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Thread: Drag queens, inclusivity and problems.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    There are some who equate drag with donning blackface, and see it as mocking women. I have a female friend who argues just this, and her arguments are compelling.
    I don't buy this argument, mostly because I've heard it used against both trans women, and even CDs. It just amazes me to listen to some loud-mouthed cisgender woman with a chip on her shoulder who chides one of us for trying to define femininity for her, who then turns around and defines it for me. (Hint: even if you are a cisgender woman, you don't get to define what it means to be a woman for anyone but yourself, really.)

    I know several drag queens who are in transition. There isn't any way to tell who will or won't transition early on. I also know several drag kings, some of whom are also in transition.

  2. #27
    Member KittyD's Avatar
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    There is a huge history behind drag or drag queens!
    I think I may of posted before that it goes way back to William Shakespeare because of the lack of female actors of the time and then it evolved into pantomime dames or commonly known as the ugly sisters.
    Through time it grew again to what we see today "Drag Queens" all over the world.
    Bring us such artists and performers as RuPaul - Lily savage - Divine etc...
    (The history is important and is always over looked)

    Never have I seen or heard of a Drag Queen standing on stage and making pasting comments or jokes to put down one group of people.
    Drag Queens on a comical level operate on one level "Your all fair game"
    Welcome to the world of laughter...!
    The aim as a whole is one of a twisted and bitter nature to use gossip and innuendo as a tool and weapon of fast wit charm and misdirection.
    I love Drag acts and artist in all the forms

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  3. #28
    Non-binary/Questioning Mayo's Avatar
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    Here's an updated version of the story: https://medium.com/@keisisqrl/no-fre...s-ea62d745c7d5

    The Medium strongly takes Pink News to task for focusing on drag queens when all drag acts were banned. I think TM has a valid point re the dominance of cis het men but excoriating PN for not mentioning that Free Pride changed their policy to allow trans drag performers* only a few hours before PN released their article seems like a cheap shot.


    * I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around 'trans drag performer' but I expect I'm missing some nuance

  4. #29
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    This is exactly why I'm forever at odds with my ridiculous community. Also why my screen name is Badtranny because I will never support this kind of rampant political correctness.

    The same people who argue that 'tranny' is a slur and should be banned, are the people responsible for this next step. When this whole neo-trans movement started picking up steam a couple of years ago I went on record that the PC brigade was going to eventually come for all of us, and this laughable discussion about not allowing drag queens at a PRIDE parade is I'm afraid not even close to the end of it.

    Countless people on this very forum (most not even transitioned) were crowing about how offensive RuPaul was to the 'real' trans women and how horrifying it was that she used the word 'she-mail' on her show.

    Well congratulations PC cops, you got your way then, and now the seeds of your discontent are apparently beginning to bear fruit. Enjoy it.

    By the way, Drag Queens aren't going anywhere. They were born underground and they will return there if necessary. If freedom is a sword, political correctness is a pocket knife.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
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  5. #30
    Junior Member Alexis08's Avatar
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    I like RuPaul as person, he looks amazing as woman but I don't like his tv show for two reasons: some of the contestants dress as aliens not as women. The contestants appear as males on the show e.g when they're being interviewed. I think your male identity is something private, you should keep it out of the public eye. I think It's one of the things that make drag queens and crossdressers interesting. "What do these beautiful DQs/CDers look like without makeup and wig/as males?".


    As for words like tranny, , etc, personally I have no problem with them. Trans women in porn usually look good and feminine. Why wouldn't anyone want to be associated with them?

    I don't know why some crossdressers get offended when RuPaul uses such words on his drag queen show.
    Last edited by Lorileah; 07-22-2015 at 12:37 PM. Reason: if the filter catches it, it should be removed

  6. #31
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Did anyone read the statements? They didn't ban drag queen, they banned drag performances.

    A statement from the group, which organised the event as an “anti-commercialist” alternative to the city’s traditional Pride event, said: “After much discussion, the trans and non binary caucus decided not to have drag acts perform at the event.
    “This does not mean that people of any gender can’t wear what they want to the event, we simply won’t be having any self-described drag acts perform at our Free Pride Event on the 22nd August. We hope people can understand and support our decision. However we feel it important to fully explain why we came this decision.

