What is the essence of womanhood?

[Karen62]

So much wisdom here, I am so graced with the contributions of all of you. Thank you (even those I haven't yet called out in a quote!). I love you all.

I can tell you what you want. You want to NOT be transsexual.

Perhaps you are correct, but I want to think the more accurate way of saying this is I don't want to be wrong about being transsexual, especially if I choose to follow the path. You had better believe I'm constantly thinking about this issue. As I wrote to a friend in a PM today, if you had asked me last night if I was interested in HRT, I would have shouted YES for all to hear. But today at work, I felt some doubts creep up. But being so self-analytical (it's a bad habit, I know), I actually equated my doubts to the feeling a groom feels on the morning of his wedding (or at least the fears I felt some 25+ years ago of making a "permanent" decision such as marriage). I felt doubts. And frankly, I think having doubts is a good thing. It's makes you search your soul all the deeper for your own truth. I am doing that soul searching. Kaitlyn, you still may be right, as I actually do NOT romanticize transition. I see it as a huge obstacle to get through, that gender-blend time when you are simultaneously both and neither, and are so in public. Yeah, I just don't want to make a mistake, but doing nothing could be the biggest mistake of my life. I have tried that route for 52 years and it's not worked out so well. But kudos to Kaitlyn for piercing the veil. I sat up and noted your point. Thank you.

For me, I think the answer is "being".

Jorja, your wisdom ALWAYS shines so brightly here. I love it so much. Thank you.

Well It's not a stereotype.
I and several of my friends have little interest in babies, but give me a Puppy......
What does that prove? Not much, just I find Puppies way cuter than most babies.
Don't confuse being a woman with personal preferences or personality.
Also, some of what you feel is conditioning , it may come later when you are on hormones and are at ease in your Gender role. Or not.
A lot of women coo over babies because that is what's expected of them, its almost tradition.
Guys do similar things with cars or motorbikes etc.

Becky, right, Yes, YES, and YES!! You are right, of course. But trust me, I am not shallow enough to equate stereotypes as definitions. I was only exploring my own insecurities and doubts, again related to not wanting to make a mistake. I get that the only true answer may in fact be elusive. No one knows if the first person who asks you to marry them is the best person for you. You can't know if taking a new job in a new city will lead to a big new life or a prison of loneliness and misery. Sometimes the right answer is not that clear, so in those cases, I use my over-analysis skills, look at what I want, what I don't want, what's important and not, what are the risks versus the benefits, and of course, the intangible what does my gut tell me (and if possible to surmise, why?). Some of you tell tales of knowing full well what you wanted. I wish I had your clarity. I have 50+ years of hard-core repression, denial, and isolation that is slowly unraveling. The brick walls are crumbling, but not yet fully gone. The wonderful and philosophical KellyJameson (thank you so much, Kelly!) sent me a link yesterday that speaks volumes to me: https://saladbingo.wordpress.com/201...in-the-closet/. It's as if I wrote this and forgot about it. This is me, and this helped me a great deal.

I agree that it is very difficult to define, and almost impossible to do so without invoking some romantic notion or stereotype. But, we all sense the differences between the two genders even though the personality and appearance spectrum is indeed wide within each sex. We still know which are women and which are men. I took it that Karen was asking, how do define these differences exactly.

I actually could have quoted every last bit of Reine's comment, but I'm so bloody verbose that I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to self-censor tonight. Reine's insight is brilliant. Fantastic. Yes, I was speaking about all of this in context to me (sorry that I was not clear on that). I'm looking for a signal, a Yea or Nay, any sort of data that can help my self-analysis give me some traction on the right way for me. To be honest, I have do an opinion on what I really want, but I will wait to first speak to my therapist next to see how that goes. I've made a promise to myself to not use therapy as a self-validation tool, but instead use it for its intended purpose - to fully explore the issues.

