The difference between a CD and a TS

[PaulaQ]

... is not 2 years, contrary to the old joke!

A crossdresser is a man who likes to pretend he's a woman sometimes. A transsexual, is a woman who's been forced all her life to pretend that she is a man.

It is a subtle, but profound difference. It's subtle enough that often it is hard to tell one from the other, especially in a society that can't acknowledge that there can sometimes, rarely, be a mismatch between the gender of your mind and the sex of your body. From most cisgender people's perspectives, only the first statement is possible.

I've talked to some CDs who seem to view me as a supercharged version of themselves, someone who puts on an act that lasts forever - where I make permanent changes to my body to enhance the part I'm playing.

In fact, it is quite the opposite. I'm myself now for the first time in my life - my life as a man was a total lie. The changes to my body are to correct horrible disfigurements caused by a life lived with the wrong hormones going through my body. My life now is the most real thing I've ever experienced. My life before transition feels more like a dream, and not a pleasant one.

One of the things I'll say about transition is that if your goal is to physically change to better play a part, you are almost certainly transitioning for the wrong reason. On the other hand, if you find yourself choking on saying the phrase "I'm a man who likes to pretend he's a woman sometimes," then perhaps that is not, in fact who you are.

[Kate Simmons]

The way I see it a TS isn't crossdressing a CDer is.

[kimdl93]

True, Kate, it's not CDing for a TS person. At the same time, we are kindred spirits. That's why I favor the imagery of a transgender spectrum. In our life experience, we have share many of the same problems and similar fears, guilt and shame. We differ to the extent that some seek the temporary expression or experience of femininity, while others, myself included, lean more decidedly towards the TS and seriously contemplate a more permanent expression. Still, so much common ground exists.

[sarahcsc]

Hi everyone,

I hate terminologies, but at the same time, understand the necessity for it too.

We need to be able to label something in order to do something about it (ie. treating it, studying it etc)

Crossdressing appears to be a symptom of an underlying cause which stems from numerous biological and psychological aetiologies.

It is like an itch that we need to scratch, except some of us scratch more depending on the underlying cause.

We could roughly divide the underlying cause to two broad groups that is "gender identity related" and "non-gender identity related". Persons in the latter group would probably fit best with Klaire Larnia's description of herself. Persons in the former group would probably fit best with PaulaQ's description of herself.

But none of these are static. And by saying that, I mean to say that people aren't always sure which group they belong to and some traverse across the groups over the course of time. In other words, perceptions change.

The next important question we need to ask is:

Can we label a person by virtue of what they do?

We can probably do so for opposite extremes of the spectrum such that you won't question that a person is TS when he/she has undergone SRS and living full time as their preferred gender, but it becomes a lot more ambiguous for persons falling short of that.

It all boils down to one word, and that is "context".

Believe it or not, people who have gender identity disorder, do not share the same priorities in life. In other words, some may choose to explore and express themselves while others simply occupy their time with something which they deem more meaningful and appropriate. This differs across cultures and age groups and it is ever changing. It is probably a misguided attempt to define people based on what they do, or even arrogant.

A crossdresser is not a crossdresser without the context in which he/she crossdresses. The same applies to a TS too.

And although I think it is a necessary evil to label someone in order to access health services, labeling also carries the risk of stifling any meaningful discussion about the topic.

So coming back to the original statement, "the difference between a CD and a TS"

Is there a difference? probably yes. But it is too complex to nail it down to a sentence or two... And it is ultimately up to us to decide for ourselves.

In order to access health services, I'd take on the label of TS without thinking twice. But when explaining to friends and family, I simply say I'm Sarah.

And if they can't or won't accept that, then I'll just move on.

Love,
Sarah

[Greenie]

I think the difference, and the only difference that really matters to me, is internally.

We can try to define each other until the cows come home and regardless, people are going to be offended or think that that definition doesnt transcend. For example, the idea of not wanting to use SO or not wanting to use GG on the forum. Each person can identify whatever their heart tells them.

CD, TS, TG, PURPLE. It doesnt really matter. and the difference between a CD and a TS, there are an infinite number of differences that could occur. Just like how no other GG/SO on the board is like me, no CD is alike, nor any TS.

