Are We Too Far Over the Edge?

[Lacy PJs]

I didn't know how to title this post; I think a title should reflect the post's contents. I hope my chosen words accurately reflect what I'm trying to ask. Basically, why is it that we as a group tend to be pushing the envelope a little farther than GGs?

If you take a look at the photos posted here and those on sites like Flickr & Pinterest, you will notice that the majority of them go beyond what is usually seen in public. Heels are higher, there's more hair, make-up is heavier and the hemlines are definitely higher. I wonder if this is because we are trying to prove a point or what's behind this.

Don't misunderstand; I'm not saying that everyone fits into this category but when I looked at "crossdressers" on Pinterest, if I ruled out obvious costumes (maids, etc) and obviously long gowns (wedding, etc), I'd have to say that most of the hem lines fell at mid thigh or higher. On the one hand, there are numerous posts here about how we can better blend in or "pass," but on the other hand, we post pictures that would seem to draw additional attention to ourselves.

I'm just wondering if our pushing the envelope is actually to our disadvantage when we try to just be "part of the crowd."

Lacy PJs

[Alex!]

An excellent question!

Crossdressing seems to unfold in stages, and perhaps threaded throughout is our ideal archetype, or "what turns us on about women generally." In my experience, I went through stages, and it sounds like many follow a similar path.

1. The first closeted stage was something typically uber-feminine (but from a male perspective; that is, a distorted or stereotypical view of women), ranging from a teenager look to sissy to hooker. This was a voracious, exciting, clumsy time. Often, I made do with what I had or could acquire - expensive stuff is out of reach. This was me from age 10 to about age 17.

2. The second closeted stage is probably brought on by a desire to step up the game or to change course due to boredom, to try something new. Here, I tried new outfits and relished the diversity of looks and ideas. I was more willing to spend some scratch for stuff. My first set of boobs was acquired, for instance - no more balloons! For me this was age 24 to age 36 (I never dressed in the military - no effing way)

3. The third stage is refinement, when I started to find my "comfort zone", even an identity. At this point, stepping out and spending a bit more tend to be in order. I explored more casual looks and other things that were more likely to make me blend in if going out. For me this happened in April 2006, when I was about 37.

4. Maybe there is a stage 4 - when I really studied everyday outfits, mannerisms, voice and so forth. For me, this is both interesting and useful for enabling a full experience while going out in public, but also it represents an appreciation for the average woman. I suppose this happened for me a couple of years ago. For instance, I want to go out as a girl, but not attract undue attention. I'd love to pass as a woman, but I know this is not likely. So, I want to pass as a dignified person, one who is polite and dressed well. Who cares if I am a man in women's clothing, as long as I look good doing it

Throughout this process, though, certain things are constant or intriguing. Each person has a different set of constants, or "threads". I imagine these are the result of things we saw as young boys and men, things we found particularly attractive or erotic. Those elements carry through all the stages I mentioned above, I believe. For me, that was women of refined character. I grew up in Western European countries during the 1970s, and lots of women wore dresses and such. For instance, I recall quite vividly an attractive woman adjusting here stocking straps on a train. That event definitely appealed to me both as a heterosexual male and as a closet crossdresser! Also, I was attracted to the so-called business look, which I mostly saw on TV and film. Of course, I was a teen in the 80s, and that was just crazy makeup and fashion time - it left a mark on me.

But here's another thought: I wear jeans and shorts and men's suits all the time. When en femme, I get pleasure from wearing, feeling, and looking much differently, so I wear skirts and pumps and hosiery and all that. Indeed, my objective is to achieve a look that is dramatically different than my male self. I want to retain my essence, of course (because I like who I am), but superficially I want to remove ALL trace of maleness.

Does any of this make sense? I just sort of barfed it out

[pamela7]

Hi LacyPJ's,

There's a difference between home-closet-dressing and going out. Then there are CD party events where blending is not part of the game. Then there's blending.

I see one big aspect of CD-ing as a form of "hide and seek", where really we're trying to be found out, and pushing the envelope is needed given how self-absorbed the "seekers" are. Women notice us more than men imho.

We also tend to take photos is ourselves in our more "out there" outfits, and not bother with our blend-wear.

xxx

[jenni_xx]

Yes, cd's are too far over the edge.

