Question for CDers and their SO's only, no TSs please.

[ReineD]

Reine the frasing of your questions and criteria mean most of these replies will be no.

Jane, the whole point of this thread was to get a head count of how many CDers (specifically) would transition, given the realities of transition.

I take it that everyone is posting their inner truths when they respond here.

There can be other threads to find out how CDers imagine their lives would be had they been born women, or how they might like to change their bodies a bit but still switch back and forth, or how they might like to live more androgynously. These topics were simply not a focus of this thread.

[nancigirl]

I wonder how many of the 'no' responses might change to 'yes' or 'possibly' if the question included a provision that the CDer's wife or SO would be supportive of her CD going ahead with transition. That would certainly change my 'no' (can't do it because of the feelings of my spouse) to 'yes, definitely!'

[MissTee]

I wonder how many of the 'no' responses might change to 'yes' or 'possibly' if the question included a provision that the CDer's wife or SO would be supportive of her CD going ahead with transition.

I would still say no.

[Amy R Lynn]

I've read some of the replies here. Not all of them... There are far to many.

I'm definitely an in betweener. I can honestly say that I don't know what the future holds for me. In my current circumstance, I would say no.

However, in a fairytale utopia where everyone accepted everyone else for who they are ,(I think this is what Reine was getting at) I would say yes. I would love to be me.

[Gretchen_To_Be]

Hi Reine, I'll bite.

I'd love to look more like a woman, and the progression you describe is seductive, but I am torn. I'm certain it would mean the end of my marriage, and whatever selfish and narcissistic pleasure I would derive from looking better in a dress or feeling more feminine would be more than offset by my shame and guilt over putting a great woman who deserves better through a terrible roller-coaster. Over 15 years, the passion with my wife has ebbed somewhat. Crossdressing has added needed spice in the few years since I came out, and brought us closer together in the bedroom, but that's with full sexual function. If I could no longer react to her as a man would, or satisfy her that way, I think she would leave and I wouldn't blame her. Part of me believes she would be better off with a "real" man anyway, so I am very grateful for her partial approval. I wish she would be all in, and encourage me more, but I totally understand how that would end it.

She was genuinely pleased at the increase in my libido and our improved sex life when I started dressing. It has caused her some anguish, however, because I am more romantic and passionate when some element of dressing is involved, and she now believes she is no longer the main driver of my desire. That is not entirely true, but I will admit she has basis for concern. We do have a sex life outside of dressing and we both enjoy it, but somehow I feel more romantic and closer to her when CD is a foreplay event. I think I am more on the spectrum of fetishistic dressing. It still excites me--but in my case the fetish involves her seeing me dressed, and participating, not just being dressed when I am alone. I don't know why I harbor these fantasies of approval and participation, I just do. As you have seen from some of my posts, she occasionally accommodates. And the sex is still good.

I'm not sure how my children would react, but during their impending adolescence they will have enough to deal with already, without having a dad about whose existence they would likely feel embarrassed and want to conceal. They know me as their macho, ex-military, fix-it-all, do-anything, super-strong, indestructible dad. Why rock their world for a vain attempt to better my feminine image? Maybe when they are in their late teens or young adults, I will be more open. We'll see about that.

The bottom line is, my life is no longer just about me. It's about those that depend on me. I fell in love with a girl and married her, and we have wonderful children together. I thought the CD compulsion would wane, but it hasn't. If I knew then what I know now--especially with the information resources available today--I would have likely taken a different course. I think transgender people in current times are lucky. They see and know what's possible, though 30 years from now, those of this generation will probably think the same way, when transition medicine permits flawless outcomes in most cases.

Changing gears, I'm in a very public profession where being authoritative and credible--even commanding--is a big benefit, and I am paid well for it. Don't get me wrong, there are women in my business, and they are very effective, but with a different style. Both men and women can lead and inspire, but with notable differences in approach.

