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Thread: Transition because you have to?

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    Silver Member Tina_gm's Avatar
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    Transition because you have to?

    Diane brought up something in the CD section about how younger people today are more likely to transition because of greater acceptance and awareness of trans issues. Most who are TS and are or have transitioned caution that transition should only be done if one feels they "have to"

    In coming to a point in ones life where one has to, by that time, typically, and I have read several people here describe hitting such horrible low points in life. contemplating or attempting suicide, crippling depression, substance abuse, failed marriages, jobs etc etc... Many here regret those dark years and think, if only they had come to grips with it all and not fought themselves, they would have saved many years where life was anything but pleasant.

    I myself fought my own femininity for nearly 30 years. I do not consider transition for 2 reasons. 1st, It would all but destroy 30 plus years worth of adult life that I have built, and second, because while frustrating at times, my life as a male is bearable. I don't have to.

    I cannot honestly say what would have happened 30 years ago if I had begun to accept my own femininity. I really do not know if I would have transitioned or not. I do find certain times of my life as a male to be bearable and even enjoyable. I do know that things would be a lot different though, as I would not have hid myself, limited my CDing and likely would have directed my life in ways where CDing, and the people around me (circle of friends) would not have a big issue with it.

    I am wondering that perhaps, the do not transition if you don't have to is no longer the best advice? However, I also wonder and perhaps worry that people who are somewhere strongly on the TG scale, may think they should transition and then later regret it. It appears to me that by the time someone transitions, they typically do not regret it. Only the amount of time spent fighting themselves before they did.
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    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    For younger individuals it is different in many respects. For one there is much information available. Societal and in many instances parental acceptance is better. Transitioning while younger allows for more time to adopt female socializations and make it easier for younger transitioners to integrate. Late life transitioners such as myself have/or had heavily invested in male socializations. Marital and parental issues. Work and credit histories. Male body physiology. The lists go on. The damage that results from pulling the tranny grenade pin(Tm). Can be catastrophic. The younger one starts living as female the more successful they will be. Stealth becomes a very viable outcome. It's possible that in 50 years there will be no Trans movement. Is older and mud life transitioners will be dead. Those that start their lives earlier as MTF or Ftm will be acclimated in their target gender and only those intimate with their early years will know.

    Certainly had I had the availability of information that is available today. I have no doubt my life would have been completely different.
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    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    I think younger people who decide to transition really do have to. "Do not transition unless you have to" is excellent advice that still holds.

    The problem with my generation is that some of us really had to transition, but we fought it unproductively. I think the younger generation is less likely to fight against their own true nature.

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    Why would anyone "want" to transition?
    It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.

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    I've made it and love it Jennifer-GWN's Avatar
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    Personally I struggled for a long time. 1 with my primary gender but 2 with a sense of duty to my family. Last fall it reached a point where there was only two paths forward and one was not very fulfilling and rather permanent in a harmful way. I would have loved to have pursued this a long time ago but as others have indicated i still hadn't reached that critical point as I was continuing to fight it, be stubborn, and feel it could be controlled. As much as hindsight is 20/20 it would have been great to transition earlier in life but as they say if you're not ready you shouldn't... This is a big change. Not something to be taken lightly. I personally think it is important to know your needs to the core and only then make the step forward in earnest.

    Cheers... Jennifer
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    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Transition is a brutal process no matter how you slice it because of ONE thing. The social aspect. Sure the surgeries, and electrolysis, and yadda yadda yadda, there is physical pain but NOTHING is more difficult than the social transition. It is everything.

    The day after you pull the pin, your life as you knew it is over. If you're a late TranSitioner, then you will NEVER be free of the dude you used to be. You will NOT disappear into your new life as a woman. You will always be a transgender woman and you will never forget that you were a man for most of your life. Most of the people in your life will never forget it either.

    Younger people have the advantage of more time in front of them then behind them, as well as physical advantages. I don't have advice for young people except; be true to yourself, you ain't gonna be young forever.

    Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom. Don't transition unless you think that's a good trade.

