Is it *really* about passing?

[Rogina B]

Have confidence in your presentation as well as yourself.Engage with those around you,and you will be viewed in a positive way and all thoughts "in your wake" will be good ones!

[flatlander_48]

(Sign in a hot rod shop: "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?")

The answer would be:

Not very fast due to that old Hawaiian disease: Lakamuny...

The concept of Passing is only a target; and a fairly unobtainable one at that. Even if you got the visuals down, and that's a BIG If, there's still speech and socialization. Speech you can also work on, but if you are a woman in your 40's, you've had the better part of 4 decades of socialization. If you have been socialized as a male all of your life, incorporating the opposite into your psyche is likely not an easy thing to do. And personally, I do not try.

The security of my confidence begins with my perception of how I look. If I am pleased with how I look, given what I am going to do, that represents starting from a very good place. This has always been true for me; as male and as female. If one obsesses about Passing, all that will do is blunt the enjoyment to be gained from being out and among friends.

DeeAnn

[GenieGirl]

I think in the beginning for a lot of us venturing out our first times it is much so about passing. A lot of that is probably due to anxiety of the unknown and fear of what people will think seeing and knowing you aren't a woman. Once we reach our comfort level it becomes less and less about passing and more about living your everyday normal lives as women and being happy doing so. I passed the stages of feeling the need to pass and I just go out and do my thing and meet new people in the process and taking every opportunity to educate people on transgender people.

I have gotten many shocks from people when I tell them I am male and its great to get positive responses from it. I "used to" always assume everyone knew I was a boy in drag and that didn't bother me one bit but I've learned I can't make that assumption. It has made for some great stories and experiences though. I am completely open with that part of me with people I meet.

[Andy66]

I just want to point out that some of us think CDs and transpeople are beautiful, even if they dont always look like a unicorn.

...As for MY appearance... have you ever heard the expression, you can put a saddle on a pig, but that dont make him a racehorse? Thats me. Oink. But at least Im a comfortable, mostly happy little piggie.

[Katey888]

Passing is a ridiculous concept.

We all should have someone accompany us who whispers this in our ear over and over again, like the Roman generals that had a slave reminding them "you are only a mortal man" during a triumph... Although perhaps ridiculous is a little harsh, particularly as we are GMs masquerading or portraying as GGs and therefore passing is really only a relevant concept to us - the muggles don't go about assessing a passability rating for every male or female they meet... Generally, if the cues are there that define gender in the context of the local culture (let's not forget that other cultures have differing gender cues) most people will accept the view at face value. For western cultures I'd suggest the strongest visual cues (at a non-personal distance) are hairstyle and length; type of clothing; physique, particularly height and build; and gait. As you get into a closer proximity you'd then get facial features and use of makeup; jewellery and clothing details; and voice, if in earshot. I always assume by 'passing' we generally mean at a distance - and most folk don't look too closely so if the major cues are there (long hair; feminine clothes; feminine gait) that's probably a tick in the box. If you're a larger build then you'll probably get a second look, just as some particularly tall or heavily-built GGs would, but then the secondary details - makeup, jewellery, etc. - would come into play and might still 'pass' you.

It's academically interesting for us because it means a lot to many of us who 'femulate' - and of course it's even more important to those who are TS because it really is about expressing and projecting their innate gender. For those of us who rarely or never brazen the outside world, I doubt we should (or do) worry too much.

While being an unashamed femulator, I actually find discussing it sometimes a little insensitive and potentially very judgmental. How many GGs honestly discuss amongst themselves who has the most cover-girl looks? Or who really has a centrefold figure...? There are a tiny percentage amongst us who are blessed with ALL the most feminine male attributes to pass convincingly; there's a bigger (but still small) percentage who can make a good distance pass; many of us will have experienced more of Isha's 'wake effect' where common decency and politeness (and lack of interest) mean that most people who do make us then don't scream and point fingers like 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers'... and I believe what's more important is that those of us that do exhibit ourselves in public do so respectfully and in a way that is both true to ourselves and who we are, and the context of the environment we are in.

I imagine the route to broader acceptance lies more in that direction, and I'd rather have that for all of us than a largely unattainable or theoretical 'pass' for some...

