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Thread: How would you suggest I out myself at work?

  1. #1
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
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    How would you suggest I out myself at work?

    I am a strongly heterosexual MtF crossdresser, who is still in the closet. I have no desire to transition, or even present as a female. In my ideal world, I would simply be allowed to wear whatever articles of clothing I felt like, regardless of which section of the clothing store they were originally purchased from. Of course, in a work situation, they would have to be appropriate for the job I do.

    I work for an organisation which operates under the auspices of a London Borough, but which will shortly switch to being a charitable trust. The organisation has a robust (at least on paper) Equality and Diversity policy in place. The term “transgendered” appears every time it speaks about treating people equally.

    I have a fixed term contract which runs till the end of the decade, when my work visa expires. I expect to apply for and be granted permanent residence at that point, and suppose that my employment will then become permanent.

    I am entering my umpteenth childhood and am toying with the idea of testing this policy. So here is an open-ended question, to which I invite intelligent responses …

    How would you suggest I out myself at work?
    Last edited by Nigella; 07-14-2015 at 01:26 PM.

  2. #2
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    You should read Isha's posts. She managed to change the way the Canadian Armed Forces deals with non-transitioners who wish to dress at work!

    ... many people begin by having a chat with HR.
    Reine

  3. #3
    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    If you are in the closet and haven't gone out yet. That would be a start. Go out while doing your daily tasks and errands. Build confidence and raise your comfort level. In the interim you can start wearing clear nail polish daily. Gradually moving to shear color ad your comfort level increases. Grow your hair, get your ears pierced. These are all steps that will allow you to step out into the work environment without totally outing yourself. Many will just think you're eccentric. The key is to own who you are with confidence. When asked why are your nails painted. You need to be able to respond. " I like it and it makes me feel good ".

    You have to remember. Once you ring the bell, it can't be unrung.
    "When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes

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  4. #4
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    I suggest that you don't out yourself at work. Nothing good can come from it and many bad things can come from it. Keep your crossdressing and your income producing job as far apart as possible.

  5. #5
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    Of all the times I've kicked around the "out at work" issue, there seems to be only one conclusion. Never ever! I keep it very secure. Now, if someone else outed me for some kind of evilness reason (I work with vampires) we would be in HR demanding termination for workplace hostility.
    I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
    My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
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    Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!

  6. #6
    stone free mykell's Avatar
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    hi gale,
    i would simply like to wear the clothing i like regardless of the dept. they come from, sounds like a simple request,
    but here we all are....just a thought....since you dont go out dressed, seem to be content in that closet for the time being, not going to transition, why not wait out the renewal of your contract....no matter what is in writing policy wise personal feeling of those who may disagree with your lifestyle choices will be in charge of how far you will grow with the company....they can cite so many other reasons why you were not picked up for permanent hire....for now if you dont muddy the waters and ride out the term.....after qualification for permanent employment you can reevaluate if you wish to out yourself at work ..... just my thoughts.....
    ....Mykell
    i dressed like a girl and i liked it! crossdressing...theirs an app for that those who deny freedom deserve it not for themselves
    NOBODY gets a pass to blow out someone else's candle in order to make theyre's shine brighter

  7. #7
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    Hi Gail, See line #3 in my signature,

    If you really feel that this is something that you must do have a long chat with your HR Dept.
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

    I can explain it to you, But I can't comprehend it for you !

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  8. #8
    Girl from the Eagles Nest reb.femme's Avatar
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    Sounds like you work for a government department so I can't see any problems with the department in regard to coming out as Trans. The problems are the likely rejections by work colleagues, so if you can put up with that, a chat with HR is definitely the way to go. I've worked for my local borough council in the past and I'd be confident of their support.

    I know you wanted sensible answers but the easiest way to come out to all at work is to send an email to the "all exchange users" group or whatever it's called at your place. That way, there'll be no secret to worry about anymore.

