Transgender = Transsexual ???? Since When?

[Nadine Spirit]

I know, I know, a somewhat hated discussion around here as it has to do with labels. So if you are just going to dismiss this discussion as labels should only be used for soup cans, then slide on by to the next thread. Whether anyone wants to accept it or not, labels are being applied to us. I think we should be the ones who are actively involved in defining those labels. So anyways.....

Recently I have become aware of a trend of most media, and some around here, to refer to transsexual individuals only as transgender. While that in and of itself is not problematic, there is no distinction being made of transgender individuals who are transitioning. It is more along the lines of people beginning to reference and assume that if one is transgender then one is going to transition. I think I first noticed this in the Bruce interview. I have not seen it all, just the middle hour or so. But within it, they never said the word transsexual, that I noticed, it was just a constant reference to him being transgender. It was possibly my only concern about the interview.

My sister saw the interview and it prompted great confusion within her that I identify as transgender, but am not interested in transition. For me though it is tough as while I cross dress, most of my time is spent in a gender non-conforming presentation. That is kind of a mouthful to explain to folks who ask, it is far easier to simply say I am transgender. But then they want to know when I will transition.

So.... do you all think that the word transgender is in the process of replacing the word transsexual?

BTW... my fave graphic about this is:

tumblr_mhfbmaWtba1qizfh0o1_1280b.jpg

from: http://thegenderbook.tumblr.com/image/41848208449

[Jenniferathome]

It's the equivalent of "black" and "African American." It's the new political correctness without understanding. It just sounds nicer. By the way, my buddy from Jamaica hates "African American" because that umbrella misrepresents him!

[cheryl reeves]

transgender sounds better the transexual,its like when cross dressing replaced transvestitism. im transgender and ts but will never transition.

[Claire Cook]

Hi Nadine,

Thanks for this. i am solidly in your camp here and I want that poster on my wall!!

[Jaylyn]

Nadine that's a tough one to answer. I've never considered myself a transgendered. I just love the clothing and the accessories, such as makeup, wigs, hose , heels and the feel of all this on my body. Is this Transgendered? Sometimes I apply so much makeup I feel I'm nearer to a drag queen. One pair of my heels are too tall but I like to wear them because I feel sexier in them. Maybe this is my part of being transgendered. Is there such a thing as just a plain and simple crossdresser because we love the way a nylon dress and hose makes us feel? I think the word transsexual has way too many mis- connotations already to have to throw in transgendered also. Is getting in touch with ones female side by dressing so much different than the old saying real men don't cry. I've seen some big old burly real men shed a tear at a funeral. Are they getting in touch with their female side. I've always thought it would do both genders a favor if they had enough emotions to cry sometimes. I feel the same way about laughing.
To answer your question I feel there would be more confusion if the word transgender replaced the word transsexual.

[Amelia Coffey]

Seems to me that many people have a problem with the word sex. Even on this site I have seen people
refer to gender re-assignment surgery. Wouldn't that be some sort of brain surgery?

On a soap opera my wife watches, they have a story line going on about a "transgender" issue.
Just irks me to death.

Amy

[Jorja]

It comes down to political correctness. The media thinks that by calling a transsexual, transgender, they will not offend anyone. It sounds better. What they do not understand is that today I am a woman, I was a transsexual, and before that I fell into the transgender umbrella somewhere.

For me, it doesn't matter. I transitioned at a time when these terms were just starting to be used. I haven't been either transgender nor transsexual for a very, very long time. Guess what? I am still a woman just like any other. Just don't call me late for dinner!

[sherri]

On a soap opera my wife watches, they have a story line going on about a "transgender" issue.
Just irks me to death.

Amy

Imho, transgender is an umbrella term referencing anyone who blurs conventional gender ID or boundaries, in whatever way or degree. That includes crossdressers as well as transsexuals. To me, however, the term is more apropos for someone who genuinely identifies as fem (in the case of mtf) in some way as opposed to the occasional fetishist. So guess what sweetie, if you identify and express as fem at all, you are transgender. 'Course, you don't have to use the term if you don't want to. After all, it's your dysphoria.