Katey x

[mechamoose]

I just want to point out that some of us think CDs and transpeople are beautiful, even if they dont always look like a unicorn.

^^ this

So much THIS.

<3

- MM

[Dianne S]

Contrarian view here. Yes, passing is very important to me. As someone in the midst of transition, I want to be accepted as a woman. I want to live as a woman and don't particularly want to be perceived as a man; that adds complications that I just don't need. So yes... I do my level best to pass. I lucked out unbelievably with genetics --- I'm only 5'2", so the major impediment to passing is removed. I still have plenty of other tells, though, and I work the hardest I can to overcome them.

When it comes right down to it, no, I don't really care that much what other people think. But I do want people to perceive me the way I perceive myself, and I want to minimize the complications in my life.

[flatlander_48]

I would posit that the idea of Passing means something very different for transexuals as compared to crossdressers. That involves change leading towards a permanent shift. Dressing is a start and stop activity. In the majority of cases, we're not planning to live and interact with the world as females on a continuing basis. It comes and goes. Very different proposition...

[Victoria Demeanor]

Yes, .. No ,... maybe? sorry whats the question? No really I do understand the importance to some to be "Passing" and to others to want to pass and as for me ya, I would love to be able to walk down the street without anyone taking a second look, well except to say WOW... I don't really have an honest stake in it one way or another. As I have just really started this journey into excepting my feminine side late in my years, I have a couple things going for me. 1. I've done it all and have the t-shirts. if anyone wants to complain, well they have to top me. 2. I'm old and mean and really I no longer care what people think of me. 3. I am damn sexy in a dress and yes I know it. So yes I would like to...."pass"... it's on my mind when I'm doing my makeup, but it's not the reason I'm doing any of this and it's not keeping me from going out........sorry the nurse just came in with my medication.....what were we talking about again?

[mechamoose]

...as for me ya, I would love to be able to walk down the street without anyone taking a second look,

My feeling is that this is what most of us want...

<3

- MM

[justmetoo]

I can only speak for myself, but it isn't about "passing" for me. All that really matters is that I am treated with the same courtesy or civility anyone should be treated with. If people laugh or talk after I passed by I won't know and don't care (or try not to). I used to get self-conscious about laughter (even en homme, because I am pretty nerdy), but I've tried to convince myself that if I'm going to imagine what people are thinking (because I don't read minds) then I might as well imagine that it's good stuff or at least that it's nothing to do with me specifically.

For those who live full time and do want to pass, I think that's more about being seen as and treated as who they are, no?

[flatlander_48]

Funny thing about laughter. In many situations, all it is is a kneejerk nervous reaction because we don't know what else to do or how else to respond...

[Rogina B]

For those who live full time and do want to pass, I think that's more about being seen as and treated as who they are, no?

Putting your genuine self out there. Only way to gain acceptance and inclusion.

[Persephone]

I agree, MM, that we should not dismiss the "good" in the search for the "perfect." I think it was Confucius who said, "Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without."

Nonetheless, we should not use mediocrity as an excuse for failed achievement.

Passing is a ridiculous concept.

Failing to strive and then blaiming the goal is failure, not success, and a "participation trophy" is not "first place."

Is it possible to pass? I don't completely know because it may be impossible to tell "passing" from "acceptance." But as a woman who is accepted in many groups and social circles, greeted with hugs, smiles, and genuine warmth, I certainly believe that passing, far from being a "rediculous concept," is not only possible but is possible for many more of us if we strive to achieve it.

It is far from easy, and it certainly will never be a "participation prize" for those who fail to put forth the effort, but it is real and it is doable.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[AngelaYVR]

Well, when I went out today I decided to pay particular attention to people's reactions. It was over 10C today and very sunny so the streets were packed giving me a very large sample size
The overwhelming majority didn't look
A statistically significant number did but for reasons unknown
- several of those that looked smiled
I got 2 audible "omg that was a guy" type comments
1 "what the hell" from a mother with kids
1 "you look beautiful" from a random woman. Thank you random woman!

So, no matter what my state of passing, I had a great day (and also bought a skirt and light jacket!)

