Just my bit of advice. Quit worrying about stink eyes and bad vibes. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. I think you will convert those bad vibes and stink eyes into friends even if they don't like it.
Just my bit of advice. Quit worrying about stink eyes and bad vibes. Treat others the way you would like to be treated. I think you will convert those bad vibes and stink eyes into friends even if they don't like it.
Move to New Orleans - I assure you, you'll be VERY popular!
Where are you in Texas? Here in Dallas, some gay people get transgender people, some don't. I live in the heart of the gay district in Dallas, and have for the past two years I've been in transition. My experiences here have been very good so far, and I feel the community here is, overall, very accepting and supportive of us. Far more so than in other parts of the area.
You didn't specify in your posts, but was your wife talking to gay men or gay women? It might make a difference. Most of the gay men I know here have been great to me, even if a lot of them don't understand I'm not just a really frumpy drag queen or a super-charged version of a gay man. (Some of them really do get that I'm a woman.) Other people I know who are actually CDs (I'm not - I'm transitioning), haven't had problems as far as I know, and in fact some of the bars down here are frequent destinations for CDs. Some guys will be interested in you, some won't.
Some gay women don't like MtF trans. Actually some gay women are extremely hostile to all trans, both MtF and FtM. That said, the gay bar most often picked as a destination for CD excursions here in Dallas is Sue Ellen's, a lesbian bar, and there must be a reason for that. I doubt a male identified CD would have much luck in a lesbian bar, but some of us who transition can sometimes get a date once in a while. (There are issues with that that aren't on topic - or usually really just one issue in particular.)
There are gay men who don't like us either, but I haven't run into much of that personally.
Depending on where you are, it may simply be that there aren't enough CDs / TGs / trans* for the community to have much experience with us, or perhaps they feel a strong compulsion to "pass for straight" because of prejudices in their area. Dallas, Austin, and Houston are great - the rest of the state? Oh hell no.
BTW, if someone looks at me and says "I don't know why the 'T' is included in LGBT, because y'all aren't about a sexual orientation", I make two points to them:
1. Stereotypes aside, a lot of us are gay, lesbian or bisexual. So we belong in the club for that reason alone
2. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend..." The people that hate transgender folks generally also hate gays, lesbians, and bisexuals, and many of these folks do not distinguish between us.
It can happen but is not the norm....is very simple Some Masculine Gay Guys dont like Fem or flamboyant Gay Guys and since crossdressing is such a mystery for everybody , they just assume you belong to the second type.
Some of my (Michelle's) best and most supportive mainstream friends in Australia are gay. Beautiful and accepting people. Must say that I haven't experienced any hate from anyone in all my outings.
A few of my gay male friends don't quite get me but they are never mean about it.
I have one that enjoys me in girl mode and we do lots of things together as a regular looking couple.
I haven't been to our local gay bar en fem, since I was 22, but it's good folk, and it's time Summer caught back up with the times.
That said, it was pointed out to me sometime ago that there was at one point a lot of hostility towards the B people too. Some thought it undermined the 'born that way' argument and detracted from the political equality agenda. Could be some of that going on there; we're even confusing to ourselves, and we've been invisible for a lot longer than LGB...
Gay vs straight can be just as black and white as boy vs. girl for some. I think Kinseys kinda blew that thinking out of the water a while back tho, at least for me...
I worked with a gay man who seemed to hate everyone who wasn't also gay. A nasty person.
On the other hand I have known and worked with gay men (and women) who acted just like anyone else towards other people. Stereotyping gay people is no better than stereotyping black or white people. We are all different and unique.
I don't think its true. I just walked down my High Street, dressed in ladies shorts, ladies T and sandals, and passed a gay guy wearing ladies shorts and ladies vest ... I don't think he even "clocked" me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.
thanks to krististeph: tigger = TG'er .. T-I-GG-er
So how do you know when you've passed a "gay guy"? The ones I have known personally looked just like straight guys. It's only once I got to know them that I found out they were gay. Same with lesbian women.
