Crossdress vs. Transgender

[Angela Marie]

When I first started dressing several years ago I identified as a crossdresser. Over the past year or so my feminine side has become stronger and stronger. At first it was only about the clothes. Then the mannerisms became more and more feminine and finally the realization that my female side was much, much stronger than I had initially realized or wanted to admit. Now I clearly identify as transgender. How many people here have experienced this evolution and does it stop or does our feminine side become increasingly dominant?

[kimdl93]

You realize you're inviting the usual, needless debate between people who include CDing on the transgender spectrum...which is the generally recognized perspective....and those who feel that CDing is something apart.

But let's put that debate aside, because that doesn't really address the underlying question, which I think, is why has your self assessment changed. One could assert that dressing is changing you, that the positive feelings you experience through the act of emulating a woman is rewarding and, therefore, encourages further progression.

Another possible explanation is that this part of you has always been present, but to use your own words, was much stronger than you wanted to admit. Take away the overburden of repression, add positive experiences and many of us have begun to realize possibilities we previously could not allow ourselves to imagine.

[natalie_cheryl]

kim i think just NAILED IT! when i was younger than i am now and first begining to take an honest look at my cross dressing habits i considered myself to be just a cross dresser. but now i realize that yes cross dressers are apparently on the trans spectrum somewhere, and that not only am i trans but if i had it all to do over agian i would have come out of the closet when i came out of the military and transitioned back then. but i love my life the way it currently is and would change anything.

[Belle Cri]

Absolutely - I agree with Kim and Natalie

[msniki48]

Angela,

I believe this is the way most of us start and like Kim said, we come to the realization of a side of us that we could or would not admit to [to me it was due to my generation ] I am TG and my only outlet for now is to dress [ cd ] if my life would allow, I would do more to be as feminine as possible. I believe some of us crossdress BECAUSE we are Transgender ....as opposed to just liking the clothes and feel etc. Nothing wrong with that. Not every cross dresser tries to present as female. just my thoughts.

hugs

niki

[Samantha2015]

Given what others have said I feel I'm on the bottom steps of the CD/TG ladder.
I certainly like dressing up but I've never felt I was born into the wrong body.
Don't think I'd want to be femme 24/7. Presenting male 98% of the time is
normal for me, a little bit of Samantha goes a long way for me. Will my feelings
change in the future toward being more femme? Who knows? I sure don't.
I'm not going to worry about it, I'm content for now.

[Angela Marie]

Another possible explanation is that this part of you has always been present, but to use your own words, was much stronger than you wanted to admit. Take away the overburden of repression, add positive experiences and many of us have begun to realize possibilities we previously could not allow ourselves to imagine.[/QUOTE]

I think you are absolutely right and the fact that I have become more comfortable with it, combined with the positive reinforcement I have received from others especially GG's, has allowed me to truly understand myself. Thanks to all of you for the great feedback.

[Pat]

I certainly like dressing up but I've never felt I was born into the wrong body.

Transgender doesn't mean that. That's more transsexual.

Transgender just describes not being a 100% match to one gender. I think most of us meet that criterion. Because most of us come to this with no experience and no education on what crossdressing is all about, we all start off "just dressing" without a strong sense of what's driving us internally. There seems to be a point where we saturate on the just dressing part and start to think about why and that's when we tend to move into acknowledging we're transgender. Some find they go past that into the transsexual, but some (most?) are where they belong as simply transgender.

The important thing is that we're always transgender -- it doesn't stop when we go back to wearing male clothes. The reason we get twitchy when we dress male for too long is that we need to get back to that transgender place in our heads and at first we do that by changing clothes. And we feel good because we're not telling the "male lie" any more. That's when people start describing a need to present female as a "survival" behavior. But over time we learn that neither male nor female presentation is The Truth for us. We pull away from the sense that there's a "male self" and a "female self" and discover that there's just one person inside us that has elements of both male and female. That's when people start saying they're the same person no matter how they're presenting.