[mykell]

nadine i have recently attended some pflag meetings, they have a TG support nite,
at my first meeting after introductions we went around the group and spoke, i asked that question, i exclaimed that here we even have the TS section on our forum, one of the meeting hosts is TS and explained that that term is almost on the verge of derogatory and transgender is the modern and preferred term, a few other comments were made but i felt like i had insulted some there.....started a thread here the next day i believe....


i did return dressed at the next monthly meeting, a first for me and was made to feel comfortable and at this meeting mingled and talked with some members afterwards....

so ive accepted the term for myself since joining here, dont really mind all the attention about "ms. jenner" and feel its bringing some due positive attention to the subject and dont really dwell on the transition thing.....i feel some here may find that it will be theyre endgame in the future.....like its been said you never know how far we find we will need to go to accept things.....for now im happy just being me....

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Your post is well thought out.
I realize i don't speak for anybody but myself but here is my perspective as a transsexual
i know that the "world" will do what it does and people will say what they will say but i am not transgendered...im a transsexual woman...i can be more politically correct and say I'm just a woman....

although i have lots of cd/tg friends and i support them totally, i am not one of them...

we can also talk about the gender binary... one way to think of transsexuals is that we exist in that binary... tg people do not...thats a pretty big difference...
and because we feel like just a woman, we try to exist inside that binary...tg people exist outside of it... i'm all for the umbrella, but as a transitioned woman i don't consider myself in it..

even transsexuals that are totally out exist inside the binary...they are just women with a past that is not typical of other women..

just my own perspective..

its an important thing to me... there is stigma for me to be thought of or considered to be a man in any way shape or form..i find that as a transsexual i am often marginalized, disbelieved and dehumanized....one way that happens in a subtle way is to try to label me as something that i am not..
that i am somehow doing this as a man pretending to be or emulating a woman..its a way of disbelieving my entire existence ...that's how deep it goes...

it may go that deep for everybody cds and GQ etc etc...i can't say but in that case i'd think you all would not want to be lumped in with a bunch of crazy women that screwed over their whole life to live authentically..

[LucyNewport]

Again, I think it comes down to the fact that folks who transition are, by necessity, the most visible members of the tribe. Cross Dressers, Bi Genders etc at least have the option of blending into the crowd. If you change all your legal markers, come out to everyone, and do this 24/7 that is usually not going to be an option. If we want a more nuanced discussion of what transgender is or can be we need to make it happen.

Also, the media always boils things down into its simplest form. Complexity doesn't sell. You can't get more black and white than "X was a boy, now X is a girl" so that is what you will see. Pushing boundaries and the wholesale redefining of gender categories makes people more uncomfortable than any given person changing teams.

[emma5410]

As a transsexual I do not like to be called transgender. I am a woman and living as one does not mean that I have crossed any gender lines. I was always on the female side of the line. The difference now is that my body and appearance are more in line with my gender.

I agree with what you are saying though. The media seems to have adopted transgender as another term for transsexual. Not good news for all those who have no intention of transitioning and want to stay in relationships.

[Isabella Ross]

With all due respect to Jaylyn, any man who has a powerful urge to wear women's clothes and feel feminine is transgendered, which I believe is what you're saying, Nadine. If those who go on to transition prefer to be called transsexual, so be it. But I think the larger issue is the net result of the media's careless labeling of transsexual people as transgender -- and that is the great unwashed masses just follow suit without thinking and assume that, if I'm transgendered, I must have transitioned or, like Bruce Jenner, be contemplating it, or in the process. And of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Disturbing.

[Lori Kurtz]

Unfortunately, it seems that this is really a matter of personal taste and preference. Nobody has the authority, like a king, or shall we say, a queen, to say this terminology is right or this terminology is wrong. The best we can do is respect each other's feelings while trying to be clear about what we mean when we use whatever words we use.

[ShayLeigh Dominique]

Transsexual is not the same as transgender.