    “The decision was taken by transgender individuals who were uncomfortable with having drag performances at the event. It was felt that it would make some of those who were transgender or questioning their gender uncomfortable.

    It continued: “It was felt by the group within the Trans/Non Binary Caucus that some drag performance, particularly cis drag, hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke, however transgender individuals do not feel as though their gender identity is a joke.
    So basically they say you come, march whatever. They just won't have drag shows. So what? It's their event. Anyone can come, anyone can dress....
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
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  7. #32
    Junior Member denese's Avatar
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    i have heard many many times "i don't like labels". yet here we are applying them to ourselves.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post

    So basically they say you come, march whatever. They just won't have drag shows. So what? It's their event. Anyone can come, anyone can dress....
    I read them before you posted and still thought it was ridiculous. I hope this idea does not spread. It is their event but it is appropriate to have discussion about it.

    Drag performances were a big part of our pride event. They were a blast. I would really be opposed and disappointed if they wanted to do that here. They don't do it for laughs or to put others in a bad light - it is a performance, an art for them. It has always been a big part of pride events. Well I think what they are doing is a bad decision.

  9. #34
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    It was felt by the group within the Trans/Non Binary Caucus that some drag performance, particularly cis drag, hinges on the social view of gender and making it into a joke, however transgender individuals do not feel as though their gender identity is a joke.
    I'm very uncomfortable when trans people start to make arguments about others gender expression / identity that are eerily similar to the arguments that TERFs make against ours - they feel we make a mockery of being a woman. I understand that some people may be uncomfortable or not like this - but this isn't a support group. This isn't a safe space. There will be, presumably, adults, doing adult things, possibly drinking adult beverages, and surrounded by random members of the general public. There is also the matter that some drag performers end up transitioning - I know several who've done just this. So to protect the feelings of trans people, we hurt the feelings of other people who may ultimately come out as trans. This makes no sense, and is just wrong to me.

    There is a great deal of privilege in the cisgender male gay community, and most, but not all, drag performers are cis gay men. I can understand asking them to check that a bit - a performer who was openly hostile to the trans community (or other minority groups) shouldn't be a part of such a celebration. But that's very different than what this pride event is doing.

    It seems like the way to solve something like this is dialog between the two communities, rather than one excluding the other.

  10. #35
    Gender adventurer JamieG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    Did anyone read the statements? They didn't ban drag queen, they banned drag performances.

    So basically they say you come, march whatever. They just won't have drag shows. So what? It's their event. Anyone can come, anyone can dress....
    Drag queens are all about the performance, without a performance, you don't really have a drag queen. I think most of us realize that they didn't prohibit drag queens from attending; it's not like they are going to ask everyone in a dress, "queen or trans?" However, when you exclude a class of performers based on a stereotype, you are certainly telling a segment of the population they are unwelcome. Wouldn't it infuriate you if they banned transwomen performers just because a group of lesbians finds straight transwomen performers to be offensive? (oh, but of course transwomen can attend, they just can't perform because they might offend someone)?

    You are right, it is their event, they can do what they want. But, other people can say how wrong their policy is, and choose not to come. I hope its a miserable failure and they come to their senses next year. I have no problem with prohibiting a performer who has clearly expressed a transphobic message, but painting all drag queens with a broad brush is just wrong, plain and simple. We all need to realize, its not always about us. Live and let live and all that...

  11. #36
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    and it makes us all look terribly bad in the eyes of the anti LGBT people, who are having a good laugh at how we our discriminating against each other.

  12. #37
    Aspiring Member vallerie lacy's Avatar
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    I really don't mind drag queens at all. I admire their desire to be so outrageous. I guess in a way I'm jealous that they are "out there" and I'm at home.
    After searching my lingerie drawers, I have come to the conclusion that they lied. Ruffles don't have ridges. At least mine don't.

  13. #38
    Vespa Vixen AngelaYVR's Avatar
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    That alternative event sounds incredibly dull

  14. #39
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    Some group banned from a pride event.....someone doesn't get it!