I have found that most gay and lesbian people blend in with society pretty well.
I have to chuckle! Years ago I went with my wife to a so called Gay Club in Southampton - The Magnum, it was called.
Couple of drinks later she had to go to the toilet, leaving me, scared to bits with the rest of the crowd. No sooner had she gone, a pleasant chubby little man sidled over and said " Do you ever go cottaging" I said "Whats that?" He said, "Stop being coy. You know, going round the public toilets. To see what you can pick up"
I told him that there is NOTHING in a public toilet I would ever want to pick up"
He said, "Sorry Darlin' - buy you a drink?" He did, and we chatted for a while. Bad mistake but nice gesture!
If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!
Maybe some blend, but others are obvious. How many straight guys walk down the road hand-in-hand with a male friend?Originally Posted by Krisi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
I used to believe this, now I'm in the company of many tiggers. A tigger does not wonder why she is a tigger, she just is a tigger.
thanks to krististeph: tigger = TG'er .. T-I-GG-er
Gay men are just that "gay men" who are only interested in other gay men sexually. CD's can be straight or they can be bi or they can be gay and love to dress. So as a CD we definitely have more options don't we and more fun too, I think!
Thank you all for the great feedback I need to extend my circle of friends and go out more. lol
I think most people associate with people similar to themselves. I've noticed over the years most people will be courteous to others in a social or business setting, but, will express their dislikes or confusion in private. I see no reason why a gay man or a lesbian should understand a cross dressing man any more than a straight man or woman. Heck, I don't understand myself. Many times the media has reported on disagreements between peoples who suffer discrimination. Because one segment of society has been discriminated against does not give rise to automatically supporting another segment suffering discrimination.
I have come across gay men who don't appreciate cross dressers but I have not seen any hateful behaviour. Just lucky I suppose.
I have almost never encountered hostility by anyone from the LGB part of the TLGB-community.
And never from gay men.. the rare occasion that there actually was the less than friendly stare.. was from a lesbian (probably a TERF) and from a couple of MtF's who were transitioning (probably thinking I was not taking 'it' as seriously as they were).
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The problem isn't about being transgender, it's about being a closeted CD who thinks nothing of intruding in gay spaces that people have literally died to make safe. I know that sounds a bit dramatic, but that's just how it comes out of me sometimes. (my people do love their drama)
I was an out gay dude before, ...'the change', and I can tell you that closet cases definitely make me uncomfortable. Perhaps I'm just projecting, because I was once a closet queen myself, but the whole idea of hanging out with the queers in private but denouncing them in public has never sat right with me. Even when I was doing it.
I don't have a problem with gender benders or part-timers who are openly supportive of gay and/or transgender rights. I understand that people may feel more comfortable presenting as a man for work or whatever. People do not have to 'pick a side' when it comes to gender presentation, and people like me, and the average gay dude can spot the genuine article a mile away. You can be 'closeted' and still be an ally who likes to party on the DL.
My enmity is reserved for those who are openly NOT supportive and who may in fact even be openly hostile to my people (queers and dykes), yet still want to be accepted and protected in our safe spaces.
This forum is populated by CD's who will punch you in the face if you call them gay. That's not a person I want to let into my circle of naughty irreverent nutcases.
This makes so much sense, thank you for this perspective! As hetero-identifying men, many of us CD'ers still hold heteronormative and homophobic ideas, and I can see why some gay men are reluctant to welcome that into their safe places.
Whoa...! Really... Gross generalisations are not entirely the province of bigots and haters then...???
I don't think you really meant that - Melissa - because while I have encountered pockets of intolerance here (and not just from CDers) I actually believe that most folk here, regardless of their nature (CD or TG/trans) or sexual orientation are accepting and tolerant. Probably not dissimilar to most gay folk that I've had the fortune to meet.
You have the opportunity to rephrase or retract...