I think that's a normal progression that many of us have gone through and when you have you can get to a point where presentation is no longer a top priority. It's enjoyable to switch between them but it's not something we have to do for survival.

All just opinion, of course.

[Mayo]

Transgender just describes not being a 100% match to one gender. I think most of us meet that criterion. Because most of us come to this with no experience and no education on what crossdressing is all about, we all start off "just dressing" without a strong sense of what's driving us internally. There seems to be a point where we saturate on the just dressing part and start to think about why and that's when we tend to move into acknowledging we're transgender. Some find they go past that into the transsexual, but some (most?) are where they belong as simply transgender.

I am now tentatively considering myself TG in the 'umbrella' sense - as a somewhat gender-queer/gender-variant male - and am crossdressing as a means to explore that aspect of my identity. So for me the realization that I may be TG, and that my psyche has a feminine component to it, came before I started CD rather than after. While I realize there are many different motives for dressing, CD for me personally is a part of (and an expression of) my developing non-binary gender identity, not something unrelated to it.

Now, having unlocked that door I don't know where it's going to take me, and whether or not it will eventually become something I'll need to do for 'survival' is still an open (and scary! ) question for me.

[Krisi]

Crossdressing does not cause one to eventually become transgender, transsexual, or transanything. There are many males who crossdress their entire lives without becoming anything but crossdressers.

If you eventually identify as something more than a crossdresser, that's fine but spreading the rumor that crossdressing leads to wanting to become a woman is doing the crossdressers no favor. It's an all to common assumption.

[Tina_gm]

In late 2012, I confessed to my wife that I had desires to CD, and always had them. I had very very rarely indulged my desires, but was beginning to sneak into her stuff more and more. fast forward a couple of months and I found myself a very reputable gender therapist. He fairly quickly determined that I was not TS, although in time I may find myself more feminine dominated, and that still does not make one TS. At that time, he went over with both my wife and I that I was in the transgender spectrum. The definition then given by this therapist, who works for a very reputable LGBT clinic which covers all letters fairly equally by the way.... was that ANY desire or willful act that crosses the normal gender boundaries (in other words, not just dressing) is transgenderism, and makes one transgender, or at least in the TG specturm.

FF to 2015.... Caitlyn Jenner, and a few others who have come out and the media describes TG what we on this board describe TS. In the media at least, anything short of someone who fully identifies opposite of their birth gender is not TG. CJ herself in describing herself as TG, and the difference between CDers, who she said are just that and not TG... It only added to the media description of TG.

Personally, I do not really care. If Transvestite was still an acceptable term, I wouldn't really care. Words and terms to me are not all that relevant, because they are constantly changing by the thought police and the PC minded. I find it funny that they will literally come up with terms and definitions, then consider those which they came up with to be offensive.... The LGBT community at one point heralded Bill Clinton with the DADT policy in the armed forces.... They did not seem to mind his backing of the defense of marriage act..... Oh how times change.

While I do not care what the term is, I do find crossdresser to be a bit limiting. CDers (most) have a real feminine side, or femininity that transcends just dressing in women's clothing. They do not identify internally as women, or only or completely, but for a majority of CDers, it is more than just dressing. Crossdressing is an act. We can be crossdressers, but there is a reason for it. There is a condition we have in our brains that desires it. While all the attention recently is good, I do think though that the CDers are getting somewhat lost in the shuffle. People will now likely see a CDer, or know of one and will assume that they only identify opposite of their birth gender. Two steps forward, one step back I guess. TG as an umbrella term seems to work good, and within that, people can identify where they are as TGers.

[Samantha2015]

Jennie, thanks for the clarification. I'm still ignorant on all the deep thinking about all this.
I always thought CD-TG-TS were 3 totally different stages/phases/conditions ??
I don't even know what to call them.

[Dianne S]

I think quite a few people who transition start out thinking they're crossdressers. That was definitely my experience.