I admire high profile trans people who have been successful, but in my line of work I wonder how things would go. Within a corporation, I'm sure their would be EO protection and I would keep my job. We deal with external customers, however, who decide where to spend their money, and though there would be an accepting minority, I suspect there would be a majority that would be confused or outright defensive. Being "in the middle" (and as you describe, that's how I would be...I'd look like Kristin Beck, bless her courage) would mean I would forego the advantages of either gender in my profession, and I think would make me less effective. From a crass, materialistic perspective, I fear losing my livelihood by pursuing a more female appearance and identity. If I can't earn the money I make, I can't provide for my family or maintain our lifestyle. If I transitioned, I suspect I would have a far more meager income and standard of living for all of us. They deserve better. I need to take one for the team!

In sum, if I suddenly had no obligations and were independently wealthy, I suppose all bets would be off. But I'm not, I love my family, and I like living well, so it remains a pleasant daydream. My answer is, given the realities, "NO."

As I imagine the future, I hope that my wife continues to be supportive, perhaps even more so...accepting things she hasn't like makeup or wigs, and that I can improve my feminine image further. And I want to fit into a size 10 or 12 dress

Shibumi

[ReineD]

I wonder how many of the 'no' responses might change to 'yes' or 'possibly' if the question included a provision that the CDer's wife or SO would be supportive of her CD going ahead with transition. That would certainly change my 'no' (can't do it because of the feelings of my spouse) to 'yes, definitely!'

I appreciate your thought, but you don't get it (sorry). I specifically left that out because I didn't want to get into any "what if" or imaginary scenarios. This forum is already filled with those. People do know their own lives, they do know what they have to work with, and they answered accordingly. We all live under different circumstances with different people who have different personality types. We all have choices to make based on our own personal circumstances and we all end up making choices that fit us specifically and that end up reflecting our priorities, despite what we may wish.

For example, I would love nothing more than to live in France close to my roots, near the Alps for skiing, near the influence of great art, living with people that I understand, living a way of life that I feel speaks more closely to my soul than living in a small town in the US. Do I move there? No. Why? Because I want to be close to my kids and stay in my relationship with my SO. If I was a multi-millionaire and could afford to bring my kids over to France anytime they wanted, and visit them frequently here, and if my SO could find a way to pursue his career there (which my SO would never give up ... his research is a part of him), would I then move to France? Sure! But, that's not my reality. So what's my priority then? Staying close to my kids and my SO.

This thread is not about what we wish for. This thread is about what we choose to do.

[DanaR]

..................................We all have choices to make based on our own personal circumstances and we all end up making choices that fit us specifically and that end up reflecting our priorities, despite what we may wish.............................................. .......... Why? Because I want to be close to my kids and stay in my relationship with my SO.............................

That is exactly why I wouldn't transition. I care about my family too much. I couldn't imagine any reason that would change. One of my daughters hates this part of me, but surprisingly she felt so bad for Bruce Jenner after watching Diane Sawyers interview. My wife has no problem with me dressing anytime that I want. She is taking me out next Friday for a day shopping, dinner and a show; which is something that we haven't done in quite a while. So I'll have a few days to get my hair and makeup sorted out before hand; which I have appointments for Monday.

[Jayne]

It has to be a no.
I dream of soft skin my own hair, a feminine shape and breasts but I am and always will be a man in a dress

[Sonya]

A cautious but pretty definite NO from me as well with the given criteria.

[Ellanore G.G.]

Good post. My Husband tells me when he dresses he is in a complete different frame of mind.
So it would be impossible for him to keep this up
for more than a few hours at a time .
But he did tell me that years ago he thought about getting breasts
and becoming a beautiful woman.
Like it was something he could achieve overnight.
As he got older the need/urge? to dress became less, not really sure why.

[Marcelle]

You, Zylia and Tracii are all thinking along the same lines, which is that to be read as M2F "ain't pretty". I don't see it that way at all. I think that most people are attractive, whether M2F, F2M, or cisgender in the sense that no one is "ugly" using the common definition of "ugly". I just want to clarify that a person who is misgendered as MtF trans as opposed to GG can still be attractive.

Reine,

Please don't over think my comments. I was responding to your guideline that we (CDers) would retain our age, hair pattern, body type etc., etc., and would not be (your words) "a beautiful young woman". When I used the phrase "this kid ain't pretty when dressed" it meant just that. Being misgendered in most cases (not always) is based on people's perception of beauty as it applies how a gender should look. There are plenty of "beautiful . . . yes beautiful" men who are all male and nobody would accuse them of being a "woman". However, I have heard people comment on women whose phenotype is more masculine (these are cis women BTW) and describe them as "mannish, butch, dude and tranny" . . . why because they do not match the concept of feminine beauty.

