Am I the only one around here who...

[Taylor Ray]

Okay. A warning first: this thread is about "spousal" and "GG" acceptance, but not in a "warm-hearted, compromise" type of way. It is an "alternative opinion", so traditionalists be warned! (I also want to state that this opinion does not in any way intend to take away from very real "family-issues" people may be experiencing, especially when children are involved.)

Question: why do so many CDs seem to be unabashedly beholden to the "rules" of their wives?

Are marriages so often on "shaky grounds" that expressions of individual creativity and gender-fluidity have to be "shoved under the carpet"?

Why are men so afraid to be themselves? What is this strange "illusory power" projected onto wives?

Isn't this idea of "having a choice to CD or not" just a big lie? There really is no choice.

This above all: To thine own self be true.

[pamela7]

times change in society - its getting easier, many places are distinctly redneck, many people could be betrayed by a rocky relationship, with fatal consequences.
My first marriage was to the wrong person for the wrong reasons, but that created lovely children who would not have been otherwise.
Now yes I'm in a relationship where all is open, but yes its easy for people to know they can't trust their spouse/SO.
If you could lose job, home, social standing, of course people are in fear - few have truly transcended these things with perfect open relations.

There is no choice, but then tell me who does not put on a mask at work?
Who is the self? We are everything and nothing, there is nothing i am not - my self is the all, including you ...

[Tanya+]

In my case, i love my wife. From my heart i made a promise to love her for life. So the rules are about finding a path of expressing myself without damaging her heart or my relationship with her. The rules arise out of my own priorities. My love is reciprocated by her gradual acceptance love and encouragement. I have a degree of choice in my dressing, and i choose when and how to express it. I am a Cross Dresser, but i am a husband/father/worker/friend/mentor, and i choose to take in to account the reactions, feelings and consequences of what i do. I have let go of a lot the fear through the love of my life, my choices now are pretty rational. Be true to yourself, but be true and kind to those around you too.

[Rachael Leigh]

Tanya that is very well said and we all have different circumstances that we deal with, even if this isn't a choice we can choose to dress or not at any given time

[Annaliese]

Taylor I agree totally, great points

[Taylor Ray]

Wow! Thanks Tanya and Pamela, for your very honest and powerful replies.

Duty to home and family is a very Real existential obligation.

And Tanya, "There is nothing I am not". Wow. You have blown my mind on a Tuesday evening. Thank you.

[Kandi Robbins]

Men are afraid to be themselves because that would show our true feeling and we are raised not to do that. Until recently, I was your typical male, didn't show my feelings, didn't really open up to anyone. Also, I would agree, once bitten by the CD bug so to speak, there is no choice. There is either acceptance or denial. Acceptance leads to how we then begin feeling about ourselves and how we manage this aspect of our lives. Denial leads us right back to where we started, suppressing our true feelings. Took me way to long to learn all of this, but am embracing who I really am now.

[sometimes_miss]

Question: why do so many CDs seem to be unabashedly beholden to the "rules" of their wives?

This is a trick question, right? Seeing as the chance of finding another woman who would even consider DATING a crossdresser, most of us realize that any woman who will stick with a guy who crossdresses is worth her weight in gold, and is VERY careful to not upset her in any way, as the results could be disastrous. If I could find a woman who truly was O.K. with me crossdressing and loved me anyway, I'd do just about anything she wanted, for as long as she wanted it, turn over my paycheck, rub her back/feet etc., daily, you name it, I'd do it. Such women probably don't realize how rare they are, or they'd probably insist on way more 'perks' than they have at the moment.

[Kate Simmons]

Most men want to please their wives at any cost. If Mamma ain't happy ain't nobody happy. Plus the couch gets kinda lonely after awhile.

