Therapy and transition and SOs

[LeaP]

I think I'll chime in again with a few comments from a long call I just had. One bit of the conversation related to the comment Kaitlyn just made about this not being about trying. Nor is it about results. You will often hear that transition solves one problem (GD) even if, or as it creates others. That phrase implies a reasoned decision. The truth is usually something closer to being driven to taking transition steps. The resulting life may not be daisies and unicorns. With that, you often get the chipper rejoinder that "well, at least it's yours!" To which I say "so F'in what." Both the availability of a rational solution as well as ownership of the result are irrelevant to the action.

Term of the day, from the same phone call … "Radioactive Tranny Leper". Which turns out to be convenient shorthand to describe the impact of being trans on a relationship.

[PretzelGirl]

I guess I am either misreading something or I am replying in a way that is open to misinterpretation. There is a comment above that says that marriage can't survive and that is that and all you can be left with is a friendship. I know everyone here tries, but someone coming into this can take that above comment as it isn't worth any effort. I know the damage is huge and the odds are against it. But I don't think the few that survive would have survived without all of us trying. To compare to a sport, a baseball player can't bat .010 if they are not standing up at the plate 100% of the time.

that why
.....stay honest(especially with yourself as trite as that sounds), stay positive as best you can, and stay living day by day...

This is absolutely the way I look at it. I think in the long haul, a positive outlook gives you better odds of not losing something during transition, even if slight difference. I also believe the inverse. If you think something you are doing won't succeed, it won't.

Carri, I am the eternal optimist and it has served me well. I wish you the best with no negative outcomes. I just believe that should be our goal but while completely being prepared for each and every thing to go south on us so we are ready to deal with them.

[Aprilrain]

I think in the long haul, a positive outlook gives you better odds of not losing something during transition, even if slight difference. I also believe the inverse. If you think something you are doing won't succeed, it won't.

This has not been my experience in transition or in life. My experience has been that if you do the work you will get the result. Wether or not one is a Polly Anna or a grouch is immaterial I'm definitely a pesimist and it has never stopped me from achieving my goals. The truth is much of life is beyond our control so our attitude towards it is irrelevant. I do agree that being able to put a positive spin on any situation can make life a little more palatable... At least it seems like it would, I wouldn't personally know.

....that being said....
Go for it! The worst that can happen is no worse than has happened to some trans person and his or her partner before. It might be an epic fail (likely) or
it could be a resounding success (unlikely)
More than likely it will be something in between.

I'm different than a lot of people here, I couldn't get away from my wife fast enough! If they had drive through divorces I would have been there the day I walked out the door. I don't hate my ex we get along pretty well but I would not want to be married to her again. That bit was a mistake.

[Jessika]

HRT thus far has not changed my personality at all. I have always looked at it like this. My personality and who I am at my core has always been female. It's just my outward appearance that does not match. HRT is just helping to correct that. The only real change is that I am a LOT calmer than I used to be. I thought it would be more drastic but nope.

[tara.emily]

Unfortunately for me, when I came out to my SO, she first said that she would support me, then after a week or two she said that we had to keep it secret and shortly after that we broke up. For her, she said that she needs to have a man in her life, not a girlfriend.

On the good side of it, we are still in contact and now she really does give me support.

[LeaP]

One of the most common things heard from trans people is that we have not changed. I have said that myself – a lot!

It is also very common to hear from those close to us how much we have changed. I have heard that – a lot!

We may be the worst at assessing this sort of relational change. And that is what it is, really, not the kind of fundamental change that might be reflected in our self perception. Think of it akin to contextual optical illusions. In the right context, it is literally impossible to discern certain luminance changes, for example. And it is effectively just as impossible for people to see us as unchanged from a personal standpoint when there is so much other change going on with us. This perceptual shift is something that arises from other causes, too. The internal feelings evoked range widely from delight to alienation. I have more or less concluded that maintaining that I am the same person just doesn't matter.

[DebbieL]

My wife knew I was transgender even before we met, so she has always been a bit more supportive. When I told her that I needed to transition, she balked a bit, especially when I started HRT. The most important thing is to keep the lines of communication open, and try to be the best person you can be. The Spiro will lower your testosterone levels which makes you more calm and have less of a temper. The E will make you a bit more emotional and prone to cry. The most important thing is to communicate about why you are crying. If you are crying because you happy, make sure she knows it. If you are crying because you are inspired, say so. If you are crying because you are sad or miss a loved one who has passed, say so.

