Caitlyn Jenner raising the bar for passing

[Michelle789]

I've been on HRT for a little over 10 months now. I see my face softening up nicely, and my breasts are growing. I noticed that it seemed as though I am passing much better. I found that I seemed to consistently be gendered properly and mis-gendered less and less over the past 10 months. In fact, from February through April, I was not mis-gendered a single time. I got mis-gendered once or twice during May. Once June arrived, so did the gloom. It's a joke, we have a weather phenomena in L.A. called "June Gloom" where the weather is very overcast for the month of June.

All jokes aside, the real gloom isn't the overcast weather. The real gloom is I have been consistently mis-gendered by strangers since the start of this month, and it coincides with the coming out of Caitlyn Jenner. For the record, I have also been very sick since late April with bronchitis and an annoying cough that just won't go away.

So it makes me wonder, does Caitlyn Jenner's coming out now raise the bar of what it takes to pass? Could what was once considered passable no longer be passable? Now I probably will have to wait another 10 months or even get FFS in order to pass. Remembering that passability is a spectrum not a black and white. It's like I was maybe 80% passable and now I moved to 20% passable with Jenner coming out. And now you had better be 98% passable - 97% could still get you clocked. Or could there be another reason I am getting mis-gendered.

The only strangers who gendered me properly were the people working at the farmer's market on Monday, and the farmers probably aren't watching too much reality TV or news to even be aware of Jenner.

On a side note, sometimes I feel like I'll never pass, it's kinda depressing. I also fear that Jenner's coming out has done more harm than good for our community.

Yeah, I know, just another Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner thread. I posted a thread on the TS forum about Jenner raising the bar for passability.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ar-for-passing

I notice that I seem to be getting mis-gendered pretty consistently since June 1 when Caitlyn came out, while I had been consistently gendered properly in the months leading up to her coming out. You would think that being on HRT for 10 months would improve passability. But this raises another question.

Could Jenner's coming out actually be doing us more harm? Now that people have seen Caitlyn Jenner, for one thing people know what to look for in order to clock us. And there are enough transphobes out there who have been really riled up by Jenner's coming out that they will make it known to us, be it mis-gendering us, mocking us, laughing at us, or even worse, physical violence towards.

I think that there are a few reasons why Caitlyn Jenner's coming out might do us more harm than good, as mentioned on some of the other Jenner threads.

1. Hundreds of millions of male egos have been deflated. Now most men who spot a trans person will, at the very best, mis-gender us. At the very worst, they could harass us, murder us, beat us, deny us employment, fire us from our jobs, or anything else.

2. Women feel threatened by us too. Now women just see us as a bunch of perverts who want to invade women's spaces, or are trying to be a fetishized image of what a man wants a woman to be. This is one thing that a lot of the trans community has trouble with Jenner. Now this images could be getting projected onto the entire trans community.

3. Religious fundamentalists of both genders have their own agendas too. But I think aside from religious fundamentalism, there is something deeper than religious beliefs causing most people to be uncomfortable with us. It's either deflated male egos, women feeling we're a bunch of perverts, or both genders being jealous of us for being authentic while they are stuck living miserable lives. Either way, I see that lots of people of both sexes have become more uncomfortable around us than they used to be.


Could this mean hard times ahead for our community? Could we expect to see a spike in transgender murders in the coming months. Will more of us suddenly lose our jobs in the coming months? Will those of us who needs jobs have an even harder time than ever trying to find work because of being trans? After being mis-gendered so consistently lately after seemingly passing so well for months, I seriously wonder if Caitlyn Jenner's coming out is doing us more harm than good. I also wonder this based on some of the responses I saw on earlier threads too.

[Dawn cd]

Jenner had the full talent of a high-end makeup studio, an ace photographer with elaborate lighting, and the full services of a magazine's computer design department. These people could make Dick Cheney passable.

Don't throw in the towel yet.

[Bridget Ann Gilbert]

I think that as is always the case with life there are good and bad consequences when anyone makes their personal decisions public. You seem to be very focused on the negative because you are afraid of how it affects you. That is perfectly normal, but not should not be generalized to the whole TG community. Your three reasons for Caitlyn's coming out being harmful are ones we have always had to deal with. The volume is up because of the celebrity factor, but that will diminish when the next shiny object comes along. I definitely don't think people are jealous of our "authenticity" when most people have plenty of their own.

I believe there has been much that is positive in Caitlyn's story. People are talking about transgenderism and when people talk there is an opportunity to grow. It is our responsibility to speak up for ourselves if we are ever going to change people's minds. Without our voices the vacume will be filled by the noise of the ignorant, the bigoted and the hateful. Caitlyn is having her say. We should be supportive rather than critical of her efforts.

