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Thread: Has Jenner gone too far?

  1. #101
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    The members of this site range from plain vanilla cross dressers, like me, to post operative transsexuals. So, there is a lot of like minded individuals here. Has Caitlyn Jenner really done anything to promote acceptance the "cause," whatever that may be? My family and friends think she is nothing more than a media show. She does not represent transsexuals any more than any particular 65 year old woman represents all women. They point out she has the money to transform or sculpt herself into whatever Bruce thought he could become. Most of my friends and acquaintances don't consider her and the attention paid to her anymore than another blip on the otherwise dull world of sensational media. How can Caitlyn with all her money and status and hooked up with media stars really represent transsexuals?

    Now I belong to a support group that has nothing to do with sexuality, cross dressing or otherwise. One of my friends has a grandson who is in high school and is suffering through the turmoil of identity crisis. To listen to the reports of him going through life trying to discover who he is, and, the loss of friends is terrible. The kid is in the real world, while everyone I know thinks Caitlyn is in the abstract world.

    Yes, Caitlyn has brought attention to the issue. However, the real people I associate with thought more highly of the several recent news reports of kids, boys and girls, who are single digit kids trying to live their lives as they see themselves. And, of course how their parents deal with the issue.

    Of course, Caitlyn does not represent a person like me, a plain vanilla cross dresser. A guy, who will remain a guy, who likes to wear women's clothing. All my friends truly recognize and accept transsexual men and women, although not really understanding how this occurs, but, still cannot understand cross dressing.

    I'm just hoping Caitlyn does not have a reality television show.
    Last edited by Stephanie47; 07-19-2015 at 11:01 AM. Reason: spelling

  2. #102
    Non-binary/Questioning Mayo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie47 View Post
    I'm just hoping Caitlyn does not have a reality television show.
    She does now.

    Whether or not she is 'deserving' of this award is something I leave to other people to decide; I certainly would not deny that she (and anyone else who comes out as trans) needs to have a lot of courage to do so but, that said, she has a lot of privileges that many trans people don't and that will cushion many of the difficulties for her. Regardless, she is certainly generating positive conversations about trans issues, which is unequivocally a good thing. However, being rich and white means that she cannot (and should not) speak for those who do not share her privileges. I personally feel that Laverne Cox is probably a better spokesperson in general for the trans community in that she is more aware of issues related to privilege and intersectionality.

  3. #103
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    Isn't that the goal, to "successfully go stealth"? To be seen by society as a woman? To Live the life of a woman? To feel like a woman?
    Stealth is not for everyone. I try to be seen by society as a woman, but I make no secret of my trans status. I don't go around broadcasting it to strangers, but all my friends, family and colleagues know, it's on my personal web site, and I write transgender advocacy articles for an online magazine.

    My position is that I'm extremely lucky to have supportive family and friends and to live in very trans-tolerant place, which has made my transition incredibly easy to date. I owe it to others who have a much harder time to be out there and to be advocating for them.

  4. #104
    Silver Member Barbara Jo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    So basically you are acknowledging that the rumour you are spreading against Caitlyn Jenner came from unreliable Internet gossip and was then picked up by a British Media outlet that has such a tenuous link with the truth that if they reported that Tuesday comes between Monday and Wednesday anyone with half a brain would wonder when that stopped being true.


    No Chantal, this thread has always been about a few cross-dressers who hate Caitly Jenner for speaking up successfully about the plight of transsexuals. Then you obbject when some transsexuals take issue with what they are saying.
    Are you not assuming it is false in spite of the numerous sites which are reporting it?.
    As I said , I personally need more proof however, Cait has not really addressed it after all.
    Assuming one is innocent without all the facts is just as bad as assuming they are guilty without all the facts, is it not?

