Has Jenner gone too far?

[Marcelle]

Hi Ilsa,

I am going to have to disagree with you on a few of your points. The award Caitlyn received was predicated on her courage to come out to the world as a trans woman which as many who have done so and have posted here can attest is no easy thing. I do not consider myself TS but I am about as public as I can be in that my world (the military) has seen and met Marcelle and that was no easy thing to do . . . I have given up a lot . . . and that cannot even compare to those who give up everything to become the gender they need to be full time. Caitlyn's very public transition has helped me immensely in that more people are aware of TG issues and when they meet me, they may think I am a trans woman ("Oh you are like Caitlyn Jenner") and that gives me an opportunity to educate on what being TG means for me.

Is Caitlyn using this public outing to her advantage? Well, I can say in my own case, acceptance for who I am on any level feels good and helps ease the angst of being public, so yes, it is an advantage to her to have such an overwhelming show of support across a wide spectrum. Is there monetary gain for her that the average trans woman will never achieve? Yes, but she had monetary privilege before due to her status as an Olympia and a public figure throughout her life. Does she crave the attention? Quite possibly as people who have once lived in the limelight tend to want to stay there . . . it is human nature. Do any of these make her a bad person or someone incapable of representing the Trans community? IMHO . . . no. It is because she is such a public figure that it helps us. Nobody is going to write articles about me coming out at work nor are they likely to write articles about all the trans persons who serve quietly in the Canadian military . . . so if a public figure is going to draw attention to us as a community and gains some notoriety and accolades along the way, I say that is a good thing.

Cheers

Isha

[Sarah-RT]

I woke up this morning, lit up a cigarette and went on Facebook to wake myself up. I had no idea the espys were a thing or that they took place last night. I read and saw some horrible comments on posts from espn about caitlyn and carried on scrolling until I got to seeing a couple of posts that had been liked by my friends, it was a quote from Jenner and kept appearing on my newsfeed, it read : " if you want to call me names, make jokes, doubt my intentions GO AHEAD. Because the reality is..I CAN TAKE IT. But for the thousands of kids out there coming to terms with who they are, they shouldn't have to take it!"

Even though I'm almost 25 I still feel I am one of those kids, 10 years on from when I was 15 and realised that this was something I did, it's only been in the last few months any of my friends have seen me dressed, or a photo or that I've had a discussion in person with any of them, some of that was because of the exposure caitlyn put on herself and a lot of it to do with same sex marriage becoming legal in many countries, while I'm not gay, the message of acceptance radiating from these moments are helping me feel like me, not as some monster to hide at home AFRAID.

I've no interest in any of the kardashians, I hate hearing about them, I can't stand Kanye west and while Jenner is not the first transsexual celebrity, her family have dominated media coverage that she has a stage to support, express and lead the acceptance for transgender people.

Sarah x

[Katey888]

I have to say I can't understand the apparent envy shown to Caitlyn for being proud and courageous about who she is... and to have that recognised by any institution - but particularly so by one not directly associated with the trans* movement - is a serious accolade and well deserved. I think we've been round the debates enough about whether or not CJ has some advantage - clearly she does. But the fact that she's prepared to take that and use it for the benefit of illuminating a cause that needs some highlighting and support says to me that this means more to her than just her personal gain.

In another world would anyone be prodding Princess Di for doing a similar thing? "Oh yeah - she's just wearing body armour and poking around in unsurveyed minefields because she needs the coverage in 'Hello' magazine..."

Caitlyn is walking her own minefield at the moment - I believe it is incumbent upon everyone who feels they are whatever part of this community to at least respect what personal courage that takes as a reflection of all those who transition and who need the moral support to do so. For that she gets my unequivocal support for any positive awareness she can bring.

Nobody is going to write articles about me coming out at work nor are they likely to write articles about all the trans persons who serve quietly in the Canadian military . . .

And I think I have to disagree with this too... Maybe you don't have quite the paparazzi pull that Caitlyn does, Isha, but I would expect your equally heroic efforts will be recognised, documented and applauded more publicly sometime in the not too distant future...

Katey x

[Mollyanne]

Everyone has their own opinion of what Caitlyn did or did not do. I personally feel that for her she did the only thing that made her happy and whole. If I had her resources I would do the entire thing. I just hope that when she does her show it does not turn into a circus like her family's show, what a bummer!!!!!

Molly

[Maria 60]

I do have respect for Bruce only because when he received the award I didn't hear I or me. Instead I heard him talk about others and to pass a massage about others accepting us. Which is far away still, but I have to disagree with you, maybe he didn't deserve the award but he didn't do anything wrong to our community. He's trying to do something that no one has ever done, stand up and defend us, that must have taken a lot of courage to do what he is doing, especially being in the cameras eye all the time.

[Dianne S]

What the heck? It's nobody's business how Caitlyn Jenner or anyone else lives her life. Just because someone is famous, it doesn't mean the peanut gallery gets to comment on how she should behave.

Leave her alone. If you think it's a circus, just don't watch and don't read about it.

