why do women love us but men hate us? (in general)

[Nicole Erin]

I do not get it. It should be the opposite, here is why -

Why women should hate us -

First, despite women thinking we are not competition, we can be. A few times I have been with a man who tells me the woman in his life doesn't bother to do something for him that I will cause I understand how important it is for a man. Add that a TG is not going to "be late" this month after having adult fun.
When a woman puts her man in the dog house, he will find his way instead to the cat house.

Second, just because some Tg live full time as women does NOT mean we are always on their side. I would imagine most of us MTF (and all males) have been shit on by a woman BIG time at some point. I mean sure we look and act the part but when it really comes down to it, we need to remember where we came from. Society is not going to grant us TG "female privilege" on things that really count, so why should we give up "male privilege" when it really counts?

Only the younger and luckier among us look like women even with no makeup and frumping about in pajamas. So, we have to take EVERY possible measure to look pretty. They notice this, as do their boyfriends. But that is OK, their B/F or husband would never sleep with a TS, not when he has a "real" woman at home (who probably isn't meeting his bedroom needs AT ALL). We won't tell.

Why men should love us -

For men, they are expected to be confident, be who they are, etc. They look at us and see "fags" or sissies etc.. Do they not realize the nerve it takes (especially for the noobs) to live this full time? Who has balls now, bro?

If a man dates a post-op TS, he gets all the satisfaction of a GG without as much of the BS like a bothersome pregnancy. Even if said TS has NO surgeries, there are still options. We are not going to complain about what he wants us to wear or do. We UNDERSTAND his needs. His woman, despite his best efforts (emotionally and financially), has a headache or hates wearing or doing certain things. Date a TG, that crap wouldn't happen nearly as much.

Gentlemen - yes you noticed the "fag in a dress". Guess what? We are not real likely to be competition for you. Your excuse of a G/F isn't gonna want us, so why you hate on us?

Where I stand...

Straight men do notice me. Even AFTER i explain, "Look this is my story", it isn't always a problem.
I do not hate women but had a couple of them annoy me recently.
Some of you might say, "Oh Erin is not a true TS, she is just a crossdresser". I do not label myself. Call me what you like. Not here to impress other TS or Benjamin Franklin or whoever wrote those "Standards of care"

[becky77]

I have never been shit on by a woman but have by a man and have no desire for male privilege.

This is so full of stereotypes. If a guy is with his girlfriend and has taken an interest in me he can move along, I have zero interest in cheaters.

Why is there this assumption TG can satisfy a man more than a GG? If your talking pure sex then so could a hooker or GG slapper or gay man or anyone that is fixated on sex. There is more to having a healthy relationship than just sex and if that is what drives a particular man so that he "goes to the cat house" to "get away from the highly fertile, moaning headachy GF" then who wants a man like that? No me.

I tend to view women as friends not competition, there is good and bad people everywhere. It sounds to me that your issue with women is that you don't understand them yet, for someone that is living fulltime as a woman you appear to be relying on your previous mans perspective still. Until you cast that aside, if you want to cast that aside, things won't change much.
I had an auntie that was a man's woman, she always got on better with the men and just couldn't relate to other women. Other women viewed her with distrust, rightly or wrongly it's just the way it is, I think my Auntie bless her, had a lot of Testosterone lol.

[STACY B]

Hell sounds like maybe change the title ,, Don't know why it is what it is where your from but all places are different . Woman in general are more understanding than men ,, Some times ,, Men Fear you ,, They don't want to be put in the same Box as you . They want to have there manhood validated by examples of other strong men ,, But not stronger than them just the same . Woman on the other hand don't feel threatend by us like real men do . You would see a different side of women if you were a threat .

Men attack what they fear ,, Women are more nurturing an want to help the Baby Bird an Men just say put it out of it's Misery . Human nature ,, Men don't Hate you they fear you ,,, Women don't like you they feel sorry for you . An all the Sexual stuff you said is a whole different kettle of fish ,, They have Plenty of female sexual freaks out there as well as male ones that like to get down all kinds of ways . But you may have to look for Love before you look for acceptance from people ,, If they smell fear on you they will pounce an exploit it ,, That is how people work .

[Dianne S]

Wow, what a huge over-generalization!

I would say that in general, women are less uncomfortable with any sort of gender variance or sexual orientation variance than men are. I have lots of pet theories, but no data to back them up.

When it comes to transwomen in particular, I think guys can't help having a gut reaction because their first instinctive thought is "Aiiee, he chopped off his d***...."

Also, guys seem to have a much more fragile sense of self than women and seem quite upset if their masculinity is doubted. It's possibly due to evolutionary pressures... in nature, tough males tend to procreate more successfully.

[kimdl93]

Mmmm, my take on this is that those who are most unaccepting are the ones who feel most threatened. You know, the ones fear that finding TG person attractive might say something about their own sexuality.

This of course doesn't Apply to me. I don't think anyone is going to be attracted to me...gay, straight or otherwise. They might be afraid of me, which in some situations is probably just as well.

