*****im a DADT graduate*****

[mykell]

well i did it, i asked, boy it was touchy though,
i feel like a school girl right now though, weird er than before.....

so we were watching shows on Friday eve, i looked at her wine glass and said do you have enough....she says yes and i start....i wanted to talk....she goes now what....so i say never mind, silence from me now im apprehensive, never mind....she prods me later on so i tell her....i found a support group....she says whats it cost....me nothing its free, where is it....tell her the town....she asks when....i tell her every three weeks i think, so she states once a month i say yes something like that....she states if you have to do it them go, still apprehensive her tone said no all the way.

we continued watching shows and the conversation on my end was short answered, she was fairly normal. after some time she asks whats wrong so i tell her she was not sounding supportive....she tells me again that if i have to do it to help me get over it then go....so i tell her its not something im going to get over and she goes i know but if its something you need to do then do it....so it tell her i might have to go dressed.... if you have to then go. i then tell her i didnt want to feel like i freak and want to shave my legs, would she have a problem with that, im not sure, maybe after, you cant have it in the summer when the boy will see, told her i understand that too of course.

now im in shock....and i apologize for being me....then i ask her what she was thinking i was going to say in the beginning, she says she doesnt know.... i tell her im afraid shes going to leave when i talk about these things, then she says thats what she is afraid of, i reassure her that thats not what will happen, she says i cant promise that.... i reassure her again and she reiterates that i cant promise that.... i came in and gave her a hug and told her that wont happen...

later in the night i gave her another squeezy hug and thanked her for the conversation....she has no idea how huge this was for me....

sooo after i wrote this i realized how much was said, its different now, it was like an accident, it seemed like slo-motion, but it was over in a second, so much happened in those minutes, in that brief span of time more happened than i first remembered until i gathered my thoughts here.....

its not DADT anymore......

[Nikkilovesdresses]

Congrats on moving it along...

You both sound a little reluctant to talk about feelings, apart from voicing your mutual fear of rejection. You mention near the end, "she has no idea how huge this was for me...."

Why not tell her?

[JayeLefaye]

Take a deep breath babe! Take several:-)

Congrats! Now work on finding that "balance" thingie...

Jaye

[mykell]

nikki
sorry i left that out....i told her yesterday......

[Jenniferathome]

Mikell, good for both of you. She may never "approve" but talking about this is THE important thing

[MsVal]

Welcome to the Uncomfortable Awareness course Mikell. We've been saving a seat for you.

There are a couple of rules, not many, and they are pretty easy.
Once you have taken your seat, you may not go back. Things can get pretty heated, or decidedly frigid. Stay in your seat.
You must successfully pass the Advanced Communications for Spouses class. Since the prereq Communications for Spouses class is overbooked, you will be allowed to test out. There are others, but those are two that come immediately to mind.

The object of this course naturally is to graduate and move on. While here you and your spouse will learn things about each other that you never imagined; good things, bad things, and bad things that you two will turn into good things.

I'm in my second year here. It's a struggle to keep up, but I'm doing okay. I'm glad to share my notes with you.

Best wishes
MsVal

[WandaRae2009]

Congratulations on the progress. It is something that I have been trying to move toward. I have brought up going a few times to a support group, and hit a brick wall. She thinks that if I go to a support group, they will convince me to transitions, or I will have an affair with a member. I'll be looking forward to hearing about when you go, was it all you thought it would be?

Any way - Good luck.

[bridget thronton]

And good next step

[JamieG]

Congratulations! That is a big step. She's made an important concession, so I think you should focus on showing her that you are not changing as a person. As such, I'd recommend not pushing the leg shaving thing. You can wear thick tights to hide leg hair, multiple pairs if necessary. Even if your wife brings it up, it might be a good idea to say, "I've decided not to. I know it makes you uncomfortable." If she sees that you are genuinely concerned about her feelings, she is likely to become accepting over time. Good luck and have a great time at your meeting!

[DorothyElizabeth]

Be careful how you say, "I've decided not to; it makes you uncomfortable." That might easily be taken as placing the onus on her for your decision. I would instead say something like, "I've decided not to, because I don't want to add anything more to our relationship that might be difficult." That way, you imply that any difficulties with your dressing are your doing; not hers. But I would definitely go that route, and hold off on the shaving business for a few months, at least. Baby steps.

[Sandra]

One thing that you don't want to do now is rush things.

[Katey888]

More good progress, Mikell...

Just keep doing: baby step - pause - baby step - pause...

When you get to a support group things may feel a lot better for you and stabilise...

Fingers Xed!