I think that society forces labels and boxes. I dont think you could define the difference between CD and TS, because it would matter WHICH cder and which TS, and the difference between those two people will not carry on to define any one else.

I understand the basic point is that TS feel that they were always a woman, or that they need to have their outsides match their insides. SOme CDers feel this way as well though, the clothing is a manifestation of thier personality. Etc. For them, dressing is a way to get their outsides, to match their insides, without the need for surgery or physical transformation of any substantial kind. Most CDers transform in a way that is reversible, so that they can also live and portray as "men" when they deem appropriate.

By this regards and definition that TS are trapped in the wrong body, and CDers are not. I would say that there are many CDer on this forum who present as a woman a substancial amount of the time, or wish to be able to present as a woman 100% of the time. I always get confused if the CDers who live full time as women are TS or CD.

So greenie is going to ask a peanut gallery question; I just wonder Paula based off of your first post, but others can answer: Are we trying to define TS or CD based off of the below types of questions?

Is surgery or hormones necessary to be a TS? (By a technical definition I guess?) Is this what we are alluding to as being the difference?
What about CDers who live full time as women. Are they CDers or TS? or purple or whatever.

[TinaZ]

PaulaQ - I'm happy you've offered a handful of clarifying posts, because your first one came off as dismissive to me. Actually, it was a bit offensive to me. Your follow ups have helped me understand better, so thanks for taking the time to continue this important conversation.

To put the pump on the other foot, imagine if I were to say, "Transexuals are fortunate because they are always confident of their gender. Crossdressers are the ones who struggle because their gender shifts constantly." I imagine you might react negatively to that because I'm dismissing your history, your struggle and your triumphs. As a crossdresser, your initial post swept me aside as easily.

I understand you're still incredulous, but there are days I despise the maleness I see in the mirror. There are times where I embrace it. There are times when I'm dressed that I connect so intimately with the female image I've created that I weep when I'm forced to remove it. There are times when putting on make up is a total drag (pun intended).

What I'm sure about is I have a strong "female-ness" about me, and in the same way you had suppressed it for years, I do the same now, except when it's OK not to. (I'm working on it, though; trust me!)

Fortunately, you now can live one authentic life, but unfortunately, I spend too much time feeling as though I'm living two inauthentic lives.

And to be honest, I like who I am, but I definitely do NOT lead an authentic life. I admire PaulaQ more than I can say because she does live under her terms. It's an incredibly impressive thing, and I'd guess those who live that way are in the minority.

[PaulaQ]

your first one came off as dismissive to me. Actually, it was a bit offensive to me.
...
I imagine you might react negatively to that because I'm dismissing your history, your struggle and your triumphs. As a crossdresser, your initial post swept me aside as easily.

Hey, I can appreciate how my OP sounded, and I sincerely apologize for the dismissive tone, unintentional though it was. And believe me, I take the history and experiences of the CDers here just as seriously as I do my own. Your experiences are just as valid as mine, and I know many people here are in quite a bit of personal pain because of their gender - however they choose to define it or identify it.j

I understand you're still incredulous, but there are days I despise the maleness I see in the mirror. There are times where I embrace it. There are times when I'm dressed that I connect so intimately with the female image I've created that I weep when I'm forced to remove it. There are times when putting on make up is a total drag (pun intended).

Actually I can believe you feel this way, very easily. The feelings you describe looking in the mirror are totally relatable to me. I didn't get tired of female presentation - it's who I am - but I can relate to everything else you say, Tina.

What I'm sure about is I have a strong "female-ness" about me, and in the same way you had suppressed it for years, I do the same now, except when it's OK not to. (I'm working on it, though; trust me!)

Have you considered that you might possibly be transsexual?

And to be honest, I like who I am, but I definitely do NOT lead an authentic life. I admire PaulaQ more than I can say because she does live under her terms. It's an incredibly impressive thing, and I'd guess those who live that way are in the minority.

Thanks, but I'm really no big deal. There are, unfortunately, costs to being authentic, at least in my case. I hope you are able to find a path to an authentic life for yourself, whatever that might be.