Which is something that is simply bound to happen. Because we have to accommodate. See a woman wearing 3 inch heels, a cd will want to wear 4 inch heels.

GG's have no envelope to push. CD's however do. We have to go one step further, make more effort, just in the hope of appearing feminine.

[Suzie Petersen]

I think a majority of the CD group aim to emulate the stereotypical ultimate woman, whatever that might mean to the individual. We go for things that are very feminine, clothes, makeup and accessories which we find to make a woman attractive.
Of course, sometimes, when the goal is to blend or "pass" or be invisible, we "dress down" and try to not stand out, but time after time you read about CD'ers who "dressed down" to go out and just blend in and yet they are still in 3" heels and skirts or dresses where by far most of the GG's in that same setting will be in jeans and flats.

So to answer your question, I think it is definitely to our disadvantage, if the goal is to not be noticed. But if the goal is to feel good and express a sense of style and femininity, then it might be better to not expect to be invisible and just aim for that "wow" effect instead!

I dont mind so much if people notice, if the reaction is along the lines of "I think that was a guy!! Wow he looked gorgeous!".

- Suzie

[RachelsMantra]

I think Alex! is right that this often comes in stages. When I first started buying clothes online I would only buy skimpy skin-tight cocktail dresses. This was mainly because when I first started I never dreamed of going out in public. It was a private, sexual thing and I just loved feeling sexy in tight, short dresses and huge heels. But now that I'm older and more experienced with CDing I now have a very definite desire to acquire a "normal" GG wardrobe so that I can go out in public and not stand out. Im sure I will always stand out to some extent due to my broad shoulders and muscular build but I can't help that. What I can help is looking like I've made some effort to develop a fashion sense that is multipurpose and compatible with just going to the grocery store or walking my dog around the block as opposed to going out to the clubs.

[natcrys]

Let me start that whenever I've seen crossdressers outside on the streets, walking through the shopping malls and eating in restaurants.. I've never seen them dressed in an over-the-top fashion (now.. CD-parties.. that's something else!)

Considering that when looking at any crowd or group.. most of them are going to be dressed according to some sort of standard/average. I am from a technical scientific engineering background.. and most of the guys (and couple of girls) at my workplace dress very casually.

Any type of formal wear... suit.. tie.. shoes of the non-sneaker variety... and you will stand out. And yes.. anyone dressed like I would in Tassia-mode would also stand out.

However, if I look at another group of my friends (mostly female and fashion conscious).. most of my outfits would definitely not stand out. Lots of women with 4 inch heels.. and make-up that consists of more than just a bit of lip-gloss. It just depends on which group you're comparing the outfits/make-up/mannerisms/etc. to.

Now, I'm a crossdresser with a love for short skirts/dresses and high heels and make-up. No denying that!

Sure, sometimes I like to blend in (like for a trip to the museum).. and thus I will go for a jeans/top/boots outfit. But most times, I don't necessarily want to be "part of the crowd".

I want to dress in a way that makes me feel feminine and in some cities/villages/countries.. that will probably make me stand out a bit.

^{Granted, that full leather outfit I posted today.. that's not something you see anywhere these days.}

[Erica Marie]

If others tgs are anything like myself. In my earlier stages I also wore the tighter, shorter outfits. I took multiple pictures and posted them looking for others objective remarks. As I try to refine my female appearance and attempt to blend in as much as possible, the camera gets set aside and I just want to be myself. Maybe that is why all the postings you see are as you described.

[Dianne S]

I used to dress like that because it was exciting. Nowadays, I'm as likely to be in jeans and t-shirt as in a dress (I'm living as a woman 24x7).

Maybe it's because women get the "sexy dresses and fancy shoes" phase out of their systems as girls or adolescents (assuming they even ever have an interest in it), whereas we CDers experience it later in life. Also, most CDers want to dress definitively feminine rather than androgynously so they go for the extremes.

[S. Lisa Smith]

Alex! you are spot on!!!!!!

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno, I'm not trying to "prove" anything, just have fun with it. The condition is there, so why not make it work for me I figure.

[franlee]

Alex! you are spot on!!!!!!

That is a well written and straight forward explanation, I agree.