Katey x

[Stephanie47]

Years ago my wife and I had the "talk." She suggested that I find a support group. However, thirty years ago there was no group in my area. I concur that you should hold off on shaving your legs. Yes, dark tights in the winter should work well. Having one discussion will not necessarily lead to an open discussion every day, week or month. This does not mean you are out of the DADT relationship. It sounded from this thread your wife had knowledge of your cross dressing. It was not an unknown issue, just not discussed. I wish you well.

[Leslie Langford]

Sorry to pee on your parade, mikell, but my take-away from your post was that your wife suffers from some sort of Queen Bee syndrome, and you have decided (inadvertently or not) to be submissive to her and to cater to her every whim, idiosyncrasy, prejudice, dogma, and preconceived notion etc. - unyielding and uncompromising as they may be. I don't call this overcoming - or even successfully managing - a DADT relationship; I call it her throwing you a bone, and you gratefully accepting such presumed favors. Your wife appears to be a controlling bully from the way you describe the dynamic between the two of you, and you have allowed your guilt and shame over your crossdressing to allow her to manipulate and control you, as well as set the tone for your marriage. This is not a partnership of equals, it looks more like a mother and child relationship.

Sorry to be so hard on you, mikell, but you need to grow a pair. I speak from experience, as I, too, have had to deal with a headstrong and often uncompromising wife for close to 44 years of marriage. And believe me, I know what DADT is, and how damaging that can be to a marriage, never mind the self-esteem of the one at the receiving end. For many years, I was very much like you in that I often took my lumps for the sake of marital harmony (although, oddly enough, that never seemed to suffice) and in atonement for my "sins", all the while trying to be the "nice guy" while enduring all the negativity about my crossdressing that was emanating from my wife.

But you know what turned the corner for me? Participating in this forum, reading the stories of so many others like me here, realizing that I was not alone in this, and learning from the experiences of others. And to say that all this new knowledge provided me with an epiphany and a sense of empowerment that I had never felt before would be an understatement. The result? I began to push back - hard. Was it a pretty picture? No. But as history has taught us, appeasement only works for a limited amount of time, and in the end, a bully will yield their ground only when confronted head-on.

The outcome in my case? Yes, we still have DADT, but a far more benign and tolerable version of it where there are no more lies, hiding, dishonesty, or misrepresentations - and most important of all - no more guilt for me associated with what I do. Boundaries are more clearly defined now, and each of us now knows where he/she stands. My wife may not like the idea of me crossdressing any more than before, but at least she understands now that this will always be a part of me, and respects the fact that if nothing else, I have always been consistent in keeping this out of her face by recognizing how uncomfortable this makes her. And believe me, our marriage is 100% better now for having put it back on an equal footing in this way.

The choice is yours, mikell. Use all of the resources that this forum has put at your disposal, and decide then whether or not you wish to continue to live a life of subservience...

[mykell]

leslie WOW thats what you got from my post, from my writing of a short conversation i shared on forum you decide that im a spineless worm riddled with guilt and shame and begging to be accepted by my wife while she plays with my emotions like she would a child.

then you find in in your heart that if you show me some tough love here that i "man up" and learn by your mistakes and use your bullish techniques that matrimonial bliss will be accomplished, for my short time here i have learned nothing and dont understand what others have shared and wont have a "sudden and striking realization", all this for me to have months ago have what you achieved with your method, "no more lies, hiding, dishonesty, or misrepresentations - and most important of all - no more guilt for me associated with what I do. Boundaries are more clearly defined now, and each of us now knows where he/she stands. My wife may not like the idea of me crossdressing any more than before, but at least she understands now that this will always be a part of me, and respects the fact that if nothing else, I have always been consistent in keeping this out of her face by recognizing how uncomfortable this makes her."

thats what i got from your post.

leslie you dont know me and you certainly dont know my wife, as equals we shared discussion about this bizarre lifestyle and the trepidation....we've faced our fear and worry with resolve to overcome and persevere, conversation, short ones but conversations all the same with mutual risk in the game....respect for each other and our son, forging ahead into unknown territory as a family. from a few sentences of my post i dont believe you could identify with how we are as a couple, much less offer the caustic reply which you chose to share....

you stated that your "sorry to pee on my parade" but that didnt stop you from doing so. i shared what was i milestone in my life with the group and all you thought of was to tear it down piece by piece, on an open forum and judge and insult my wife and myself....and you referred to her as the bully, i digress....

thank you for your suggestions and good luck with your relationship....

[TerriM]

Mikell, I think that was a big step you took and i know how much courage it took to do it. My wife has known over 30 yrs and we very rarely talk about Terri. i hang some of my clothes in our closet, which she never comments on. When I do get out, about 1x a month she doesn't say anything. She wants no part of my femme side, something I have accepted. My family, which is large and very close, has always come first. I wish she would talk, but she won't. My key word is balance.

