Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 76

Thread: How would you suggest I out myself at work?

  1. #51
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    583
    With so many other places to "express himself", it blows my mind that someone would jeopardize their job and their income and their reputation, by expressing themselves at their place of employment. Your job is where you go to work for someone, and earn your living, not to express yourself! It appears I am not the only one who feels that way. I would invite the original poster to get back to us and let us know how it all worked out, both now and six months from now.

    Umm WRT to the OP that was not the burning question asked by Gale but your interpretation . . . her question was about "how would we advise about outing herself at work (see below). That is what people (myself included) responded to.
    If someone asked you the best way to jump off a bridge, would you try to tell them. Or would you tactfully suggest that it might not be such a good idea?

    Playing devils advocate for a minute here. If one of my strongly male employees showed up in a dress, I might think he was setting me up for a lawsuit, or trying to get a reaction out of me. In any case, it's his decision to make, and live with. I'm done here.
    Last edited by MelanieAnne; 07-18-2015 at 04:36 PM.

  2. #52
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,378
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    With so many other places to "express himself", it blows my mind that someone would jeopardize their job and their income and their reputation, by expressing themselves at their place of employment.
    Some people have stronger feelings about the need for self-expression than others. Obviously, I would urge tremendous caution, but it's people like the OP (potentially) and our very own Isha who have the guts and courage to start changing things, and I admire them tremendously for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    If someone asked you the best way to jump off a bridge, would you try to tell them.
    That's not analogous at all. Millions of people were dresses, skirts, nail polish and earrings to work every day and live to tell the tale. Not so much for bridge-jumpers.

    Just because you are too afraid to do this, you shouldn't come down hard on the OP. If she (sorry, I'm not sure which pronoun OP prefers) has the bravery to do this and the willingness to take the risk after carefully weighing the options, then that's incredibly wonderful.

  3. #53
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    3,482
    I think people here who are advising her not to are sincere in wanting to protect her. I don't know how it is in the UK, but over here jobs are hard to come by, especially jobs that pay an actual livable wage. If you have a good job, I'd definitely err on the side of caution and protect your job as much as possible, and avoid anything that may harm your job and your reputation. Even if they can't fire you, your coworkers and your businesses' customers may not like it and can cause you grief. Believe me, I am not unsympathetic, I am also a guy who likes to wear skirts etc. and I understand the desire to do so; I can dress how I like at work because I own my own business and work with trans people, but for most of my working life I would not have dared do this when I was working for someone else and where I was dependent on someone or some faceless group of people for my survival. It is not wrong to want to dress at work as you like. The problem is the risk involved, and the potential consequences.

    Laws and policies are nice but it doesn't mean it will protect you if they can find a loophole. Murder is illegal, and yet people get away with it all of the time. If they can't fire you for dressing, they can find something else or make something up you can't disprove.

    If you are bent on dressing at work, I would talk to the HR department, but remember... HR is not your friend, they work for your company and are looking out for them (they were once more accurately called the "personnel department", before someone somewhere decided to give it a more touchy-freely name.) You might be pegged as a possible liability in the future, officially or otherwise. Be careful.
    Last edited by Vickie_CDTV; 07-18-2015 at 09:06 PM.

  4. #54
    Gone to live my life
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6,554
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post

    If someone asked you the best way to jump off a bridge, would you try to tell them. Or would you tactfully suggest that it might not be such a good idea?

    Playing devils advocate for a minute here. If one of my strongly male employees showed up in a dress, I might think he was setting me up for a lawsuit, or trying to get a reaction out of me. In any case, it's his decision to make, and live with. I'm done here.
    Again, I don't get what you are trying to imply . . . I did not say "do it" I provided the OP with an opinion on how she could go about discussing with her HR folks the potential of dressing in the manner she wishes to based on my own experience (as she requested). I never once tried to sell her on the idea or imply she "must do it". Goodness sake . . . read the replies before you launch with an unfounded and to be honest careless accusation.

