Do You Think???

[deebra]

Society is getting more liberal and """maybe""" more accepting of crossdressers. Do you think more women now than in the past would like to have a passable CD for a boyfriend/S.O. Maybe even more than just a straight testosterone filled male?? They could share girly things together including going out together as two women and when/if the need arose he could dress male and present as her male mate. Sounds like a double win/win to me but as I set here dressed head to toe female in my pumps and double D's I might be a little bias.

Then there are those fickled women that want everything their way; men had better not stray into the women's department because it is ours and ours alone. Then they say I want to wear one of your shirts and your boxers when I lounge around the house tonight and watch T.V. ( Just had to get that little funny in, Handle it ).

Let me hear from you. And yes DeeBra is short for my double D forms in my sexy, sheer bra.

[Laura912]

No matter how we think "society" is moving, there will be the non-movers who will cause a lot of angst by their behavior.

[Sara Jessica]

Sounds like a double win/win to me...

You are totally right...your POV on this is quite biased.

Society becoming more liberal from a social standpoint helps those who are transgender participate and assimilate easier than what was experienced years ago. But there is still a long way to go. At the same time, I think this also helps those SO's and partners make their own transition if they choose to do so, whether into part time or full time partners of a transgender of any species.

But I'm not seeing this as translating into a brave new world when it comes to the dating prospects as you have described. Women are generally hard wired with respect to their attraction to men who look and act like men. They don't necessarily see it as a plus to be able to share girl time with their mate, they have their own girlfriends for that sort of stuff. And the picture you paint of presenting from head to toe female in pumps and DD's is more likely to be met with an absolute lack of attraction from her POV.

Of course, YMMV and just as we are outliers in the general population, there are women out there who are outliers when it comes to putting up with transgender in their own backyard. I just dare to say they are fewer and further between.

[Kate Simmons]

I think that we think about stuff like this more than most people. They just don't go around thinking about accepting CDers or not.

[Sarah-RT]

While I would like to say yes in general I still think it's one of the bigger taboo's but because there are so few of us open about it it's not being recognised as fast as other issues

[Sarah Doepner]

It's possible the perception of Trans* people is shifting, but I'd guess for the time being it's more on the TS side of the equation than it is for crossdressers. For a very long time a male presenting as female in public was seen as doing "Drag" or "Female Impersonation", both the province of performers. Now it's probably seen more as someone following in the footsteps of Janet Mock or Kristen Beck or Bruce Jenner. Still not someone who is occasionally crossdressed but not on a path to transition or to the stage for a show.

Are people becoming more accepting? Hard question. They may just becoming accustomed to our presence without changing their attitudes, that's very possible and it could be a good step, I don't know. What we hope for is that change in attitude that comes with an informed understanding of who we are, not just a change that's beat into them by pop culture whether or not they want it. An example might be how you feel about a new form of music that becomes very popular even though you don't like it. You have no choice since it's pervasive, but you don't have to like it. I'm still not a fan of hip-hop or rap or electronica, but I'm not going to throw a fit whenever I hear it in public. My kids have provided me with a bit of training in hip-hop and electronica and I accept them better now out of my new understanding, but that wouldn't happen if I were just consistently exposed to it without the training and understanding they shared with me. That comparison may be a stretch, but I believe there are significant differences between accepting/supporting and just putting up with something because you have to.

My late wife accepted and enjoyed my feminine side, but only after she was well committed to the male side and could see there were feminine traits that she felt were a positive part of the whole package. She still wanted me to be seen as male for the rest of the family and, for that matter, everyone but my friends in the CD world. I believe Sara is correct in suggesting there is a hard-wired part of a woman's personality that wants a man who presents and behaves as a man. I don't know, but it's only fair, for we often claim that our desire to explore our feminine side is hard-wired as well, so sauce for the goose etc.

[Jenniferathome]

... Do you think more women now than in the past would like to have a passable CD for a boyfriend/S.O. ...

"Like to have"? Not a chance. Certainly more women today can accept that it "is" a thing and not some insanity, but why would a woman "want" this complication? They would not. My wife and many of the women here ACCEPT that their spouse is a cross dresser. Which is not the same as WANT.

[Sara Jessica]

Sarah made a really good point. Many SO's are faced with the decision as to acceptance, tolerance, etc. after they are already invested in their guy as a male. Not that this makes it any easier for them but it is a far cry from being "on the prowl" to find a wonderful TG for a mate.