    For me the freedom was worth everything.
    Last edited by Sandra; 07-21-2015 at 01:10 PM. Reason: Quoted post has been removed, imho it was made to cause trouble
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    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    I think that the statement still is very valid, especially for those that have a well establish life. However, for the much younger people wanting to be themselves early in life, like in their teens and earlier 20's, what you say may have more traction. They have less invested in their societal life and careers, have so much to look forward to in the future, i.e. a much longer life being who they really are, though their bodies might not yet reflect that, may have a lot of support from family and friends, have newer national and local/State laws protecting them, have doctors and therapists available who better understand the situation, and have the general society that is finally starting to understand what this is all about. Under these circumstances, I think that the "have to" could be replaced by the "need to".

    The "have to" reasoning is because there is so much to lose for a mature and established adult when transitioning later in life. New transitioner's need to know that transition is not easy. The difficulties and the transitional steps so disrupting to themselves and others that will be encountered means that one is hopefully mentally and probably physically ready and able to put themselves through all that. While our newer and younger transitioner's may be able to avoid a lot of the disruptions and collateral damage to others and themselves just because they are younger. They will probably encounter similar difficulties and issues during their transitions but maybe not to the same level of negative impact as the older transitioner's.

    This is all conjuncture at this point until we can really look back under the "time will tell" reality.

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    Silver Member Starling's Avatar
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    I am happy with many aspects of my male life. I'm moderately successful in a difficult profession, have a lot of friends and live in comfort. But...through all my years of living pretty well as a man, I have never been able to love myself and feel true joy or fulfillment, and always felt alienated from my own life, always knew I was living falsely. Because I despise it, and must nurture a death wish, I've treated my body badly, and neglected my health, from teeth to toes. By the time I finally came to terms with my true nature, it was almost too late to hope for a transition that was not only "successful", but also worth the trouble, pain and loss.

    That issue is what I'm grappling with right now, and I can tell any young transgender woman yes, get plenty of advice and counseling, by all means be sure you really know yourself and what you'll be letting yourself in for; but when you're certain of who you really are, go ahead and make the leap, for your own sake and the sake of everyone you love. Don't waste your life in a lie. Believe me, all your accomplishments as a "male" will ultimately be like dust in your mouth.

    Lallie
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    i can't agree more with what you said Starling, don't waste your life in a lie, but it's quite hard for everyone.
    As a young one living this struggle, even if I feel deep inside that I'm not who I really am, there is always a part of myself wondering whether this is the right choice or not, would I be able to destroy all (even if it's a small thing for older) I've built, lose part of my entourage, family... Of course changes would be more effective in my early 20s than in my 60s but it's a huge step and the "because you have to" is still the right advice for young ones and all guys and girls out there.
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    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    I'll tell you the same thing I tell other young people. Explore and experiment. If it's right for you. You'll know. You need to be honest with YOU. If she exists. And you allow it. She will emerge. And you can continue on with life.If she exists and you fight it. She will emerge at a most inconvenient time in your life. And you can continue on in life. If she doesn't exist and you allow it. She will not emerge. And you can continue on with your life.
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    Virtually every aspect of my old life was superior to my present life, with one exception - I can stand to live my present life, despite it's issues.

    Of course I feared the losses we all fear. Doing what I knew I needed to do was a terrifying prospect.

    Don't do what I did, and wait until you can no longer stand life at all to transition. Because at that point, it may well be too late for you. It very nearly was for me.

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    Living MY Life Rachel Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post

    Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom. Don't transition unless you think that's a good trade.

    For me the freedom was worth everything.
    Now that is well said Melissa. I agree the freedom is worth everything.
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    I've made it and love it Jennifer-GWN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    Virtually every aspect of my old life was superior to my present life, with one exception - I can stand to live my present life, despite it's issues.

    Of course I feared the losses we all fear. Doing what I knew I needed to do was a terrifying prospect.

    Don't do what I did, and wait until you can no longer stand life at all to transition. Because at that point, it may well be too late for you. It very nearly was for me.
    Paula... You're right on the fear side for sure. Transition is a big step and often a leap of faith often when you hit rock bottom. I can't say I've actually given up a lot as the eventual upside has sure out weighted the other option and on a day-to-day level actually enhanced many of my existing relationships simply because I'm being me and for,others there no confusion in who I am.