The converse, of course, is not true. Most people who start out thinking they're crossdressers really are and they don't transition. I also think it's becoming less common nowadays because transgender topics are spoken about more, so young people are quicker to identify themselves as wanting to transition that people of my generation were.

[Tina_gm]

Samantha, the way I see it, CDing is really just a description of the verb of what a majority of TG people do. A majority of TS will CD until they transition. (many of them will feel that wearing the clothes of their birth gender is CDing, for them) Which is why CD is a bit of a limiting term to me. I shave my body because I do not like my body hair and prefer to feel my skin without the hair. And I grow my nails longer than most guys.... That is not CDing. The thought police and the PC crowd have kicked me out of the TG club, so why do I do these things?

[stefan37]

I might get flamed for this. Those that crossdress and wish to present as female even in their own closet are TG to some extent. If it was only about clothes they wouldn't have a need or desire to wear forms, or use female names. There are and have been some members here that dress and use their male names, wear beards, and for them it's only about the clothes. The issue is because o marital, societal pressures and male socializations many are in denial. Because of those pressures those in denial will not be honest with themselves and admit they are TG. To be clear I don't equate TG with TS. One can be TG without being TS.

[Pat]

Samantha, the way I see it, CDing is really just a description of the verb of what a majority of TG people do.

I can't speak to majorities, but I believe under the current thinking all CDs are TG but not all TG folk CD. TG is the big umbrella, CD is one of the groups sheltering there. Of course there are still people who feel that they are not TG even when they crossdress -- I can't tell someone else what they feel, but I'm mystified as to how you could class yourself a cisgender male yet still have a compulsion to crossdress. I expect it's just a failure to communicate.

Re: Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner, my recollection is when she did the interview her team released a pretty complete press kit specifically mentioning that not all transgender people choose to transition. If the press (or some of it) chose to ignore that you can't blame her. She also released very detailed guidance that at the time of the interview her preferred pronouns were "he/him." After the Vanity Fair cover that seems to have changed, though I haven't seen an update press kit get released.

[Krisi]

I'm not going to "flame" you. but I'm not going to agree with you either. None of us know exactly why we do what we do because the human mind is so complex and there is no way to test it. It's not like figuring out the reason the light won't light is because the circuit breaker is tripped.

Sometimes people over think things. It's possible for a crossdresser to be just that, a crossdresser. Not "TG", not "TS", and not "TAnything". Liking to imitate a female for a few hours can be just that, nothing more.

[Tina_gm]

To Jenni-cd, not sure if you were meaning you generically, in your response to my post, but I do not classify myself as a cis-gender male. Just want to clarify this in case. I am not blaming CJ entirely for what the media is now describing as TG, and among most of us, TG is still the umbrella term. I do wonder though about how some who are CDers and do not identify as female are going to be misunderstood as to why they are CDing. I do agree that not everyone who is TG does CD. There can be, although rare, someone who CD's who is not TG, and not just because of a dare or lark, I suppose occasionally someone got dared or whatever, saw how good it worked for them and perhaps entertain even though they really do not feel it inside? I sometimes wonder about some of the drag queens, how TG they really are.... I know most are probably, but I can imagine that some really are not TG.

[Jazzy Jaz]

I agree with jenny and gendermutt quite a bit. In my opinion transgender is an umbrella term in which crossdressers and transsexuals both fall under. Transsexuals i believe are the opposite of non transgender people, a ts woman is completely a woman, there are no mixed feelings (no bones about it) so to speak. The rest of us fall in between these two poles at varying degrees. Cds have a feminine aspect to our personality, some stronger than others that other men dont have and dressing is part of how we express that. The only cds that i dont think fall under the tg umbrella are drag queens and those who only dress on halloween etc just for the heck of it.

Oh and good point gendermutt, im sure there are many drag queens who are tg, sexuality doesnt prevent that.

