Formal Declaration of the "Man in a Dress Contingent" Agenda

[Jason+]

Well Michele, I'm glad you're comfortable in a dress with a guy's head sticking out the top. There's a pretty vocal contingent on this forum who push this agenda for all its worth. I no longer dress at home, alone, hidden from view, only going out in the dark. I dress to go out and socialize with fabulous CD girlfriends who embrace the classy feminine mystique in all its forms and glory. Some of us may occasionally "pass", and some of us don't, but it is not for lack of putting forth the effort. I'm 6'6" in heels but I still look good and take a fabulous picture of a tall, well dressed, older, lady with big hands, square jaw, and a deep voice. We don't hide our beauty on the inside and the outside too.

First off thank you for your honesty and your underestimation.

It is interesting that you as a member of a group that is usually charged with have an "agenda" would level such a charge into your own community. If the six or seven of us that I directly know about are worthy of being a "contingent" with an agenda let me formally declare what it is. Agenda of the Contingent. I checked this against the Homosexual Agenda and the Transsexual agenda with the one member of each group I have had the privilege to meet in person and based on the single person check my agenda is identical to theirs.

I would provide a link to the Manifesto but it's just as easy to reproduce here:

1. Read Agenda
2. Apply To ALL

Against the wishes of the "Passing Brigade" and "Defenders of the Cause" I also have chosen not to hide and be alone or go out only in the darkness. The hair I wear when I go out in a skirt or dress is the same hair that I will wear to work Monday morning in dress pants and button front shirt. It's authentic me all the way and of the utmost importance to me to have it that way. Since retiring from the military I have worked on growing it out and finding a style that works with both sides of the closet, keeps my wife happy and doesn't make my employer too upset with me.

The fact that I do not have a need to develop an alternate persona and name, wear padding, wigs, forms and makeup while I pretend to be something I know to my core I'm not does not in any way shape or form imply a lack of effort on my part to look well or be presentable. If the cost of that is a low fabulosity rating and the revocation of any invitation to attend your gatherings, galas and affairs I will see my Skag-Drag (From the Divas Las Vegas faq) self to the virtual door and continue entering the actual real establishments where I live that seem happy enough to be at least civil while they accept my money.

In addition to the things I don't need above what I won't do is tell someone who does need or want those things that they are wrong for it. While I prefer to be clean shaven before I go out no matter what side of the closet I've chosen from I will not have the audacity to tell a bearded man in his dress that he should have to shave or stay home over my preferences. If providing support for someone's post who appears to feel at least similarly to me adds me to a "vocal contingent" then if you have made it this far my voice in your head should be wall to wall stereo and borderline earth shattering with all the effect of a 64' organ pipe stop that you feel in your core more than hear.

[AllieSF]

Well stated Jason. Some people have an easy time saying live and let live, and have a hard time with actually following the "..let live" part. Enjoy your life. You are as good and maybe even better representative of who we are than I am based on your total honesty approach to others. Keep up the good work.

[Marcelle]

Hi Jason,

I am firm believer that there is no right way or wrong way to be who we are and whatever makes you happy is all that counts in the end. The funny thing is, when you remove the make-up, the forms, the hip padding and whatnot . . . we (TG/CD) are truly just men in dresses.

Hugs

Isha

[justmetoo]

I agree. People should be free to express themselves however they want (barring things like indecent exposure). We get caught up in the gender binary, when we should live and let live. As long as you're having fun, being yourself, and not hurting anyone, it's all good.
I do think things will get better as the generations roll on. These days more young people I know are supportive of all sorts of gender expression, spanning the spectrum.

[marie_cd]

Jason, I have to say your approach is refreshing to me as someone who is new to the whole thing even though I secretly tried on and enjoyed women's clothes much of my life. Looking through many forums, I feel like there's a lot of pressure to be 100% feminine. I'm not sure what is going on yet and just figuring it out as I go, so knowing that there is always the "just wear what you want and present how you like" approach is great.

[Lynn Marie]

Dang, I think my statement just got validated.