I think the difference, and the only difference that really matters to me, is internally.

I understand the basic point is that TS feel that they were always a woman, or that they need to have their outsides match their insides.

Yes, I think the key thing - and the point people missed from my OP - was that it's really a question of identity. A TS identifies as a woman, and feels the need for gender transition. A CD doesn't feel either of those things.

By this regards and definition that TS are trapped in the wrong body, and CDers are not. I would say that there are many CDer on this forum who present as a woman a substancial amount of the time, or wish to be able to present as a woman 100% of the time. I always get confused if the CDers who live full time as women are TS or CD.

I'd count them as TS - there are no-hormone, non-op TSes. My boyfriend was one. He is the most masculine person I've ever met, and he was well before he ever started T. He has lived as a man his entire life - basically since he was old enough to buy his own underwear, which he did with money from his allowance and after-school job. He started T last year - but other than dropping his already deep voice even lower, it hasn't done much else. There wasn't much else to do. Even without T, he made the Marlboro man look effeminate - no exaggeration. He knew from day one that he was a man. He never let anyone else define him as anything but a man.

I know of others, who may have gradually socially transitioned, staying longer and longer as the opposite gender until life as their birth sex simply made no sense anymore.

I know some who can't medically transition, because of health reasons.

I'd consider all such people to be TS - or at least in transition in the sense of social transition. And to me, social transition is by far the hardest. Medical transition is no walk in the park, but it should be based on the needs of the individual.

Anyway, if someone tells me they are a woman, and lives as one, or is in the process of transitioning to one, they are TS as far as I'm concerned.

[meganmartin]

Great down and dirty explanation.
But I have found that there are variations of both Ts and Cd.
There are some TS that have to continue being a crossdresser because of family, work or financial obstacles preventing them to live as they truly feel.
Then they are a few cds who think they are TS to only find out they are somewhere between them too. That is why I hate labels because sometimes the label does not tell the entire story.

[flatlander_48]

That is why I hate labels because sometimes the label does not tell the entire story.

No, you're trying to cut it too fine. If my count is accurate, I am the 22nd person to post to this thread. That probably means that there are likely 22 unique stories here. You can't bend and morph a given label and definition to fit every situation. It doesn't work like that.

If I said "car", does that tell the whole story? No, of course not. There are many elements that go into making a complete definition; some minor (like color) but some are major (body style, for example). Definitions are intended to provide gross categories; not wafer-thin nuances...

Personally, I try to keep it very simple. 3 definitions, that's all.

We are all transgender, meaning that we have crossed a boundary to present as the other gender. There is no distinction as to whether you cross the boundary once and stay, or cross and return, cross and return or the frequency of episodes. Whether you leave home or not is also irrelevant because ALL of this has to do with State of Mind.

But, at one end of this spectrum are crossdressers; people who have chosen to cross the gender boundary frequently or infrequently. I think it is irrelevant if you do it just to wear the clothes or you actually desire to emulate and be seen as a female; albeit temporarily. The reason I say that is that society will view you as something "other" than a male (unless you pass REALLY well). Further, this is where that question comes up as to women who wear men's clothes are crossdressers or not. I don't think they are crossdressers because they are not wearing men's clothes to gain a different sensation or to transcend their current situation. They are wearing men's clothes because they are usually more comfortable, more durable, more intended for a particular purpose, etc.

At the other end of the spectrum are people who have a gross mismatch between their sex as defined at birth and the gender that they feel internally. This can be a source of great pain and frustration. These people are transsexuals whether or not they transition. The analogy would be considering yourself to be gay, but also being celibate. The state of one's mind determines how one views the world, even if you are not participating in that world as a function of that perspective.

DeeAnn

[Suzie Petersen]

The confusing thing is that the TS often goes through a phase which seems to others to be the same as what the CD does.
The motivation is very different, but the actions, seen from the publics viewpoint, are similar If not identical.

Since feelings are hard to scientifically describe, some CD'ers may not understand the difference and may go through a phase where they think they are on a path to "becoming TS". Some make the mistake to pursue transition in that belief and later realize the mistake.