Bridget

[Eryn]

Jenner has certainly raised public consciousness of our presence, but I can't see this as a bad thing. I'm less passable than Michelle and seldom get misgendered either BC (Before Caitlyn) or AB (After Bruce). There will always be ignorant cads out there and luckily their awareness of us will fade as something else will soon occupy their limited consciousnesses.

[AngelaYVR]

I'll take my chances.

[Lorileah]

you really think men are now scared of CDs? You really think women will hate us? You think that TGs somehow have any bearing over non-TGs feelings of gender or sexuality?

You people have a strange idea of the world.

If all you say is true, it would have happened when Chaz Bono transitioned...

[PaulaQ]

This is satire, right?

[AllieSF]

I agree with Bridget. I also think that maybe you are reading way too much into all this. I haven't had any problems yet, have not been mis-gendered and am still enjoying life.

[PaulaQ]

Those of us who do advocacy work always stress "passing doesn't matter."

Now I know it does to individuals - it certainly does to me. But society needs to learn that cisnormative beauty standards just can't be used as a basis for discrimination. (By the way it's really stupid that it matters to me - since I tell everyone "hey, I'm trans!")

Keep in mind that Jenner has been on and off hormones since the 1980's, and you've been on them for only 10 months.

Also keep in mind that some of us will never really pass. I have a friend. She's beautiful. Blonde. Willowy. Slender. Gorgeous face, nice figure. There's just one reason she doesn't pass - she's 6' 7" tall - in flats. My roommate is quite nice looking. She has a nice face, amazing legs - and she's 6' 2", and built like a professional athlete, which she in fact was.

You're 10 months in, hon. You're doing great. This stuff is slow and it just takes time. Don't sweat it.

[Marcelle]

Hi Michelle,

I don't see an increase in odd looks, sniggers, guffaws or finger points when out. Those things have always been there and will always be there until the human race can finally achieve emotional maturity which given our history will most likely be long after I shuffle off this mortal coil.

Hugs

Isha

[ChristinaK]

I think most people have not paid much attention to the issue and like Bridget said, the next shiny object will come along.

Overall, my opinion is that it has been beneficial. Bruce was considered a macho athlete. It could be anybody, not just a momma's boy. I know that I have had to reassure my wife that I don't want to transition like Bruce did.

Caitlin's story can open up conversation about us that many people have not considered and come to the conclusion that we're not just perverts, which my own wife has called me.

Yes, there will be those that are threatened by the issue, as I have already heard on talk radio relating to how ISIS see's this sort of thing as a reason to prove they're correct in their beliefs and how we drive people to join their cause. And, there could be some truth to that issue. Certainly ISIS would love to throw us off a building.

Overall, people like Caitlin tend to normalize the issue and provoke thought. Even if people clock me and think I'm a copycat, that's better than thinking I'm a pervert.

I don't think muggles will ever fully understand, but if the tolerance increases I'm okay with that.

[Kate Simmons]

The Media exposure is a classic example of an idea or agenda being thrust down people's throats in a "sugar coated" way. The Media doesn't really care about any of us or who we are as people, just the sensationalism associated with it to sell papers and magazines. Just being ourselves as people is the better way to show others who we are.

[arbon]

I don't think Caitlyn changes anything in this regard.

"passing" can impact the quality of your life. The more you look and come across to others like a guy the more you will be treated that way. I think it depends on where you want to be in your own life.

Edit: I should note that in my home town I do not pass because too many people knew me there from before transition and it is well known I am trans, so it is also and issue of your past.

[Claire Cook]

I agree with Bridget. I also think that maybe you are reading way too much into all this. I haven't had any problems yet, have not been mis-gendered and am still enjoying life.

... and I agree with both of you, and all of the above responses.

[deebra]

Michelle, look at it this way, the more you expose something to the public, they learn and get use to it and it becomes less of a threat. That said wouldn't it be better for us if a lot more males started "coming out" and adding and wearing fem clothing for the public to see. It could be just girl jeans or sandels or a little makeup; earrings and long hair are already accepted in males.

What would really help us is if the designers and manufacturers started a new trend for the soft and sexy look in male clothing. That is soft colorful slip over tops, jeans cut tight and form fitting like girls, shorts that are short and not below the knee, bikini swim suits, etc. If they would launch this as the latest swing in fashion design and convince women there men would look sexy in the new unisex clothing it just might make acceptance quicker. Yea, I'm holding my breath on them doing that; so if you don't hear from me *%&#

[Mollyanne]

For my 2 cents worth, from reading your post concerning Caitlyn and her "coming out" I personally think you went WAY OVER THE TOP!!!!!! All that you say that could happen, happens already!!!!!! Next week all this will disappear onto the back page and something else will take its place. Me personally, I give Caitlyn a lot of credit and would switch places with her in a "New York minute". If you remember, there was a British model named Tula, she transitioned and there was a lot of talk about a transgendered model "invading and disrupting the fashion model industry. That BS only lasted three whole days and then it disappeared. If I remember correctly, she is now married.