No doubt, your wife has already discovered how much effort it took for you to maintain your male mask. You probably had lots of strategies to avoid letting Carri show. My strategies included being a "know it all" with "factoid dumps" to avoid conversations about uncomfortable topics. I was really nice, and many people misread that as being gay. I was gay, I was a lesbian.

Throughout my transition, my wife has come with me to most of my therapy sessions, and during the week, we can freely talk about what we like, what's a concern, our fears, and our successes.

Most often, your spouse's concerns will fall into a few groups

1 - what will others think
2 - will she love me?
3 - will she leave me?

For you, coming out is unavoidable. You need to confront this several times a day during early transition. Whether you go "toe in the water", gradually getting more and more feminine until you are full time female, or "dive into the deep end", going for fully feminine as soon as you can arrange the logistics, there are people who have questions, who make incorrect assumptions, or just have some fears. With practice, you get really good at the "elevator speech", explaining that you have always been more girl than boy, and finally decided to transition so you could be yourself. You need to manage these same issues with her friends and family. They may joke, but if you can realize that their humor is their way of dealing with fear, you can show compassion for that fear and let them ask their questions and eliminate most of those fears. Once they get past the initial shock, they will probably like Carri better than they liked the boy. Make sure that you are more likable as well. Being nicer, more patient, and supportive are all things women naturally tend to do. Being argumentative, angry, and violent are male traits. People who see you expressing the best parts of being a woman, and yet also showing courage, integrity, honesty, authenticity, and emotional strength are going to see your change as something wonderful.

Make sure that you tell your wife how beautiful she is, how much you love her, WHY you love her, thank her for every wonderful thing she does for you, and listen to her requests like they are her ways of saying "this is how I want you to say 'I love you'". It might be doing some chores she hates, going shopping with her and letting her pick out clothes for you, or letting her coach you. She needs to know that even though you may not be able to have an erection, you desire to have her in your life is not waning. You may also need to explore new forms of intimacy together. Let her guide you in what she wants to explore. Lee (my wife) has come up with some ideas that scared the dickens out of me at first, but turned out to be wonderful for both of us. Of course now, we can both have dozens of orgasms, and we have a better sex life without the teeny weeny peeny than with. More importantly, we have found new ways to express intimacy - a kiss on the neck, a scratch along the bra line, or just cuddling up with her holding me, can be wonderful experiences for both of us. She also likes being in charge of it, and loves that she doesn't have to worry about bruising my fragile male ego. As a result, she has caused wonderful things in both our lives, including wonderful vacations, even buying a beautiful house.

The fear that you might leave comes from the mistaken assumption that now that you are becoming more of a woman, you might want a man. Men will be nicer to you. They will hold the doors, they will move your chair, they will help you with your bags. But at the same time, even though this may make them a bit more attractive, you fell in love with you wife for a lot of reasons, and she fell in love with you for a lot of reasons. The one concern she might have is whether she wants to not have the ability to have a man. Lee and I addressed that by figuring out what she wanted in a man and looking for ways to provide that, whether it was hiring a handy-man or new toys in the bedroom. I tell Lee "honey, your are more than man enough, AND more than woman enough, for me". Now we can check out guys in the restaurant together and both get a kick out it, because we know we are going home together. At the same time, she knows that if I'm checking out a girl in a pretty dress, I'm checking out the dress and wishing I could look that good in it.

[carri]

Hello everyone, I want to thank all of you for the continued input, but as my fiancee and I have been reading the responses together I realized that I needed to bring a little more clarity to my situation and current plans for transition.

I know that I never made reference to how far that I was going to transition, currently I do not plan on going full time, as it has been said many times before around the forum, I will transition as much as I need to for myself. My current plan of action is to of course continue going to therapy as it has been helpful for myself as well as my fiancee to ensure that the hard questions are asked, and if there isn't an answer we discuss whatever the topic may be. My fiancee is very accepting of my my feelings no matter what they are, like them or not. I just completed a good book (The transgender guide book :keys to a successful transition) that I would recommend to anyone that is in transition or like myself trying to find out to what extent the need for transition and the risks and benefits of doing so. Currently I plan on starting with hair removal on my face and getting voice lessons, as these are changes that have no life altering effects, but do aid in starting the process of my appearance starting to come more in line with how I see myself inside and if per-chance this is enough for me to be able to live my life happily then that is where it will end.. Also, we have plans on having a family together and I know that use of any hormones while not having an instantaneous affect would effectively make this an impossibility. Also in the time that we are creating our family this gives her the time that she has requested so that the can continue to learn more and accept the consequences of the decisions that we have been discussing. I know that many of you have had negative experiences with your SO's so I understand your words of caution, but there are others of you that have had quite the opposite, and as with each one of us our situations are different and therefor the outcome will be different. I look to the future with a positive attitude.