It is also not a black or white issue. Some are in doubt their entire life. Some know for sure early on.

- Suzie

[I Am Paula]

I considered myself a CD. Both denial, and ignorance played a part in that. CDing helped keep the GD at bay, but I still thought it was just a hobby. Like a junky, it took more and more to quiet the GD, until I went full time. Then I knew this was one big ass problem.
Yes, I was born TS, just nobody bothered to tell me that.
I got so good at playing the part of a male, that I began believing it.
I wake up every morning, and thank my lucky stars that I fixed that awful problem.

[KlaireLarnia]

A crossdresser is a man who likes to pretend he's a woman sometimes.

Sorry Paula but you are wrong. A cross dresser COULD be a man who pretends he is a woman but not always. A cross dresser is a man who wear women's clothes - nothing more.

I am a cross dresser and very open about it as I don't own more that 5 male items if clothing however I do NOT pretend to be or try and look like a woman.

This is why we have such a hard job shaking the negativity around us. Because even we cannot escape the blinkered view society has and actually re enforces it!

[LaurenS]

... if your goal is to physically change to better play a part, you are almost certainly transitioning for the wrong reason.

Thanks for that. Been thinking about "softening" and "enhancing" lately, and this puts it in perspective. Of course, I guess shaving, plucking, hair styles don't count? Not picking, just trying to figure out the borders. Would electrolysis be too much? It would be nice to have softer skin and a better figure, though. From my perspective, I don't want to transition; I like being a man, too.

[PatMatoole]

Agree with Klaire!! While i sometimes wear women's clothes, I do not pretend to be a woman. I may change some mannerisms, etc. but I am merely a man wearing "women's clothing"

So if i set up an online profile that says I am female, and I enter chat rooms etc, etc and pretend I am a woman, then I am a crossdresser, even though i NEVER wear a single piece of women's clothing???

Cross dress simply means wearing the clothing of the opposite gender.

[Krisi]

I don't think it's at all as simple as you present it. We each have our own definitions and there are many variations among them. For example, a man could be a very casual crossdresser, just wearing panties once in a while, or a very serious crossdresser, spending most of his time dressing and playing the part of a woman.

As for transsexuals, some have lived their whole lives believing they were born into the wrong body, while for others, there was an event that triggered this feeling.

[MsVal]

Female side, male side... I get it, but I don't have it.

I understand having two 'sides' to one's self. Many on this forum have described their experiences quite well. So well, in fact, that I am absolutely certain that I don't have sides. I have "me". Just me. Take it or leave it, I am me 24/7/365.

I've lived with "me" all my life but only in the past two years did I really get to know me. It was hard at first. I really didn't like me. Me was an ugly, shameful, disgusting abomination. A pervert. I was scared of me. I thought that me would ruin my marriage and my life. I would break down and cry whenever I thought of me. The more I knew about me, the less I wanted to be near me. Like Siamese twins, however, I was never able to get away from me.

A prescription medication has been quite helpful in managing the anxiety and a skilled therapist has been quite helpful in understanding me. I've come to learn that me is not all that bad. I may not yet fully embrace me, but I have reached the point where I am mostly comfortable with me. I want to know more about this person that's been hiding in plain sight all these years.

My gender is both masculine and feminine. I exhibit characteristics of both. What's changed is that I am becoming more comfortable expressing the femininity that heretofore was repressed. As I express more femininity I am finding greater contentment. Yes, there is some loss of masculine traits, mostly where they conflict with a feminine trait, but not all of them conflict.

I'll be off to see my therapist in a couple hours. It's a little frustrating that she refuses to put labels on things so I don't have a clinical term for where I am in the TG space. All I know for sure is that I am me, 24/7/365. Take it or leave it.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Lorileah]

Yay it must be Monday. Time for us to argue semantics...again.

Paula is making a point I think may be getting lost here. And it goes to the exact arguments you are making. That there IS a difference (Albeit...sometimes blurred) between the "I dress to look a part" vs "I dress to show outwardly who I am". But I had to reply to this

As for transsexuals, some have lived their whole lives believing they were born into the wrong body, while for others, there was an event that triggered this feeling.

