Is this the new Jenneration?

[Maxie]

This whole media buzz caused a very interesting day at work. As I mentioned in other posts, I work in law enforcement and have an interesting group of guys in my station. As we were going through shift change a couple guys came in laughing and looking at some pictures. Of course we wanted what was going on. One of them said that they just busted a "Jenner" working on a corner. For the rest of my shift every time someone saw a TS, CD or *******, "Jenner" was the word of the day. I asked some of them if that was necessary. The majority of them told me that anyone who has been with "the Calabasas petting zoo" deserves it.

Some of you think that the transition Bruce made will have a positive impact on the topic. Wake up.

[AletaHawk]

Will Smith's son Jaden just recently did the genderqueer thing and wore a prom gown to his high school prom. I say the closet door is not just busted down, but is in the process of being trampled by folks on their way out.

I personally think Jaden's very public genderqueer/genderfluid dressing is the much bigger deal. Because it is being treated as if it's perfectly normal. It might come off as a fashion trend, but it will likely make a lot of us feel safer when celebrities are dressing while not transitioning. Just my 2 cents though

[Lena]

that's another thing we have to get over; that old people should avoid trying to appear sexy and attractive. Why? Why should everyone's goal be to look like their grandparents did? It drives me nuts when women chop off their long beautiful hair just because 'that's how it's supposed to look at my age'. Says who? I don't see it written anywhere that you have to stop being attractive just because you get older, and for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want to aspire to that! 'Gee, I can't wait until I get old so I can look dowdy and frumpy'. Why would anyone do that to themselves? I don't get it.

I wasn't saying she shouldn't be as beautiful and sexy as she wants. (And she does look amazing. ) But to me, the magazine cover isn't only about her, it includes the reactions of the public. With that look, it prompts some responses that are derogatory or ridiculing. As much as I hate it, she is presenting an image to many who have never seen a tg or crossdresser.

And by the way, I'd give Hillary Clinton a hard time if she were posing in the same clothes/posing. I love seeing my wife in sexy lingerie too but I wouldn't want that to have been my first impression of her. And, it's just my opinion.

[jjjjohanne]

I have not been following this closely. I think the only reason this story is getting air time is because there is a show on the E! network. I believe that is why it is 'news'.
About 10 years ago, a company that makes pantyhose for men got interviewed by NPR. Then it went onto the AP network. Then it was everywhere for a few years including daytime news shows like the 'Today' show. Nothing seems to have changed. I think the Jenner transition will be similar.
The only way anything will change is if real people start doing this stuff around people they know.
With that said, useful information is getting out such as, "Bruce always had a huge secret. Caitlyn has no secrets."

[JayeLefaye]

I'm not sure I care for the "skimpy" outfit being the one on the cover, but I doubt if Caitlyn had any say in which photo went where. I'm also not sure of how long the photo shoot lasted, or how many outfits she tried on etc. Vanity Fair is trying to sell magazines, so I understand their decisions. Over-all though, I've been fairly impressed by what I've read of the interview, and wouldn't we ALL love to have Annie L as our photographer.

Look through our own photo gallery and tell me that there aren't a lot more provocative outfits there, and also count how many photos show us with minimum make-up? I won't go down the jealousy road regarding how much money she has, nor will I fault her for putting herself out there. I fall in the camp that considers anything that starts a conversation, and education, is a good thing. It's up to us, on our own individual basis to continue the educating. One person can't do it all.

I also agree that she looks pretty good for a no-longer-quite-young broad. Must have been taking care of herself over the years. Photoshop can only do so much with a body.

Jaye

[Eryn]

...I work in law enforcement and have an interesting group of guys in my station....One of them said that they just busted a "Jenner" working on a corner. For the rest of my shift every time someone saw a TS, CD or *******, "Jenner" was the word of the day. I asked some of them if that was necessary. The majority of them told me that anyone who has been with "the Calabasas petting zoo" deserves it.

I suppose that they could be considered "interesting" if you define "interesting" as "crass and bigoted."

I'm not out at my work, but I don't tolerate people demeaning others in my presence. I'm not so desperate to be "one of the guys" that I'll put up with that. Showing respect for everyone and insisting that those around me do the same has not reduced my status in the eyes of my peers at all.

Tacit institutional approval of bigoted behavior is the reason most people in the US don't trust the police. It isn't a matter of color, gender, or orientation. Any organization that thinks and act as though they are above the law and considers everyone outside their community to be mere "citizens" to be controlled is not to be trusted.

[Ellie52]

There is also a down side.
My wife who is very understanding with my dressing has questioned my desire to be a woman. I have never wanted to be a woman and have no desire to transition.
How can I convince her 100% when she sees me prancing around in a bra, panties skirt wig etc having a great time.?
The problem is the media hype has joined all CD's together whatever their reasons or future desires.
I have reassured my wife that all I enjoy is the clothes and playing a bit of dress up.
Imagine how many other wives are out there (whose husbands enjoy simple underdressing only) and are now paranoid their husband is going to become a woman. What is a bit of harmless fun, now has huge ramifications.
For this reason it may also force people back into the closet
Every good side has a down side but in the end it should be beneficial as long as these celebrities are doing it for the right reasons and it not just a money making exercise.