I know that there are those of you that will have negative things to say, please unless it has a constructive point keep your negativity to yourself, I am here for support on my journey, not for all your negativity. For those of you who think I'm not "trans enough" because I dont currently want to go with a full transition. I know that I am going to make the best decision for me, as with the levels of GD the actions(need to transition) will vary with each of us and our personal needs. I am aware that how far I need/want to go can change based on further exploration(they have from the time I gained initial acceptance of myself), but to take steps further than what I have planned will take more time for consideration as anything more will more than likely changes the lives of those around me and not just me.

I hope this can help clarify my situation and the plans I have moving forward on my journey, again please keep the negative comments to yourself.

[Ann Louise]

I suggest getting everyone out of your counseling sessions except you and your counselor. This is more important than your wife is. This is your life at stake. Work with her in earnest once you've learned what's up with you. Yes hun, HRT "made me" a different person, and the change is profound. That's why I transitioned ☺

[carri]

In what aspects do you consider it to have made you a different person? I know it may sound like a dumb question but I want to make sure we're on the same page, I know that for most of the accounts dealing with changes, it was in a sense very calming over all. In my mind when I say different person, I mean that the core of who I really am is intact and unchanged, IE: attractions( I understand some people said they felt freer to explore emotions regarding sexual attraction,but it comes down to what was there from the start) values,beliefs ect.

[Aprilrain]

Carri, if you have no intentions of going full time and you want to get married and have kids the au natural way why are you so fixated on HRT? (I already know the answer, the question is do you?)

If you are transsexual, you will not be able to control the outcome. You are opening Pandora's jar, but like poor Pandora you really do not have a choice in the matter so go ahead, unscrew that lid...

[becky77]

If your not planning on going fulltime, then your not exactly transitioning, im not sure what it is you are doing? If you plan to have a family then you are sensible not to start hormones, going by what you say your not ready for them anyway. I would recommend a lot more therapy before you make any major decisions, it sounds like you have two different futures in mind.

Transition and hormones change you and you only realise that when you have done it, I said all the things you have said and changed none the less. If your not prepared for that change then why progress? To transition is to change.
Inside I haven't changed a great deal, but almost no one knew that person inside, so to everyone else it a massive change. I'm more confident, relaxed and sociable as I feel better in my own skin, they are all big changes. My softer side comes out now, rather than hiding behind sarcasm or trying not to show emotion. Also, since hormones my sex drive changed completely and I now prefer men, I would have sworn to you before that would never happen, as I was SURE I knew my mind.

It appears to me you seek advise but only want to hear what you want to hear, which I get but it can be a form of delusion, one you don't even realise you are doing. You can't just read the good stuff and dismiss the bad as negativity.

The starting a family bit is a warning bell to me, I worry that you want to bring children into the world to what, a father? Mother? Two Mums? Secrets? What happens after you have children, do you then pursue hormones and risk destroying that family? I don't know and maybe you do, all I ask is that you really think ahead to where it is all going. It's not fair to start a family if you are so very confused in where you are going and if your relationship can survive.
It may work just fine for you, you find your place in the world and successfully raise children together. It's hard for me personally to understand, merely because It's so very different to my experience.

My question to you is, why do you seek transition? It should be because you have to change and yet you are so against change, therefore is transition right for you.
I go back to what I said above, explore more through therapy.

[Rianna Humble]

I know that there are those of you that will have negative things to say, please unless it has a constructive point keep your negativity to yourself, I am here for support on my journey, not for all your negativity.

By your own words, you prove that you are not here for support for your journey - you just want cheerleaders.

It is not a question of whether you are trans enough. No-one who was offering true support has suggested that it was.

You came here asking for advice whilst suggesting that your "transition" was going to be a small amount of cross-dressing. No female identity, no hormones, presenting male to the outside world, wanting to father children.

It is no wonder that those seeking to offer real support questioned what you were actually proposing to do.

Even after you added a micron of additional information, those who have personal experience of trying something similar shared some of the pitfalls and you dismiss them as "negativity".