If you all get the impression that I am over-thinking this, yeah, I guess that could be true. But over-thinking which item to get on a dinner menu is just plain silly. Over-thinking about which car to buy may be potentially excessive. Over-thinking about the partner whom you are consider marrying is probably not a bad idea, but over-thinking about changing one's public and private life so completely (assuming full transition is in the path), well, I just can't let it go. It's my coping mechanism, my self-assurance that I am doing the right thing. I do get passionate about things, and I am REALLY passionate about my long-awaited emergence and self-acceptance as transgender, but I'm still taking mental baby steps on this path (even when they seem big to me). I apologize if this might all seem excessive and annoying, but as Jorja so kindly said,

...that is ok too

Thank you, my dear friends, for allowing me to rant and ramble.

Karen

[becky77]

Most of us over analyse things, It's natural to especially in this situation.

My director said to me yesterday. "It's admirable to put your colleagues first and we really appreciate how conscientious you are to the company. But you need to start getting selfish, put your needs first and we will give you the support".
That pretty much summed me up, worrying about what everyone else is thinking and looking for ways to make it easier for them. In transition even though it goes against the core of my personality, you have to think of self.
There is no sitting on the fence on this, you either stay where you are let your mind cage you in ever increasing doubts and fears, or you step over the cliff and take that plunge.
Therapists are great but the only way to really know if you should be a woman fulltime, is to go out there and live as a woman, stop the thinking and just be.
It's why so many people try part time first. I have been living as a woman outside of work for over a year, I'm now certain fulltime is the answer (bit late now, It's company news).
How much experience have you got? How have your interactions as Karen been?

Ps I didn't accuse you of being shallow, I was unsuccessfully trying to say. Don't doubt you are a woman based on not sharing some commonly perceived traits. Also when you are dressed and acting as a guy you won't get the same experience, people see you as a guy, they generally treat you as a guy, they have no idea you are a wom an inside. A friend at work has known about me for some time and even though she sees me as a guy physically, she sees me as a woman mentally and talks to me that way.

[Starling]

The first time I ever dressed with other people was in the company of a wonderful woman I've known for years and two really interesting women I had never met before. We were all in the same advanced age group. Intros all around, friend's grandson taking photos, and despite my crappy wig, within fifteen minutes I was being treated like one of the girls. The big surprise to me was how centered and calm I felt--I'm normally nervous and a bit hyperactive--and I have felt that way every time I have been out since then, even surrounded by strangers. Full time is my goal, for then I can say without hesitation, "I am a woman."

Karen, the advice you have gotten not to over-analyze is so true. Once you let yourself go, you'll be amazed at how easy and natural it feels to inhabit your true self.

Lallie

[Rogina B]

Therapists are great but the only way to really know if you should be a woman full time, is to go out there and live as a woman, stop the thinking and just be.
It's why so many people try part time first. I have been living as a woman outside of work for over a year, I'm now certain full time is the answer

There is no substitution for "street time" with the experiences that come with it. Have to jump in the deep end if you want to swim!

[LeaP]

I stumble on the term itself. It's loaded, impossibly laden with cultural baggage for me. The fact that so many, so strongly consider womanhood to include being brought up as a girl and maturing as a young woman into womanhood is part of my difficulty. I do respect the substance of this view, even if it excludes other kinds of equally valid gendered experience.

Just as I have never used the word "man" to describe myself, I do not use the word "woman," except in limited ways. I do not believe I am likely to change that until I am post transition, living a woman's life full-time.

So an important part of my self realization was discovering and freeing a core that I identify not as "woman," but as female. More and more, I gravitate to the view that the essence of transsexuality is not gender per se, but sex self perception. Gender is a secondary way of looking at it.

I can find that female essence instantly in my earliest memories. Fortunately or not, I am blessed with extraordinarily early memories. And damn (like Kaitlyn, my language tends toward indelicate) if I don't remember them as a little girl. That was a flame that flickered ever more unevenly until being obliterated in adolescence, in the process destroying any natural claim to womanhood – not that I understood that implication at the time, of course.

