How can we change our view in society

[Carly CD]

My wife and I went shopping yesterday for some sewing items so I can start making some new steampunk outfits. It made me wonder how is crossdressing much different? When we dress, we change our appearance and our personality from our "norm". When I work as a haunt actor, I change my appearance and become Edgar Burke. The same happens when my wife and I attend renaissance festivals and steampunk events. The last three events people accept and many thinks it's cool. So why is crossdressing harder for some to accept, when it's not much different than other forms of role-playing? I think because it is viewed by many as a sexual fetish. I feel that movies, tv, music, etc have fueled that image so much, that people can't get past it. When I'm Carly it allows me to express my femine side, Edgar allows me to express a darker, more evil side and the same happens with my goofy steampunk character (think Dr. Who) and a more proper, defined side at the renaissance festivals. I wonder how we can shift our lifestyle away from the fetish lifestyle and drag queens and into a more accepted lifestyle.

[Rachael Leigh]

Carly, I like how you think and agree it really is just an expression of a different part of our personalitys.
While it's different than most it's still is just an expression

[Lorileah]

when you are playing a role, people see you as that role. It isn't YOU, it is a character. When you participate in SteamPunk you are in a group that is also dressed that way and everyone assumes you do it for fun. When you crossdress you have two hundred years of negative publicity to overcome. Do you do it to be a woman? How creepy is that since you were MADE a man. It doesn't make sense. Was there something in your childhood? Were you molested? Did someone turn you gay? You like kids don't you? You must because you are fooling them to get them to trust you as a woman...after all. Did you keep your dead mother in the attic while you wore her clothes and killed women in the shower? Are you making a suit out of skin? How about robbing a bank, you must have planned doing that because you are wearing a disguise. You are going to try and steal my boyfriend or husband aren't you? You are a weakling aren't you? You don't like manly things like cars or sports. You probably don't like women.

See? Nothing above has a positive. No,you look awesome in that outfit. I like how that eye shadow brings out your eyes. I don't think I ever saw a news article that said "Steampunk people are criminals looking to break laws" Have you seen a movie where the villain is steampunk (and wasn't science fiction or fantasy)

It sounds like a great argument that YOU aren't (choose the stereotype above), you are just a normal male who likes to dress up. But why? Why would you? there must be a deeper meaning somewhere...

[Jenniferathome]

...When we dress, we change our appearance and our personality from our "norm". When I work as a haunt actor, I change my appearance ... people accept and many thinks it's cool. ...

No, people don't accept it, they set aside their expectation of normal because of the venue and purpose. You are SUPPOSED to be dressed for such an event. There is a common interest. A cross dresser is NEVER supposed to be cross dressed. It's never normal. The exception being that one can cross dress for an event aimed at cross dressers. The COMMON interest is upheld.

I can't see cross dressing even being "accepted" in general but I would argue that today cross dressing is actually tolerated.

[Adriana Moretti]

Those who post unshaven pics of them in panties are REALLY not helping. either....along with the Craigslist Closet Queens........I could keep going....but now I cant get that image out of my head....

[Michelle 78]

It does get my goat as well, last week a work colleague of mine come into work dressed in a leotard a tutu fishnet tights and women's leg warmers for charity, it was all taken as a joke of course and it was for a good cause and good on him, but why is real cross dressing just not accepted as part of life, it's always ok when it's a joke. I don't think we will ever be accepted as part of the norm. I agree with Adriana the pervs don't help our cause either because that's what dressing is always seen as perverted, Gay and socially unacceptable by a lot of uneducated and narrow minded people who just can't be changed. This is the way of the world unfortunately, I think in some parts of the world it may be tolerated as Jennifer said, but as a whole, no way.

As Carly asks what can we do to change it? who knows, Lorilear summed it up, it is not seen as positive.


PS sorry to rant

[justmetoo]

Sounds like you have a lot of fun with the steampunk and Ren Faire costuming! (I love both myself, but haven't done much of it)

I think Lorileah and Jennifer hit the nail on the head. I think you and Adriana and Michelle also make good points about the public perception of crossdressing currently and historically. I think the way that public perception changes is through things like visibility and education in positive ways, ways that show we are the same as non-CDs, apart from the CDing itself. As more of the general public can put put an actual human face on this the more the caricatures will fade into the background.
Another thing I truly believe that can help "the cause" is greater gender equality all around. When women are not seen as second class citizens fewer people will think it's demeaning for a man to exhibit any so-called feminine traits or to emulate females.
In both cases I think we're talking about generational changes, which means things get better incrementally, over generations. Along that timeline there may be "tipping" points where a larger shift in public perception will become evident.

[NicoleScott]

Why is it OK for you to dress up for role-play, or to express your feminine side, but not OK for others to crossdress for sexual enjoyment? If there is a perception that there is a sexual aspect to crossdressing, it is because there is (for some - not for all).

[LilSissyStevie]

Come on, Nicole, you know real women don't like sex!

[Kacey Black.]

I understand what you're getting at as well Carly... but sadly I agree with Jennifer & Lori. We'll be long gone before THAT society becomes reality.

[Carly CD]

Another thing I truly believe that can help "the cause" is greater gender equality all around. When women are not seen as second class citizens fewer people will think it's demeaning for a man to exhibit any so-called feminine traits or to emulate females.
In both cases I think we're talking about generational changes, which means things get better incrementally, over generations. Along that timeline there may be "tipping" points where a larger shift in public perception will become evident.