[Stephanie Voorhees]

Jason,
I couldn't agree more with your post. I also have noticed that amongst a group that preaches "don't judge me just accept me for who I am" that there is quite a bit of judgement passed within our own community. I'm a hairy, linebacker of a guy who happens to love wearing skirts and dresses. I shave my legs, I have a hairy chest. I wear makeup, I have a goatee. I am a firm believer that there is no wrong way to crossdress. I dress how I want to make me happy, and if that offends some random stranger then TFB.

[Katey888]

A timely reminder of one part of the diversity of our broader community Jason...

I have nothing but complete respect and appreciation of your integrity and authenticity in the way you represent yourself and - by association - others here who follow that course. I couldn't do what you do myself as it's just not me, but I'd have no problems sharing a girly cocktail, elbow to elbow if the opportunity arose..

Interesting fact I came across the other day that I'll use as a metaphor: There is no colour in the natural world (yes, staggering but true...). Those slightly different wavelengths in the visible spectrum are just that: different wavelengths... It's only in our mind that they are given 'colour' - which is actually an abstract construct, not a physical phenomenon.

I try to remember that our impressions of both ourselves and the outside world are like that - just abstract constructs in our mind's eye... Why shouldn't we be accepting of everyone, just because their image doesn't align with our expectations, it doesn't make them any less real and honest.

Oh - and Lynn...

Dang, I think my statement just got validated.

No - your statement wasn't validated - just used as a suitable vehicle and exposé...

Katey x

[Kate Simmons]

Those contingents tend to get around I guess.

[Sara Jessica]

I will be the first to admit that my point of view has made it difficult to get my head around the "man-in-dress" presentation. This arose out of having close friendships with several women in transition and seeing what they go through every day. One of these friendships in particular led me commit in that my efforts when out & about is to do nothing that makes things any more difficult for any TG who follows in my wake (whether TS, CD or somewhere in between as we are not wearing badges which profess our POV).

This has since been tempered somewhat by reading the words of others in these pages (M.Moose, are you listening?) and coming to appreciate an alternate viewpoint. Your words over the years as well Jason have inspired me to learn. I think I have gained a better understanding through reading your occasional writings.

So what does all of this mean? Are you hurting the bigger cause that I speak of? Probably not but I subscribe to the theory that perception is often reality and in dealing with the Muggles, I think your presentation will burn more into their perception than those who aspire to blend among other women.

Does this mean that I have any "men-in-dresses" as part of my own social circle? No, but not because I eschew such a thing. I think this is more because I somehow find a mutual friendship attraction in others who are more like me in terms of their POV's. Would I shun you in a social gathering? Heck no. I find it utterly fascinating to talk to others who are part of the same tribe yet express themselves differently.

Is Lynn (or anyone else) a bad person for holding such opinions? No more so than I in sharing my own. Not only is she a really neat person, having met her myself, but I appreciate her honesty. Face it, people have a hard time getting their heads around any of us. Maybe I'm delusional and the Muggles have an easier time understanding the man-in-dress POV but regardless, there will be no last word in this thread because the camps are firmly entrenched in their beliefs. I think the best we can hope for is that an honest exchange of opinions and ideas will lead to at least some semblance of mutual understanding, if not a level of respect as well.

[bridget thronton]

I tend to agree that there are no firm rules on presentation. I can look at some folks and think that is not the look forward me but I will not judge them as being inappropriate.

[Tammy Lynn Tx]

When in late teens to late 20's I could pass very well, but in my 50's I pass more as my mother. To be totally honest, it takes standing behind an eight foot mud wall.
My hat is off to ALL here for what ever reasons they are

[Teresa]

Sara,
I tend to agree with your comments, but I guess it is a case of what we want to get out of our CDing as individuals ! The problem is the public doesn't understand us as individuals !!

Still poses the old question as Cders, to be out in public at all ??

[LilSissyStevie]

Well said Jason. It's mind boggling how bigoted the "TG community" is about it's own members. We get what we deserve from the rest of the world.

[Robert]

Thanks for saying this Jason. It is posts like these that keep me coming back here.

Sign me up.

[Jenniferathome]

Jason, I don't understand why you choose to dress as a female but not present entirely so. Probably in the same way that you don't understand why I want to present completely as female (heck, I don't understand it.)