    Isha

  5. #55
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    583
    First of all, to you folks with an agenda, you can stop referring to the poster as "she".
    In the very first sentence of the initial post, the poster states that "he" is strongly heterosexual, and never intends to present as female!
    I am a strongly heterosexual MtF crossdresser, who is still in the closet. I have no desire to transition, or even present as a female.

  6. #56
    Little Mrs. Snarky! Nadine Spirit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,280
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    .... I'm done here.
    If that is so, then why this....

    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    First of all, to you folks with an agenda, you can stop referring to the poster as "she"...
    Lately you seem really hell bent on expressing your opinion here. Why? You said your peace. You said you were done. Why keep harping on it? Me thinks thou doth protest too much! Are you fearful of something? It sure seems like it. Are you jealous of those of us who are willing to express ourselves in the sacred place of work?

    I totally get it, that we all of have our own opinions. It just seems as though you seem really intent that we all need to adopt your opinion as of late. Odd. On this one thread, 9 of the responses are yours. Odd. Why are you so invested in this particular discussion?


    To the OP - I stick with my opinion. I think that for some of the other dressers who have lived their whole lives hiding in the closet, they have done so because they picture the world as a terrifying place and other people as ones to be suspect of and afraid of. Maybe if some of you start opening up a bit more you may well find the world to be different than what you suspect. This is coming from me, who at one time was totally closeted and is now almost totally out. And no, and I am not ever going to transition. I do not live full time. I cross dress and present as a woman as well as wear female items and present as a man. All while working, and in my personal life. And so far, I have been praised for being willing to be open and honest and trusting of my fellow humans.

    No one can make this choice for you. But keep in mind there are those of us who think they know what is out there and there are those of us who actually know what is out there.

  7. #57
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Old Hampshire, UK
    Posts
    5,272
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    First of all, to you folks with an agenda, you can stop referring to the poster as "she".
    In the very first sentence of the initial post, the poster states that "he" is strongly heterosexual, and never intends to present as female!
    It seems as if Melanie is mistakenly conflating 'heterosexual' with 'not-transsexual' (or at least 'not identifying female') - which is a surprising belief for anyone who's been here any length of time. I'm heterosexual, identify male and yet I occasionally present as female - at those times and on this board, I prefer to be addressed as 'she' - it would feel strongly incongruous otherwise. Not only that, but it is the accepted form of etiquette here.

    Now, the OP quite clearly indicated they were aware of some of the potential issues regarding coming out and stated a very clear question:

    I am entering my umpteenth childhood and am toying with the idea of testing this policy. So here is an open-ended question, to which I invite intelligent responses …

    How would you suggest I out myself at work?
    Not: Should I, or If I, but HOW?

    So to ensure an 'intelligent response' please make sure you address the question...

    Katey
    Moderator

  8. #58
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Living in the present
    Posts
    2,245
    Three pages! This is probably a record for a post by me.

    I'm not going to get embroiled in the arguments. I have described myself and my intentions accurately and succinctly.

    On Friday I wore the tie-dye T-shirt as planned. Everyone recognised that it was not my usual attire (usually jeans and industrial-strength tops in shades of blue or black). The shirt was gaudy, in shades of red, white and green.

    Comments included, "Very Glastonbury!" and "You look like an aging hippy", to which I replied, "I remember 1967 very well."

    Friday marked the start of the summer holidays and for the next four weeks there will be very few people at work and no students. It is clear to me that my options for stretching the limits carefully are limited. Probably only tops and perhaps jewellery. And not every day.

    Remember, my aim is to test the authenticity of our Equality and Diversity Policy. It's a social issue.

    Thanks for all your comments.

    BTW - I prefer to be referred to as "he". Please respect my preference.

  9. #59
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,189
    I see! It's an experiment of sorts. I can understand that. Good luck!
    Reine

  10. #60
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    583
    It seems as if Melanie is mistakenly conflating 'heterosexual' with 'not-transsexual' (or at least 'not identifying female') - which is a surprising belief for anyone who's been here any length of time. I'm heterosexual, identify male and yet I occasionally present as female - at those times and on this board, I prefer to be addressed as 'she' - it would feel strongly incongruous otherwise. Not only that, but it is the accepted form of etiquette here.
    Yes, I think most rational people would equate heterosexual with not-transsexual.