    Cheers all. Jennifer
    I am who I am... I'm happy...I mean truly to the bone happy...and at peace with myself for the first time ever. I'm confident and content as the woman I am.

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    In the context of the younger generation (the millennials if you will), the acceptance level is higher. I certainly don't think it is at a perfect point, but the social aspect of transitioning is no where near what it is for the current late transitioners. By no means do I believe that means it is easy. But I do think there is a continuing trend of better societal acceptance which allows a transition at a time that you feel you "have to" to where the personal and professional damage is far less than it has been for what many here experienced. So for late transitioners, the "have to" was have to and sometimes fight that for a long time before there is no way to fight anymore. Now it looks to be sliding to "have to" and then you do it. If that acceptance continues in a good trend, the damage and lives lost will also go down. I think it is a promising future, just a matter of how long.

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    It's very difficult for me to imagine life in the context of today's twenty something. At that time in my life, being outed as a cross dresser was the worst fate imaginable....at least in my own mind. Twenty years later I was outed by my ex wife (to family, friends and coworkers) and, oddly enough, the sun rose again in the East. Maybe today, a young person really can consider possibilities we were too afraid to consider, and can do so even without desperation.

    I listened to a Frontline podcast over the weekend about transsexual children...under sixteen...who were pioneering both puberty suppression meds and cross gender hormonal therapies. It was interesting and truly informative to hear the clarity of these kids in describing their gender identity. I thought of myself at the same age and all I knew was I was confused and scared of the possibilities. These kids, of course, enjoy parental support that someone of my age could never have had. And they are so very well informed, possessed with a depth of knowledge instead of the fear and ignorance that afflicted people of my generation.

    Even then, I wasn't able to allow myself to consider the possibility of living openly as a woman. Today, I can envision a future that accommodates both the life I led and the one I hope to lead, in some measure. I don't know that I would call it a transition in the accepted meaning of the term, but it will certainly be different and more encompassing than the past.
    Last edited by kimdl93; 07-21-2015 at 08:01 PM. Reason: meds, not mess!
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    Transgender Member Dianne S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom.
    Maybe I'm unreasonably lucky, but I have not as yet suffered huge losses from transition. I still have my mom, my sisters and my kids. I still have the respect of my employees. And in fact, I'm reconnecting with old friends as well as making new ones.

    I think it's a big case of YMMV, though I certainly acknowledge I'm on the extreme "everything went smoothly" scale of transition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dianne S View Post
    I think it's a big case of YMMV, though I certainly acknowledge I'm on the extreme "everything went smoothly" scale of transition.
    That's why it's important for all of us to tell our stories. Not every transition is a nightmare.

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    Member Kimberly Kael's Avatar
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    Paula, it's absolutely true and yet also somewhat heretical around here. I suspect it's more accurate to observe at this point in time that even in the most accepting parts of the world every transition is a still a risk. I think there's something to the OP's question about whether the familiar adage still holds. To be perfectly honest, I didn't transition because I had to. I did suspect that at some point it may very well have become that urgent. I did take the time to inform myself and work with a gender therapist to weigh the possible risks against the benefits. Ultimately I decided that being true to myself was worth risking my marriage and career over. I understood that I might lose connections with friends and family, so it's not like I took it lightly.

    ... and yet here I am. My career is perhaps somewhat less high powered than it might have been but it is still rewarding. My marriage is strong, if unconventional. I get to spend every single day as myself and I suffered only one significant falling out with a family member. It has been worth it, no question, and it has been merely challenging.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-22-2015 at 05:27 AM. Reason: No need to quote the entire preceding post
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    so if we are transexual we have to transition now? just wonder for not all ts's chose to transition for personal reasons. i hope this post isnt trolling. i for one am very ts and could have chosen to transition at a early age but my love for women stopped me,for if i transitioned then,i wouldnt have what i have now a son who loves cheryl as much as he loves his dad..i wouldnt have my wonderful wife for i would be alone. ive seen plain cders get trapped into transitioning because they think they have to too belong and later regret transitioning,and they try to transition back or commit suicide..i know both sides of the aisle for ive been there done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    so if we are transexual we have to transition now? just wonder for not all ts's chose to transition for personal reasons. i hope this post isnt trolling.
    No one is saying that. Nobody will force you to transition. No one is better, or worse, than anyone else for transitioning or not transitioning. Some of us are simply unable to switch back and forth, or otherwise continue any part of our lives as male. When someone reaches a point where they can no longer tolerate such a life, that's "having to transition", and believe me, it's very real for some of us.

