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Thread: Has Jenner gone too far?

  1. #1
    Member Ilsa's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
    Central Part of the Empire State

    Has Jenner gone too far?

    I'm beginning to believe that Caitlyn has taken her transition to the point of exploitation and if it wasn't bad enough being associated with the Kardashians and her own upcoming show it has now come to accepting an ESPY award for courage. Perhaps if the award was given in later years after we have seen how she's endured the ridicule and criticism of the life changing event I might accept this. But being so close to her coming out, the fan fair and paparrazi I think the presentation of the award is just seizing the moment for her and mostly ESPN. It's been nearly forty years since the Olympics and the award was given not for what happened then but for what has happened most recently. If Jenner had come out about her gender conflicts at that time the award might have been more warranted: 1. Because he at the time was the world's greatest athlete and 2. The seventies were a less tolerant time than they are now.

    I live a quiet life as a crossdresser and enjoy my time as Ilsa and on occasion will venture out into a public place and hope I will be tolerated for who I am. I try not to bring attention to myself by being flamboyant and announcing it to the world and for the most part the people on this forum also live a quiet dignified existence as their other selves.

    My concern is if this particular story will bring more of a negative light upon the crossdressing/trans community in the eyes of others rather than a positive one. I fear it's gotten to the point where Ms. Jenner is saying - Hey look at me, I'm an ex Olympic Gold medalist from 1976, was on the Wheaties box and now I'm a woman.

    Jenner was never a modest character in anything she did and she certainly isn't showing it now. I was hoping that she would treat her transition with dignity and modesty, but I guess I was wrong. I'm just praying that all this glitz and glamour doesn't have a bad reflection on the rest of us.

    As always,


    P.S. Maybe all of us should be presented with an ESPY!
    Last edited by Ilsa; 07-18-2015 at 11:53 AM. Reason: bad spelling!

  2. #2
    Gold Member ~Joanne~'s Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    I have to agree with you. She certainly doesn't deserve any awards, she has done nothing to help the TG cause other that get some spotlight and like you said, whether it's good or bad remains to be seen.
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  3. #3
    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
    Southern Ontario
    So I'm not sure how you can say she has done nothing for the "TG Cause". Is awareness not enough? Is bringing the concerns of the trans community to the forefront of the media not enough?

    She is spreading awareness at a level that has never been seen before. I say that is enough!!

    As for the ESPY award, I have no problem with it....

  4. #4
    Aspiring drama queen Isabella Ross's Avatar
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    Aug 2014
    Wow. You two are incredibly jaded. I don't always agree with the hoopla and fanfare, or the fact that the media has really confused the issue by suggesting every transgendered person wants to transition, but she's done more for our cause than you will probably ever realize. Yesterday on the golf course, someone brought her up...and then our foursome discussed it at length (god, if they only knew who they were golfing Bottom said he had a hard time "getting it", but the other two said that they accept her, respect her, and have learned a lot about TG as a result of the entire thing. And one even said, "She's pretty damn good looking!" I agreed. One more thing: at my nearest city, the theme of this year's pride parade is transgenderism...something that probably wouldn't have happened without Caitlyn bringing this to top of mind. I think you need to view the big picture.

  5. #5
    between worlds... steftoday's Avatar
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    May 2008
    Gone too far?
    If what she's doing brings discussion and change, she has my gratitude. Personally, I plan on watching her documentary as well.

    I really don't give a rat's ass about the other "famous" part of her family at all, though.
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  6. #6
    Junior Member Stephania's Avatar
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    Oct 2013
    1 hr west of Austin
    She's not getting the award for TG, she's getting it for her Olympic years. It's really a shame when even the TG community doesn't educate themselves on what the award is actually for. Yes, she does deserve it.