    Remember, my aim is to test the authenticity of our Equality and Diversity Policy. It's a social issue.
    I said in my first post, that I felt the poster was testing the limits.

    BTW - I prefer to be referred to as "he". Please respect my preference
    I rest my case! Carry on.
    Last edited by MelanieAnne; 07-19-2015 at 10:02 PM.

  11. #61
    Careful I bite <3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by GaleWarning View Post
    Three pages! This is probably a record for a post by me.

    I'm not going to get embroiled in the arguments. I have described myself and my intentions accurately and succinctly.

    On Friday I wore the tie-dye T-shirt as planned. Everyone recognised that it was not my usual attire (usually jeans and industrial-strength tops in shades of blue or black). The shirt was gaudy, in shades of red, white and green.

    Comments included, "Very Glastonbury!" and "You look like an aging hippy", to which I replied, "I remember 1967 very well."

    Friday marked the start of the summer holidays and for the next four weeks there will be very few people at work and no students. It is clear to me that my options for stretching the limits carefully are limited. Probably only tops and perhaps jewellery. And not every day.

    Remember, my aim is to test the authenticity of our Equality and Diversity Policy. It's a social issue.

    Thanks for all your comments.

    BTW - I prefer to be referred to as "he". Please respect my preference.
    I'm happy to see you didn't get caught up in a lot of the emotional responses. It seems like you are comfortable bucking the system a bit, just be careful. I'm not sure what your life situation is but if you're ok with the risks go for it. The risks are real though. A lot of employers are more concerned about their time and the companies financials than your emotions.

    A lot of the stuff you say like "wearing what you want no matter what department it came from" rings somewhat true for me as well, and the Trans movement has kind of leapfrogged TS concerns over other gender non-conforming lifestyles.

  12. #62
    Gone to live my life
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    6,554
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    Yes, I think most rational people would equate heterosexual with not-transsexual


    I rest my case! Carry on.

    Yup MelanieAnne . . . You are the winner!

    I guess the next time an OP asks for an opinion on something, we'll just run it by you to make sure: (A) We are allowed to respond; and (B) It meets with your seal of approval.

    A bit of information though, I am a heterosexual genetic male who happens to identify as a woman sometimes and as a man other times and when I am presenting as a woman, I prefer the appropriate gender pronouns as do many (including quite a few CDers). The OP never stated on the outset "HE" prefers either so common convention here is to use "she" unless the OP specifically says "I prefer he" and since the OP is sporting a female name, I went with "she" and not the generic statement.

    "I think most rational people would equate heterosexual with not-transsexual" . . . HUH? You mean you can't be a trans unless you are gay? It might surprise you that there are probably quite a few trans woman (I know a couple) who liked "women" going in and still like women to this day.

    But then again . . . you are the winner . . . So CARRY ON.

    Isha

  13. #63
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,378
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    Yes, I think most rational people would equate heterosexual with not-transsexual.
    They'd be wrong, then. Sheesh, I can't believe someone posted that on this forum. Gender Identity 101 teaches that gender identity and sexual orientation are two completely separate and unrelated things.

  14. #64
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    7,406
    Talk about thread drift ................

    BTW: There seems to be a lot of nastiness towards other members being expressed here. We all come from different places, both physically and mentally and there are no "black and white" answers. It should be possible to disagree with someone without attempting to put them down.
    Last edited by Krisi; 07-20-2015 at 08:32 AM.

  15. #65
    The 100th sheep GaleWarning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Living in the present
    Posts
    2,245
    Well, on Wednesday evening I was at the girlfriend's home when she asked me to get her a new battery for her watch. "Sure", I said. I removed my watch and put hers on my wrist. No comment from the girlfriend. On the way out the door I put on her sandals, almost androgynous-looking. The rest of my attire was male - shorts and a t-shirt, knobbly knees and hairy legs on display.

