Google insists CD means gay.

[Nadya]

I think it's more along the lines of people overwhelmingly willing to accept others rather than a statement on your sexual preference.

[kimdl93]

Don't blame Google. They simply use al algorithm to track the sites that are 'relevant' based on the number of clicks and of course the key words that the sites themselves select to associate with their content.

[Annaliese]

Until there is a CD bar, or TS bar, gay bars is what you are going to get. When any one come out to there wife, one of the first thing the wife ask is are you gay, I watch the Dallas Buyers Club with my wife the other night, he must be gay if he has HIV is what she say to me, and that is what most people think, and that came out strong in the movie and that is what most people thing no matter what there Education is, High school or PHD. I am great full for what ever acceptance we get.

[Lorileah]

OK kids, stop slamming the LGB community because you don't want to be included in it. There is one way to get out, start you own club. If you don't want the power of the L&Gs then work to get the T as its own designation and then work to get accepted like they did. Sheesh

Fact is you are where you are today riding the coattails of the gay and lesbian community. You would still be considered a mental illness, you would not have any protections (granted you don't have many now) and you would be hanging out to dry on a lot of legal issues. I don't understand why it bothers so many people to be under that umbrella. Remember "We must hang together of we shall certainly hang separately".

You don't want to be included in the L&G community...quit using their facilities. Go to straight clubs and stand up for yourself. Don't post here that when you get dressed you desire a man. Don't EVEN think about calling yourself a "Lesbian in a man's body". Seems you are convenient protesters.

So now that you all complained , who is the first to have a solution?

[Caden Lane]

I wouldn't say we complained Lori. I think we just are acknowledging that there is some intolerance and judgment from that end of things. I've been to gay clubs, and openly sensed and heard resentment for my presence there. I've had drag queens repeatedly diminish me, or judge me. I've been called CIS, or a CIS wannabe before by transgender ladies I know. I'm sure they meant no harm, but knowing I'm further along the spectrum than simply a CD, that sort of thing stings a little. When people you think of as peers or equals say something with disdain that is disparaging or diminishing, it leaves a mark. I've never understood how any group, that seeks understanding and acceptance, can be as judgmental.

Certainly, "We must hang together of we shall certainly hang separately," sounds all nice and motivating, in the end, it should go in both directions. I've no issue with, pardon the expression, "being lumped in" with them. But because of certain treatments, some Transgender, or others along the spectrum do not feel we are equally respected. I do agree, we all accomplish more, if we work together. But often it feels like we are the red-headed step-child (no offense to gingers), or the dirty little secret they wish they could do without.

I wish I had a solution. I wish it were as simple as forming CD only clubs or organizations. That might work for a very small minority of heterosexual only crossdressers or others along the gender spectrum. But I've seen CD only groups or clubs/bars devolve quickly, because of membership within that were gay/bi/lesbian. It's impossible to mutually exclude any group from the LGBT designation, because of the levels of intersection that exist between them all. And when you get down to it, is it even fair to the multitude of people within, that would be affected by such? Hardly a practical move at all. An easier solution would be to remind all "members" of the community that acceptance and tolerance, should start at home. We cannot expect others if we disparage any member within our grouping.

[Matia]

I think that's cool as there's nothing wrong with being gay, and in fact we are under "lgbti" umbrella which in short is often taken as "gay culture"
when I'm going out, I definitely feel safer in gay friendly places rather than regular mainstream clubs for example.

[ReallyRobyn]

I too quickly realized that men dressed as woman for a multitude of reasons. I truly believe everyone deserves happiness, and none of us should be judged by gender, age, race, religion, sexual preference, etc., etc. In my journey I was seeking to find similar CDs and also found Google’s results to be narrow, thus I began searching by "heterosexual cross dress" and found some alternative results (again, for my specific needs :-)

[Eryn]

I wish I had a solution. I wish it were as simple as forming CD only clubs or organizations. That might work for a very small minority of heterosexual only crossdressers

It does, but the national TriEss organization was considerably damaged by the management's intolerance of gay CDers and of transexuals. The flagship "Alpha" chapter in Los Angeles has devolved to a Yahoo mailing list. Other chapters, like that in Chicago, were "decertified" because they ignored the gay/TS ban and they have continued to be viable without the national organization. The TriEss website shows 17 chapters remaining in a table that originally held 40. It was not a pretty situation.

Back in the '70s there may have been some perceived advantage to distancing hetero CDers from the gay community. Both communities were quite underground and being mistaken for gay would have been a definite negative.

Today there is little stigma to being gay outside of some fringe fundamentalist groups. There is no advantage, and considerably liability, to separating ourselves from our strong allies.

[Kate Simmons]

Honestly, I wouldn't put all that much stock in a search engine by the name of "Google". You have to take all of this stuff online with a grain of salt.

[Taylor Ray]

While there may be a few LGB people who aren't happy with Ts being part of the community, the vast majority are happy that we support them as they support us. Remember the "Hang together or surely we will all hang separately" thing. I'm amazed that some people seem to be driven to create strife within a group that is supposed to support everyone. .