So again, I would be misgendered because I would be seen as less than feminine because to be honest . . . "the kid really ain't pretty when dressed".

[ReineD]

... and would not be (your words) "a beautiful young woman".

I can see the potential for mixed messages. I included the "beautiful" adjective because in my (older) eyes, ALL young people are beautiful. Their jawlines haven't begun to slack yet.


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<edit> - A need for precision
I've just changed the wording in the first paragraph of my OP from "complete loss of sexual functioning" to "partial to complete loss of male sexual functioning".

This post is intended for CDers, and so in my OP I did not initially think it necessary to refer to the sexual experiences of transitioned and/or post-op TSs. There are no boundaries between sections in this forum and to consider the TSs who do participate in the CD section and who may be reading this thread, I see now that I needed to be more precise with my wording and specify that I was referring strictly to male sexual functioning and not the quality of a sex life after a full transition (with or without SRS). However, it is my understanding that a full regimen of HRT combined with a full regimen of anti-androgens will effectively eliminate male sexual functioning. I base this on the posts in this forum from TSs who have mentioned what happens to their male sex organs after being on HRT.

[Lily Catherine]

I wouldn't simply because I don't feel a need to go through all that trouble; it's disproportionate to my level of gender dysphoria. Simply put, I'm a guy who enjoys cross-dressing, and it'll likely stay that way. At 95% of my time spent presenting male I see no point removing the gender markers. No 'yet', at least for the foreseeable future.

[Dana3]

The simple fact of the matter is that youthfulness and the looks that go with it are fleeting at best, even for the best of us and regardless of who we or for that matter we are? Granted with the advances of modern "medicine" there are miraculous things that can be achieved, but in the end "Time" stops for no man nor woman.

[JayeLefaye]

I'm a happily married simple CDer. No interest in altering anything except Societies conceptions-perceptions-etc...:-)

Jaye

[jennysueaz]

I have now met several transwomen at Southern Comfort, Keystone and Fantasia Fair. The transition was the correct choice for their lives and they truly seem happy. I have a loving wife who supports me in my CD activities and gos with me to all Transgender conventions. My family member know that I crossdress but the answer to transition is a big NO. I am a happy crossdresser and those whom have transitions all appear to truly happy and I support them in their new lives.

I will stay a crossdressing male who loves to hangout with other fine transgendered folks both tranwomen and transmen.

[Eryn]

I just wanted to see if there was any truth to the idea that the difference between CDers and TSs is just a question of time. Clearly, it is not.

I don't see it as all that definite. When I first joined the forum my answer would have been "Absolutely NO!" but this is no longer the case. In the intervening years I've been able to work my way through a lot of my ingrained prejudice and shame to come to the conclusion that transition might be a viable option for me despite the disadvantages Reine mentioned in her first post. In my case, and I don't think that I am an isolated data point, having the time to accept myself was definitely a factor that caused me to move along the spectrum.

Speaking of the concept of a spectrum, I think that trying to draw a dividing line between any two parts of the spectrum is ultimately, futile. Some on the CD end of the spectrum would say that I should not be allowed to post to this thread as I have made permanent alterations to my appearance. Some of the post-op transwomen whose voices have been intentionally silenced in this thread would define me as CDer since I am not full time. It's all a matter of perspective.

A lot of them just disappear, before even beginning their journeys. Did they successfully transition and are they now stealth? Or did they get cold feet and don't want to come back here to say they didn't go through with it.

Quite a few go to more TS-oriented forums. Some may not want to take what they perceive as a backwards step from living an authentic life by associating with others on the spectrum. We're an odd group that way.

Jane, the whole point of this thread was to get a head count of how many CDers (specifically) would transition, given the realities of transition.

What you are actually determining is the number, at this point in time, who think that they would transition. My opinion is that this number is less than that who might ultimately transition. Many of us came to this forum seeking information that would help us in figuring out what we are. The decision about where a person lies on the spectrum may require months or years to make.