Those like me are posers of some kind. The real irony is that YOU are an actual cross dresser! Funny that a cross dresser can't get a break on crossdressers.com.

[Tracii G]

If you want to be the guy in a dress then by all means have at it,you have my support.
The whole argument about who is real and who isn't is just plain stupid.
I get stepped on for being 50/50 in my daily presentation by some on here but thats fine with me.Doesn't make me any less real than anyone else.
I'll put it this way if you have the stones to do it and don't mind the ridicule from the masses then good for you.

[Andy66]

Good rant, Jason. Of course you should be yourself, without some other people trying to make you feel bad.

[Jason+]

I will be the first to admit that my point of view has made it difficult to get my head around the "man-in-dress" presentation. This arose out of having close friendships with several women in transition and seeing what they go through every day. One of these friendships in particular led me commit in that my efforts when out & about is to do nothing that makes things any more difficult for any TG who follows in my wake (whether TS, CD or somewhere in between as we are not wearing badges which profess our POV).

This has since been tempered somewhat by reading the words of others in these pages (M.Moose, are you listening?) and coming to appreciate an alternate viewpoint. Your words over the years as well Jason have inspired me to learn. I think I have gained a better understanding through reading your occasional writings.

Is Lynn (or anyone else) a bad person for holding such opinions? No more so than I in sharing my own. Not only is she a really neat person, having met her myself, but I appreciate her honesty. ….. I think the best we can hope for is that an honest exchange of opinions and ideas will lead to at least some semblance of mutual understanding, if not a level of respect as well.

The last thing I want to do is cause someone in transition extra pain. I recognize that my existence as I am can be a painful reminder of what they have worked hard to overcome and maybe are still working on. It effects more than just the online community, all the way to literally my little sister although that will be her story to tell.

What I try to do while out is leave people with a positive interaction albeit perhaps a more burned in one. Good service deserves a tip no matter how I’m dressed although I may tip heavier in a dress. A former landlady was approached by a neighbor who asked if she knew I was “that way” before renting to me. Her response was “Yeah, but he pays his rent on time each month.” My hope continues to be that people I interact with will remember that I was polite and well-mannered along with how I was dressed.

For Lynn’s opinion I was sincere in my thanks for her honesty and the underestimation. She may be one of the nicest people on the planet for those who meet the standards important to her. If there is any mutual respect of differing positions in the statement that I took issue with I’m having a difficult time finding it. By itself that is not enough to call her opinion invalid I just vociferously disagree with it.

I have nothing but complete respect and appreciation of your integrity and authenticity in the way you represent yourself and - by association - others here who follow that course. I couldn't do what you do myself as it's just not me, but I'd have no problems sharing a girly cocktail, elbow to elbow if the opportunity arose..

Katey x

Jason, I don't understand why you choose to dress as a female but not present entirely so. Probably in the same way that you don't understand why I want to present completely as female (heck, I don't understand it.)

Those like me are posers of some kind. The real irony is that YOU are an actual cross dresser! Funny that a cross dresser can't get a break on crossdressers.com.

To try and begin to answer that I’m going to borrow a piece from Katey. It just isn’t me. I can’t tell you for sure why I look at a dress, heels and nail polish and want them while at the same time don’t feel the need for the wig and the rest.

I am trying to dress like me. I view it sort of like a salad bar. Most people don’t put every item at the bar on every salad every time. They try things individually and in combination till they find the taste that’s just right for them.

It isn’t that I never tried things like Mary Delores or Jasmon or even “Helga von Schuttentrapp!” They just never fit quite the same way Jason has. Lipstick was sometimes nice but without the rest of the makeup was more out of place. Combine that with being one of my wife's top 3 disliked items and some good advice from Reine that made sense and still rang true to me I don't wear it much.

I won’t call you a poser simply because your salad has more toppings than mine.

[Majella St Gerard]

Thank you Jason, I'm with you.

[Zooey]

To try and begin to answer that I’m going to borrow a piece from Katey. It just isn’t me. I can’t tell you for sure why I look at a dress, heels and nail polish and want them while at the same time don’t feel the need for the wig and the rest.

I am trying to dress like me. I view it sort of like a salad bar. Most people don’t put every item at the bar on every salad every time. They try things individually and in combination till they find the taste that’s just right for them.