[Isabella Ross]

To answer the OP's question: Angela, yes, the feelings have intensified as a I get older.

But the post also subtly reintroduces the entire CD vs. TG debate. I'm completely in agreement with Jasmine and Gendermutt and others who have commented.

THE BOTTOM LINE: I crossdress because I am transgendered. Perhaps, like Samantha, I'm only mildly transgendered compared to some who live full-time or close to full-time. But I'm transgendered. And proud of it. Is there something wrong with this term that causes some of us to reject it against all common sense? The only problem with the term is that the media and thus the general public have some confusion, in terms of thinking that TG automatically means that transitioning is imminent...something that, for the vast majority of us, is not even remotely in the cards.

[cheryl reeves]

there are times i feel like i dont fit any label,for when im in male mode i feel crossdressed for when im in fem mode i feel like im crossdressed. i know im ts but ts what mtf or ftm all these labels get confusing for some of us dont fit anywhere. long ago i knew i was ts but preferred transvestite as my label then the internet came along and dumped into the cd group,now 15 yrs later dropped into the tg umbrella and still dont fit anywhere. i love dressing in my dresses as well as my mens shorts and pants,i love growing a mustache,i also like it when im clean shaven. i keep my legs shaved though for the hair grows in patches and never looked good..so what good is labels when you dont fit into them,its like forcing a square peg in a round hole,doesnt work unless you get a sledge hammer to force it to fit..i guess if i had to have a label it would be hermophidite for im both male and female and enjoy both sides of who i am.

[Stephanie47]

Before coming to this site I never heard the term "transgender" applied to cross dressing. Even now, if you asked the average person in the street, what the term "transgender" means, they will probably answer it refer to a person changing from one sex to the other. You may argue terminology until the cows come home. I enjoy wearing women's clothing and have absolutely no desire become a woman. I am totally comfortable being a man.

When I was a teenager I started dabbling in my mother's lingerie draw. It progressed to wearing undergarments (panty, hosiery, girdle, bra, slip) and dresses. I felt absolute revulsion which was due to societal viewpoint of cross dressing men. We were labeled "queers, faggots, fruits" and were subject to physical violence. And, if you were a church goer what you heard from the pulpit was nothing less than eternal damnation. So, the end result was suppression of the desire. Over the years I found that I was not a homosexual or bisexual. I just enjoyed wearing women's clothing for some unknown reason. With time came self acceptance. Of course, that did not mean everything was bliss. My wife and I are in a DADT marriage, but, she is not judgmental anymore. That is her evolution of cross dressing. She realizes her man is still there for her.

I suspect many cross dressers experience euphoria when there is more opportunity to dress and there is self acceptance. I had that feeling when I retired and my wife continued to work. I had a lot of time to be Stephanie. After awhile those feelings dissipated. I will go through the entire summer without dressing. It does not cause me any angst. I have plenty of activities and responsibilities as a man to do. I enjoy being a man.

Personally, I think there is a very small minority of men who will transition to being a woman.

[Ceera]

I think each of us has to come to our own understanding of who we are and why we do what we do. And that is something that may change and evolve over time.

It took me three or four years from my first sexual experiences (with both genders) to accept that I was bisexual. But I couldn't openly acknowledge that fact because I knew my dad was homophobic and couldn't accept it. So I suppressed that side of me for over 40 years, and very few people knew. I tried to live a straight and monogamous life, and was honest to my wife about my inclinations. She knew that while I preferred women, I also felt some attraction to males - but that regardless of that I was willing to remain monogamous with her. After my father and then my wife both died, I ceased trying to hide that part of myself, and came out to my daughter about being Bi and also about wanting to cross dress. She accepted me fully.

When I started cross dressing, I knew my personality had a strong feminine aspect. I'd lived with that for most of my life, but just hadn't allowed it to have much open expression in my life. After my father died, I started experimenting with underdressing, but held it to no more than that, because while my wife accepted that I wanted to wear panties, she was reluctant for me to do more in that regard. After she also died, the CD activity was another thing I came out to my daughter about, and she also accepted that fully.