Ellie

[Krististeph]

... being trampled by folks on their way out.

I like that mental image!

Bruce Jenner was a bit of a hero to me in the 80s when I was a cyclist wanna-be. Caitlin is a hero to me because she is showing people that gender is not bimodal- and so publicly. I hope other folks like Steven Tyler will continue to express their comfort with femininity, but it is ultimately the media that decides how it is presented. Caitlin has helped with exposure, but there is so much more than just that.

She'll be one of my heroes, yeah, next to my brother (who probably has a problem with me being a sissy), Wolfgang Pauli, Candice Pert, Leon Lederman, Albert Einstein, Bruce Lee, etc.

She'll make mistakes, she'll be human, she'll die. But she will live as the gender she wants to live as, and all the perks and benefits along with it. I'd cycle alongside her any day, wishing I had the chance to do the things she's done. This is what celebrities are made of- and Caitlin is bringing a huge bolus of acceptance to all of us who crossdress for whatever reason.

[Claire Cook]

I just hope Caitlin's story adds to the growing awareness of TGism in our society. We've had similar threads on this, and what with Transparent, the New Girls on the Block, Jaden Smith etc., that awareness is there. And we do our own little bits to add to that. (But yes, we'll still have to deal with the bigots and "yahoos".)

As much as I admire Jenner's coming out (whatever her motives), I'm more touched by Jazz Jennings' story. That girl and her family are doing so much to further awareness and understanding. IMHO, this is the kind of PR that we need.
My .

[CarlaWestin]

Ms. Jenner and all involve stirred the profit machine exactly the way they wanted. The VF cover shots were over the top glamor shots that a lot of us would love to experience for a day of extreme makeover fun. Any heightened awareness and acceptance from the event will be minimal. I've seen the expected outcome in social media. Those who bolster their primitive integrity by debasing others have jumped right on it. As I wait for the short attention span to pass, I'm paying more attention to the everyday Caitlyn look. You know, ball cap, shorts and ponytail. I'm really glad for her finding her true center but, I've already heard too many false comparisons to military heroes and the overuse of "prancing" and "playing dressup".

[Amy Fakley]

I'll be honest, I had no idea who Bruce Jenner even was other than an oblique reference in a rap lyric that was in a song my officemate used to play ad nauseum in the early 2000's .... "Bruce Jenna, the winna, tastin' MC's for dinna ..." (I think that was a remix of Craig mack / Flava in ya ear, lol)

His Olympic career was well before my time, and though I briefly tried to later in life, I just don't give a hoot about sports really. Nor about the Kardashians ... I also didn't know who the heck they even were other than via "Kim Kardashians butt" memes on reddit and the like.

It's kind of astounding to think that a celebrity I barely knew existed a few months ago has managed to have such a profound impact on my life! But I can honestly say that she has. Her very public approach to transition has opened doors for conversation with my daughters about topics that would simply have been unapproachable otherwise.

Caitlyn has given all of us teachable moments. How those moments are taught are up to us. I'm certain, that at most diner tables in my neighborhood, if it was even talked about, the lesson was 180 degrees from the discussion of empathy, respect and tollerance that we had.

Go out, and teach the world what this means, sisters.
You don't even have to out yourself to do it.
Caitlyn can't change the world, but she can open the door for us to do so!

[Barbara Black]

I can't believe someone would call him Caitlyn/Bruce. SHE goes by Caitlyn.

[Sharon B.]

In my opinion it will turn into another reality show and it will make us out as freaks at a side show.

[Ilsa]

Things that don't help us: Dennis Rodman, RuPaul, Drag Queens and for those of us who are old enough to remember Milton Berle. I think this is the stereotype that a lot of people associate us with and with the media promoting it all the time it only hurts us more. Caitlyn's emergence could be a critical turn in the publics perception of who a transgender person really is. I only hope that Caitlyn handles her situation in a dignified manner.

[JasmeVee]

I'm happy for caitlyn and wish her the best. I however, am more impressed by the recent transition of andrej (andreja) pejic. To possibly lose a career at her age to change gender was gutsy. And she is beautiful just as she was as a retired male

[Mary Morgan]

Ilsa,

Thoughtful people will be happy for Caitlyn Jenner and for those of us who are gender gifted. On balance, I believe there are more thinkers than the thoughtless who frankly don't like anything they don't understand, or should I say are unreasonably fearful of. In the short term, it will no doubt be hyped to a point of extremes, but in the long run, this time will mark a new wonderful beginning. I only wish I had her courage when I was younger.

[Stephanie47]

I'm happy for Caitlyn. She had the resources to make her transition and to do some body sculpting that the ordinary folks of the world cannot afford. Yes, she had a professional makeup artist, and, she had a first class photographer. I don't know why there is so much criticism about the use of professionals to make a woman look her best. I noticed when my daughter was a bride, and, also a bridesmaid these past two years that all the women were heavily made up for the camera. Their makeup was really "caked on" for the camera. The object was to hide their natural "blemishes" or at least not have the camera accentuate the "blemishes."

