I know sometimes you see those before someone's name (or part of their name).
I mean is it like a legal thing? Like if say a TS was still legally male but her name was printed as "Ms. Jones", like say on a court document say for jury duty or something, does it mean anything or is the title just out of respect and doesn't mean much otherwise?
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
Not So far as I can tell. These honorifics are not used in legal documents.
Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
Eleanor Roosevelt
It really depends on the jurisdiction and the local laws. I changed my name after SRS, so there was no ambiguity in my case, but no so with some friends of mine. After changing her name pre SRS, a friend received the confirmation letter from the government addressed to Mr. Mary Smith.*
*Not the actual name, but you get the idea.
I agree with Kim, that they are honorific and descriptive terms with no legal meaning. Your real name as recorded on your birth certificate or in court records when subsequently changed is what matters. Same with your gender marker whether on birth certificate or other legal documents as amended. If you are appearing in court for whatever reason, they will want your legal name and possibly gender. If for testifying or maybe jury duty, you may be able to get the other people involved (judge, attorneys, court recorders) to refer to and address you as you are presenting if your legal documents are not all up to date.
As others have said, YMMV. In the UK, if I had only changed my name to Rianna Joyce Humble, I would have been "Mr" for all legal purposes until I obtain my Gender Recognition Certificate. I renounced the sue of Mr in favour of Ms as part of the Deed of Change of Name (commonly called Deed Poll because it has straight edges), so for me, Ms is part of my legal identity.
Apparently Miss, Mrs and Miss all come from the same historical root as the female equivalent to Mr
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This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
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Interesting timing.
My name is legally Ms (deed poll), despite sending it and the forms as Ms, my driving licence came back as Miss. After waiting some time for it the title I can deal with, but am I legally bound to correct it?
I think that the authorities in this country can cope with the difference between Ms and Miss
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This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I didn't change my name by deed poll, I used the statutory declaration method and I did not have to specify Miss, Mrs or Ms. Since then I have never had any mail addressed to Mr Deborah xxxxxxxxxx, I do however get called Mrs xxxxxxxxx quite regularly - could be an age thing? nobody expects an old biddy like me to be a Miss or Ms!!
Interesting comments. I would assume that in the US, if it carried a legal attachment, that you would be able to change it on a name change. When I went in for my name change, the judge looked at me and asked if I would rather be addressed as Mr or Ms. I don't think he broke the law.
The terms Miss, Mrs and Ms all have slightly different meanings.
Generally speaking they are as follows:
Miss or Misses- Unmarried
Mrs. [US] or Mrs [UK] - Married. Was also used as "Mrs John Smith" back when you're not a person, but an accessory of who you married
Also used when one was divorced or windowed back in the day using either their first name or their husband's.
Ms [usually pronounced as "Miz"] - Undefined, used as a term when one was neither single or married or when they did not want to use Mrs or Miss. Also used when someone was/is unaware of one's martial status as it was seen as an insult to call a married woman Miss, or an unmarried one Mrs.
[Ms changed to Mrs for UK, typo]
Last edited by Sammy777; 04-04-2015 at 10:39 AM.
"Sammy, really next time do try to make your point without being quite so abrasive." -RD
Well, everyone else has explained it. So Miss, Ms, Mrs Jones, what do you think of all of that?
Married is Mrs in UK too. Ms is basically "It's none of your business if I'm married or not" But can also be someone who is no longer married.Originally Posted by Sammy777
Mx is a new title that has emerged.
Why do men get one title? There is still this lasting legacy of ownership to a man.
In my state there is a place on the name change paperwork to include all gender markers at the same time. Allowing the DMV to make the changes on their documentation also and that is all pre-surgery. So in theory one could not be TS at all and demand to use the female honorifics. At the end of the whole process the judge could refuse to accept that change without some sort of logical explanation and deny it.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. Mark Twain
Yes, that was a typo and meant to be Mrs [without the period] for the UK.
Well considering women were married off for livestock or to barter land deals or to help unite two warring countries.
Women were basically something to be sold off as needed by their fathers.
Pretty much seen as so useless that a Dowry [cash reward] was given for taking them off their father's hands. :/
[Even though a dowry was/is considered a gift to the bride it was more a gift to the husband]
This was morphed into the tradition of the Bride's father paying for the wedding.
Still to this day there are times when a couple is introduced as Mr and Mrs John Smith
Last edited by Sammy777; 04-04-2015 at 10:51 AM.
"Sammy, really next time do try to make your point without being quite so abrasive." -RD
It is very recently (last hundred and fifteen or so years) that terms derived from Mistress (the direct female equivalent of Mister) have been used to denote marital status. Prior to that Miss (short for Mistress) designated a young girl and Mrs (pronounced Missus and a corruption of Mistress) designated an adult woman. Ms (pronounced Mizz and also derived from Mistress) is an attempt to reassert a direct female equivalent of Mister.
According to extensive research Mrs did not definitively signify a married woman until around 1900.
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This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
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