So I bought a closet full of clothes, learned to do my makeup and change my voice, and I started going to a local club en-femme once a week...

I had no intention of transitioning then, and I still don't. I'd done on-line evaluations that clearly indicated I wasn't transsexual, did not have gender dysphoria, and that I had no serious need to alter my body. I still had a hard time explaining, even to myself, why I wanted to become female and go nightclubbing. I just did. I wasn't particularly looking to 'hook up' with anyone of either gender or any particular orientation for an intimate evening or future dates. It might happen, and occasionally has, but an intimate encounter wasn't my goal. I was going to a gay club because it seemed a safer place for me to 'be a woman'. But mostly I just wanted to dance, socialize, and be seen and appreciated. And at the time I didn't feel either the term transgender or transsexual applied to me. If asked, I identified as a bisexual male who occasionally cross dressed.

Over the past year and a half I have come to accept that 'Transgender' does apply to me as well. I'm much less certain that transsexual does, because to me that still implies some dissatisfaction with birth gender and a desire to alter one's self to become the other gender.

For now, cross dressing is enough for me. I can present well as a woman and have fun interacting with both genders in that mode. I'm hoping to expand how much of my time is spent en-femme, and to get out more often and to more places as a woman. Yet I still doubt that will encompass more than half of my life. Part of me thinks it would be great to have breasts, but I can't quite reconcile that with still desiring to spend most of my time in male mode. I'd love to have a full head of feminine length hair, but I can do well enough with wigs, and I doubt anything short of HRT would ever eliminate my male pattern baldness. I keep my face and body clean shaven now, and will probably get my ears pierced within the next year... Will I change my body beyond that? I doubt it.

But I may change my mind. That's a girl's prerogative, isn't it?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I believe that we all end up defaulting to our true nature..
for many cd's that wearing female clothes, underdressing, etc... in or out of the house is just a circumstance driven by all kinds of external factors...

for other people there is an identity part that if left unchecked can become a crisis.... in my experience denying your fundamental gender identity is unsustainable and leads to suffering.
this is regardless of how you identified in the past, and whether you went out all the time or stayed in the closet....

so if you are finding yourself "feeling" you are gender fluid or even ts, its likely you are... cd's do not have these feelings except in a very cursory way or perhaps as a fantasy, and i bet that the reason you id'd as "just cd" is that because you simply hadn't learned enough about yourself...maybe you coped by dressing and compartmentalizing...maybe you actively lied to yourself or just pushed the whole thing out of your mind, and maybe you just never touched that third rail and triggered all the gender thoughts...it doesn't matter...once they are there, they are there...you can't fight mother nature

time and energy spent fighting your nature is ultimately wasted and especiallly for transsexuals the consequences can be dire, the gender dysphoria can be incredibly crippling and destroy all quality of life.. realizing you are and have always been a woman at age 30 or 40 or 50 is pretty darn intense and makes you think things that are not good

the answer to me is to try to not think so much, and act. Let your nature inform you and do what you think is right....nobody is perfect and its a minefield of learning and other issues that can include shame, stigma, entrenched thinking, money issues, marriage issues, etc etc....at a minimum give yourself permission to explore who you are...you only get one life...

if you learn about and stay true to your nature, it can all work out regardless of whether you are a cd, a cd with a feminine side tg, or a transsexual...by acting on thoughts and feelings within reason, you can really learn about yourself.

[pamela7]

now we know that only society defines male/female behaviour/clothing (outside of the obvious biological roles in procreation and breastfeeding), i can only really support the idea that the CD I do is indeed female, and probably therefore transgender.

the clear difference i hear from lifelong TS is that they know they are women in male bodies, prior to surgery. So ... what if there's a demographic who don't know their gender cos they did not think to wonder ...?