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  9. #9
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Hi Gale,

    Take a look at Klaire Larnia's threads and posts... Klaire is also a UK girl so has done a lot of what you describe in a similar environment: not presenting female - as much as I totally respect Isha, she does present as female so I think Klaire has some more relevant examples (and she's made an absolute science of outfit coordination... )

    And yes, do speak to HR before doing anything - while some gender presentation protection exists, some organisations will have valid rules requiring certain standards or types of dress code - I would spend time ensuring that you have HR and as many layers of direct management bought into your philosophy before you do anything in practice. You might want to test exactly what they mean by 'transgendered' and how (or whether) you fit into their definition. If you can make a convincing argument that this is about self-expression and not 'fancy dress' (as I can imagine some will perceive it) then you may have some success.

    Good luck - and do let us know what you decide and what happens!

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  10. #10
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
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    I am a strongly heterosexual MtF crossdresser, who is still in the closet. I have no desire to transition, or even present as a female.
    I am entering my umpteenth childhood and am toying with the idea of testing this policy.
    If you are heterosexual and have no desire to transition, why would you want to come out at your workplace? Why do you want to test the policy. You sound like a troublemaker, trying to test and push the limits. These things usually don't end well, because they will peg you as a troublemaker, rather than a sincere trans person. My old girlfriend had a crude saying about messing around at work. "You don't sh!t where you eat"!

    I realize this is a support group. But we don't do anyone, including ourselves any favors when we support or endorse bad behavior. The "dude in a dress" testing the limits makes us all look bad.
    Last edited by MelanieAnne; 07-14-2015 at 08:36 PM.

  11. #11
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    So because I go to work, present as a male, and have my fingernails painted bright pink, and I am "testing the limits" then I am making "us all look bad." What a complete bunch of horse doodie! It is not us gender non-conformists that make some CDs look bad, they do that all on their own!

    As to the OP - for me, I know they have a non discrimination policy on hand as I am in a union protected profession. So I just started doing me and waited for a response. None came, except for continued praise for my great work.

  12. #12
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
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    So because I go to work, present as a male, and have my fingernails painted bright pink, and I am "testing the limits" then I am making "us all look bad."
    I doubt there are any kind of limits in The Peoples Republic of Califawnia. I'm referring to the rest of the country.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nikkilovesdresses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaleWarning View Post
    I have no desire to...present as a female.
    Then why on Earth would you out yourself?
    I used to have a short attention spa

  14. #14
    Member carolynn2fem's Avatar
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    I was recently at a big name sub shop fixing something. I noticed the manager there. young kid is his 20s. I noticed a lack of body hair on both arms and legs. there was a suttile outline of a bra under his shirt and necklace with trans insignia. he seem fit in with the rest on the crew. also posably wearing lip stick too. how out to his fellow employees I could say fore sure. I felt it unproffesionl to say anything

  15. #15
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    Carolynn, you noticed that this man had no body hair and was wearing a bra? That's odd because so many posts on this forum state that no one will notice such things. Your post pretty much proves them incorrect.

    A transsexual will have to "come out" at some point, but no good can come of a crossdresser outing himself at work and he puts his job at risk by doing so.

  16. #16
    Silver Member Bobbi46's Avatar
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    If I was at work which I am not any more I would not, I previously posted about "outing" to a personal friend, and the general opinion from everybody was don't, once the cat is out of the bag there is no going back. At work it could cause you a whole lot of problems and then again word would get out mouth to mouth and before you can bat an eyelid its got back to your family and relatives, do you want them to know as well?.

  17. #17
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    I doubt there are any kind of limits in The Peoples Republic of Califawnia. I'm referring to the rest of the country.
    So.... everyone.... if you live in California you are free to be gender non-conforming, but if you live anywhere else in the US, then be afraid, be VERY afraid! Oh and the rest of the world, apparently you don't count in this conversation!