As always, well said Eryn. Perhaps the fact that many in the LGBT community are still "developing"...i.e. are still not fully embracing of different aspects of different
Beings, leads to this rather strange phenomenon of trying to "prove the legitimacy of one's place on the 'alternative sexual/gender spectrum".

As far as complaining about "what the internet says"...I will quote a now deceased friend of mine who always said:

"When the rubber hits the road in one's life, the so-called "importance" about what others think about us, is exponentially diminished to the point that one realizes what really matters in the time left given to them by the "Great Creator", or whatever way one may conceptualize the duration of one's gift of life."

[Sara Jessica]

when it comes down to it I think most gay people are just as in the dark as the straight or mainstream world when it comes to CDers / the T

I wouldn't say we complained Lori. I think we just are acknowledging that there is some intolerance and judgment from that end of things...

Right on both fronts.

Roughly a year ago I spent an evening with friends at SRO, a gay bar in San Diego which is decidedly TG friendly from what I can tell. I spent a significant part of that evening sitting at a table with these three gay guys who were just as in the dark about all things T as any Muggle out there. They were genuinely inquisitive and I think they left that night with a newfound understanding and perhaps respect for where we come from, just as I have the utmost respect for their POV and life experiences.

While I don't make it a habit to seek out the gay bar as a "T-friendly space" (mostly because in my world any mainstream destination is by my definition "T-friendly), I have yet to be witness to intolerance of those with gender issues. However, I can totally see how easy that could happen, just as many Muggles have a hard time getting their head around this gender thing of ours.

["Gabriela"]

Most people don't have an idea that there are guys who just like looking like girls, but don't feel like a "woman trapped inside a male body". I think that's why sometimes they find it shocking, if they're not used to socialize with LGBT people. And even so many LGBs ignore that the Ts have many different "breeds" inside it.

Do you girls know if there's a good book that goes deeper in this matter? I'd surely like to read a bit more, from a sociological and psychological point of view

[Katey888]

It does, but the national TriEss organization was considerably damaged by the management's intolerance of gay CDers and of transexuals. The flagship "Alpha" chapter in Los Angeles has devolved to a Yahoo mailing list. Other chapters, like that in Chicago, were "decertified" because they ignored the gay/TS ban and they have continued to be viable without the national organization. The TriEss website shows 17 chapters remaining in a table that originally held 40. It was not a pretty situation.

Eryn - that is a really interesting piece of history (someday, someone will surely put together a history of the T-movement...?) I have heard a lot about TriEss (who rather strangely proclaim themselves an international organisation) but wondered why they have not been more influential - this answers some of it.

Back in the '70s there may have been some perceived advantage to distancing hetero CDers from the gay community. Both communities were quite underground and being mistaken for gay would have been a definite negative.

And this makes senset to me too. I still see that attitude of 'distance' on these pages, and I think that is because of a latent fear of being tarred with the same brush... And this is the only part where I would differ from your opinion:

Today there is little stigma to being gay outside of some fringe fundamentalist groups. There is no advantage, and considerably liability, to separating ourselves from our strong allies.

I agree strongly with your second point, as many already have (even when that famous quote was levelled against us Brits ) - and while the first comment may be true for your locale I don't believe it's true in a more widespread sense. I think there is still strong stigma to being gay, particularly from a generation that grew up with the growth of AIDS and its early relationship to the gay, male community. You only have to look as far as Tim Cook as one example of someone who has kept their orientation under the radar for (presumably) good reason. What doesn't make much sense to me, however, is that a male who 'wears dresses' and is hetero, somehow thinks that there is significant stigma difference between himself and a male who 'wears dresses' and is gay, bi- or somewhere else.. That's just daft!

I think it's highly likely hetero crossdressers are a minority in the T world, and to struggle against a tide as TriEss seems to have done, seems both futile and divisive. We have much to gain from just getting over that, I feel...

Katey x

[kimdl93]

I agree on the subject of Tri ess. Their membership oath, as posted on the Houston chapters site is clearly anti TS, requiring anyone who contemplates transition to drop out of the group. And it prohibits even talking about TS issues and interests...imagine that. Half of their meetings are "boys nights out". Cumulatively, this probably explains why there are only a couple dozen active members in a city of 4 million. I have no interest in joining the group under these terms.

[docrobbysherry]

-----------------------------------------------
You don't want to be included in the L&G community...quit using their facilities. Go to straight clubs and stand up for yourself. Don't post here that when you get dressed you desire a man. Don't EVEN think about calling yourself a "Lesbian in a man's body". Seems you are convenient protesters. -------------------------

Nice post Lori! But, u left out those, "straight CD's", that r not attracted to men, only attracted to other CD's.

They seem to ignore the fact that when u take off a dresser's clothes, what r u left with? U r either attracted to male parts or you're not. Why is it so hard for some here to admit they're gay or bi?

Personally, I WISH I was bi. As a single CD I'd be having a lot more---er---fun?