[Lori Kurtz]

When I was actively dressing up, I'll be the first to admit, I was a pretty trashy-looking woman. High heels, short skirts or very tight pants, tight tops to show off what I had to offer. I didn't go out all that much, but when I did, I delighted in being noticed--from a distance, and usually at night. And I always had an escape route readily available. Now, more than three decades later, I could never could get away with that kind of a look. Either I'd be read instantly, or I'd look like a pretty pathetic old lady trying to look hot. So now I content myself with memories and fantasies.

[kimdl93]

I'm not a big fan of the collective we. Nor do I think that a survey based on picture posts is necessarily representative of the whole. It may be that frequent picture posters are somewhat more inclined towards provocative style than those who do not post pics of themselves.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Some of us dress in a certain way, whatever it may be, because it tickles our own personal fancy. GGs (usually) don't do that, they dress to the dictates of current fashion,what others expect of them, and practicality. It is not really surprising that (most) GGs and (some) TVs dress differently, because we wear what we wear for different reasons.

[Erika Lyne]

Hi Lacy,

I was thinking the same thing recently. I'm fairly new to the site, less than a year, but I tend to dress more conservatively than most of the pics here. Now, that is NOT a criticism by any means. However, in viewing the pics and thinking a similar thought I came to a similar conclusion as Alex!'s beautiful, self proclaimed "barf" reply, with one major exception. I think she may have grazed upon what I was thinking and observing. Many of the people here who CD tend to do so in the genre of clothing that was fashionable for the young teen girls at the time of their own puberty; 60's or 80's super short skirts, 70's busy prints and synthetic fabrics and the BIG hair and heavy makeup of the late 80's, rompers in the 80's and again in the 90's (& again now) as a few examples. Ok, so we get that. We tend to try to emulate each of our own "woman on the train adjusting her stocking straps." During puberty we were very impressionable and these images and ideal did just that, formed an impression on us. Now, "Why do women our own ages not dress like this any more?" is a big question. I think the answer here is that the women have moved on emotionally. "Been there, done that, got the t-shirt to prove it." mentality may have set in. Besides, women tend to wear more comfortable clothing in their day-to-day lives. For example, black leggings are everywhere, why? Because black goes with everything and the leggings are incredibly comfortable. If you've ever worn heels all day for a few days straight, it tends to wear on you. I do enjoy my heels but I get it that flats are a good change for comfort's sake. The difference is, I HAVE TO wear flat shoes in guy-mode EVERY STINKING day, no options. So, when I get the option in girl-mode to wear heels, you KNOW that I am going to do it. My only difference is that I've "out grown" the 6" heels (except one really cute pair) & choose heels in the 3-4" range. Ok, why so high? Many women tend to aim for the 2-3" range. Well, I try to emulate the image. Applying scale to the picture, a 2-3" heel looks a helluva lot taller on a 5'2" woman than a 5'10" CDer. Therefore, the longer leg and larger size 11-12 foot looks quite similar in 4" vs a size 6-7 foot in a 3" heel.

Ok, now to MY skirts and dresses. Again, I tend to dress more conservatively and I like the hem line to be above the knee but below the finger tip. I do have a few playful extra short skirts but they tend to stay away, more as a momento of younger days, "Been there, done that, got the micro skirt to prove it." My next issue with dresses in particular is that my torso is a bit long, even for a man my height. This causes hem lines to fall a lot higher than the manufacturer intended. They just seem shorter because the waist line ends up higher than it was supposed to be. (Look, a sheath dress shouldn't look like it has a princess waist line.)

We as part time, closeted or partially out CDers may not have grown out of the mini skirts like our cis-female counterparts have because we were not allowed to find our comfort zone during our impressionable years. I have a daughter who is now exploring her own image and honestly, I've shown her a few "over the top" Drag Queens and say that she is starting to dress like these guys. (Using the theatrical Drag Queen as my reference. These performers deliberately try NOT to blend but rather hyper exagerate a feminine trait. And again, not a criticism to any Drag Queens but women do not dress like they are going on stage daily.)

That's my barf.

Hugs,
-E

[ErikaS]

Cheer/ Thanks Erika very inspiring at least for me.

Hugs
Erika

[NicoleScott]

I agree with Kim about the collective we. We are individuals with different drives, styles, tastes, preferences, objectives, etc. So there is no standard, no right or wrong way to crossdress.
To answer the question, no. I love over-the-top everything. The over-the-topper, the better. I am just the right amount of over the top (over the edge, as the OP described it) as I want to be.