    What is it about some folks seemingly feeling free to dictate how to express one's gender. Good for you! (Did my sarcasm come through well enough?)

  18. #18
    Diva AbigailJordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    A transsexual will have to "come out" at some point, but no good can come of a crossdresser outing himself at work and he puts his job at risk by doing so.
    I find that to be a very polarised view of things Krisi, Just because you can't see any good from your perspective doesn't mean that good cannot exist for others. Crossdressing is part of who we are for almost all of us. Having to effectively be only half of who you are day in and day out at work can be difficult for some.

    It's also interesting that you say a TS will HAVE to come out at some point. The inference is that crossdressers DON'T have to come out if they don't want to. But then.. maybe some of them DO want to come out, and staying hidden can cause as much damage as being open.

    As for putting jobs at risk, I don't see how. Employers are not allowed to discriminate on the grounds of gender identity and as long as acceptable dress codes are adhered to there is no significant risk beyond the normal hazards of coming out in any other environment.

  19. #19
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    You realize that this thread is about crossdressing, right?

    Well, you can find what you find, it's a free country. I would like to think part of this forum is expressing one's opinion even if it might not be the same as the next person's opinion or even the majority opinion. It would be pointless if everybody just agreed with everybody else.

    And if you think one cannot lose a job for crossdressing, you are incredibly naïve. One might be protected in some government or union jobs, but outside of that, there is little protection unless the company listed your reason for termination as "crossdressing". Once you walk away from your keyboard, you find that the world is a cold hard place. Crossdressing can be disruptive in the workplace and it can drive customers away. If that happens, you have to stop or you have to go.

  20. #20
    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    There are a lot of opinions on this topic. Many of the responses are from fear. Other factors are comfort levels. Not many CD are comfortable presenting in the light of day amongst co- workers.

    First you need to know the company you work for and their policies. Second you have to feel comfortable in the ways you would like present and the clothing. Last you need the self confidence to own what you are doing.

    I own my business and worked part time for the local County vo tech. For many years I went to work daily with pierced hoops, colored nail polish, eyeliner, mascara and eye shadow. Various women's tops and slacks. I got asked many times what was up. I would own it. Day I enjoy what I wear and it makes me feel good. I never had an issue with employees, clients, nor the school administration or fellow instructors.

    If it's something you need to do to express who you are. Then by all means explore how to get it done.
    Isha would be a valuable resource. She had taken that leap to presenting at work how she feels that particular day.
    "When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes

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  21. #21
    Platinum Member Shelly Preston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaleWarning View Post
    I am a strongly heterosexual MtF crossdresser, who is still in the closet. I have no desire to transition, or even present as a female. In my ideal world, I would simply be allowed to wear whatever articles of clothing I felt like, regardless of which section of the clothing store they were originally purchased from. Of course, in a work situation, they would have to be appropriate for the job I do.
    Your employer may well have a dress code. Also this may depend on the job you do.

    I work for an organisation which operates under the auspices of a London Borough, but which will shortly switch to being a charitable trust. The organisation has a robust (at least on paper) Equality and Diversity policy in place. The term “transgendered” appears every time it speaks about treating people equally.
    The policy is fine but as always the devil is in the detail. As has been said it depends on there opinion of what constitutes a transgendered person.
    I have a fixed term contract which runs till the end of the decade, when my work visa expires. I expect to apply for and be granted permanent residence at that point, and suppose that my employment will then become permanent.

    I am entering my umpteenth childhood and am toying with the idea of testing this policy. So here is an open-ended question, to which I invite intelligent responses …

    How would you suggest I out myself at work?

    I don't see an easy way this can work unless you intend living full time as a woman. If you are really intending to test this policy, your first step is to speak to HR
    Shelly

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  22. #22
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    I've read the postings to your query. Without any elaboration of why you want to do this I too am wondering "Why?" If you a straight MtF cross dresser, who does not want to appear as a woman, I am guessing you want to wear women's clothing rather than men? If that is the case, then I'd check with your HR department. Most of the issues I always see with relation to sexuality in the workplace is gay/lesbian and transsexual issues. In the area I live in I've never read or heard of a man wearing women's clothing to work just to wear women's clothing to work.