    I walked about 200 metres to the shop which sells the batteries. I spent about 20 minutes there, talking about the Vietnam War with the Vietnamese man who served me. Very interesting! On the way back, I called in at a supermarket and bought some stuff.

    I felt quite comfortable and no-one said anything or registered any sign at all. When I got back, the girlfriend made me take off her sandals. She was slightly uncomfortable. She thanked me for getting the battery.

    On Friday I wore a cotton blouse, which the girlfriend had recently bought for me. It has a round collar and a mathematical design in black and white on it, which is quite fashionable right now. Cargo trousers, shoes and socks, and a light windbreaker completed my outfit. It was raining and cold for this time of year.

    So no worries on the way to work, and while signing in. None of my colleagues commented when I removed the windbreaker. The day passed with all of us exchanging pleasantries and seemingly no problems. But I sensed an unease from some of my colleagues, who usually rag me and I them. Very little banter on Friday.

    I'll be dressed in my usual clothing on Monday. We shall see if things return to normal.

    (BTW - I am not worried about the equality and diversity thing any more - several interesting things have come to light in the last few days, which cannot be written about on this site.)

  16. #66
    Adyson Saikotsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    484
    Ladies, Gentlemen,
    Can we maybe calm down a little? This is becoming really ugly. We're better than this.

    Anyway, as for the Original Post, I would recommend against outing yourself at work. However, if you are still intent on it, talk with HR first. Talk with your boss first too. Take it slow and carefully consider your options.

  17. #67
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    7,406
    many have suggested that you not mix crossdressing and your job. Others have pointed out that you didn't ask if you should, you asked how. Others got sidetracked and started insulting each other.

    If you choose to go ahead and "out" yourself at work, you might as well do it all at once like pulling off a Band-Aid. Get up early enough, get a good shave and makeup job, put on your forms, padding and wig and a dress or blouse and skirt appropriate for your job and just waltz in like you own the place. It might be uncomfortable for a while but that's better than just confusing people by wearing a combination of male and female clothes. Have a new name ready like Jenner did.

    Remember though, you'll have to do this every day and you might have to shave and touch up your makeup in the middle of the day.

  18. #68
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,334
    Quote Originally Posted by AbigailJordan View Post
    You mean he might end up having to face all the same issues that women in the workplace currently face?

    And maybe.. it's possible that work is actually the place he feels safest.. maybe his co-workers are prominent people in his life and maybe he's considering this move because he wants to come out in that way. There is no right and wrong way to come out.

    And the OP has stated they wish to do this, and asked for advice on how to go about it but the majority of responses on here have nothing to do with advising him on what he wants, but telling/advising/strongly suggesting he doesn't do what he's already stated he wants to do. Opinions are fine people, but they are much better received when asked for.. on this occasion advice is more appropriate than opinions.
    Abigail - One of the benefits of this site is that we can offer comments to support and help others. Frequently, a member expresses a desire to do something and others who might have experience or education or training will offer their thoughts and recommendations which might be different than the member expects to hear. Most people here want to help each other - not attack each other. Maybe you should spend less time criticizing well-intentioned opinions of others and think about your own contentious remarks and opinions before you attack others.

  19. #69
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Usually, wearing a skirt somewhere
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post

    If you choose to go ahead and "out" yourself at work, you might as well do it all at once like pulling off a Band-Aid. Get up early enough, get a good shave and makeup job, put on your forms, padding and wig and a dress or blouse and skirt appropriate for your job and just waltz in like you own the place. It might be uncomfortable for a while but that's better than just confusing people by wearing a combination of male and female clothes. Have a new name ready like Jenner did.