[Promethea]

Wha...whe..ho...who..wh...WHAT?

[Ann Louise]

From a dating perspective as a trans women, a fact which I feel compelled to make known known up-front to potential dates, I find that it's difficult to get past the "just friends" state with natal women, but quite less so with men who would go out with me. Qualify that by knowing that I am only referring to natal women and natal men who stick around after I have the brief "trans" discussion. Although it's stressful to have that up-front trans talk, it's much better to vet this potential dating relationship on trans issues right away. In this way I have never subjected myself to the oddities of cis women and men, and some very confusing and hurtful "...not a real woman," or "... chopped it off" statements that members of the wider population might make to my face. I long ago gave up caring what anyone says about me behind my back.

[Oh, I forgot to mention that I'd prefer to date a cute transwoman above all others, hands down ^_^ ]

[LeaP]

Erin, Erin, Erin - EVERYONE hates us! It's just a matter of degree. Some of us don't notice it much because we're too busy hating ourselves! Neither natal women nor men can understand the big chop. Strangely, the true details of SRS don't interest them. They prefer the chop image. Gives 'em a thrill, like looking at close-ups of spiders.

Regarding privilege, what gives haters a real ego boost is deigning to let us live (when they do, of course). I would think you'd be satisfied with that and shut up. And if you're not, they'll remind you they warned you.

Neither Harry nor Ben wrote the SOCs. The following wrote 'em. You will see they cleverly arranged things to confuse the Cis Folk - not one has a first name. If that looks like a clever deception, it's because it is.:

Coleman, E., Bockting, W., Botzer, M., Cohen-Kettenis, P., DeCuypere, G., Feldman, J., Fraser, L., Green, J., Knudson, G., Meyer, W. J., Monstrey, S., Adler, R. K., Brown, G. R., Devor, A. H., Ehrbar, R., Ettner, R., Eyler, E., Garofalo, R., Karasic, D. H., Lev, A. I., Mayer, G., Meyer-Bahlburg, H., Hall, B. P., Pfaefflin, F., Rachlin, K., Robinson, B., Schechter, L. S., Tangpricha, V., van Trotsenburg, M., Vitale, A., Winter, S., Whittle, S., Wylie, K. R., & Zucker, K.

I get the bit on looking pretty, I really do. But aside from the fact that trying won't work miracles in my case, I'd only go so far anyway. Wouldn't want to look like a CD, you know? A better reason for women to hate us is WHERE we compete. That is, for the quarter-rack (or less) of decent sale clothing in larger sizes, especially when the male voice suddenly booms out - "BACK OFF, IT'S MINE!"

Great topic ... so much to explore.

[Sammy777]

I have never ............... [that post up there you just read].

Firstly - Everything Becky said!

Secondly: I do not know about you [In more ways then one] but "most" of us are NOT playing girl.
To "most" of us this isn't some extended life long dream session of playing dress up.
"Most" of us, unfortunately, never get to "forget where we came from" not matter how much we may want to.

Congrats on your crystal clear insight of what makes a man tick and what's important to them in the bedroom.
"Most" of us however, don't share your insight, nor would we want to even if we could.

I personally realized a LONG time ago I never really knew how men ticked, I just thought I did.
I have about as much understanding of what makes a man tick as I do of aerospace engineering.
Oh, wait that's a bad example, I actually do know a lot about aerospace engineering. Anyways, I digress....

So by your understanding, every Bi/Lesbian girl that has ever got "shit on" by another women should automatically hate all other women? In that world there would be an awful lot of angry single Lesbians out there.

Yes, I have been hurt by women and men before. It's called life, SHIT happens, things go bad, people can be ***holes.
I may dislike the person, but I am not going to use it as an excuse to hate on their entire gender.

You have been "shit on" by a women? OH Boo Hoo, cry me a river. quit ur bitchin and MAN UP about it!
Dust yourself off and wrap yourself up nice and tight in your "male privilege" security blanket you seem to love so much.

"Most" of us never really had it, didn't know what to do with it when we did and are much happier without it!

I do not consider other women to be competition, nor do I spend my days dressing to the nines just to garner "their" wraith because "they" think I am willing to fulfill the secret lusts of "their" man that "they" can't or won't.

I will not dress like a tart or any other way simply because some guy, or girl for that matter, expects me to.
If I dress like a tart I will do it for Myself! Not to fulfill someone's wet dream fantasy of what a woman is.

[Simple rule of dating, and life, that goes for men and women: Once a cheater, always a cheater.
If you want to date someone else's SO, don't come crying to me when they turn around and cheat on you next.
Anyone that is willing to cheat on their SO at the drop of a hat to be with you will always have their wandering eye out for their next conquest and most likely are just biding their time with you until someone better comes along.]

** I am being totally honest and sincere when I say this. **
If your self image and confidence as a person is so intertwined with what you're willing to do sexually with/for men then I honestly, truly hope you can learn someday to overcome this either yourself or through professional help.

[typhoidmary]

Surely male/female privilege is something that shouldn't exist in the first place?