If all you want is cheerleaders, you can find plenty at an American Football game.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Good luck Cari. I mean that... did you notice that i'll be the 4th one in a row to ignore your advice... that's because we know what happens...its TS forum...we have been through this exact scenario many times...we react because we have lived it and we have seen it so many times with others.
Feel free to pooh pooh what you call negative comments (i call them pragmatic and realistic, and fearlessly supportive..we get alot of crap for being truthful about our experience), i'm sorry they are inconvenient

Be careful about what you call support.. right now you have the luxury of only "believing" the positive comments..If you are truly transsexual and you funnel your information all into what you want to hear its very likely that when it hits you it will hit you very hard.. because then you'll know what you've done...Feeling trapped by yourself is very often a part of extreme gender dysphoria..

In fact, if you are truly transsexual and you funnel your information all into what you want to hear its very likely that when/if it hits you it will hit you very hard.. because then you'll know what you've done.
You will realize that all this planning was what mitigated your GD, your core identity has hope for the future..it will be better...your face will clear, your skin may get soft, you'll cry at movies more, you'll present better and better..
then what??

I wish it was different. Remember My Husband Betty? He's not the man i married?? Those were the guidebooks for marriage and cd'ing...Betty transitioned.

It's good to stay positive but it does not come down to values, beliefs, and actions when you suffer extreme gender dysphoria.. those are cis-luxuries..
at the point of extreme GD, values, beliefs and desire to follow through on promised actions become nothing but fuel for more distress...it feels like a trap.. it feels like you are not alive..its a horrible feeling
this is one way to describe the feeling that drives adult transitioners.

The final principle i stood on was akin to survival..i had alot of principles and values, i am extremely smart and competent and had alot of success and was well known and well loved, i coached and led alot of people, i did alot of good for alot of people especially my family, and i had it all under control until the moment i didnt...life melted.....being a functional human being became impossible.

I know that many of the posters would say the same thing

...i'd also add that altho i'm no longer married my ex is my best friend, my children are wonderful but we did go through 5 years of hell to get here...it was really hard but staying hopeful was a great boon to me and my family
So a positive outcome can be a reality no matter your path but you are well served to understand what you are really getting into and not well served to ignore the reality of the situation or you make a positive outcome less likely
being positive is good, being realistic is better

[LeaP]

It's probably worth throwing in the definition of gender dysphoria here. And that is that it involves clinically significant impairment. In short, it destroys your work life, your personal life, your ability to think and concentrate, your relationships, and wreaks havoc on your psyche. It's not something you contain by way of rational planning and careful approach. In fact, it is not containable.

I don't buy into the spectrum notion. One is either cross-sex identified or not. That doesn't mean that gender-related distress is confined to the cross sex identified. And gender distress, unlike gender identity, IS a sliding scale, ranging from quite mild to quite serious (impairment). One combination of identity and distress is male identity coupled with moderate cross-gender expression pressure. The need for expression extends beyond the closet but not to full-time presentation (much less hormones or transition) and the desire for and otherwise normal male life. The result is moderate to intense cross-dressing.

The person who is not cross sex identified and whose distress rises to levels of serious impairment is rare. Transition can be just as valid for those few as for the cross sex identified transsexual. That leaves two directionally correct possibilities. The first is that you actually are transsexual (I'm not going to quibble over the term here) and exhibiting a few of the symptoms – common symptoms – of those in the early stages of breaking dawn. The responses from the TS members consist mostly of warnings against this possibility because of your protests. The vehemence and nature of your protests, however, suggest the second possibility more strongly, which is that you are a guy with strong cross-dressing needs. If so, more power to you. (A nod here to the citation of Betty, however.)

Despite the noise on this topic WAY too frequently, none of the TS here cares whether you or anyone else is as trans or more trans than anyone else. I can assure you that none of us derive our meaning and importance in life from this forum! Should it disappear tomorrow, it will be as though it were never here at all, but for a few close friends. (For It is among and between us that the important stuff occurred.)

As a practical matter, and I know this will appeal to Kaitlyn, I quote a former manager:

The first priority is solve the problem.

The second priority is Solve The Problem.

The third priority is SOLVE THE F'IN PROBLEM!

It is no surprise at all to learn that he had little taste for theoretical digressions. They tend to get in the way of, well, solving the problem… That said, don't protest that you dislike the advice of people who have solved a very serious problem. It's not coming from theory, much less competitive BS. It's coming from brutal experience. That it may not be your problem is fine. May you be spared trying to clear a train wreck with tweezers.