    I just wonder what you expect to gain from "just" wearing women's clothing without appearing as a woman. Again, check with human resources. If there are no gender identity issues to fall back upon, maybe your actions would be considered a "distraction" in the workplace. As a "recreational" cross dresser I would never consider going to work attired as a woman.

  23. #23
    Diva AbigailJordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    You realize that this thread is about crossdressing, right?
    Yes I realise that, you do realise that this thread is about what somebody else wants and not what you think they should want right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    Well, you can find what you find, it's a free country. I would like to think part of this forum is expressing one's opinion even if it might not be the same as the next person's opinion or even the majority opinion. It would be pointless if everybody just agreed with everybody else.
    Oh absolutely hunny, which is why my response to you said that "I find" rather than "that is". I was merely pointing out that my point of view differs, just as advice differs from instruction, same principle

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    And if you think one cannot lose a job for crossdressing, you are incredibly naïve. One might be protected in some government or union jobs, but outside of that, there is little protection unless the company listed your reason for termination as "crossdressing". Once you walk away from your keyboard, you find that the world is a cold hard place. Crossdressing can be disruptive in the workplace and it can drive customers away. If that happens, you have to stop or you have to go.
    What I was saying, is that if you adhere to any applicable dress code, then the company has no room for any kind of disciplinary procedure. I totally understand that some companies will try to find a "legal" reason to get rid of you because they don't accept your right to dress, but then those kind of companies will just as soon find a reason to get rid of anyone they don't like.

    You have made an assumption that the OP is in a customer facing role, which I think is highly unlikely due to the fact that he wishes to "gender blend" rather than present en femme. I know how hard and cold the world can be, but I for one am proud to show my face in that world and be counted as one who doesn't scrape and bow to what traditional society dictates. This kind of situation is not just about one person in one job, it's about everyones right to be who they are and not be judged for it. Every person who supports the "hide it and say nothing" mentality pushes back the struggle to be accepted.

    As for crossdressing being disruptive in the workplace, I really don't see how what one is wearing would cause disruption, after all, we've all seen the GG's who dress "inappropriately" for work, we've all known that guy who seemingly cannot afford new cloths and always looks like a bargain bin reject.. yes these people occasion comment, but rarely are they considered to be a disruptive influence. I would expect a certain amount of initial "gossip" etc, but once that has died away, people are generally far more accepting than some people think.

  24. #24
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    When I was working I had to wear a uniform but incorporated non male jewelery or had my nails painted.
    On Fridays if I went in around noon I wore girls jeans and tennis shoes. No one said a word.
    I wasn't "out" at work but a few office ladies I came in contact with asked questions so I let them know a bit about me and they were cool with it.
    If they gossiped about it I don't know I never had any repercussions over it.
    Was I pushing the boundaries? Sure I was because being a commercial truck driver is pretty much a testosterone filled occupation.
    My point is go slow incorporate little things here and there to let people get used to it.
    If you go in make a huge scene like if women can wear a skirt to work why can't I argument you are asking for a boat load of trouble.
    You will be branded as a trouble maker and being a distraction to the workforce.
    Those two things will get you fired whether you have a contract or not. If then you pull the I'm TG card after you get fired good luck with that because being TG wasn't the problem, you were fired over being a trouble maker and disrupting the workforce.

    Totally agree with the comment don't shit where you eat or don't bite the hand that feeds you.
    Last edited by Tracii G; 07-15-2015 at 12:45 PM.
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  25. #25
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    Gale, a warning....

    Think of the consequences, do it crefully and thoughtfully.

    Thinking about it...... Forget it.

    Why do you feel a need to do it?
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

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