    Sounds like some local individual has a personal agenda.

  15. #40
    The Girl in a blue dress. Jennifer B's Avatar
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    Just looking at their Facebook page now. (https://www.facebook.com/freeprideglasgow?fref=nf) It seems that they have reversed the decision. This snippet from a lengthy post says, "We made a mistake, and we apologise." which sums it up.

    Anyway whilst they sort that out I shall be enjoying watching the Drag Queen Olympics next weekend at the Amsterdam Gay Pride Weekend. Including handbag throwing and the 100 metre sprint in stilettos amongst other things.

  16. #41
    Non-binary/Questioning Mayo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    They didn't ban drag queen, they banned drag performances.
    Initially (17 July) they banned all drag performances (but not attendees). Then (20 July) they changed it to a ban on drag performances by cis people (allowing trans & non-binary drag performers). Now (as of 22 July) it appears they've reversed the ban entirely.

  17. #42
    Aspiring Member Sarah-RT's Avatar
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    Mayo I believe your correct, they have reversed the decision and apologized for being too extreme on the situation.

    Sarah x
    I cant stand to fly, I'm not that naive. I'm just out to find the better part of me. I'm more than a bird, I'm more than a plane, I'm more than some pretty face beside a train. Its not easy to be me.

  18. #43
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    Hi Sarah, Political correctness is ruining the whole world.

    I'm the most un-PC person that you will ever meet.
    Having my ears triple pierced is AWESOME, ~~......

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  19. #44
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    I don't find drag queens at all offensive. One of my favourite nights out to date remains a trip to Funny Girls in Blackpool.

    As for the story you mention, the strange thing is that this is the actions of free pride Glasgow, which was set up as an anti-commercialist alternative to the "official" Glasgow Pride organisation. And whilst I can kind of understand that a straight drag queen doesn't generally represent any part of the LGBT spectrum, I still feel that there is a larger overlap with the G part of the community than there is for girls like us.

    I also feel that excluding ANYONE from a pride parade is merely more example of the way that certain parts of the community feel a need to self segregate. My question is, if a straight performer, presenting as their genetic/biological gender wished to perform, would they be refused because they were a straight man presenting as a man? Is not support from outside the community just as important, if not even more important than support from within it?

    How can a group that marches to raise awareness of difference and teaches tolerance and acceptance of sexuality and gender issues possibly think that refusing drag queens on the basis that they don't represent you properly is a good idea? It goes against everything the community stands for and everything that Pride is supposed to achieve.

  20. #45
    Call me Pam pamela7's Avatar
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    what the glasgow event has done is raise publicity, by injection and retracting controversy. it's an old ploy, and i hope it works ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJFyz73MRcg
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  21. #46
    Junior Member Alexis08's Avatar
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    I just read an article about a swedish GG who works as a drag queen. yes that's right. drag queen, not king. I've known her as DQ for years but was unsure if she was a GG, trans girl or a guy with realistic, fake tits.

    But now it turns out that she is indeed a genetic girl.

    I wonder how common it is that drag queens are GGs. Do you guys know one or several?

  22. #47
    Senior Member Lori Kurtz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexis08 View Post
    GG who works as a drag queen ...
    A woman who tries to look like a man who tries to look like a woman? Whew ... that's a new one on me.

  23. #48
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    Ain't that a Kick in the Head? (Or lower, depending)

    DeeAnn

  24. #49
    Dandizette LilSissyStevie's Avatar
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    They're called Faux Queens

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux_queen

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleScott View Post
    How do the event officials know who is trans? Do people who find the style and demeanor of drag queens offensive only think that way if the drag queen is not trans? But first things first: what is trans? We're all together on the definition, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie View Post
    Maybe they can set up a TSA like checkpoint where everyone has to show their junk to get in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isha View Post
    Arrg . . . I was going to ask the exact same question Nicole. Do we have start bringing our "Trans Identity Cards" to events now? Plain stupid, narrow minded and just not right IMHO

    Cheers

    Isha
    For those that don't know or never looked, all Trans people have a T that magically grows into the skin behind the left earlobe as we age.

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