    Also, I do not I hate Cait as I have clearly stated things to the contrary.
    Last edited by Barbara Jo; 07-17-2015 at 03:00 PM. Reason: missing word
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  5. #105
    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara Jo View Post
    Are you not assuming it is false in spite of the numerous sites which are reporting it?.
    .
    Until it comes from a reputable, unbiased news source and not tabloid trash then absolutely I will consider it false...

    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    I have observed that many of the members here are just as bigoted as the people they complain about but bigoted in a different way.
    Bigoted? Really?? I would love to hear you elaborate on this....
    I'm outta here...

  6. #106
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    And remember, this is "crossdressers.com", not "transgender.com".
    Wow. You complain about factions within the community and then come up with that.

  7. #107
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    Isn't that the goal, to "successfully go stealth"?
    no the goal is to be who you are, a woman in the world, no stealth, not pretending. That would imply we are hiding who we are in public. Although it will never be 100%, all we want is to be us. There are factors that don't let many of us do that. Caitlyn's factor is she is a public figure and she will be scrutinized for every little move or action. Even here where people are already questioning her. Trial with out jury.

    Those of us who live the life know what she is going through in a small way. I don't see why people here are so critical. Let her actions prove or disprove her words.
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  8. #108
    Part time CD girl Lexi Moralas's Avatar
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    My feelings on this are bitter / sweet. Although caitlin Jenner's time in the media has fueled uncomfortable situations for me personally. I will say this , I don't think she has gone to far at all! It is great that we have this community and can all lean on one another for support . However I don't think she or any of us have a greater responibity to the cross dressing or TG community. We all have our own modivatons and goals in all aspects of our lives and our first respondibility is to ourselves. To me it seems like she is reaching for her own dreams ,to be the person she always wanted to be and what's wrong with that ? Can you imagine living all those years in that envoiorment.. Surrounded 24/7 by all those beautiful woman , and the fashion , make up , femininity and glamour that is wrapped up in the kardashian life style and not be able to get in on it. and pretend it didn't interest you. Hell it kills me to walk by Victoria secret or DSW and pretend I don't want everything in the window for myself. Lol
    I don't really have an oppinion on the award but she has shown an unbelievable amount of courage.
    For my own personal reasons I wish she would shut the hell up and go away.
    But the fact is its her journey and she has the right do what is right for her. I wish her all the best. No matter how many times I have to say " no honey just because Jenner secretly wanted to transition dosnt mean that I do "

    Ps . You have to admit she is gorgeous !

  9. #109
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisi View Post
    Isn't that the goal, to "successfully go stealth"? To be seen by society as a woman? To Live the life of a woman? To feel like a woman?
    LOL

    Yeah well, best laid plans and whatnot.

    That would be a goal of mine if it was at all possible. You see, what people who keep secrets don't understand is that the coming out process never really ends. The first year of transition is all about coming out. Hell in that first year you come out by walking out the door. It's a rough year. Gradually it gets better (for some of us) and then you find yourself in these blissful little 'stealth' moments. Then your co-worker mis-genders you (accidentally) and boom you're right back 'out'.

    Eventually if you're lucky you find a new job, and you're holding your breath because it seems like people don't 'know'. I feel a little bit weird about being in the closet again, but I guess it's better on this side right? It's been 3 years after all so maybe just maybe, I can leave my past behind. I never really thought it was possible but... oh crap, is that my old distribution rep? Jeez he's looking at me. Oh hey how ya doin? Yeah, I'm working here now, yeah, it's good to see you again. (as he's walking out the door with a group of my new colleagues) Well I guess that will be an interesting lunch.

    No worries about keeping that secret now. Hello world I'm out again!

    Before I transitioned, I had goals, and plans, and opinions, and feelings, ...and then I pulled the pin. Funny thing about a Tranny Grenade(tm), it tends to blow everything up.