My reasoning:
Trans means across, or to cross
therefore:
"trans"gender crosses the gender boundary (CD and TV fall here as do all who dance on the line between gendermale and genderfemale)
AND
"trans"sexual crosses the sex designation boundary (to the best that modern science and medicine can accomplish today). Those who actually proceed on the transition would be categorized here.

Now, that being said... I personally think that dichotomies in general are too limited and limiting. Where does the individual who transitions to a mid-point and then says "Ok, I'm fine here"? Is she (or he, in the case of transmen) transgender, or transsexual? By giving up the gender role previously held, and taking on the sexual characteristics of the new, isn't she (he) both? And yet, not entirely either...

I'm a big fan of "trans_(fill in the blank), or "trans*".

I am not the same, nor can I relate to the plight of she who has done HRT and SRS; but aren't we both trying to become more than we were? To better experience life from a "proper" perspective?

ADDENDUM:
This thread has gotten incredibly more deep than when I last read through it... Though I stand by what I wrote before, I no longer feel qualified to truly have an opinion here.
At this point I have no idea how to qualify or classify myself.
I have never felt included in the rules that everyone else follow. I have always been exceptional, by which I mean “one who is excepted”. I was always so odd, so unique, so free thinking that I couldn't tell when “the social police” were trying to chivvy me into “proper” place.
I joined this party late (as usual), and times like this make me wish I had been more adventurous, less fearful; more assertive, less submissive; more male, less female in my youth. I think at best now I can only consider myself “androgyne” if anything; still I am neither one nor the other.
I had hoped to find information, if not outright answers here; but it seems we are all lost in the world.

I commend you all for your courage to seize your definitions where you could, creating them whole cloth where necessary. I don’t have that strength. Or if I did, it has been spent fighting my way along my own “path less travelled” because I was not included in (or couldn't find my way along) everyone else’s. I know it sounds like I’m blaming others for my own issues/mistakes/whatever, but I have spent so much of my life already blaming myself for allowing other people to affect me. Where does my responsibility stop?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I can imagine that many SO's are very concerned about this ... the more its an umbrella the more the cd must face the question..

btw...my wife asked me for many years and i denied it all along...(i thought i was being honest ...i lied to myself quite convincingly)...this complicates matters ALOT....

[Kate Simmons]

I think a lot of people are totally clueless when they are asked to consider anything but the standard binary gender definition. I personally don't focus on "what" a person is in favor of "who" they are. I myself "transitioned" quite some time ago spiritually as I amalgamated all of my feelings and qualities under one aegis, gender notwithstanding. In the end it is what it is I guess.

[Nadine Spirit]

Unfortunately, it seems that this is really a matter of personal taste and preference. Nobody has the authority, like a king, or shall we say, a queen, to say this terminology is right or this terminology is wrong. The best we can do is respect each other's feelings while trying to be clear about what we mean when we use whatever words we use.

So if I call a stapler a banana that is fine as long I prefer that? Thus you need to respect my feelings that I think a stapler should be called a banana as long as I can be clear about what I mean when I use the words. So if I call the object that joins papers together with a small folded piece of metal, a long curved cylindrical yellow thing that we peel and inside is a whitish piece of edible fruit, then you are fine with that?

Like it or not, words have definitions, regardless of we feel about them and regardless of what we mean when we use them.

And it does not take a king or queen to define them. Generally all it takes is usage among the populace.

[Pat]

I think the message to take from the replies before me is that we don't know what to call ourselves, how can we hope to tell others what term to use?

I agree Transgender is an umbrella term but language evolves without anyone's permission. All I can suggest is that we keep pointing it out TO OTHERS not just to ourselves.

I was amused to read a glossary (http://transequality.org/issues/reso...er-terminology) that says of crossdressers, "Cross-dresser: A term for people who dress in clothing traditionally or stereotypically worn by the other sex, but who generally have no intent to live full-time as the other gender. The older term "transvestite" is considered derogatory by many in the United States." My amusement stems from "...in the United States." I've always preferred the term "transvestite" and got a strong talking to by someone because I said so.

[NicoleScott]

Read all the responses and see that we, the insiders, aren't in agreement. How can we expect the outsiders to get it right?

