We can only write so much and yet, sometimes that is still not enough to accurately explain a complicated situation. Your further posts helped me a lot. It is nice that you are there as support for him and I think whatever happens was meant to happen. Good luck.

[Michelle (Oz)]

This is where I am feeling judged. I am 52 and he is 72. Is that such a horrible age difference?

Lisa, I admire you for seeking comments from those like us who are not emotionally involved and yet understand the CDing bit. I wish I had done so 16 years ago.

In sharing something with you about my second marriage I need to stress that I didn't cheat on my first wife. She and I had separated after 26 years of marriage and 2 children. The romance had died some time before and the children had left home - maybe the empty nest syndrome. I think that cheating would simply further increase the baggage.

The difference in ages with my second wife was 17 years. Although it was quickly obvious that our relationship was a mistake, we hung on for 10 years with younger children involved. The main factors in our relationship ending had much to do with the age difference. In the latter years we had very different perspectives on life, work, money, children and responsibilities. Yes he will want to give you gifts because he thinks that will make you happy (I wish my ex wasn't so greedy) and encourage your friendship. It is how older men hope to encourage friendships with younger women. With a wife and children his financial position will come under pressure.

I'm not judging you and age might not be a barrier. However, the odds (and life expectancy tables) are very much against you even leaving aside the CDing piece. In 10 years you will be a sprightly 62; he will be 82. Listen to your head and not your heart.

Michelle xx

[PaulaQ]

Hon, I would advise you to drop this man.

I was once involved in something like this, I ignored a good friend's advice, and I really regretted it later.

1. You don't know this man. Not really - and all the stuff you DON'T know, your mind is almost certainly filling in with what it wants to be true.
2. Men will lie for sex. They'll tell really outrageous lies.
3. I'm sympathetic about a DADT relationship - I am. But the fact he'll mess around online, rather than deal with his real life relationship should be a big red flag to you.

Honey, if he'll cheat with you, how do you expect him to be when YOU are his SO?

Lisa, how do you even know it's DADT, separate bedrooms, and a rocky marriage? I was told much the same, and it wasn't true. Finding out about that was emotionally devastating to me.

Just be careful, and don't get hurt.

[Stephanie47]

I read through your Q&A. You're an adult fully capable of making your decision. He's an adult fully capable of making his decision. From your description of his life, he seems to have it all except he's in a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" relationship. I suspect if he is sleeping in a nightie his wife is aware of his cross dressing, and, they have reached an accommodation agreeable to both. Maybe his adult kids are aware of the arrangement. Is he ready to potentially throw away his established life? If he under dresses and sleeps in nighties, I think his cross dressing is rather tame. You raise the issue of age differences and his somewhat waning years- 72 vs 52. He and his wife have grown older together. Their relationship, which may seem abnormal and lacking to you, may have been negotiated over forty plus years and based on mutual respect and love. Of course, he is probably smitten because he now has a "pen pal" who would seem to be more accepting of his cross dressing.

I'm in a DADT marriage of over forty years. I have adult children and I have a grandchild. I have no debt. Our home is owned free and clear. My pension income exceeds the wages of my wife three fold. We do what we want, when we want. Would I like it if my wife wanted me to be Stephanie for her? Would I like it if I made our evening meal attired in a dress, heels, hosiery, wig and makeup? I don't know. If a woman came along and made me that offer I would not accept it. My marriage is based on a heck of a lot more than any one aspect of life.

You really do not know anything about this man. I guess you can pay a couple of dollars and have a back ground check done. It'll give you just about everything there may be out there on him, except for who he really is. You only have his words as pounded out on a keyboard. I would be careful.

As to separate sleeping arrangements..there may be nothing to it other than snoring keeps both of them awake. I have it on good authority from my kids and grandchild that both of us snore. And, it is really loud. Also, we both have significant nerve damage that makes each of us toss and turn and groan through the pain. Many times we sleep separately. Funny thing! When we sleep apart we both arise more refreshed for the day ahead of us..together.

Personally, my love for my wife transcends whether or not I can sleep in a nightie. No way would I give up my kids and grandchild(ren) and home so I could have a woman who may find me sexy at 72 sitting around in a nightie or fully en femme.

You ask what would I do? If I had any sense and if I was not senile I would break it off.

[Shelly Preston]

Lisa, I think the fact you have become friends is lovely.