[Princess Chantal]

Great thing about it was that the yesterday (the day after the MLB all star game) is notoriety for being the slowest day in sports.

[mykell]

hi ilsa,
living in the now is what ms jenner has begun to do, I will support her and could only dream of what i would do myself if i had her resources....although i know about the kardashian group i didnt follow them...did like some of theyre clothing line in the stores....they were a marketing machine, so their is know way jenner will fly under the radar...what little i have seen about some of the interviews i could relate too and wish that my wife would listen to them, she could learn from them but I know she never will.

as far as the award, never been a fan of any award shows that air, too much pomp and circumstance for my liking and they seam to make them up as they go these days so take it from where it comes from....

overall i dont see how any of this could not be seen as positive....

[bimini1]

I believe her whole life has been in preparation for this current moment. And from what I've seen and heard so far she is knocking the ball out of the park. There are a lot of deserving folks who could have received this award. And she is one of them. There are times when my own internalized transphobia rears its head and says I just wish this would all go away because it forces me to have to hear all the naysayers. But it's time for me to grow up and face it. At the end of the day what people like Caitlyn, Laverne Cox and Janet Mock have said, shown and are doing in the mainstream public consciousness helps me and I know it helps others.

[Sara Jessica]

Win for our community, I'm sure, because of the exposure and increased awareness.

Win for ESPN/ABC as they suckered me into watching two hours of an award show I had not previously seen two minutes of.

Yep, only two hours. Seems it went on past my bedtime and I fell asleep before Caitlyn's big moment. I guess I'll have to see if it'll be replayed on ESPN, or there's always Youtube.

I do have respect for Bruce only because when he received the award I didn't hear I or me. Instead I heard him talk about others and to pass a massage about others accepting us. Which is far away still, but I have to disagree with you, maybe he didn't deserve the award but he didn't do anything wrong to our community. He's trying to do something that no one has ever done, stand up and defend us, that must have taken a lot of courage to do what he is doing, especially being in the cameras eye all the time.

I'm trying to figure out what part of Caitlyn's actions and presentation calls for the use of Bruce/him/he. We have come to expect this from the Muggles but I'd think there would be more sensitivity in these pages.

[Jackie7]

Isha, not Ilsa, completely agree with your post.... Except one point. You say that nobody is going to write newspaper articles about your coming out in the Canadian military, but I am sure you are wrong about that. As an old-time newspaper worker, I would bet you that if you were to tip off the Toronto Star or the Globe and Mail, they would be all over you. because you too have an amazing story that catches the cultural wave of the moment. And you are home-grown in Canada, not a U.S. Import.

[Rhonda Jean]

I have no interest in who gets an ESPY. The award itself aside, I think she's doing a lot of good. I've come around on that. Prior to her coming out, the rumors, the sniping by the media was all so ugly and destructive. She had no privacy, which is something we all value so highly and need so desperately. She had no choice but to do this publicly. It was going to be public either on her terms or the terms of a sensationalized media. I think overall she's done a good job. A lot of how well she's done and how well she's accepted is due to the way she looks. I was afraid this was gong to be a train wreck. I was afraid she'd just look like Bruce in makeup and a dress. She looks fabulous, and that goes a long way toward her being accepted.

I get out a lot. I may be imagining it, but my pubic interactions have a different vibe now. I had one interaction a while back (that I mentioned here) that was negative, and probably more negative because of all the recent news. The overall vibe I get is more positive.

Trans stuff is so common to all of us that it's easy to forget that it's so foreign, misunderstood, and even unknown to the general population. I do think that the effect on kids will be huge and overwhelmingly positive.

[larry]

I certainly am in no position to criticize anyone. And mean no disrespect. I am a little confused though with this whole thing. I am a SECRET crossdresser.
All this attention about someone who ( as far as I know ) has not really Transitioned at all. If I had the money maybe I would have BA also. Then I would also be a crossdresser out to the world. Just saying..

[~Joanne~]

She's not getting the award for TG, she's getting it for her Olympic years. It's really a shame when even the TG community doesn't educate themselves on what the award is actually for. Yes, she does deserve it.

The Arthur Ashe Courage Award (sometimes called the Arthur Ashe Award for Courage or Arthur Ashe for Courage Award) is an award that is part of the ESPY Awards. Although it is a sport-oriented award, it is not limited to sports-related people or actions, as it is presented annually to individuals whose contributions "transcend sports". Often these transcendent figures are also athletes who have been at the top of their sport, such as Muhammad Ali, Dean Smith, and Cathy Freeman.

Jenner hasn't been on top of any sport since 1976. So if given for someone that "transcend sports", what was done to have earned it? it's like giving Obama the peace prize every year. Sorry I don't automatically buy into the hype but there are probably a lot of other people out there that deserve this award before she did. ESPN is playing a popularity game, nothing more.