And to segue on what Jennifer said, many women (friends, supporters, SA's, etc) who think we are terrific friends and fun to hang around with may very well draw the line when it comes to TG and their choice of mate. The phrase "not in my backyard" comes to mind.

[Beverley Sims]

Society may be getting more liberal, but give time a chance, maybe another five years before we get half way to utopia.

[sometimes_miss]

Society is getting more liberal and """maybe""" more accepting of crossdressers. Do you think more women now than in the past would like to have a passable CD for a boyfriend/S.O. Maybe even more than just a straight testosterone filled male??

No, that's just wishful thinking on your part, and we all wish for the very same thing. Unfortunately, it hasn't happened, and is unlikely to. Women are attracted to masculine traits and appearances, and are usually turned off by feminine ones in males, to the point where they simply don't want a romantic relationship with any male who she sees as feminine (and unfortunately, dressing as a girl pretty much stamps that on our foreheads). I don't see that changing in the near future. A certain amount of innate sexual attraction is genetically influenced and we won't be able to change that. What we will be able to change over time is the clothes that men and women can wear. 50 years ago wearing pink shirts was almost unheard of for men in America. Today it's commonplace. Eventually we'll be able to wear skirts and dresses without a passing thought. But it probably won't happen in my lifetime. And we won't know until it happens if it remains a sexual turn off to females.

if the need arose he could dress male and present as her male mate. Sounds like a double win/win to me

But then that's the position of the crossdresser. Not the woman. Women generally want their men all male, always strong, never weak, never feminine in any way. Look around you and you'll see this. Sure, there are exceptions, just not many of them.

Then there are those fickled women that want everything their way

That applies to everyone, not just women. We're an exception in the gender bending dept; because we know it's not the one and only thing that defines us. To the general public, gender is stamped on us at birth, and defines how they interact with others more than any other thing, which is why they get so upset when we cross the line.

Are people becoming more accepting? Hard question.

I think that there are less people who automatically want us dead or want to physically attack us because of how uncomfortable THEY feel. I suppose that's progress.

[Kristy 56]

I think that we've come a long way,but still have a very long way to go if ever to get to that point. I don't think I'll ever see it. I wouldn't mind being wrong though. Good post though.

[docrobbysherry]

I wish it were so. But, it's kind of like apples and oranges. First off, r we being more accepted or simply tolerated?

In either case, many folks will accept or tolerate all sorts of "different" people in certain social or business circumstances. But, having them as close, personal friends or dates? That's a completely different ball park!

[kimdl93]

My hope is that women and men will judge us but the content of our character rather than the way we prefer to dress. But I don't think greater societal acceptance will translate into more women being interested in passable partners. Sexual preference is wired in, just as gender identity. I would expect a normal distribution of such preferences.

[SharonDenise]

Your question warrants more space than I want to give. I feel that we are individuals with distinct personalities. Women will like us for what we are. Not all women want a manly man who played high school football (Al Bundy in Married with Children). Once we have established a relationship and want to carry it further would be the time to bring up our cross dressing self. Age may play a factor, also. As we age, having a manly man might not be that important to a woman. I'm hoping that is so because I am now close to 70 and wish to find a partner that will accept all that is me.

[Eryn]

Society may be becoming more liberal toward us, but most individuals have very definite ideas of who they want as a mate. Women want men for mates, not men that emulate women.

Most GGs, if given the option at the beginning, will likely decide to pass on a relationship with a TG person. It just isn't the vision that they had for their mate. A very few might enter into such a relationship and they are to be treasured.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree with kimdl93 that the distribution of women desiring us will stay consistent. Perhaps bi women might be the most likely group where some of them might actually want cding mates, just a guess though. One thing i find fascinating about acceptance is that in many ancient cultures all around the world tg/cding was totally accepted and over time we've been losing acceptance. I feel like now we might be in a time where like a circle humanity is coming back around and we are starting to regain acceptance however slow this may be. Bruce jenner, gay marriage, removal of US DADT etc seem to indicate this. The things that people like Isha and others on this site do in the workplace and with family/friends and outings all help pave the way and likely speed up this process. The more we are out there and people are forced to tolerate us until we become common place the sooner people will likely have the oppertunity to understand and accept us. Just my thoughts.