[Samantha Clark]

Another way to look at this is that the relationship between any spouses (CD or not) is the inverse of a mutual assured destruction (MAD) relationship (not sure how to describe or label that better, perhaps obligatorily symbiotic?) or else it devolves into mutual assured destruction. I don't think that what appears to be "beholden to rules" is really an accurate description of the relationship. I feel the relationship with a spouse is an inter-dependent and mutually supporting, loving, caring relationship. That means I won't dress up in the bedroom because it turns my SO off.

If my SO was adamantly opposed to my dressing under any circumstances, then that would be a different matter and I would say that that marriage is on shaky grounds. Not because someone is beholden to rules but because it's not based on mutual respect and support. That kind of marriage is likely headed down the MAD path.

I think an obligatorily symbiotic relationship is much preferable and, while it may appear to some to be so, it does not involve being beholden to rules set down by either spouse.

[StephanieinSecret]

Most men want to please their wives at any cost. If Mamma ain't happy ain't nobody happy. Plus the couch gets kinda lonely after awhile.

So only that happiness of the wife matters?
I think both men and women feel good when they please their spouse, so dividing that along gender lines is pointless.

I can't imagine marrying someone that I can't be honest with, and to be fair, a lot of forum members create their own problems by keeping their CD secret way too long. However, this idea of "women and women first" inevitably leaves a lot of us feeling shortchanged.

[kimdl93]

I can only speak for myself. I have what I think is a very strong relationship and generally we communicate quite openly and effectively. Not perfect, but pretty well. And I know that she considers my feelings, my preferences and aspirations just as I try to do the same with her. Yes, I try to understand and accommodate these in my actions. Neither of us lives by the dictates of the other, but we do try to meet each other half way. In my estimation that willingness to empathize and compromise is at the core of any successful relationship and so lacking from many a failing marriage.

[Taylor Ray]

Another way to look at this is that the relationship between any spouses (CD or not) is the inverse of a mutual assured destruction (MAD) relationship (not sure how to describe or label that better, perhaps obligatorily symbiotic?) or else it devolves into mutual assured destruction. I don't think that what appears to be "beholden to rules" is really an accurate description of the relationship. I feel the relationship with a spouse is an inter-dependent and mutually supporting, loving, caring relationship. That means I won't dress up in the bedroom because it turns my SO off.

This level of analysis is very refreshing: both honest and intellectually sound, this expression moves me to open my heart, and be more open to aspects of "relationship" that my inherent egoism is quick to dismiss. Thank you for sharing.

[carahawkwind]

It's like anything where if you and your partner can't find common ground at some point it can end up being destructive to the relationship. My wife isn't restrictive with me at all, but there are times where she's been less than 100% comfortable with some aspect of my dressing, and I've backed off some because a distressed relationship isn't worth pushing it. I did however make sure I came out to wife well before we were engaged and fairly early in our relationship, I knew if I didn't get some level of acceptance, the relationship probably wouldn't be sustainable. I think a lot of the time, the more difficult arrangements come when you come out late in the game to point where you have too much to lose, if you suddenly find yourself in a "dressing or me" sort of situation.

[Nikkilovesdresses]

You're right- you're not being warm hearted and if you have a life without compromise, you are indeed the only one.

But you're right about one thing: to thine own self be true is an admirable maxim. Keep that thought in mind when the judge gives your ex the house you paid for and half your future earnings, won't you.

[PaulaQ]

Because of the social stigma associated with feminine behavior in straight men, most of you here feel a great deal of guilt and shame. You feel, internally, that what you do is wrong. You fear being alone - what woman could possibly love you?

In other words, many TG people internalize the stigma against us.

So if a spouse accepts at all, the CD has great incentive internally to try to make things work with their spouse.

There are some really wonderful women here who are worth it - who really love and accept their CD spouse. Most, unfortunately, simply aren't worth it. Sorry, but that's how I see it. The transphobia inherent in so many in society affects a high percentage of our spouses. It's just not worth staying with someone who HATES a fundamental part of you, in my opinion.