I think it would be instructive to ask those who identify as TS to describe their own process. How many knew that they were TS all along and how many thought that they were CDers until something prompted them to move further along the spectrum?

[ReineD]

Quite a few go to more TS-oriented forums.

Are there any TS forums that have a large membership like this one? If you could send me the links, I'd like to compare the membership volume, see if I recognize anyone who left here, and also have a gander of what types of posts there are ... if it is about transitioning support and resources, or if the bulk are other things like we have in the CD section here. Because when I compare both sections in this forum "TS" vs. "CD", the TS section is significantly smaller. Also, I consider our TS section to be "TS-oriented". Do you not?

What you are actually determining is the number, at this point in time, who think that they would transition. My opinion is that this number is less than that who might ultimately transition. Many of us came to this forum seeking information that would help us in figuring out what we are.

How much less, do you think? Out of the 6 pages of mostly definite No's in this thread, do you think that half don't know who they are? Or maybe more? Also, a huge chunk of the people who answered No have already been here for some years. Yes there are a handful who are on the fence (and they have said so or their answers are not definite) but there is and has been enough information online for some years now. I think that if a person is not happy in their birth sex, they will have googled and found resources before now especially if they are older?

Last, if you had not joined here, do you think that you would not be transitioning? I don't mean to be disrespectful or flippant, but I'm taking your words literally "Many of us came to this forum seeking information that would help us in figuring out what we are". Is it the influence of others that has helped you to determine who you are and what you want? Also, which section of the forum do you think was the most helpful to you in determining what you want to do, and why? Thanks for your answer.

[Launa]

I can't believe I have skipped over this thread. I haven't read all the posts but answering the questions from the first one I would say if all of those things are in order and I don't have to take a financial hit then yes, lets get it on!

Cheers

[Eryn]

Are there any TS forums that have a large membership like this one?

No there aren't as CD.com has an attractive URL, high Google placement, and attracts lots of "questioners."

For TS people there are forums such as Susan's and Laura's, et. al. that allow discussion of topics prohibited here. They don't have the sheer numbers of members but the discussions tend to have greater depth. Forums also tend to become less important for a TS-oriented person as they are more and more out and make more face-to-face relationships.

I consider our TS section to be "TS-oriented". Do you not?

It is obviously TS-oriented. It may not meet all the needs of people on that end of the spectrum which is why they might not remain here.

Out of the 6 pages of mostly definite No's in this thread, do you think that half don't know who they are? Or maybe more? Also, a huge chunk of the people who answered No have already been here for some years. Yes there are a handful who are on the fence (and they have said so or their answers are not definite)

I don't see how any other result can be expected when the majority of people who would have answered "yes" were excluded from the thread. I'm in the middle and I was uncertain about whether it was appropriate for me to post in this thread.

but there is and has been enough information online for some years now. I think that if a person is not happy in their birth sex, they will have googled and found resources before now especially if they are older?

I would have thought that too, except that I have myself as an example. I'm "older", have been on the 'net ever since there was a 'net, yet for some reason I didn't work up the desire and courage to research my gender issues until I was 53. The "why" lies in my upbringing and society's attitude toward gender.

Last, if you had not joined here, do you think that you would not be transitioning? I don't mean to be disrespectful or flippant, but I'm taking your words literally "Many of us came to this forum seeking information that would help us in figuring out what we are". Is it the influence of others that has helped you to determine who you are and what you want? Also, which section of the forum do you think was the most helpful to you in determining what you want to do, and why? Thanks for your answer.

I'm still not sure if I will be transitioning, but I am a lot less frightened of the prospect than I was previously. Knowledge is power. Without the forum I would probably have followed a similar path but the timeline might have been different. I came to this forum mostly because of its high placement on Google and its lack of tawdry content. I did not come to the forum, read a few posts, slap myself on the forehead and say "Doh, how stupid of me, I'm TS!" Getting to the point of even considering this took a lot of study, learning of terminology, study of sociology, getting used to the concept, and unlearning past prejudices. That's what I think is behind the "3 years from CD to TS" saying. It doesn't apply to all of us or even most of us, but for some of us there is truth in the humor.