You have been given a lot of good advice so far and I hope it helps

I am sure he is delighted with your support.

There are too many issues involved to know exactly what is going on.

I would suggest you don't take this any further as I can't see it having a good outcome.

[Marcelle]

Hi Stephanie,

I can only echo what Zylia said, which was aptly put. We (CDers) tend to get preoccupied with thinking everything we do is dishonest because we choose to dress like a woman from time to time . . . "Not telling your wife you dress . . . dishonest" . . . "Having an online emotionally supportive conversation with another woman . . . dishonest". IMHO we all make decisions good or bad which have nothing to do with cross dressing. Will this man ever leave his wife for you? I can't answer that question because I don't know his whole story. It is likely he has found a person who he can discuss a very important part of his life with and there may be nothing there beyond emotional support but then again that is what friendships are for. It is possible you have become a sounding board he uses for an emotional outlet he cannot avail himself at home.

I have to admit I am a bit saddened by all the "cheating" rhetoric as you have never indicated that it has gone that far and are just having an online discussion. If you had been a guy, most here would have seen you as a great and supportive person helping out a fellow person through a difficult time. If you were to pursue a romantic relationship with the person . . . well that is a decision you would both make as adults and I won't comment of moral issues as I am in no position to judge. Sometimes what the heart wants the heart must have and if it was meant to be, it will be.

All this to say, I believe you have a bit of a conundrum on your part. There is nothing wrong with nurturing a friendship (heck I have plenty of GG friends and nobody accuses me of cheating on my wife). However, if the relationship grows beyond the confines of friendship, then you will both have to do some soul searching.

Hugs

Isha

[Claire Cook]

Lisa,

I think these are potentially deep waters. It sounds as though you are filling a niche that his wife can't fill, and when a GG fills that CD support niche, that can be a potent elixir for a CD'er. Like Isha, I'm married to a supportive wife and I have GG friends -- but we're girl friends, and whatever intimacies we share are the kinds women talk about. Certainly no sexual involvement.

[kimdl93]

You've heard various forms of the same thing. What can I add? You're relatively young, but don't waste your precious time with a married man, no matter how he portrays his situation.

[CDPheobe]

Hi lisa. Yeah its all fine and we'll chatting, but reality comes along and it does not seem right. Separate room, long distance relationship, married, lives in same home as wife, etc. To me, all bad. There's plenty of CDERS all over where you live. Take a physical look around. This online relationship stands a high chance of not working out.

[Linda Leigh]

Lisa, I agree you should not get involved with a married man, as other have said there so many single men out there that are CD'ers or not that want a relationship Please be careful with this.

Hugs

Linda Leigh

[Lynn Marie]

I've been the "married man" in a similar situation as the one you are going through. Also, "technically", I wasn't cheating either but actually I very much was. It was the emotional attachment that I was seeking and found! I'm sure as hell not proud of what I did, but it was instrumental in helping me get the courage to pursue a divorce from a woman that I didn't even like any more. Trust me, DADT is the foundation of a mighty big wall between people.

The really good part? For me, I'm happier and more content than I've ever been in my life. My ex doesn't talk to me but has gotten back into the real world and is doing well. BTW, I'm 71 and my best gg girlfriend is gorgeous and 44 and loves me in "hunky boy" mode as well as Lynn Marie. Oh yeah, she's not the lady who helped me find my courage 8 years ago.

[Lisa9099]

To clear up any confusion:

He bought some items from me online via a shopping venue. He was not online looking to date and neither was I (nor has either of us stated that it is our intention). He e-mailed me about his purchase and told me that he was a married man and had grown children, etc. I think he probably has some underlying issues with how people may perceive him and he wanted me to know that he was a straight man.

I was a bit intrigued and asked further questions (for how long, does your wife know, etc.). He said he’s more than obliged to answer any questions that I have. I called him as I thought it was best for us both to know who we are talking to and for him to know that I am a woman and for me to know that he was who he stated he was.

That being said, we had a nice conversation and we’ve been conversing quite regularly. He has never said anything bad about his wife, he has a great life and is extremely successful (owns his own business which grosses quite a few million). Google and FB are wonderful for verifying information. There hasn’t been one word that he has stated that has been false. I have no reason to disbelieve anything that he’s stated. If he wanted to cheat on his wife, he has all the financial means to do it - which is why I stated what his company grosses.