As to the OP - I think she's made it clear that ANY generalisation is fraught with the same issues as your own - they only reflect the instantaneous reality of the individual, not necessarily the broad experience of the whole...
Katey x
"Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear" Stefani Germanotta
You are wrong Natasha V, or at least your statement is incomplete. It should be, "Everybody hates crossdressers". A sad fact, and the answer is simple, people is stupid, that's all.
Can't retract because I've read the comments myself. I didn't say all or even most but we're all fooling ourselves if we want to pretend that there aren't closeted CD's on this board that get very unhappy with the idea that people may think they are gay. Are they in the minority? Not in my opinion. The fact is that MOST crossdressers are closeted for one reason or another. MOST of them are straight or profess to be. MOST of them don't identify as gay or as part of the gay community.Whoa...! You have the opportunity to rephrase or retract...
In my view, any man that dresses like a woman and wants to be addressed as one is as queer as folk, and I don't mean that as an insult. Queers are my favorite people, but the queers I know, are proud to be who they are. People outside of the community think being called queer or dyke or fag is an insult but that's only because they use those words as insults. It's quite telling really.
I stand by my submission that the gay community doesn't appreciate those that eschew us during the day but want to party with us at night. Nobody enjoys being someone else's dirty little secret.
I agree with you. Most of the folks on this forum could quite accurately be described as heterosexual queers. (Most of the ones I know really are straight. I know, right?) Many, but not all, are too afraid of losing cis / het privilege to be out. It's understandable they are afraid, coming out is fraught with risk and loss. Coming out is hard.
Although I don't judge anyone here because I understand all too well the fears they face, and the losses they risk, I believe the closeted nature of this community harms it greatly. And I can certainly understand people who've stood up to oppression and risked all not appreciating someone who is too afraid to make a stand for themselves, but chooses instead to ride on their coattails.
A lot of that goes on here, and in the broader crossdressing community. And it needs to stop.
There are CDs here who are out, and brave, and who've risked quite a lot really. But they are notable because they are rare. I respect them.
And it isn't that I lack respect for everyone else - it's just that I've met so many CDs who seem so freaking miserable because of their double lives. Believe me, I know that pain. They are only hurting themselves.
Don't feel totally bad about this. There are gay / lesbian folks who just hate transgender people on general principles. And believe me, there are a fair number of homophobic transgender people. I spend a good amount of time pointing out to homophobic trans women that most of them are, in fact, lesbians. Boy are they surprised!
Part of the reason this stuff happens is because we internalize our fears about gender / sexuality, turning them inwards on ourselves, and that often results in doing rather negative things to others to prove "oh I'm not like them at all!"
Last edited by PaulaQ; 07-02-2015 at 02:34 AM.
I am in a 12 step group very Friday which is a LGBT meeting. Most members are gay men. At first I felt some tension from some of the men. I started going early in my journey and I had not decided to fully transition. I also disclosed I was bi but was monogamous with my wife. I am not sure which fact, being TG or bi, caused some tension.
What I found was that as I shared my story and listened to their stories, we found common ground. I truly feel that almost all of the men there are in my corner pulling for me to live an authentic life. Yes gay men may empathize with our struggle to be us but not fully understand our plight. It is up to us to love and educate them as we try to form a community with them.
I agree with Bad Tranny that it doesn't help when closeted straight identifying CDs only interact with the gay community at night in a dark bar. I too used to be a straight identifying man that only interacted with gay men in a sordid dark way outside my regular life. I don't want to be that person anymore. The shame is harmful for everyone, me and the entire LGBT community.
One final point. I realized at SF Pride on Sunday that I am on the verge of becoming a member of the L part of LGBT. I was walking hand in hand with my wife celebrating the Marriage Equality ruling when it hit me that we will legally be 2 women who are married soon! I had a big smile on my face !
Suzanne
Perhaps the generalization that gay men hate crossdressers is a product of your own internal transphobia
Last edited by Princess Chantal; 07-02-2015 at 03:38 AM.
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