I tend to read the forum from the New Posts entry point, so I don't really pay attention to which section a particular post is in. Obviously the MTF and TS sections are where most of my visits lead, but Loved Ones and Media also have good discussions from which I have gleaned information.

Another important resource are the people I've met through the forum and the people they have in turned introduced me to. The Face-to-Face community becomes a lot more important as you move along the spectrum and start going out the door regularly.

[Taylor186]

I don't see how any other result can be expected when the majority of people who would have answered "yes" were excluded from the thread. I'm in the middle and I was uncertain about whether it was appropriate for me to post in this thread.

I don't understand your thinking here. The first post is asking a question: would you transition - yes or no? Why would you include TSs? They've obviously already said yes.


[edit] And to add to my prior answer, I wouldn't think of transitioning even if I weren't married.

[ReineD]

I don't see how any other result can be expected when the majority of people who would have answered "yes" were excluded from the thread. I'm in the middle and I was uncertain about whether it was appropriate for me to post in this thread.

Oh, well that's easy! Of course people who identify as TS want to transition (if they could), there's no need to ask! This wasn't a forum survey, the question was not "How many people in this forum want to transition", or "what percentage of the people who currently participate at cd.com want to transiton".

I wanted to isolate the people who do NOT identify as TS, who DO identify as either CD or some version of "more than CD but not quite TS".

I did this, to bring some amount of perspective to how the silent segment here, the CDers who do not normally participate in threads about wanting to be a woman, feel. Some of the more vocal people who DO want to transition, perhaps because they cannot understand people who are not like them, perhaps because they want company along their journeys, give the impression that they believe CDers don't know if they will want to transition or not until they WILL want to transition (in 2, 3, 5, or 10 years). lol. It's the very old joke, really, the one that TSs have been bantering around for ages: "What's the difference between a CD and a TS -- 2 years".

This thread disproves this. That's all.

I would have thought that too, except that I have myself as an example. I'm "older", have been on the 'net ever since there was a 'net, yet for some reason I didn't work up the desire and courage to research my gender issues until I was 53.

Ah. Well, then you and I will disagree. You think (perhaps) that most (or half? or many?) CDers will follow your path. I think you are fairly unique. It appears that, if you give the people who answered here the dignity of believing that they know themselves, they won't. Certainly, the 11-year forum statistics prove that most people who pass through these doors have not focused on transition since up until fairly recently, any question focusing on HRT and SRS was moved to the TS section. Also, of all the threads in the TS section (which account for 10% of total forum threads), how many can NOT be counted as posts from people who intend on transitioning, when so many threads were started by CDers who wanted to know how they could develop breasts while not affecting anything else.

Anyway, I wish you all the best, Eryn and the best success along your journey!

[Nefer]

That's an odd question to me, since I identify as transgender but not TS. I probably would say yes, but only eventually. My wife and I want children, but other than that I find sex fairly tedious, so that's not a deterrent for me. In truth it's mostly cultural stigmas that keep me from going that way. (Hyper conservative Christian in-laws don't help either)

[siantv2003]

Absolutely not.

My brain functions as a strange mix of the feminine and the masculine. Some days I wake up and can't get a bra and skirt on fast enough. Other days I go no farther than panties (I wear panties 24/7) to the feminine side. Just like I can't handle wearing masculine clothing all the time, I wouldn't be able to handle wearing feminine clothing all the time either. It's just who I am.

Jen

Pretty much sums it up for me

[Adelaide]

I would transition...but excluding the final pre-op. It's been my secret objectives for years. Unfortunately, my S.O. of +35 years is completely against my CDing. We have consulted therapists (separately and together) but she has never wanted to accept the result of the therapies. One therapist (having seen me dressed up) even mentioned to her that I was a beautiful woman inside/out. My S.O. walked away and banged the door...

So today, if my S.O. & family would support me, I would definitely transition (pre-op). I already have long hair (a bit longer that mid back, going to waist) and feel feminine all the time. But if they would not support me (at it's the case right now), I do not have a choice...I do not want to hurt them... but I will always hope that they will eventually change their mindset (but I sincerely doubt it).

But if supports would have been available 40 years ago (internet, group support, therapists, etc.), I would have better understood what I was feeling at the time...not being alone in what seemed "my own world" and would have transition... before getting married.