Despite being TS, never having really understood the "dude in a dress" thing, and obviously having made a different set of choices in how I present myself, on these points we agree and can find some common ground.

I HATED wigs, because they felt like a costume to me and I don't want to wear a costume - I just want to be me. My current goals involve beard removal and beginning HRT, precisely so that I can wear less makeup and feel more like myself.

[Leona]

I'm of the opinion that a "man in a dress" or whatever you want to call a man who doesn't attempt to present as female does a lot more to help than hurt.

Considering that, somewhere at the base of all of this is the idea that men can't do girly things and women can't do boyish things, everytime a man in a dress is accepted wearing a dress, it makes it that much easier for the MAB-presenting-female that follows him to be accepted.

That's not the One Right Way To Get Acceptance For All, mind you, it's just one way those of us who like to wear skirts and stuff without feeling pressured to present as female can make a contribution.

[PaulaQ]

@Jason+ - nothing about my experience as a female identified, traditionally feminine, transitioning trans woman in any way invalidates your experience, nor anyone else's. Sure, what you do wouldn't be right for me (I'd probably just shoot myself - because what you do would freak me out badly), but that doesn't mean it's not right for you. Be who you are, and ignore the haters.

Nobody on this forum, at least none of the gender variant folks here, has much of a leg to stand on if they want to start telling others how to present, or what their identity should be. Guardians of the gender binary, we are not! That some of us try to be is, well, really short sighted on their part, in my opinion.

[Jason+]

Thank you Jason, I'm with you.

If only I had made your acquaintance before I retired from the Navy and left South Carolina in 2010.

I HATED wigs, because they felt like a costume to me and I don't want to wear a costume - I just want to be me. My current goals involve beard removal and beginning HRT, precisely so that I can wear less makeup and feel more like myself.

Zooey, that really resonated with me. Halloween is the one day even the Navy couldn’t or at least didn’t take away. For the last 2 or three years I haven’t dressed for Halloween because it isn’t a costume. It is instead a regular part of life for me.

Considering that, somewhere at the base of all of this is the idea that men can't do girly things and women can't do boyish things, everytime a man in a dress is accepted wearing a dress, it makes it that much easier for the MAB-presenting-female that follows him to be accepted.

That adds to the answer to Jennifer's question. To understand more how I feel you would have to be able to break the automatic assignment of dresses to women. That's a tall order and my understanding is that if dresses suddenly became mainstream for men and actually cut for them the dresses would no longer be womens dresses and would lose their appeal for a lot of people.

. Would I shun you in a social gathering? Heck no. I find it utterly fascinating to talk to others who are part of the same tribe yet express themselves differently.

I think a cup of coffee or tasty adult beverage with you and Docrobbysherry would be one heck of an evening!

but I'd have no problems sharing a girly cocktail, elbow to elbow if the opportunity arose..

Katey x

Perhaps someday I'll have another visit to the UK. Brisbane was sure a good time. If you should find yourself in either Los Angeles (where I live) or Las Vegas (worth the drive for said cocktail with you)....

@Jason+ - nothing about my experience as a female identified, traditionally feminine, transitioning trans woman in any way invalidates your experience, nor anyone else's. Sure, what you do wouldn't be right for me (I'd probably just shoot myself - because what you do would freak me out badly), but that doesn't mean it's not right for you. Be who you are, and ignore the haters.

Do I ignore them or thank them? Fortunately for me I had a lot of haters growing up when the worst provocation I gave them was homemade clothes, walking and talking funny. A lot of the hater influence was burnt out prior to skirts and dresses.

[LelaK]

The fact that I do not have a need to develop an alternate persona and name [etc] while I pretend to be something I know to my core I'm not does not in any way shape or form imply a lack of effort on my part to look well or be presentable.

Does that mean those of us who favor an alternate persona and name etc are pretending to be something we're not? If that's what you think, I beg to differ, emphatically. I happen to be a "man" in a dress most of the time when dressed, but my identity is feminine and I definitely have the right to make my exterior conform to my ideal in the interior as much as I want to.

And why care about society's standards of what's "presentable"?