I will vehemently disagree and will absolutely say that statement (if ever it was right in a very FEW cases) is wrong. If a TS says it was because Uncle X made them dress as children, no therapist would ever green light a transition. Transsexuals are born, not made (contrary to thousands of really bad porn stories). TSs don't wake up one morning and say "Gee I think I should be a woman". No that thought is back in the back of your mind haunting you. An event may CAUSE you to admit it, but it doesn't cause it.

And since we are arguing semantics "Believing" can be kind of wishy washy.

be·lieve
bəˈlēv/
verb
gerund or present participle: believing

1.
accept (something) as true; feel sure of the truth of. (this may be true...until you read the rest as to what accept means)

synonyms: be convinced by, trust, have confidence in, consider honest, consider truthful .

All actions taken by you about someone else But definition 2 is NOT true

2.
hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.

We don't "believe" we are we KNOW we are. If you have any questions...you need to dig deeper to find out what you really know

I like Paula's example that some think of a TSs as a step up ()or down or in another direction) of a crossdresser. Yeah we all know the joke, but this isn't something you decide to "try". It is forever, especially as you pass landmarks. like hormones...changing you identity and finally surgery. This is a "see if it fits" thing.

[UNDERDRESSER]

The pros and cons of labels. You need something to get across the message you are trying to convey, but they can be so imprecise or misleading. Working in a field where many people get terminology wrong, and we end up offering them something they don't want, I am familiar with the need to be accurate in descriptions. It can be even more important in this world, but ironically, it's harder.

There is the fact that everybody is not binary, which is where most of the terminology springs from, there is the fact that there are many aspects to the matrix , physical ( even that divides further! ) emotional, mental, orientation, the list goes on! Research continues, and "official" definitions get updated at random intervals, and at different ways in different fields and countries. Not surprising that the labels get confused and misused.

I have come to understand that I am, a CD, at least as most people would describe it, but I don't internally identify that way. My line in the sand is that I'm not trying to look like a female. I am, trying to do some, for want of a better word, "feminine" sexual displaying. I like the way females can show of their physique, a fit athletic woman is a joy to behold. So too can guys, I can find a man attractive from an aesthetic point of view, without wanting him sexually. I find hosiery and skirts particularly appealing,as they can draw attention to, and enhance, the legs, hips, and butt. ( Yes, I'm a leg and butt guy, all ways have been. ) I can't tell you how good it made me feel when my GF admitted that she was envious of my legs!

[PaulaQ]

A crossdresser is a man ... A transsexual, is a woman

Actually, this is the part I wanted to emphasize - your gender identity is what really makes the difference. If you are male identified, and you do the sorts of things that go on here on this forum, you are probably "just a crossdresser." If you are female identified, you may well be someone who will eventually transition.

Nobody really commented on that part of it though.

I wanted to apologize for a couple of things:

who likes to pretend he's a woman sometimes.

So for one thing, I should've said - "presented to some degree as a woman does some of the time." That didn't flow as well though.
For another, I don't really like that I used the word "pretend" - because it suggests that CDs are incapable of living authentic lives. I reject that premise implicitly - most of you are quite capable of leading authentic lives. It's just that most of you do not, I am very sad to say. (Feel free to blame society for that - I surely do!)

Also, I didn't want to suggest a sharp dividing line between CDs and TSs - it's anything but that, nor that these were the only two outcomes possible. Oh no, that is very far from the case.

It's just that the question "OMG - ARE YOU GOING TO TRANSITION?!?!?!?" gets asked of many members here, quite a lot.

I am a cross dresser and very open about it as I don't own more that 5 male items if clothing however I do NOT pretend to be or try and look like a woman.

Addressed earlier, although a couple of questions:
1. Why'd you pick the name Klaire here? Why not Steve? Or someone non-gendered?
2. Perhaps you aren't quite the same as most of the CDs here - possibly you are something else, such as gender queer? (Not that I really care about labels.) Or perhaps what you do is simply what is required to live authentically for you. In that case, congratulations - you've done something few here will ever do!