[carri]

To those of you who replied to my recent update, I in large have received exactly what I was looking for as far as advice. The comment about keeping out the negativity was due in large part not to the responses that I have received, but ones that I have seen on other posts. The largest majority of what I have seen here is a community of people that want to see others make informed and educated decisions that are right for who they are. I am well aware of some of the challenges that I face going ahead with ANY type of transition. I do not consider the sharing of a negative experience as being negative, it is a Kaitlyn said “we react because we have lived it “. It would be ignorant on my part of not take the negative experiences of others as a warning of what is possible. The reason I do not currently plan on doing anything further than basic physical changes at this point (its things I would want done prior to proceeding further either way), is that I (as I’m sure others want/wanted) would like to keep my life as simple as possible, for myself my fiancée and my children. There is always talk of only transition as far as you must, and I’m fairly positive from the comments that those who have done complete transition would agree, if this is workable, it is preferable. I already know to an extent how I would like progress, this is ever changing as I have and will continue learning more about my true inner self. I know in my journey thus far, I have changed greatly as I learned and accepted myself. I only recently have truly started down this path of acceptance. I came out to my fiancée about 5 months ago which was the true beginning to my path. I still have much to learn and many difficult decisions to make. As for defining GD or any of the closely associated “conditions”, I couldn’t agree more that for serious life altering action to be taken, the condition must be the cause of things that produce consequences that are equally serious and more than likely detrimental. With that being said, I have experienced some of the issues that come with GD, at the time when I came out to my fiancée, I had made up my mind, and taken steps to push her from my life because I was so unhappy inside, the only reason that I’m at the point I am now is because I had finally admitted the truth to myself, and passed it along to her. I however was pleasantly surprised by her reaction, although at that time I only told her that I crossdressed, and that I was unsure of many things, with her personal support in learning more about myself as well at starting therapy, I have arrived where I currently am.

As to my desire to have what would be considered a “normal” life with family and kids, it is what I want, nothing more nothing less. I know that in many ways I could be considered gender-fluid, but I identify more with my female self, when I see myself in “boy-mode” I am very unhappy with what I see physically and therefor have the desire to transition to a point, what that point is, I do not know. I know that I will take the actions that I need to in order to be happy in my own skin and if that is full transition short of GRS that is what I will do. There are parts of the TS experience that I do not relate with because, I have never had an issue with my role as a PERSON neither male nor female. I think the equality that I feel is the truest type there is, in my opinion. The role you play in the world is in large part the one that you put yourself in or allow yourself to be put in for whatever reason. Also, I have never had an issue with my genitalia as many have. Also the reference to being “Trans enough” wasn’t in response to anything that I have been told personally, but it is something that I have seen, and have a major issue with. We are all people that want to live a happy life no matter what steps it takes to attain some semblance of this, I know personally that if it we possible and I could remove all these feelings I would, I don’t know of anyone that wakes up one days and says “ ya know I’m gonna see how much of a living hell I can make my life “.

I do appreciate all the advice and sharing of experiences, as I move forward towards an uncertain outcome.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Thanks for your thoughtful response Carri.
You have alot on your plate and you are well served to take in all experience and its really smart to stay open to doing that.

You are right to point out this is very early in the game. I hope your next steps are rewarding and improve your quality of life without all the problems that lots of folks face.

as to the trans enough point, it really isn't about what you and others and noted...i myself experienced it a couple times in the past, the worst being when i dared say the words "going all the way" in front of two transsexual women at conference...i literally wanted to cry after they freaked out on me, it almost ruined the entire conference i couldn't get it out of my mind..... its funny because looking back, i was going through a separation that i hoped to reconcile, i considered myself a crossdresser, i had a great job, i was starting hrt and lasering my body hair, and when on my own presenting as a woman as often as possible....my comments to those women were actually a pathetic attempt to connect with them as the transsexual woman and their rejection stung me in a way that i didn't consciously understand at the time...they were in effect telling me i wasn't trans enough to even dare ask them the question
Within a year of that time i was aiming right for the lowest point when i was realizing my fate....


LOL....i have to say as an aside i'm listening to music as i type this...
its Soundgarden's Fell on Black Days....it strikes me this is just how it went for me...How could i know that this would be my fate??? yikes!!

Whatsoever I've feared has Come to life
Whatsoever I've fought off Became my life
Just when everyday Seemed to greet me with a smile
Sunspots have faded And now I'm doing time
Now I'm doing time

'Cause I fell on Black days
I fell on Black days

Whomsoever I've cured I've sickened now
Whomsoever I've cradled I've put you down
I'm a searchlight soul they say But I can't see it in the night
I'm only faking When I get it right
'Cause I fell on
Black days
I fell on
Black days

How would I know?
That this could be my fate
How would I know?
That this could be my fate