As to whether Caitlyn's transition will help the cause. You have to define what the cause may be. In Washington State the law is extremely supportive of gays and lesbians, transsexuals, and, even cross dressers. Local laws in some municipalities even goes further than state law. If you live in a state that does not afford these rights, then Caitlyn may bring some further understanding of the plight of transsexuals and other sexual minorities. Will this eliminate the outright misunderstandings of the plight of transsexuals on the local level, i.e., the local populace? Maybe. But, I do not see the locals stop screaming and yelling if a transitioning male wants to use the women's locker room at school.

Some or even most people will still shake their heads about any of this and choose not to understand. I would hope the wives of cross dressers would reflect upon Caitlyn's transition and see their husbands as more complicated than just a guy wearing a dress. Frankly, if I grew my hair out when I was in my late teens and early twenties I would have looked as feminine as Cailtyn without any enhancements of my facial features. Now, at the age Bruce was...I'd need a lot of help and money to look like Caitlyn.

Hopefully, Caitlyn will just fade away from public view and enjoy her new self. I would not envy a life of fleeing from the paparazzi.

[Madeleine Quinn]

I personally think Jaden's very public genderqueer/genderfluid dressing is the much bigger deal. Because it is being treated as if it's perfectly normal.

I'm not so sure about this—in particular, the part about Jaden Smith wearing girls'/women's clothes "being treated as if it's perfectly normal." Especially in the wake of the notorious pseudophilosophical nonsense interview he and Willow did, the Smith kids have been looked at as something of a freak show. Their parents' unorthodox (and some would say overly lax) approach to parenting, their connections to Scientology, and rumors about their (i.e., Will and Jada's) own sexual orientations have all also added to the perception that, however one might describe that family, "perfectly normal" isn't a description that would come to mind for most. I'm sure it also hasn't helped that so many people have publicly called into question whether either Jaden or Willow has any real talent as an entertainer, or whether instead they've both simply cashed in on their parents' success and connections. I think the jury's very much still out on whether most folks view Jaden Smith and his public acts as perfectly normal or something of a joke, but right now, my read is that if there is any emerging consensus, it's hewing closer to the latter.

Of course, Jaden's philosophical views, his talent or lack thereof as an actor, etc., should have no bearing on whether society in general is accepting of performances of gender (his or anyone else's) that subvert societal norms. My impression, though, is that in most people's minds, Jaden's gender performance is pretty inseparable from all of those other things that make him and his family something of a lightning rod.

[Krisi]

Some one posted the cover photo of Ms. Jenner on Facebook with a bunch of hateful comments and Bible quotes. Several people agreed and a few stood up for her. My comment was, what if your own child or grandchild came and told you that he or she was gay (yes, some folks lumped transgender and gay together), lesbian or transgender? Would you still love him or her?

While this Jenner situation is bringing transgender folks to the forefront, it seems to be generating a lot of hate as well as possible acceptance. Just dividing the country over one more issue.

[Alexis08]

She looks fabulous, but I can't help but wondering whether she is a genuine transsexual who wants to live as a woman 24/7 or just a CD who felt forced to undergo sex change in order to be able to live out her feminine side.

I can imagine it's tough to live as a CD when you're a celebrity and are part of the Kardashian clan.

[justmetoo]

I just wish Caitlyn the best, as I do for anyone. I'm not going to judge or speculate about hidden motives or what might be or what might happen or anything. I feel like she has the right to do what works for her. I wouldn't want to be in her shoes, but I'm not her. So, here's to Caitlyn! Good luck and have a happy life!

[donnaS]

As far as the Bible people go.
I say, they need to sweep under their feet before they sweep under Caitlyn's.
And further more, what she has done is between God and her when they meet face to face.
"Judge no one but yourself"
Cause there is no jury in Heavan.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

I think the publicity surrounding Caitlyn's debut will be be a step akin to Ellen DeGeneris' comming out. It won't change things instantly, but it will give more people reason to support legal protections for non-gender conforming individuals. Even with those protections, though, there will always be bigotry. Look at the state of the USA 50 years after the Civil Rights Act.

[Barbara Jo]

With money, many many thing are obtainable that are out of reach for the average person .

IF Katilyn did no have her facial electrolysis, her facial feminization surgery and apple shaving (this past march) she would still just look like a man in a dress!
These procedures are totally out of reach financially for most trans people.

Also, if one is not working at a job where they have to present as male, they can hide from the public and transition much easier as Katilyn did and her money allowed.
Imagine someone trying to transition when working at a male blue collar job. It wold be very close to impossible.....both financially and socially.

In short..... Katilyn's position in life allowed/enabled her to transition.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Judging by pictures I have seen, Caitlyn had electrolysis a long time ago (might have even done it in the 80s, when she started to transition.) Obviously, I notice those things.