I'm sorry this is such a negative sounding post - but there are just an awful lot of women who are transphobic, selfish, and self-entitled. (There are plenty of men who match such a description as well, but only a relatively small number of CDs here are in relationships with men.)

But if you think that's all so awful, be glad you aren't transsexual, and accused of selfishness for seeking what is often life saving medical care.

[bridget thronton]

My wife's rules were centered around protecting our kids (now married adults). There no rules beyond not being out too publicly in our home town. Vacationing as a female is OK.

[pamela7]

You're right- you're not being warm hearted and if you have a life without compromise, you are indeed the only one.

But you're right about one thing: to thine own self be true is an admirable maxim. Keep that thought in mind when the judge gives your ex the house you paid for and half your future earnings, won't you.

Yeah been there, done that, first time around ... true to myself at a price worth paying. This time tho, marriage is for keeps!!!

[Lynn Marie]

I walked on eggshells for years trying to keep my ex happy. When I filed for divorce I found my cajones in a jar under the bed on her side. I took them with me and never looked back. I may be a classy old broad, but I don't have to get permission from anyone to live my life as I wish. I'll never give anyone the authority to "let" me do as I like. Sort of an onery old cuss, huh? Life has never been so good.

[Katey888]

Hmmm.... bit of a glum perspective to start the day with but I'll give it a go...

Marriages on shaky grounds - about half of all western marriages fail: completely. I'd take a stab and say a good percentage of the remainder (perhaps another half) are shaky but cling on with their fingernails through compromise and gritted teeth. Half of the rest probably just don't care (eg. golf widows) and perhaps one in ten or twenty are lucky enough to really latch on to their soul mate...

And that's all just normal relationships - throw in the curve ball of CD and values and behaviours are modified again. Of course you'd want to roll out the red carpet for a GG that accepts you... and potentially lay down at the end as a welcome mat too.. Cynical - maybe; reality - probably...

Remember also, that a forum's tendency to opine is set by the demographic of it's members... and around two-thirds of the members who join here are ALREADY out to wives or SOs who accept, support or tolerate this part of them. To me, it's therefore not surprising that this forum holds the opinions it does, but that does NOT mean they are universally representative in the global population.

Speaking personally, I try to have a balanced relationship with my wife, but people are people - compromise is a judgment by individuals. I don't tell her about this because of what I would anticipate would be a deleterious impact on me, not necessarily just her, and so I make compromises.

And wives do have power - it's not illusory...

Katey x

[pamela7]

And wives do have power - it's not illusory...

Katey x

they do indeed :-)))

[Dianne S]

Keep that thought in mind when the judge gives your ex the house you paid for and half your future earnings, won't you.

Unlikely nowadays. It's more likely to be an even split; at least here in Canada, judges don't "punish" spouses for transgenderism. In fact, a highly-asymmetric asset split is most unlikely unless there has been egregious abuse on the part of one spouse.

Anyway, I'm going through a split right now. It's emotionally gruelling but as the joke asks:

Q: Why are divorces so expensive?
A: Because they're worth it.

[alwayshave]

In the U.S. it depends on the state. Some states, such as Virginia, its a 50/50 split with no alimony. In states like Massachusetts its about an 80/20 split in favor of the women, with punitive child support (twice the national average) and alimony.

[Erika Lyne]

Taylor Ray,

This is a very interesting question and as I've read many of the responses I've agreed with so many and I'd like to add a bit to it as well of my own personal views.

First off, it is in human nature to be selfish, it is a self preservation instinct. Gather things for yourself first. Secondly, community and family are taught and are closely related. We are taught how to treat others in our close circles and further taught how to act in society. We are taught what is right and wrong and how to care for others by being cared for ourselves. As we expand our experiences, further relationships and realize that what may make us happy may not make others happy. We learn compromise and how to share. Sure we'd like to eat the whole chocolate cake as a kid but at some point we say, "I'll be ok with one piece, if my friends and family can share in my joy."