[mykell]

nikki, jaye, jennifer, val, wanda, bridget, jamie, dorothy, sandra, katey, steph, terri, thank you all for the kind words and wishes,

although she may never accept this she is dealing with it, i have a private closet for my giant heels and clothes hidden from my son,
i will update with my trip to support and wish that those of you who cant find or get to one will be able to someday. thank you for the suggestions....

i do plan on starting a meet-up here if income comes available....

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Mikell, may peace be with you...

[Leslie Langford]

mikell, you're absolutely right...I don't know you or your wife personally, nor the full context of your marriage dynamic. Maybe things aren't/weren't as grim in your DADT relationship as your post seems to imply. And hey!...If it works for you, it really is no one else's business. Then again, you did put yourself out there in this forum, and in doing so implicitly opened yourself up to feedback - both positive and negative. And I I repeat: rightly or wrongly, that was my takeaway from your post. To wit:

...she goes now what...

....she states if you have to do it them go, still apprehensive her tone said no all the way.

....she tells me again that if i have to do it to help me get over it then go....

.... if you have to then go.

...want to shave my legs, would she have a problem with that, im not sure, maybe after, you cant have it in the summer when the boy will see...

...now im in shock....and i apologize for being me....then i ask her what she was thinking i was going to say in the beginning, she says she doesnt know.... i tell her im afraid shes going to leave when i talk about these things, then she says thats what she is afraid of, i reassure her that thats not what will happen, she says i cant promise that.... i reassure her again and she reiterates that i cant promise that...

...later in the night i gave her another squeezy hug and thanked her for the conversation....she has no idea how huge this was for me...

These do not strike me as the words of a man who is in any way near control of the conversation with his spouse, and is all about seeking permission to be who they are and apologizing for it as well. But I will say this - I respect the spunk that you have shown in answering my post and pointing out where you think I have gone off the rails in my perception of your situation. In the end this is what this forum should be all about - honest and constructive feedback, and I'll take my lumps, too, if I have to. But perhaps some of the spunk that you directed towards me here might be applied just as effectively in re-balancing the existing dynamic between your wife and yourself so that you both get an equal say in how your relationship is managed.

Dr. Phil's standard, definitive response to people who reach an impasse in their relationship with someone else is invariably "Is this working for you? That is the fundamental question which you have to ask yourself here as well. If it is, then feel free to completely ignore anything that I have said in either of my responses here.

I saw your original post as more of a plea for sympathy and a subconscious cry for help rather than a triumphant "H*ll, yeah!" for the minimal progress that you have made in your DADT relationship with your seemingly intransigent wife. Perhaps I was wrong, but that said, I ,too, wish you much success in moving forward in your particular way if that works for you.

[Amy Lynn3]

Mikell, congratulation on working out the next step in your relationship. All relationships are different, as we don't have a one size fits all, but you worked within the bounds set by years of marriage.

We all know you can't change, so the wife is the only one who can and she is, even though they may be baby steps for some, they are big ones for her. I think she is the one who gets the big atta girl in this issue.

[mykell]

leslie,
i dont mind negative, but you lack tact and come across as very belittling, condescending, with insult, "suggest i grow a pair" thats not negative or constructive criticism.
if it wasnt a hell yea moment why did you apologize for urinating on my parade?? why would i even post it, i may have more to be desired to composing my thoughts into words but i try to get my point across as best im able......
that my wife and i share some fear in where this may be going does not make us weak, and when its all said and done we will be stronger....

minimal progress is progress all the same, some here have more, some less, some long for any acceptance, we are not a one size fits all community but with a few exceptions we try to help each other, not put each other down.....build each other up is what iv have experienced!!!
i dont know why you replied,
this is the first time i have felt this uncomfortable here so you have accomplished something.....

dont feel like im on a crossdressing support forum today.....

[kimdl93]

Isn't it nice when we all understand each other. You know, a little disagreement that is worked out through respectful debate actually is better than a dozen people chanting in unison, as the last brief exchange illustrates.

The same is true in communicating with our partners. Couples who tend to shy away from conflict, even disagreement are likely to leave issues unresolved. Those unresolved issues can place an avoidable, destructive strain on any relationship.

Mikel and partner have begun to address those issues. If they continue to do so in an honest, respectful manner, even when they disagree, they may be able to reach the first of what may be several mutually agreeable compromises.

[Nigella]

Closed at OPs REQUEST

[Tamara Croft]

Closed at OPs REQUEST

No it wasn't

Closed because the OP didn't like negativity....