  7. #7
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    Oct 2014
    I think what she's doing is good, it starts conversations and brings credibility I think (Bruce Jenner was a highly respected super jock after all). That said I don't disagree with Ilsa in that it may bring some unwanted attention our way individually, even if it's good attention. I honestly don't really like interacting with the 'Gen pop' and prefer solitude most often 😑

  8. #8
    TX & MN
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    We need to stand up and be upfront with the world. Until we do, we will never be accepted. Caitlyn Jenner has done this, and I, for one, thank her for it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    Sep 2010
    Central NJ
    It's Caitlyn. She was an Olympic champion and Kardashisn circus aside is a celebrity. Transition is an extremely public process. There is no possible way she could have transitioned without the fanfare. She reached a point in her life when living as a male was no longer an option. Hero's and courage mean many things to different people. There may be a young teen or adult struggling with their own gender identity. Caitlyn's emergence could give that person the confidence and over come fear to take the steps necessary to achieve inner peace.

    It amazes me how critical those that live in closet can be of those that live their lives authentically in public. What about those of us that don't have her money for surgical procedures and have to live as who we are with many male facial features and physiology. Should we be criticised for casting a bad reflection on the "Trans" comity.
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  10. #10
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    May 2008
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    Caitlyn will be a polarizing figure for a long time. The haters will hate what she represents and those in our camp will (for the most part, apparently) rally around her. It is those who are in between who are benefiting and continue to benefit from the life lesson she provides. If the most masculine of men with such accomplishments is trans, who can question ANY of us???

    Bottom line, there is certainly debate on who "should" get the courage award. I doubt Caitlyn lobbied for it in any way. But I think there is a social aspect of the award which makes her a natural. What better time to give it than during the acute phase of her transition?

    I for one look forward to seeing tonights show and hope the fallout afterwards is minimal, if any.
    Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
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  11. #11
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Jun 2011
    SF Bay Area
    Well then, with all due respect I hardly think condemnation from a closeted CD is very worrisome to those that face the slings and arrows of transition.

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but if you think it's easy to do what Caitlyn did, then you may need to open up that closet and let some fresh air in. She has all of the resources a TranSitioner could want and she STILL couldn't screw up the courage until she was 65.

    Do you honestly think one of the most famous athletes in the world could undergo a gender transition without any media coverage? I can pretty much guarantee that if she had been trying to stay undercover with this the exact same peanut gallery would be yammering on about "what is she ashamed of?" "why is she hiding?" "she's making us all look bad cuz she won't own it!"

    So Caitlyn is dealing with a public transition differently than you would. Guess what, so did I, and so did Stef, and so did Kaitlyn, and so did April, and so is Shasta, etc etc. We who lay our cards on the table, and bet everything we have tend to do things our own way. Caitlyn Jenner has done more to bring this issue into the limelight than anyone, and just because she doesn't speak specifically for me, doesn't mean she shouldn't have a voice. If she would have had the seeds to do this when I was 12, my life may have been completely different, so I am quite certain that countless very confused little boys and girls are a little bit less confused thanks to her.

    She's my people, and she has my support.
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  12. #12
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    VERY well said Melissa!! 👍

  13. #13
    Senior Member Hell on Heels's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Monterey Ca.
    Hell-o Ilsa
    I have to agree with Sara Jessica, with all the cameras following
    Caitlyn, it was only a matter of time before she was photographed and outed.
    She really had no choice in my opinion. And don't think I believe for a single
    minuet that you wouldn't capitalIze on your fame if you were in Cait's position.

    Sorry Stephania, but your wrong. The Arthur Ashe Courage Award is given to people
    who's courage transcends sports.
    It has been awarded to 4 men that died in a plane crash on 911.
    And Nelson Mandela has received one as well.
    Caitlyn is receiving hers for the courage she has shown in coming out to the world
    as a transgender woman.
    I am interested to see how she handles her show, she states in the trailer for it that
    she hopes to do some good. I'm sure she's seen plenty of messages, tweets , etc. about
    how she has the deep pockets to have the safest, smoothest transition than most other people.
    Will she address this issue? Maybe?
    Much Love,
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  14. #14
    Aspiring Member
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    It is still evident that the tallest tree catches the most wind.