I don't think it's at all as simple as you present it. We each have our own definitions and there are many variations among them. For example, a man could be a very casual crossdresser, just wearing panties once in a while, or a very serious crossdresser, spending most of his time dressing and playing the part of a woman.

Oh, I don't think what I presented was simple at all. For example, the "just wearing panties once in a while, (well, OK, to be honest, it was stockings)" pretty much describes my CDing for most of my life, on the rather limited times I did it, at least up until near the bitter end. Meanwhile, there are plenty of folks on this forum who spend a lot of time en femme who'll never medically, socially, or legally transition.

Actually, the hard part about all this is believing who you really are. We are encouraged to believe in things that are physically visible, such as our genitals, and discouraged from believing ideas that seem to exist only in our own minds.

Given how subconsciously we might have buried our non-physical sense of gender, given that we are often unsure whether we are CD or TS, on a daily basis, I would say we're not even a spectrum because that is only one dimension.

But, no, there is more, there is a feeling when dressed. I don't know what it's like to feel like a woman, and now I question whether I feel like a man does, after all I'm not into abuse and violence nor fighting nor arguments, i'm not into stalking women or being a sexual predator, and yet there's a joy in chopping wood and heavy manual labour.

Oh, a great many of us bury our internal sense of gender. There are a variety of reasons we do this, but the predominate one is survival. When I was a kid, if I'd talked about this stuff, they'd have "fixed me", for sure. No thanks! I figured out pretty fast that lying was a safe bet. And it was a strategy I used heavily throughout my life - never letting anyone really know me. Until that almost killed me.

I know what it's like to feel like a woman does - because I am one. I have no idea whether or not this is the same as the experiences of any other woman, nor will I ever know for sure. Some things I've described ring true with some women I've talked with. On the other hand, there are a lifetime of experiences and socialization that they have had, that I didn't get to have. Perhaps this makes me something totally alien, neither man or woman. However, for the most part, people don't seem to react to me that way, at least until I tell them I'm trans. And for that matter, my boyfriend feels like I'm all women, as do I, so to a great extent, those are really the only two votes that ought to count. (Although if I'm honest, being accepted as a woman by others is very important to me.)

There are angry and violent women. I don't view that as the purview of men, although certainly some men have a real talent for those things. The calmness you feel is probably your own GD being mitigated by your CDing.

Anyway, again, I'm not trying to label anybody. Some of us (me included), go for very traditionally or stereotypically feminine presentations. (I refuse to apologize for this, btw - this is just me.) Some of us are CDs, some of us are GQ, some of us are androgynous, some of us are TS, there are many, many possibilities.

I just wanted to make the point that it isn't about how you present, as who you are inside - your identity. Trying to actually get to the bottom of that though is often like looking into a hall of mirrors. It's hard to know what's real, and what isn't for many of us.

[Krisi]

I misspoke yesterday. Where I said there was an event that triggered this feeling (of being transsexual), I should have said a "series of events".

[Ceera]

I would have to say it is definitely a three dimensional spectrum, with many different and not necessarily mutually exclusive states identifiable in it.

On one pair of axis, you have a scale of how much they identify as the other gender and wish to become the other gender, versus how much and how often they cross dress. On another axis is sexual orientation, and how they choose to express it. And that crosses all the groups below.

You have the crossdresser that does it for fun or to entertain, and still solidly identifies with their birth gender. A male cosplayer dressing up as an anime girl character, or an actor like Robin Williams playing the role of "Mrs. Doubtfire". They may not care if they are passing or not, or they may be quite passionately trying to appear to be the gender or role they want to present. But at the end of the day, when the makeup and wig and clothes come off, they remain their original gender.