[Karen RHT]

I'm somewhat of a latecomer to the whole CJ story. Perhaps one reason for that is I barely recognize the Kardashian name, and have zero interest in so called "reality" television. I do recall the Olympic accomplishments of Bruce Jenner, but he fell to the back of my memory banks like so many other athletes, celebrities, and other persons of fame and fortune have. I'm not familiar with the Arthur Ashe Award qualifications, so I'm not in a position to judge whether Caitlyn Jenner does or does not deserve the award. Over coffee this morning, I came across a brief write up acknowledging that CJ had won the award. My interest rose when I read this quote from CJ's acceptance speech:

"Trans people deserve something vital, they deserve your respect," she added. "From that respect comes a more compassionate community."

Think as you will about why CJ would say those words. Personally, I don't care why she said them, only that she did.


Karen

[Krisi]

Not to take anything away from Ms. Jenner's accomplishments, or what she may be doing for transgender people, but I don't think her courage matches what it takes to fight a war in a foreign country or even be a police officer or firefighter in this country. Those are the people who should be getting "courage" awards.

[Megan G]

My god people, get a grip. Melissa and Stefan hit the nail on the head with their comments about how a group of closeted CD'ers can be so condemning about someone who is bringing awareness to the world.

Until you step out of your own closet you have no basis to judge how much courage it takes to do this. Try it and you will find out just like Melissa, Stefan, myself and others have. And we don't have the media chasing us at all times.

I am sure the courage to run into battle is way more than coming out publicly as Caitlyn did but this is not about them. This is about sports stars and yes Jenner is one of them. Her courage has transcended her sporting achievements so in my eyes she deserves this award as to me what she has done outweighs a decathlon gold medal. Is ESPN just jumping on a politically correct media bandwagon? I could care less, this is good for those of us that live publicly as trans...

[Ilsa]

TO EACH HIS OR HER OWN OPINION

For Isha and all others that served their country.

A comparison to then and now and how it was covered by the media and how each individual handled it.

No opinion on my part. Just a history lesson.

http://www.christinejorgensen.org/MainPages/Home.html

Ilsa

[Jennifer0874]

Caitlyn's message last night seemed very important. She made it clear it wasn't only about her and made sure to focus on the most vulnerable and what they are going through.

I'm tired of the negativity thrown Jenner's way. I thought the Diane Sawyer interview was excellent and really gave those who didn't understand an idea of what transsexuals go through.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I for one am extremely greatful for the awareness she is bringing to the general public about tg people. This kind of steady exposure is part of what will help us be viewed as normal by mainstream society, thereby making it easier for all of us to be us. Wether or not she deserved this award, the fact that they gave it to an open tg person over anyone else for courageously coming out is a huge victory for our community. As far as kanye west, I dont care for his personality but the fact that a popular rapper is accepting and even being in photos with a ts and treating her like family is also a huge win.

[Suzanne F]

I do have respect for Bruce only because when he received the award I didn't hear I or me. Instead I heard him talk about others and to pass a massage about others accepting us. Which is far away still, but I have to disagree with you, maybe he didn't deserve the award but he didn't do anything wrong to our community. He's trying to do something that no one has ever done, stand up and defend us, that must have taken a lot of courage to do what he is doing, especially being in the cameras eye all the time.

This is unacceptable! How can someone on this forum use the wrong name and pronoun for a TS person? Please correct this now!
Suzanne

[Helen 2]

We need to stand up and be upfront with the world. Until we do, we will never be accepted. Caitlyn Jenner has done this, and I, for one, thank her for it.

Amen......well said, Cindi....

[CONSUELO]

I don't know the conditions for choosing candidates for the EPSY award but they chose Caitlyn and that is the end of that. Sure there are lots of heroines and heroes in this World and many go unremarked but Caitlyn did something very courageous. Many on this site talk of how frightening it is to "come out" to family, friends, colleagues. Well Caitlyn came out to the whole World so before criticising her maybe we should at least do our own "coming out". Perhaps then we shall learn what courage it takes. How would any member of this site like being on the news, on the covers of supermarket tabloids, being the butt of foulmouthed jokes and even shear hatred from the Twitterati Trolls. I would guess none of us.

SO FOR ME CAITLYN IS A TRUE HEROINE. I THINK SHE LOOKS BEAUTIFUL AND I WISH HER EVERY SUCCESS. SHE IS A GREAT AMBASSADOR FOR ALL OF US WHO LURK IN THE SHADOWS.

[Beverley Sims]

Ilsa,
Some just have to make the most of a particular situation.

Time and actions in the future will tell, I am sure.

[AngelaYVR]

My wife brought home a copy of the now famous Vogue magazine. She never really liked to have any discussion about the nuts and bolts of what I do (although she did, bless her, allow me to do it.) She knows I don't have any aspirations to go all the way but the article allowed to see that I'm not just being odd, that it is something that I always had squirreled away inside. Since then, she has been much more open to talking about it ... and asking to borrow more things as well (no, I don't have a "skirt weight" for cycling!)
So from a purely selfish position, I am happy for CJ and really, isn't this what we have been wanting for a long time, for a standard bearer to illuminate the shadows?