[OCCarly]

At 5 foot 7.5? I wear five inch heels so I can know what it feels like to be six feet tall!

[docrobbysherry]

I agree with, Kim. Speak for yourself, Alex and everyone else. As will I.

There r TS's and CD's. I'm a CD. I don't enjoy going out in vanilla land dressed or dressing to blend. (Which I put it in the same category as scrubbing our hardwood floors.).

I usually dress at home just for me. But, if it's an event? I want to pick an outfit/costume that looks good. Maybe sexy or even hot! I don't but Sherry likes to be noticed!
It's like Kate says. I dress to have fun!

I dunno, I'm not trying to "prove" anything, just have fun with it. The condition is there, so why not make it work for me I figure.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

I must be one of the oddballs here. Even in my 20s I didn't go for a super sexy, over the top look. I much preferred sophisticated style, which wasn't easy on no budget. I owned only one mini skirt that I think I only wore out twice. The rest was elegant dresses or casual wear. Even today my tastes run more along the lines of Ann Taylor. But to each her own. I do agree with the sentiment that we dress to emulate the style we are most attracted to.

[Teresa]

Lacy,
Your comments about being OTT are more valid today, so many women dress casual but in trousers, with low heels,wedges or flats .
People from my generation have seen the changes and dressing smart then meant a nice skirt and blouse, or catching the tail end of the sixties mini skirts/dresses and much more colour . Fitting in or blending then meant some really pretty outfits ! Fashion today caters for the modern women but sometimes I feel it's letting women down , they follow the trend more than men and at the moment the feminine look has gone compared with a few short years ago .To copy some outfits today almost suggests we stay in drab mode !

[ReineD]

To the OP, I just went on Pinterest and you are correct! Lots of short skirts, leg shots, tight clothes, bigger hair, more makeup ...

Maybe it's because women get the "sexy dresses and fancy shoes" phase out of their systems as girls or adolescents (assuming they even ever have an interest in it), whereas we CDers experience it later in life.

It's true that you'll generally find shorter dresses and higher heels on younger women than, say, (ahem) women my age. lol.

There's a reason for this. Younger women are looking for mates!! We know how to dress in order to attract males. The biggest complaint among husbands is, their wives don't make themselves up like they used to. But do younger women, who are going out where there are NO males (absolutely none), dress like this? No! They'll wear their jeans and Tshirts.

I just don't believe that CDers have the same motive for dressing as GGs do, unless they're wanting men to be attracted to them? As Seinfeld said, "there's nothing wrong with that!". But then they shouldn't tell themselves they are straight ... unless of course the thrill is in being admired as a woman while at the same time having no attraction to the male? Confusing, because they don't dress that way to attract women.

Sherry, my SO is not TS either but she dresses to blend, albeit in a more fashionable manner than most of the women in our area ... except when we go to our TG group meetings. Then my SO will wear the shorter things with higher heels and I know that she is not interested in attracting the other CDs/TSs there. Very confusing.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

Fashion today caters for the modern women but sometimes I feel it's letting women down , they follow the trend more than men and at the moment the feminine look has gone compared with a few short years ago .To copy some outfits today almost suggests we stay in drab mode !

I have to disagree somewhat Teresa. It may be different in the UK, but I still see plenty of young women, especially college-age, that know how to put together a great style. Often it is a reflection of class standing (but when has that ever not been the case). What I think we are seeing with the widening income gap is an increase in the proportion of women who just don't have the resources to put much style into their appearance.

[Marcelle]

Hi Lacy,

I am inclined to agree with most here that for some "dressing" comes in stages and as one progresses from "closet" to going out their individual style refines. That is not to say that some who are out in the public venue do not wear shorter skirts and heels but then again that is their sense of style the same as any GG who may decide to dress that way. I have never been a "sexy dresser" (not my thing) and tend to gravitate to jeans and tops with the occasional dress thrown in depending on what I am doing (e.g., meeting some of my GG friends for lunch during the work week where most will be in dresses in or skirts). However, in the end, fashion is fashion and it perception is perception irrespective if it is someone looking at an older GG or CD thinking that skirt is way too short for her someone her age or now that looks good on her.

Hugs

Isha