    For those of you who think that Ms Jenner is not qualified, or not worthy, or not authentic, I challenge you to pull that pin yourself. I'll betcha you get a new perspective.
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  10. #110
    Part time CD girl Lexi Moralas's Avatar
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    Well said

  11. #111
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    I think she is managing her public transition (she had no choice but to make it public) as best she can and for the most part most in the gender-variant community will benefit from her undertaking. As far as questioning why she got the Arthur Ashe award, you should at least look at who else has gotten it and then I think you will better understand why they, yes they selected her. Many recipients were first in some aspect other than just the sport they competed in. Billie Jean King, Cathy Freeman....
    Could there be others equally worthy, undoubtedly yes but I can certainly see why she is worthy of it as well and I give ESPN some props for picking someone who may be more controversial than another.

  12. #112
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    Badtranny,

    You are good! Nicely stated.

  13. #113
    Vespa Vixen AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    I think it's a poor show to have so much vitriole expressed here. It's this sort of thing that turns people off from wanting to visit the site. This Cd/Ts divide is staggeringly ludicrous and shameful.

  14. #114
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    The perceived "CD/TS divide" is only due to the attitude of a very few individuals. The great majority of us, regardless of our position on the spectrum, are supportive of our entire community.
    Eryn
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    "She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
    "Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]

  15. #115
    Silver Member Barbara Jo's Avatar
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    Also, if someone has an issue with any given TS or CD, it does not translate into them being against the whole TS or CD community.... or even against the person is question.
    They might simply be discussing some side issue concerning an individual.



    One should no more stereo type TSs or CDs any more than any other groups.
    We can no more give anyone a free pass in everything any more than falsely accusing them of something
    can we at least agree to these two things?
    Last edited by Barbara Jo; 07-18-2015 at 06:55 PM. Reason: spelling
    Happiness is not a future condition. It is a Present state of mind.

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  16. #116
    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    Misty is absolutely correct. I am outed constantly by my employees. It's not intentional. But when people know you for many years of just comes out. I was at the supply house the other day. The owner I've known for 40 years. He introduced me to a customer at the counter. As we were talking he remarked, he's a good contractor. Oops outed again. Yeah the goal is live as stealth as possible. But as a late transitioner. It's impossible. Transition is a very public process. You can't escape that. I went to the enterologist to get pre surgery clearance. I hadn't been there in 6 years. I went there and told them my name and gender had been changed. The nurse thought that was awesome. The other nurse on the other side of the room said she should be in the computer. The first nurse whispered (there were others in the waiting room) Jenner.
    The second nurse's eyes lit up. "Ohh ok". Another great example that there is no real stealth for us. And the impact Jenner has had. I didn't need to get into an entire explanation.

    We all do what we have to live authentically. Jenner has advantages many of us would want. She also has issues being in the public eye most of us wouldn't want. I'm just glad I don't have to transition as publicly as Caitlyn.
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  17. #117
    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Caitlyn Jenner has decided that since she will not be able to just go be a woman in peace, to take it all head on and use her celebrity status as a tool for transgender awareness and education. For that, I commend her on, as it must be a very brave and difficult thing to do. For the most part, I think she is doing ok with it all as well. No one is perfect, she has and will make mistakes from time to time. In the end, the attention, the awareness, while some harm will come of it, there will be more good than harm that comes from it.

    As for the ESPY's- I feel that this was not an award she should have gotten. There is already a lot of attention and spotlight to what she is doing. I feel that the others who were in consideration for the award should have gotten it. I personally do not feel it was the place to get such an award. I believe that unfortunately ESPN sold out for ratings with Jenner getting the award. Sometimes we need to give awards to the most deserving individual, which for the award that Jenner got, in the arena which she got it, should have gone to someone more deserving. Perhaps if there wasn't already so much media coverage of Caitlyn's transition I may feel different. I would have rather seen it given to someone who had not received any media recognition or the many accolades already given to Caitlyn on her public transition.
    Chickens should be allowed to cross the road without having their motives questioned

  18. #118
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    To the OP question: No, I don't think Caitlyn has gone too far. But some here believe my opinion has no value because I'm a closeted crossdresser. Or maybe it has value but only because my opinion agrees with theirs.