As we’ve been conversing, I can see him being very drawn to me very quickly - which I believe has to do with me accepting his CD’ng. I think he’s been craving a woman’s acceptance of it for years. That is, at least, what I make of it. I would be lying if I didn’t say that I was drawn to him - he’s led a pretty amazing life and is pretty awesome on many levels.

He’s given me a few gifts which I’ve told him that he doesn’t need to do that at all. I don’t want him to question why I am his friend.

I came to this Site a week or so ago trying to learn more about him. What happens because of our friendship remains to be seen. Life is interesting. He and I are both intelligent adults and although the forbidden fruit is dangling in our face right now, there’s no indication that either of us will bite. I am not one to make rash decisions and I don’t believe that he does either. If I did make rash decisions, I certainly wouldn’t be on this site trying to glean some insight from strangers, I’d be on my way to him.

I think what saddens me about his situation is the desperation for acceptance that I hear in him. The CD’s that are happily married with supportive wives may not fully understand as you haven’t been in that situation. I think (and I may be wrong) that there are wives who make their husbands feel like they are doing them a great favor by just staying married to them, and I don’t know if that’s necessarily the case.

In all likelihood my friendship with him will remain a friendship. If his wife doesn’t want him to have a friendship with another woman, that is something that he and her need to come to terms with…maybe in his mind, he’s lumping me into the DADT part of his marriage…and that is probably the danger of having a marriage where DADT is how you live.

Thanks again for all of the interesting insight on my situation. It’s greatly appreciated.

[Alice Torn]

It aint right , nor wise. I'm a 60 yo never married Cder, and have not met a lady yet that accepts it. Many other single Cdrs, too. Picking a married, will not end well, and i don't want to see you, and your interest, on the CHEATERS tv show, where it ends in a big brawl. Cheating does not have to be sexual. It can be emotional, big time. Cheating his wife emotionally, robbing from her, and getting his needs met emotionally by you. Sorry, I am only wanting good for you. What would Dr. Laura say? Or Roy Masters? Or Joy Browne? Call one.

[DonnaT]

I've not read the whole thread, so apologies if I repeat another's response.

They could be sleeping in separate beds, bedrooms, for reasons other than his CDing, such as loud snoring, restless sleep, etc.

My paternal grandparents slept apart because my granddad would thrash about in his sleep. No one likes being awakened by a slap in the face.

[Jill Devine]

I

I think whats confusing to me now is why everyone seems to be suggesting i go to cross dressing dating site. He happens to be a cross dresser, but that is secondary to who he is as a human being. I wouldnt specifically look for a cross dresser, nor would i exclude one. I find at least the underdressing side of it sexy, but if someone didnt do that, it wouldnt matter to me. I dont have troble finding men, but my friendship with him has gotten interesting, for lack of a better word, and researching cross dressing led me to this forum. I posted about our friendship to hear thoughts about CD men in marriages where they might be sleeping in separate bedrooms, and their thoughts on how they would feel if they met someone wheere they can truly be themself.

Laura, we live in separate states. He is talking about feelings, that is true.

So let's take the CD'ing out of the equation. Les totally remove it. The Question then is should you take this friendship with a married man to the next level. My short answer is no. Walk away. Don't make his problems yours. This world has enough stress, strain and problems. Please don't add another persons problem to yours. Move on.

I know my advice sounds cold and cruel. But you are not in a good position to help him because it sounds like feelings are developing. Your decisions now will DRASTICALLY impact 2015 for many people. Do the right thing and walk away while you still can and before anyone gets hurt (including him).

[flatlander_48]

I guess I felt like sleeping in separate bedrooms is not a happy marriage.

I chuckled a bit when I saw that. For the last few years of my marriage with my 1st wife, we slept on Different Floors! in the house!!

[Lisa9099]

Flatlander, it is on separate floors too!

The lack of empathy for him from other CD's astounds me. Other than talk to me, he hasn't done anything wrong. I stand by my comment, this is a very judgmental group. He and I talk only. I think feelings are progressing, and what he learns from that, time will tell. I am not a man and thus, I think I have maybe a little more self-control than I am given credit for. I won't let him cheat with me, but as far as being friends, I think that is on his end and something he and his wife need to work out. I actually am feeling that most on here, except for a minor few, are ready to stone the both of us.