For me, trying to find the woman within is akin to trying to find the Swede or Scot within. They are there. There are echoes and patterns passed through the family and perhaps even in the genes. But would I say to a Swedish person that I am a Swede? Nope. I would were to move to Sweden and change my citizenship, however. And I think my substantial Swedish heritage would give it more weight than the simple legality would for some others, too. Even if some native Swedes didn't happen to like it…

[Anne2345]

Perhaps you are correct, but I want to think the more accurate way of saying this is I don't want to be wrong about being transsexual, especially if I choose to follow the path.

You do not choose the path. The path chooses you.

I'm so bloody verbose.

Yes. Yes you are.

Composing wordy and flowery posts may help you feel better in the moment, but they do little to accomplish anything of long term substance or progress. This path is about action and doing. It's neither a game nor a contest. There are no prizes or awards here for the overly verbose or the obsessively loquacious.

Feel free to write as much as you will if you believe it helps. But do not do so at the expense or in the place of action.

Writing and discussion are all fine and well and stuff, and words are certainly important and necessary without doubt, but these things are only but a few of the many tools available to you. To rely too heavily on words, to rely exclusively on words, would be a huge mistake. Wherever it is you need to go, supplement it all you want with words, but know that it will be action that gets you to your ultimate place of destination . . . .

[arbon]

I
Just as I have never used the word "man" to describe myself, I do not use the word "woman," except in limited ways. I do not believe I am likely to change that until I am post transition, living a woman's life full-time.

So an important part of my self realization was discovering and freeing a core that I identify not as "woman," but as female. More and more, I gravitate to the view that the essence of transsexuality is not gender per se, but sex self perception. Gender is a secondary way of looking at it.

I could never think of myself as a woman before transitioning, I was not capable of it. I was very confused, and mostly just thought of myself as a sick crazy man and hated that I was a man. But then transitioning he just faded away, its like I was never a guy at all, and I can't think of myself as anything but as a woman. Until you get to the sex self perception part which has been much more an issue for me lately - like I have stopped going to my women's meeting because I have become to uncomfortable that I still have the wrong anatomy.

[LeaP]

I have come to the point where I understand that in a fundamental way, Theresa. My body has changed sufficiently that I have become something of a blend of male and female (unclothed, anyway). The changes feel natural and normal to me. it was something of a relief that I feel no sexual aspect to the changes - a realization that came to me only a few months ago. While I worked hard in working my way through all this, I guess I was still afraid at some level that there might have been some such motivation and that it would leave me open to the "charge" of autogynephilia. But there is none, and it turns out that breasts are just breasts after all, that is that, and what's the big deal anyway?

Now then ... Knowing that and also knowing how important physical changes were (and are) to me keeps the differences between physical sex and sexual stimulation clear. Mind you, I am not saying that this is the only circumstance under which they are separable, just that it gives me clarity. I am increasingly uncomfortable in all-male situations. That has always included good old boy conversations, but now extends to much simpler things as well. To my complete surprise, even things like elevators. And I absolutely cringe inwardly in a men's room when there are others in there also. Just the feeling of having my physical sex "validated" in that way is hard to take.

[Kathryn Martin]

But all of this made me think about what is it that makes a human being a woman. Not the anatomical stuff, but the mental/emotional stuff.

There is an incredibly short answer to your question. Sex is what makes a human being female or male. Gender is a social and power figment that has always been and continues to be an oppressive part of women's lives. Look at the media, advertising, at women who get killed because a court orders a caesarian section because it deems the life of the unborn to be more valuable that the mothers, women who get killed, and beaten and called the weaker sex and raped because the social construct of gender enforce views of women that are brutal, untrue and always oppressive.

If you really want to know what a woman's essence is ask about their survival strategies in our society. And if they are willing to speak to you about those unvarnished then, possibly, you might find out what this non-existent figment of female essence might be.

[Frances]

So... women are people who get killed, beaten and raped, and then have to come up with survival strategies. Awesome.

[Kathryn Martin]

It's not what I said of course, Frances, and denying this reality ....... ah well...

[Frances]

Men get assaulted, killed and raped as well. Victimhood is the reality of professional victims. This dogmatic rethoric has become your answer to any question on this forum.