    To the ESPY Courage Award: It's not a contest, not a prize for the MOST courageous person of the year. It's not won, it's awarded - to a person ESPN chooses to honor for courage, and it always seems to have a strong connection to current events. I read the list of past recipients. Caitlyn's selection is appropriate, but at the worst, not inappropriate. Don't like it? Start your own Courage Award.

  19. #119
    Member drushin703's Avatar
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    I watched the ESPY'S this past Wednesday night and I must admit it, but I cant remember ever wanting to before. I watched the entire broadcast just to see Caitlyn, not Lebron or the lovely Ms Rousey and I wasn't disappointed. Her speech
    was not only important but an important one to listen to. I didn't expect a side show, no exotic megavoltage Bond spree, no overblown falsetto- Lady Bunny improve, no camera close ups of her boobs or her hips or the spot where her
    adams apple use to wiggle, and ABC was intelligent and respectful enough to oblige me. Just 5 years ago this could not have been done as tastefully as it was....

    Did she go too far? Not in my eyes. In fact, she opened doors, lifted veils, broke open barriers and made life for all tg people, (which includes me) a life that is 99 percent hard as hell, a little easier..

  20. #120
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    All we can do is sit back and see what happens with CJ and all the trans press, bitching among ourselves isn't doing any good is it?
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  21. #121
    Member SharonDenise's Avatar
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    I am proud of Caitlyn for what she has done for herself and for our community. I felt her speech was great! It wasn't just about her but about issues that the transgender community face. Her coming out did give me the courage to come out to one of my circle of friends. It turned out to be a positive moment. However, it would be nice to be able to afford her wardrobe, especially that Versace dress.

  22. #122
    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SharonDenise View Post
    I felt her speech was great!
    I'm happy and proud for Caitlyn, but to be honest I was slightly underwhelmed by her speech. I found Lana Wachowski's acceptance speech when she received the HRC Visibility Award much better and more entertaining. Warning: Long, and it takes a few minutes to get really good.


  23. #123
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    I liked Lana's speech alot as well..

    Remember she is an artist and movie director...alot more talent that i think shines through

  24. #124
    Member MonctonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilsa View Post
    I'm beginning to believe that Caitlyn has taken her transition to the point of exploitation
    She has been brainwashed to do so after years with Kris Kardashian
    but this is how Caitlyn will pay the bills now.

    Bruce was a professional motivational/keynote speaker
    and knew that he'd lose those opportunities unless he "went big"
    with this story. So it was probably just as much a business decision.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindi Johnson View Post
    We need to stand up and be upfront with the world. Until we do, we will never be accepted. Caitlyn Jenner has done this, and I, for one, thank her for it.
    ^this. Most of my life has been laced with misery because of the gender problems swirling around in my head. Yes, I know that we need to make out presence more known to the rest of the world before we're accepted, but I just don't have the strength to go through the social ringer anymore. Caitlyn stands front and center for all of us and takes it. She knows how many people out there hate who and what she is, but has the strength of mind to deal with it. I wish I did. Not all of us are warriors.

    I didn't understand all those people who think that she did this all for the publicity and self aggrandizement, until someone else reminded me that it's mostly OTHER people who would think about doing that type of thing are the ones most likely to accuse her of it.

    For despite what anyone wants to believe, her coming out to the world has changed it substantially. Those who didn't know about transgenders now do; those who were misinformed are learning whether they like it or not (and lots of them will only learn while being dragged kicking and screaming with their hands covering their ears and eyes trying to deny we exist). Christine Jorgensen started it, but then disappeared from the news. Now we have Caitlyn, who's going to be in the media all the time. She is not one to just 'go away' quietly. I think that the fire that raged and made her the best all around athlete in the world 40 years ago is still burning hot, just with a different passion this time around.

    I may not be on the front lines. But I know that I can make a difference in a different way. I will find and support a transgender safe house with what I can afford to donate, and contribute whatever I can.

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