Angela xox

[ReineD]

I just want to be me (as dissonant as I am) and have it be 'bumpless'. I want to do what I do and have *NO* attitude in response.

I agree this is ideal, but it is not realistic.

People have a wide range of responses to male-bodied individuals who cross the gender line in terms of presentation, whether they go full out presenting as a woman or they present with mixed gender cues. Some people are OK with neither, some with one and not the other, and some are OK with both. And in each category, the reactions run from mild to severe depending on the onlooker's background, geographic location, religious or conservative views, exposure to a wide variety of cultural and gender expressions, etc.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o M&M,
I hear what your saying, I think
Are we all a bunch of posers
Dressing and "passing" shouldn't be questioned!
For those of is that choose to venture out into the "Vanilla" world
Why wouldn't we want to blend perfecttly?
But for those that stay home, and keep this all at home, never seen by anyone, why would you
even make any differential between "us and them"?
Passing is the best possible presentation, but not the best possible outcome for anyone.
We are all individuals, with different hopes and desires.
Good enough?
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Claire Cook]

So, you my sisters here, those who are on the transition path or on the presentation path.. I want to ask this: Why is someone else seeing the seams and edges a 'failure'? I know you WANT to present flawlessly is the ideal. I get that. But I have to wonder, why are you losing 'good' while seeking 'perfect'?

- MM

I guess I'm losing sight of the question here. I'm not on the transition path, and since I'm out and about I guess I'm on the "presentation path." Perfection? Back that to that closing line of Some Like It Hot. Do any of us feel like we are "perfect"? For that matter, how many GG's think they are "perfect"? It's not about passing so much as being myself and being comfortable with myself. Rogina has it dead on -- being comfortable, confident and engaging works wonders. I don't hide that fact that I'm a guy, but I try to look and act as much like a woman as I can. Like Ginger, it must work sometimes since a number of my GG friends have told me that they didn't realize I was a guy until I told them. But that's not the point for me: what is the point, and important to me, is that those who know me both ways treat me as the person I am. That is all that I could ask for.

[Dana does shopping]

Yes, Yes it is, to say otherwise is to expose Yourself to danger. Too much fear & in-tolerance run rampant in our society.

[Sara Jessica]

Contrarian view here. Yes, passing is very important to me. As someone in the midst of transition, I want to be accepted as a woman. I want to live as a woman and don't particularly want to be perceived as a man...

I thought about the very point you bring up Dianne when I first responded to this thread. The reason I didn't go there is because the woman in transition (or who has essentially completed that journey) isn't trying to pass, she is simply being who she is and living her life. She doesn't wish to be perceived as anything but female any more than the rest of us but she clearly has more at stake for much different reasons and through the physical elements of transition often does more to minimize or eliminate any mistaken impression as to who she really is.

Nonetheless, we should not use mediocrity as an excuse for failed achievement. Failing to strive and then blaiming the goal is failure, not success, and a "participation trophy" is not "first place." Is it possible to pass? I don't completely know because it may be impossible to tell "passing" from "acceptance." But as a woman who is accepted in many groups and social circles, greeted with hugs, smiles, and genuine warmth, I certainly believe that passing, far from being a "rediculous concept," is not only possible but is possible for many more of us if we strive to achieve it.

It is far from easy, and it certainly will never be a "participation prize" for those who fail to put forth the effort, but it is real and it is doable.

I don't think anyone is saying that we shouldn't do our absolute best.

And your situation is much more different than most in these pages. You are embedded, so to speak, in many female spaces, presumptively with no one the wiser. Or at least that is what I have taken from your many posts over the last few years.

Are you "passing"? Heck, I don't know and I don't believe you can be certain either. It is a scenario where you may be able to approach zero without ever reaching it...and perhaps come closer to that mark than many/most of us here. Then again, I'd put you in a category with more in common with Dianne than with a lot of us here, including myself.

And yes, acceptance is a vastly different concept from passing when discussed in context with one another. I am generally accepted as a female when presenting as such but I would never go so far to say that this means I pass. I think that is where the concept of blending has gained ground. Doing one's best, being perceived as best we can as a female, being treated as a woman and even full blown acceptance all speak to blending while doing very little to speak of one's unmeasurable passing ability.