    Had my wheaties this morning

  15. #15
    Silver Member paulaprimo's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    new york
    i can agree, at first it did seem kinda early to announce such an award for Caitlyn, but after listening to her speech
    tonight, which I think she nailed btw, I think she is most deserving and she will be a huge benefit for the trans community.
    I cheered for bruce during the 76 games and i'm cheering for Caitlyn now...
    Last edited by paulaprimo; 07-16-2015 at 12:32 AM.

  16. #16
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    How is she NOT courageous? She came out and is a public figure. She can only help the TG community in that she has already explained that cross dressing and transexulaism are unrelated.

  17. #17
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    Exactly Jennifer, how can anyone
    Disagree with her courage! We're all human regardless of income right!?
    Last edited by Katey888; 07-16-2015 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Consecutive posts merged - please use edit post to add to existing post rather than adding a successive post...

  18. #18
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    I agree 100% with Ilsa on everything she says. An Epsy award,.... c'mon! political correctness to the umpteenth degree, a lot of public false hero worship of oh look at her,..... so what . let her live her life in peace but please Caitlin , don't milk it for the cameras of the TV show. Its not fair and just to the thousands of other TG community members who live their lives and some suffer quietly. So much for the flag waving.

  19. #19
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Caitlyn: Admire her or resent her as u will.

    But, can ANYONE say she hasn't created an awareness and discussion about trans like never before, can they!?
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  20. #20
    Aspiring Member grace7777's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
    Phoenix, AZ
    I do not think there is any way Caitlyn could have kept it quiet.

    The way I see it Caitlyn blows a lot of stereotypes of the Transgendered community right out of the water. Even with all the money she has it takes a lot of courage to transition with the press following your every move. I do not worship Caitlyn, but I respect her a great deal.

  21. #21
    How did that happen ? Samantha2015's Avatar
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    Apr 2015
    I'm not TS or TG so I can't even comment on the issues they deal with. I did watch Caitlyn's speech on the ESPY show and I thought it was heartfelt and sincere. If her story can help one person who might be considering hurting themselves to reconsider,
    is that not worth it ??
    I think it's still too early in her transition to judge what her impact, positive or negative, will be on the TG community. I think the public is still trying to come to terms with her transition as well.
    She did look very pretty I thought. Must be nice to have hair,makeup & wardrobe artists work on you.
    Last edited by Samantha2015; 07-15-2015 at 11:23 PM.

  22. #22
    BEING YOUnique is AWESOME Princess Chantal's Avatar
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    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    I have a great appreciation and respect for Caitlyn. I find that she tries to redirect the attention off of her and her personal struggles to the important issues that face the transgender community (many in which she was lucky enough to not have to face).

  23. #23
    Junior Member Alexis08's Avatar
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    May 2015
    Stockholm, Sweden
    To me, she hasn't gone far. She help raising awareness about TG more than others did and definitely deserves the award.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Suzanne F's Avatar
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    Mar 2013
    San Francisco Area
    I can't believe she is being criticized here. Of course you are entitled to your opinion but it astounds me. Do you realize she was standing up in a room full of jocks? Here she was out in front of the sports world. Not a historically accepting group of people.

    I don't agree with everything Caitlyn does. Nor would I want to. However, I am out in the world as a trans woman every day. I don't want to hide anymore. In about 3 months I will face my final hurdle when I come out to the home office. At least my employer will have a vague understanding of what I am talking about thanks to Caitlyn.

    I know that many here like to point out the differences between cross dressers and Trans women and even dispute who is TG. I would like to know one person here who has never felt shameful about their femininity. Then ask yourself where that came from. Then thank Caitlyn for having the courage to stand up at a damn Espy award ceremony as a woman. I am so tired of the attempt by some here to cling to their damn male privilege. If you are that male you ought to be fully out fighting for the rest of us TG people's right to live authentic lives!


  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilsa View Post
    I try not to bring attention to myself by being flamboyant and announcing it to the world and for the most part the people on this forum also live a quiet dignified existence as their other selves.

    I'm just praying that all this glitz and glamour doesn't have a bad reflection on the rest of us.
    Actually, the willingness of some to keep quiet and not say anything that might make cisgender folks uncomfortable is what makes us all look bad.

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