[Lorileah]

My question – if you are in a DADT marriage and in your own bedroom and you fell in love with another women who accepted and enjoyed you the way you are, what would you do? This is assuming that you loved both women – which I believe is possible (to love two people).

Your morals are your own and how you feel about this is between you and the CD. You can make the call. I do believe you can love more than one person, but there is more here that bothers me. He is telling you all this and that, to me indicates, he is either in a bad marriage (and you can get hurt then too) or he is playing you a bit for sympathy. I fear you are too deep already and this is going to burn you. Just my feelings mind you but based on years of experience. I worry, a lot, about men who sneak to the internet to talk to women (or other men as the case may be) and get you emotionally involved with something you cannot control.

I would tread carefully here. Someone is going to get hurt. Make sure it isn't you

[kimdl93]

Judgemental, perhaps, but I suspect that most of what you're hearing from us is the voice of experience. For most of us, we've been through at least a couple of rodeos and dealt with real, on line, and in some cases dubious relations in both venues. You'll make your own choices, as is your right. But nothing you have described is a basis for confidence.

[Lisa9099]

Your morals are your own and how you feel about this is between you and the CD. You can make the call. I do believe you can love more than one person, but there is more here that bothers me. He is telling you all this and that, to me indicates, he is either in a bad marriage (and you can get hurt then too) or he is playing you a bit for sympathy. I fear you are too deep already and this is going to burn you. Just my feelings mind you but based on years of experience. I worry, a lot, about men who sneak to the internet to talk to women (or other men as the case may be) and get you emotionally involved with something you cannot control.

I would tread carefully here. Someone is going to get hurt. Make sure it isn't you

I appreciate your response. With all due respect, he wasn't trying to meet me. I asked him questions and he was just being nice answering them. He bought some items from me online. The way he was talking the other night made me realize that I can hurt him. I felt like my acceptance of him was something he needed. It made me feel sad for him. It made me wonder if the GG wives have the husbands believing that nobody else will want them, and that just isn't always the case (imho).

[ReineD]

I feel very guilty about the fact that he’s married and I’m speaking with him. I know that it must be lonely to be in a DADT marriage and in a separate bedroom. I feel like my acceptance of him and really enjoying this side of him is so alluring to him.

…

I don’t know where this thing he and I have is going to go, but something tells me he’s craved acceptance from a woman for a VERY long time.

Yes, he has. I can't tell you how many CDers here have posted that they craved nothing more than to have a GG friend to do girly things with. This makes them feel in the "GG fold" so to speak, as one of us, it's all part of the fantasy. So be smart and just keep it friendly. Do not allow yourself to escalate to romantic feelings, you'll only end up broken hearted in the end. If you cannot in all honesty do this, then walk away. If you are falling for him, you don't want to tell yourself that you're not and that your friendship is just a fun, casual thing to engage in.

[Alice Torn]

Lisa, As a single cder, who has not had a close girfriend for 27 years, and my first one committed suicide in 1982, I know what it is to be utterly starved for a woman's friendship! i had my own window washing business for 26 yrs too, and met hundreds of married ladies, some of which were very friendly, and very attractive, and if they were not married, i would definitely have asked them out. But, i bit the bullet, and respected their marriages, and never touched one. I at 60, am hoping against the odds, that a special lady will come into my life, but no seeking much any more, as i am low income. Sometimes, we have to realize, that the right one for us, is aleady married, and we must move on, respecting their mates. I know , it is so difficult, when our social needs, for friendship and closeness seem like they will never be met. Learning to walk alone is good, though lonely at times. Sometimes best. Life is not fair. I hope you find other friends. Thanks for hearing me out.

[PaulaQ]

Yes, he has. I can't tell you how many CDers here have posted that they craved nothing more than to have a GG friend to do girly things with. This makes them feel in the "GG fold" so to speak, as one of us, it's all part of the fantasy. So be smart and just keep it friendly.

I'm sorry, but I have to take exception to this part of your statement. This is NOT a fantasy, what they are feeling. It's part and parcel of gender dysphoria. Pretty much *all* of the trans people I know want acceptance of others of their gender.

So sure, for a CDer, they may still be male identified. But their feelings are very real.

Despite that, I agree with you, and Lisa can do way better than the guy she's flirting with online.