Personally, I do strive for the prize but my point has always been that despite my best efforts, I have come to expect that I will be perceived as being other than female. Whether at first glance or the tenth, or whether some completely miss the point and perceive me as being nothing but female, it is all irrelevant. There is much less stress in my life because I accept this about myself. This does not imply mediocrity in my efforts in any way, shape or form. It doesn't mean I'm blaming the goal for my inability to get there. It is simply that the goal, as passing is generally defined or understood, is impossible to measure so why obsess over it.

If we wish to change the definition of passing to being accepted in female spaces without confrontation, then we're talking about an entirely different discussion. I think that's been done, it's called blending.

[ophelia]

For me dressing and appearing beautiful gets me horny and full of energy. And not thinking quite straight.
Doing it in public is a little dangerous and I am sure that's where all the adrenaline and endorphines take over.
The prettier I present the higher the level of these delicious hormones and drugs.
I am sure that some people detect a man in a dress. I am confident that no one is able to say just which man is in that lovely dress. That's passing for me.
That said I think that over dressing, and dressing out of age appropriateness are things which could get you the wrong attention.

[Judith96a]

So...(just asking)

Is it about YOUR perception of yourself, or about THEIR perceptions of you?

I gotta ask.

Who are you trying to please, and why?
...

I have used this example many times. You could look like Earnest Borgnine in a sundress.. and you should experience *NO* embarrassment. You didn't *fail*. You were being YOU.

Why is that so bad?

<3

- MM

MM,
Who am I trying to please? Me actually! But here's the thing... regardless of whether I'm in boy mode or girl mode I'm VERY uncomfortable with the perception that everyone around me is staring and laughing. Whether they have either cause to do so or any right to do so is effectively immaterial, I still feel embarrassed and acutely uncomfortable. Perhaps I shouldn't but I do and unless I undergo a complete personality transplant that's the reality that I'm stuck with. So, part of being myself and pleasing me consists of establishing for myself a level of presentation that minimises the opportunities for embarrassment and discomfort - thus allowing myself the freedom to enjoy being whichever version (boy / girl) of 'me' that I want to be. I see it as establishing realistic, achievable goals that allow me to do what I want to.

As for the "Earnest Borgnine in a sundress" thing - I just haven't the right personality to pull that off and 'own' it. I had a 'friend' at school who could have - absolutely, with the proverbial bells on - but I can't. We're all different.

By the way, if anyone else wants to be dissonant, not quite fit in etc. - that's fine! I'm not going to criticise them. It's just not my way of living, thriving & surviving!

P.S. Being read by the little old lady on the bus isn't a failure, it's an expected outcome for which I need to be prepared.

[mechamoose]

You are all so cool!

<enjoying the banter>

- MM

[SherriePall]

I'm almost afraid to jump in, but I will anyhow. Do I want to pass? Let me answer this way: I do the best I can with what I have, using my make-up, clothing, hair, accessories, etc., to present as a woman.
I don't really try to blend. I'm not dressed to kill whenever I go out, but I seldom wear pants (OK, a couple of times). I even wore a skirt once when it was about 15-20 degrees F. Granted it was a below the knee, heavier material skirt. That was not blending. I do have a femme work-type badge I clip to my purse or coat to make it appear I am dressed the way I am because of work.
That all said, let me say that I really try to keep them guessing. If they see me as female, great! If they don't, I hope I keep them guessing like one time I was leaving a beauty store as two older women came in. I went back a while later and the consultant told me that one of the women (forgive me if you heard this before) asked her if I were a lady. The consultant replied by asking, "What do you think?"
The woman said she thought I was a special girl (one who visits that chain checking up on the local franchise), but questioned seeing some hair on my arms (and I had kept on pulling the sleeves down on the sweater). The other woman with her hadn't even taken special note of me.
Another make-up artist who had worked with Divine and others, told me as she worked on my face that many women have some masculine features.
So, we just have to keep them guessing and that is all the passing we need.

[Candice Mae]

Lately I've been focusing on being my self, rather them worry about wether or not someone I do or wear will out me. It's nice to be comfortable, relaxed, and enjoy myself rather then go about looking like a deer in the headlights watching everyone else.