[Bobbi46]

There wil allways be people who cannot understand us at all but times are changing we only have to look at the gay/lesbian group a few years ago they kept themselves to themselves but now you see them everywhere, why can't we be the same? where has acceptance and prejudice got to.
It would be nice if everybody realised how more comfortable we are as a cd than before.

[Marcelle]

Hi Deebra,

I am in the same camp as most here. While society is becoming more tolerant of TG persons, this does not always equate to outright acceptance by all who seem tolerant. WRT to women seeking relationships MtF TG/CD I doubt we will see a whole change in perception but more of a status quo. Specifically, there will always be some women for whatever reason, who will find a TG/CD exciting and may pursue. Will that be just a dalliance on their part or will it lead to a long term relationship? Both are possible but that depends on the reason for the pursuit. Now before anyone gets all "women will never go for a man who dresses like a woman because they are not hardwired that way" . . . umm, just saying that I am sure long ago people said "men would never dress like women because they are not hardwired that way".

My point is, that it takes all types to make this big old world spin and while I doubt all of a sudden women will think "Hmm a TG boyfriend sounds kind of cool now that Bruce Jenner is out to the world" those who might prefer that lifestyle may feel more safe to express that in public. Will there all of a sudden be droves of women out at the single bars looking for TG/CDs not likely, it will still be the same representative number that has always been there . . . they may be just a bit more open about it.

Hugs

Isha

[Stephanie Julianna]

When I saw the title to this thread my first answer was, "As often as I can. Thinking is always a good thing." Now to answer your question. Yes these women are out there. I have met many over the years who enjoy our take on femininity. Most recently I spent a day with Tina of Jackie and Tina fame here enjoying NYC. See my threads. NYC Adventure 1 & 2. Jackie found here at a TV event. You will not find these women when you are out shopping. No one is going to approach you and risk a situation in straight public. Unfortunately, any mass enjoyment by gg's of our dressing is only a dream.

[bobbimo]

I think that since Jenner came out, there is a lot more interest in cross dressing and transgender.
Lots more stories and news reports of TG kids etc.
I think that this is starting to be viewed more as a real phenomenon, than a perversion.
Bobbi

[Sara Jessica]

But, having them as close, personal friends or dates? That's a completely different ball park!

I think I would draw the line between close personal friends and "dates". You and I both know someone well who fits the former.

Your question warrants more space than I want to give. I feel that we are individuals with distinct personalities. Women will like us for what we are. Not all women want a manly man who played high school football (Al Bundy in Married with Children). Once we have established a relationship and want to carry it further would be the time to bring up our cross dressing self. Age may play a factor, also. As we age, having a manly man might not be that important to a woman. I'm hoping that is so because I am now close to 70 and wish to find a partner that will accept all that is me.

While not all women gravitate towards the "manly man" stereotype, that doesn't take away from the fact that most women desire a "man" as a mate. Within that spectrum there are all types. But what you are describing is the age-old paradigm which many here have experienced in that a relationship is established as a male and when the coast looks clear, the TG is disclosed. By this time, she is likely disarmed in that perhaps she has fallen in love with "the man" and now has a much more difficult choice to make, whether to stick it out or bail. This differs from one of the original premises in this thread, that women in general may seek out a TG mate given the changing of times...a premise I have already voiced disagreement over.

A very few might enter into such a relationship and they are to be treasured.

While this is true, I am always careful to point out that the vast number of women who have a different response to learning their guy is TG in some manner are not to be treasured any less. I will put no fault or blame onto any women who has a hard time getting her head around this whole thing of ours.

[Georgina]

I think the problem is society only recognises two genders. It dictates those who wear dresses and skirts must have a v, and those who wear trousers/pants must have a p.( figure it out! ). Those with a v have managed to force society into accepting them in trousers as well, while those with a p haven't done the opposite. TS are easier to accept because they want or will change to a modified v. Those with a v didn't ask the p s if it was ok to wear trousers, they just did it, and forced the issue. Those with a p will have to do the same.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Women may tolerate cding from afar, but the overwhelming majority want " their man " to be a man . There is too much conflict for most women in dealing with cding when the reality hits home. My answer to your question is that acceptance strides are happening in the mainstream, but not on the home front. Those with understanding & accepting wives have no idea how fortunate they are !!! Peace, mel

[Rhanda]

Let's be a little careful about using the word liberal. I am a very conservative person and yet I believe with all my heart that we should be free to dress in any style that we find is attractive, as long as it is decent. That includes makeup and hair style.

Rhanda