    Remember though, you'll have to do this every day and you might have to shave and touch up your makeup in the middle of the day.
    Why would he want to do all that? Maybe, like myself, he doesn't want to appear as a woman, he just wants to be able to wear some clothes from the women's side of the aisle. I have been doing that for about the last 3 months. I'd say about half the people I interact with briefly during the day don't even notice that I'm wearing a skirt instead of shorts. Longer interactions I can sometimes detect a point where they realise, and mostly it's sort of "Skirt? oh, shrug, OK," and they they carry on. Sometimes they are constantly glancing at the skirt and away, as if they can't quite believe it, or maybe they are trying to come up with a question that won''t be considered offensive. I'd actually like it if they just straight out asked. You're right, I think, in that it does confuse people, but as long as there is no problem with my employers, and it doesn't impact my sales, ( which are up, by the way ) who cares? My GF is cool with it, and that is by far the the most important point for me. This is me, being me, and I feel better for it.
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  20. #70
    Member HelenR2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    West Sussex
    Posts
    222
    My, (limited), experience tells me that a British Council, especially in a city like London, will already have policies in place for transgendered people and are probably more fair and understanding than most companies. Officials in their HR department, or whatever they bloody call it now, will quite possibly have got their job because they are gay or transgendered.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  21. #71
    GG ReineD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Samsara
    Posts
    21,189
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    Yes, I think most rational people would equate heterosexual with not-transsexual.
    MelanieAnne, the word "sexual" is used in two different contexts here. Heterosexual refers to a person's sexual preference (who they are attracted to). But transsexual refers to needing to transition from one sex to another, regardless of the TS's sexual preference. The "sexual" part of Transsexual refers to their male or female sexual anatomy.

    So just as a heterosexual can be a man or a woman, a transsexual can be attracted to men or women.
    Reine

  22. #72
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,728
    Quote Originally Posted by MelanieAnne View Post
    Because we don't live in a perfect world!
    Well if every single closet case in the whole world would come out one day, the entire world would skooch just a little closer to perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
    www.badtranny.com

  23. #73
    Pooh Bear Judith96a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    945
    GaleWarning,
    Re outing yourself at work while on a fixed term contract at the end of which you hope to achieve permanent resident status etc.... I wouldn't, not if you want your permanent resident status confirmed! 'Robust' policies notwithstanding, if you make yourself "an issue" you could well discover that your application mysteriously "goes wrong". All it takes is for someone to write a less than convincing reference etc. Decide what your priorities are!
    Sorry to rain on your parade but better safe than sorry!

  24. #74
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    583
    Posted by Dianne S
    They'd be wrong, then. Sheesh, I can't believe someone posted that on this forum. Gender Identity 101 teaches that gender identity and sexual orientation are two completely separate and unrelated things.
    Posted by ReineD
    MelanieAnne, the word "sexual" is used in two different contexts here. Heterosexual refers to a person's sexual preference (who they are attracted to). But transsexual refers to needing to transition from one sex to another, regardless of the TS's sexual preference. The "sexual" part of Transsexual refers to their male or female sexual anatomy.

    So just as a heterosexual can be a man or a woman, a transsexual can be attracted to men or women.
    What does any of the above, have to do with the original post? The original poster clearly states he has no issues about sexual identity or orientation. I repeat, this is not a TG issue!
    I am a strongly heterosexual MtF crossdresser, who is still in the closet. I have no desire to transition, or even present as a female.
    Last edited by MelanieAnne; 08-07-2015 at 10:00 PM.

  25. #75
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    1,378
    MelanieAnne, you cut out context. I was replying to a post of yours (which seems to have been deleted). You wrote something like "heterosexual != transsexual"

    On one level, it's trivially true... the two words are not the same. However, I think most reasonable people would have read it as "heterosexual implies that you're not transsexual" which is simply not the case. The OP unfortunately inserted the "heterosexual" adjective for reasons unknown to me, because it makes no difference at all to the original posting.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Check out these other hot web properties:
Catholic Personals | Jewish Personals | Millionaire Personals | Unsigned Artists | Crossdressing Relationship
BBW Personals | Latino Personals | Black Personals | Crossdresser Chat | Crossdressing QA
Biker Personals | CD Relationship | Crossdressing Dating | FTM Relationship | Dating | TG Relationship


The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

Browse Crossdressers By State