I think that point is key as well. We has a society need to get away with the thought that females are "weaker" or anything feminine is a sign of weakness. It will take time to change but I think it can happen.

Hopefully someday we can get to a point when I say " I crossdress" people will react the same as when I mention the faire, steampunk and being a haunt actor, and be like "cool" whether if they are into it or not. Unlike now where some want to think of you as a freak, or in some cases want to use physical violence against you.

Why is it OK for you to dress up for role-play, or to express your feminine side, but not OK for others to crossdress for sexual enjoyment? If there is a perception that there is a sexual aspect to crossdressing, it is because there is (for some - not for all).

I never said it was not OK. I was pointing out, like others did as well, that one of the first images that people think of when you say crossdresser is one of a sexual fetish. Until that is changed it will be very hard for us to be accepted. Sure for some crossdressing has a sexual aspect to it, that is fine, you can make a sexual fetish out of anything. But when the only side of crossdressing that gets thrown out into the public on a regular basis is the sex side, then we have a problem. There is a big sexual fetish with interracial sex, but when I see a interracial couple I don't instantly think of the fetish aspect, I see a couple walking by.

[Kacey Black.]

I wonder how we can shift our lifestyle away from the fetish lifestyle and drag queens and into a more accepted lifestyle.

Then again, one could say "it's just clothes." Then stare em down and go on with your bad self!

Better than tighty-whities and a tie... and a sweater vest.... Boring!

I'm still ok with ya!

[tiffanynjcd24]

When people look at shows like jerry springer see the crossdressers on there or crossdressers that post nasty stuff on craigslist, there are two things that comes to peoples mind, one it is not normal for a guy to wear dresses and two they feel that crossdressing is a sexual fetish. Its a certain way how people sees crossdressers as. Also those closet cders are giving other crossdressers a bad rep. I think that when we dress up, we have a right to express our feminine side and be true to ourselves

[Beverley Sims]

Probably the same way that we discussed it at length then six months ago.

[Alice Torn]

One thing is for sure. Parents do not want crossdressers near their children! I was out my second time out, in Seattle in 2005, and a family in a car parked next to mine, had a dead battery. The father reluctantly had to ask me ,(all dressed up, in short dress, and dark hose, and high heels), for a battery jump. So, as i would always do, in guy mode, said yes i will. He then told his children, to not look. Every person on here, is a crossdresser, or TS ot TG. But, we each, are not that different than the vanilla public, in that we each have different family backgrounds, influences, possible religious influences, marriages, children, lifetime single issues, and mental and emotional states, and some have very good reasons for staying closeted, due to personal issues, family and work. Some were bullied much of their lives, and some, like me, are a bit paranoid, plus some nervous disorders. Not all of us are good at going out dressed for a number of reasons, while some take to going out, like a duck takes to water. Some of us, can have our lives ruined, if our secret goes out. Society can be cruel, indifferent, or tolerant.

[Allisa]

One person at a time, when asked "Why?" give a honest and informative answer as to why you do it and hope you have educated and opened a mind.The negative will always be there, change is always hard to come by. The more crossdressing comes into view the more chances to educate. Keep the faith and going strong.

[Nadya]

That's a tough question to answer. Maybe the more people realize how many crossdressers are actually out there, the more it will be accepted. Ha, easier said than done. Many of us (including myself) still have trouble even going out in public.

[Kacey Black.]

Maybe it isn't all that tough Ryce... and others.

Not to hijack a thread here... but...

I guess you could sit here & talk about it... or maybe just go out. You yourself look just fine to me and I wouldn't have questioned it once.

Can you walk the way you want? Do you look ok to you? If so...

[Mia Brankovic]

Be the Change...start an advocacy organization...

[Zooey]

Come on, Nicole, you know real women don't like sex!

Wow... Seriously?

[kimdl93]

Honestly, there is a difference between pretend and real life. Everyone knows that you're not a Medieval knight, or the character you present in Steampunk attire. But for many CDrs this is more than a costume. And it comes with a whole array of societal presumptions that run fairly deep. It takes time for societies to shed such ingrained notions. We change them with each encounter we have in real life, assuming we present ourselves with self respect.

[LelaK]

The main obstacle to societal acceptance seems to be not understanding. I can't understand other people's "fetishes" (or identities or self-concepts), but I can understand my own, so I can live and let live.

The other main obstacle IMO is that straight men don't like finding themselves attracted to someone who's not female and they often think we're trying to fool them.

[Gillian Gigs]

You change the world one person at a time. It is by showing love, compassion and caring that people will see that Cd'ers are just people with quirks, and we all have quirks. Love those who abuse you, speak well of them and show kindness even though they are being unkind, then you will be showing yourself to be the bigger person, regardless of your fashion statement.

[Pat]

I think that there is a general negative perception of TS/TV/CD folks out there, but it's an abstract one -- something people use as their first approach because they have no firsthand experience. If you can appear before them and not be any of those things they fear then they are willing to accept you as an exception. If they meet enough exceptions in their lifetime then they'll start to reject the negative stereotypes.

[melanie206]

I don't think of being fem as being in costume or some sort of goofy re-enactment. Just like blacks, gay people, Jews and any other discriminated-against group, we will never be completely out of danger. We can be as nice as we want but only when the self-righteous, moralistic pinheads among us have something to fear will we have some semblance of freedom.