[Pat]

So if I call a stapler a banana that is fine as long I prefer that?

C'mon Nadine, you know that's reductio ad absurdum logic. Talking shades of meaning for Transgender .vs. Transsexual when used by the general public is far removed from Stapler .vs. Banana. It's more like complaining people say stapler when they mean Swingline stapler. ("Why if you just say 'stapler' I could hand you a Bostich and be completely within my rights!")

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Ok instead of stapler and banana, lets use man and woman

i'm a woman, you are not... transsexuals are women(mtf) cross dressers and bigendered people are not..

its is not a logic problem. analogies don't do it justice its a meaning of life problem...gender is THE fundamental organizing principle of human society.
sure some people just don't care that much...that's a great way to be ...in some ways i don't care but recent events have really brought this up a notch in the general public...

"we" are not in agreement because "we" are not a "we" except in the sense that we are human beings..you as a cd are simply not an insider with regards to me as a transsexual

transsexuals embrace the gender binary...they flow into it from one binary to the next... this is felt by us at a level that must be felt to even be believed and its why so many cross dressers so casually use terms that deny our existence (not on purpose, not with malice or any ill will)...they just don't understand..

if you truly understood what i went through you would not say these things...

in the end, its very possible that there is nothing that can really be done...its true none of us are kings and queens of terms...and those terms will catch on with people or not... and some very public ts people use transgendered in the most general way.....so there is an unfortunate but pragmatic reality we must face

and those of us that live out every day without being famous will have to deal with that reality...it doesn't mean its right and if cd's understood what i am, they would give me the respect and courtesy of not mislabeling me as a transgendered or bigendered person..

[Katey888]

Nadine - it's a super piccy (and a good - if small - web site behind it...) - it nicely encapsulates for me how transgender can and should be a suitable term to gather these sometime rather disparate groupings together. We should be united in our commonalities rather than divided by our differences, even though most of us accept all our little clusters can face significantly different issues in managing our condition.

I positively like the fact that there is an umbrella term and embrace what that means - but in the same way that not all lesbians or gays like to be grouped with bisexuals (and all other combinations), there will always be some who like to believe they're somehow more exclusive. I'm liking too that more of us seem to be more comfortable with the idea that we can be under the umbrella term without the idea that we necessarily have transition in our future... It is a shame that the media can't get it right, but perhaps with more exposure and better informed commentators it can be corrected.

Again, the graphic is great, and we could probably all do worse than print out an illicit copy and use it to explain to others should the need arise... (I am in no way condoning or recommending the illegal reproduction of copyrighted images.. The Genderbook, btw, is licensed under the Creative Commons principle so can be legally used in this way. )

Let's hope the media comes around quickly... I guess we could all be activists and write to our national and local press and TV..??? Would a few hundred voices make a difference...???

Katey x

[Teresa]

Nadine,
I'm not sure if the media understand the different terms or can't be bothered to find out ! The annoying point of all this is they appear to treat the public with total ignorance, so using any of the " Trans..." terms is enough to give the readers the impression that a man who chooses to wear women's clothes comes under one umbrella !
As we all know the first questions asked are do we want to be a woman or are we gay ? The media does very little to give any further explanation to the variations that exist in our community !

When you look at it in this context we really must applaud Isha for the persistent work and belief in her own identity to bring about the changes with the Canadian Military !
An interesting item on UK tv was a feature on the first TS officer in the British Army only last week, on Friday he was a Sir and on Monday a Ma'am !
I was so surprised my wife watched it without any comment or scathing comments to me after !

[DonnaT]

It is a media thing, but they picked it up from the more outspoken trans women and activists who prefer the term transgender over the term transsexual. And since discussion of being trans has been more and more public, the media's use has become more prevalent.

Much like when the term crossdresser became preferred by many over the term transvestite.

My wife will occasionally bring it up for discussion when a story hits the air about someone being transgender and transitioning. She'll ask, "Didn't you say you are transgender?" Then I have to go into the explanation of the transgender umbrella, etc.