If EVERYBODY would just stop and accept would Caitlyn did as her own choice all things considered it would just go away.

Molly

[flatlander_48]

Personally, I would never want to deny someone the freedom to transition, regardless of any consequences for the community at large, if that is what they needed to do. And everything that we have heard and read about Caitlyn Jenner would certainly indicate that she had been holding back for a long time. Further, the vast majority of well known people who have transitioned had greater notoriety AFTER they transitioned. Bruce Jenner is rare in that he has been exceedingly famous for a LONG time before Caitlyn ever came along. This was NEVER going to be a quiet, low key deal anyway, so it doesn't make sense to entertain that thought.

DeeAnn

[emma5410]

I am sorry but I do not understand how it makes a difference. To pass means that people look at you and see a woman. How does that change because of Caitlyn Jenner?
I would say that people may expect transsexuals to look as good as her and not realise that many people do not have her advantages. It is noticeable that all the 'faces' of transsexuals in the media are attractive. Would they be getting the same positive response if they were not.

[Beth-Lock]

So it makes me wonder, does Caitlyn Jenner's coming out now raise the bar of what it takes to pass?
.

It does if you are a Kardashian or a celebrity trying to compete head-on with the Kardashians for this sort of publicity. That is all.

And, about being misgendered, my problem with that is my manner, and that is behavioural. I talk and think too much like a male still. You have to adopt a gracious cheerfulness, and a sort of casual, non-serious manner. A little up-talk also helps, (raising the tone/pitch of your voice at the end of a sentence). Women use different words for the same thing, from those used by men. If you think all that is overdoing it and not politically correct, remember we are trying to create a sort of illusion, and being more femme than born femmes is just part of the way it is done, or at least a short cut to it. .Think of it as an initiation rite, that eventually you will get past, and stop. That is a large part of what is meant by the saying, "The real transition only begins post-op." That means it goes on and on, not that it did not start very long ago, in your past, perhaps even before you transitioned too.

[bimini1]

There could be some of what you're talking about going on. And I do agree with what someone said about media pushing it down people's throats (I get this from my mom all the time, what you do is what you but why do I have to keep hearing and seeing about it).

But I think some of it is your own perspective changing. We see the world how we see it to us. Two people can look at a situation and come away from it with two totally different perspectives. I learned years ago when you change the way you look at something, what you are looking at changes.

[gonegirl]

.... remember we are trying to create a sort of illusion, and being more femme than born femmes is just part of the way it is done, or at least a short cut to it.

This quote is from the post above, which is so packed full of bizzare thinking that my head is spinning.... and my heart is sinking.... Apart from the obvious issue with the concrpt that being female is about acting "femme", If someone does all that to create an "illusion" of being female they will come off as a bad parody of a woman. If this is what being a woman is all about to some people, then it's no wonder that society largely thinks non cis people are freaks. Sheesh...

[PretzelGirl]

Now I know it does to individuals - it certainly does to me. But society needs to learn that cisnormative beauty standards just can't be used as a basis for discrimination. (By the way it's really stupid that it matters to me - since I tell everyone "hey, I'm trans!")

Paula, I don't know if you are in the same line of thinking as I am. But if I am lucky enough to be there, telling people I am trans* when I want to and not having it in the discussion otherwise is part of controlling the message to me. It makes life feel more in control instead of being at the whim of what everyone else is thinking.

[Frances]

Since Jenner is a public figure, she technically cannot pass and does not have to. The photos are impressive, but many avatars in this site are as well. She has not changed her voice at all. Most people pass, even ones that don't look as good as Jenner, if they are meeting people who did not know them before. I know lots of people who had no FFS and have no trouble passing 100% of the time. Not having a TV show helps.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

Nonsense. All the overblown media coverage of Caitlyn Jenner will be a good thing for us. It has dramatically raised awareness and interest in transgender issues and that will benefit transgender folks especially in the long run. Maybe there will be an increase in the incidence of bigots expressing their outrage at what they consider to be a weakness or perversion. But you know what, in recent decades, those bigots have had to get used to and to accept having neighbors who were of a different race, of mixed race couples, of unwed parents, of homosexuals, and all manner of people with different orientations or lifestyles. And they will eventually have to accept transgender people. It's happening and the Caitlyn story is helping.

Stephanie

[Jenniferathome]

... Now that people have seen Caitlyn Jenner, for one thing people know what to look for in order to clock us. ...

Every human on earth over the age of about 5 already knows the millions of subtle visual differences between male and female. Jenner has zero impact on that.

Regarding you nonsensical thoughts on all the bad things that could happen now, again, Jenner has nothing to do with that. Today is no different than yesterday or last month or last year.... Awareness can only help.