You have the crossdressers that feel some sense of identity with the opposite gender, but still primarily identify with their birth gender. They may want to 'express their inner girl' and feel feminine (or masculine, for the FtM CD's), yet still have little desire to change who they are or to alter their bodies beyond maybe shaving or using an eppilator on their bodies, piercing ears, or, at the most extreme, getting electrolysis. Unlike the first group, a larger part of this group wants to be passing and accepted as their presentation gender. I find myself here in the spectrum. I feel I have a definite feminine side to my nature, but that my male side remains dominant. I'll even acknowledge that I've felt this way for most of my life, but suppressed it. Now I love expressing my feminine aspect, presenting as well and as believably as I am able, including trying for a feminine voice, and being accepted as female. But I seriously doubt that I would ever get my breasts enhanced or do hormone therapy, let alone seek a medical transition. Does acknowledging a feminine aspect to my mind make me "transgendered" - possibly, though I don't like using that term for myself, because I feel it is too often confused with transsexual, and I don't intend to transition.

You have transsexual individuals who feel much more in connection with the other gender than their birth gender, and feel a need to change their bodies to the other gender, either partially or completely. They feel their birth gender was 'wrong', at least to some degree, and want to correct that. I would agree with many of the others here that most of this group was born with that urge or need, even though they may have suppressed it early in their lives to fit in or survive. They may well start in the group above and later come to the conclusion that it isn't just 'for fun', but is 'who they really are'.

And then you have the drag queens (and FtM drag kings) - entertainers who are both cross dressers and often people willing to change their bodies at least in part to the other gender, and yet who usually are quite open about saying "You do realize we are guys in dresses, honey?". Often they are gay males who don't even try to alter their voices, and who definitely still consider themselves male, yet they are willing to get breast implants or go even further to present well as a female on stage. As a crossdresser in the second group above, I have a very hard time sometimes explaining to people that drag queens and cross dressers are not at all the same thing. I love watching their performances, but I wouldn't want to get on stage and present myself as a parody of a woman.

There are many reasons why we present as the opposite gender to our birth. Often we don't fully understand the need ourselves.

[Georgina]

I agree with Klaire and PatMatoole that crossdressing is merely the wearing of clothes of the opposite sex. This term seems to have been hijacked more than any other. Even though this site is headed crossdressers I believe there are few crossdressers here.

[sometimes_miss]

I agree with Klaire and PatMatoole that crossdressing is merely the wearing of clothes of the opposite sex. .

But then you have ignored whatever feelings were involved which creates the desire to wear those clothes in the first place. Often all the person knows, is that they have a very strong desire to wear clothes that mean something is different about them than others of their physical sex. And that's the defining thing; why do they want to do it. There is far too much confusion about that, mostly because of the stigma our societies place on someone adopting the behavior of the opposite sex from which they were born. And, the hardest part about it, is that such a huge percentage of people insist that there can only be one, single reason why any of us feel that way.

[Rachael Leigh]

Ive never really considered the transition part and I know I never will. I know I am a man but yes I have a feminine side to me that has to be expressed at times.
Those of you who make that very difficult decision to make the transition are very brave and I must admit I do not understand the difficulties you have encountered.
This forum has opened my eyes somewhat to what even me someone who does enjoy my fem side to you ladies who have chosen a very different path and has educated me a lot.
Thank you Paula
Leigh

[pamela7]

Paula you make such great posts, but today I am confused. Given how subconsciously we might have buried our non-physical sense of gender, given that we are often unsure whether we are CD or TS, on a daily basis, I would say we're not even a spectrum because that is only one dimension. We have sexual attractions and preferences but they only define our sexual orientation, which can be hetero, bi or homo but also shift in time, and then we have our physical bodies, mostly M or F but also GQ, and then we have our sense of self, a result of life's conditioning (nurture) as well as our nature, a long long debate. I myself have sufficient theory of the self to know how complex the landscape is, that imprinting experiences shape who we are, as do the chems in the womb during gestation. We're lost, well, I am anyway. Being open emotionally I picked up this CD/TS group field and started identifying with the full spectrum, wondering if I was all my life a closet female in a male body, albeit therefore lesbian, to then come back to myself and feel as a man in a dress.

But, no, there is more, there is a feeling when dressed. I don't know what it's like to feel like a woman, and now I question whether I feel like a man does, after all I'm not into abuse and violence nor fighting nor arguments, i'm not into stalking women or being a sexual predator, and yet there's a joy in chopping wood and heavy manual labour.

So, it's complicated.

xxx Pamela