Now, take these instincts and socially learned skills to the extreme and apply it to CDing. What makes us CDers happy is perceived in the general population as inappropriate behavior, unacceptable, laughable, a threat to femininity and masculinity, as well as just an insult to the basis of the pigeon hole practices of modern western civilization. We are frequently down on ourselves because we have not found a way to fit in the pigeon holes and we have not been able to just accept that the pigeon holes of society do not ever comfortably fit anyone. We may have found a SO/spouse who is accepting to a certain degree. We are allowed in private, limited outings or what ever restrictions are placed upon us by our accepting, however restrictive, spouse to express ourselves in a manner that goes against the grain of society. Subconsciously, we hold our SO in high reguard because it shows that they have an understanding for us that we are typically having a hard time coping with. Plus, the happiness that they have extended to us by allowing a certain amount of dressing freedoms by whatever limits are imposed is reciprocated by the CDer following her rules and limits. It is further honored by many showering her with whatever would make her happy in return: materialistic desires, spa days, gifts of clothing when we'd buy something for ourselves, etc. Our own selfish instincts to make our selves happy are overshadowed by our training to share in our own joy driven by the inherent need to feel accepted. Our SOs accept us, allow us to be selfish and in return we accept their selfish needs and accept their limits. It is a higher social standard than is witnessed in many relationships, these relationships are more symbiotic. Both parties benefit, emotionally and socially by allowing the other's selfish needs to be fulfilled even if that fulfillment has limits and restrictions.

With that all being said and reading many responses to several threads, I guess I tend to push her rules and limts a bit more than most. Personally, I want more acceptance from my spouse. I know I am guilty of this and it hurts our relationship at times but I commited myself to my spouse. I have given her everything that I can, materialistic and emotional. I have helped her reach her dreams and goals, many she never thought were possible. I've helped her achieve her "selfish" needs (I'm not being judgemental, just a lack of a better word and using a term already described here above.). I'm waiting for, hoping for, wishing for my turn. Yes, my spouse is very accepting compared to many. Yes, I am greatful for the amount of freedoms that she has extended me but I want the dream comparable to the dreams I've helped her achieve. Selfish? Yes. Unobtainable? Maybe but, I'll never know if I'm not allowed to try. Unreasonable? I don't think so. It is my turn. Does this all mean that I regret helping her reach her goals? By no means. I have been witness to her personal joy in achievements and goals reached. I wouldn't change that even if I could. I just want a turn.

Waiting, hoping, wishing,

-E

PS: She is here on this site too and will probably see this post. To Purple Puppy GG: I do love you, I am not mad or regret where we are. I just would like a turn to smile and I want you to share in that joy.

[Marleena]

There are some really wonderful women here who are worth it - who really love and accept their CD spouse. Most, unfortunately, simply aren't worth it. Sorry, but that's how I see it. The transphobia inherent in so many in society affects a high percentage of our spouses. It's just not worth staying with someone who HATES a fundamental part of you, in my opinion.

I'm sorry this is such a negative sounding post - but there are just an awful lot of women who are transphobic, selfish, and self-entitled. (There are plenty of men who match such a description as well, but only a relatively small number of CDs here are in relationships with men.)

But if you think that's all so awful, be glad you aren't transsexual, and accused of selfishness for seeking what is often life saving medical care.

Paula I'm sorry your reveal went so badly but you really need to let the anger go. No woman can be expected to accept a TG spouse, especially when they feel blindsided far along into a marriage. In a perfect scenario they need to know early on in a relationship. Many of us think this will go away (TG/TS) but it just doesn't and that's the most important thing to know here. Most women get married to who they think are cismales or alphamales only to feel blindsided like I said. Nobody prepared them for this and it will take time to adjust if they ever can. Does it suck, you bet, but it's reality. Most cisgender people don't understand this because they see things as black & white, they see you as either male or female with no deviation from the norm. I'm looking at this objectively.