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    dont get me wrong i applaud those who have to transition because they cant stand their male side so they kill it off or better word amputate that part of themselves,some still feel that missing part while others dont. but ive seen plain vanilla cders jump on the ts bandwagon because they hear or see the transition or because ts's are allowed in cd meetings and feel thats the way to go and regret it,especially when they lose a supportive spouse and end up alone wondering what the hell happened. ive been somewhat accused of pretending on who i am,but im very aware of who i am.
    Last edited by Rianna Humble; 07-22-2015 at 05:31 AM. Reason: There is no need to quote the entire preceding post

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    they cant stand their male side so they kill it off or better word amputate that part of themselves
    It's simpler than all of that. I transitioned because I'm a woman, through and through.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    but ive seen plain vanilla cders jump on the ts bandwagon because they hear or see the transition or because ts's are allowed in cd meetings and feel thats the way to go and regret it,especially when they lose a supportive spouse and end up alone wondering what the hell happened.
    Cheryl, there are a number of reasons such a thing happens, in my opinion:
    1. People who really aren't good candidates for a traditional binary transition, but try to do it anyway, because it's the only thing they are aware of. Someone who is really gender fluid, for example, is only going to trade one dysphoric experience for another. The guidance many of us who are in transition, but are binary aligned, might give such a person may well be totally wrong for them.
    2. The pain they suffer from gender dysphoria is less than the pain transition brings to their lives.
    3. They perhaps have unrealistic expectations about what could go wrong. I caution people that they are likely to face discrimination of a sort most of them have never experienced. Isolation and loneliness is a common outcome - this is why I encourage engagement with the trans community. Losing a spouse is a near certainty, and many times, even if their marriage doesn't end, it's NOTHING like what it was before. Some of us don't find partners for several years.
    4. They lack resources and a plan to actually successfully complete their transition. Partially transitioning, and then stopping, is an excellent way to put yourself into an even worse situation than you were in before. I see this one happen all the time, particularly with younger people.
    5. Although the world is better to us than it used to be, the fact is, many of us will face just terrible abuse.
    6. Gender dysphoria is a terrible condition. Medical treatment for it is scarce, and it kills a lot of us. You expect a positive outcome for everyone who tries this? Some of us will die. Others of us will be murdered. Many will make it.

    As for this:

    because ts's are allowed in cd meetings and feel thats the way to go and regret it
    If you know of a person who you feel is making a horrible mistake by choosing transition - they are just a plain vanilla CD (note: most people don't consider CDs to be "vanilla"), please PM me, and I will give you my contact information and I will be GLAD to talk to them and help them in anyway that I can, including pointing them to highly competent local gender therapists. I wouldn't want anyone to make a terrible mistake. I think that trying to hide the existence of transsexuals by banning them from your group is counterproductive. We're on TV and the internet and stuff all the time now - it's hard to miss us. Likewise, if you know someone who seems to need transition, I would be very happy to talk with them. It's what I do.

  23. #23
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    so if we are transexual we have to transition now?
    No-one said that, you are only introducing it to cause arguments

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    i for one am very ts and could have chosen to transition at a early age but my love for women stopped me
    So you did not need to transition, then it is good that you didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    ive seen plain cders get trapped into transitioning because they think they have to too belong and later regret transitioning,and they try to transition back or commit suicide..
    So they ignored the oft-repeated advice given in this forum not to transition if you do not need to, found that there were things they valued more from their old life and didn't like it? That is a shame. If they had heeded the advice, or had sought professional help, they would not have begun transition in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheryl reeves View Post
    i know both sides of the aisle for ive been there done that.
    Actually, no you do not. According to your own words you have never transitioned.
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    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberly Kael View Post
    Paula, it's absolutely true and yet also somewhat heretical around here. .
    You rang? LOL

    It's not heretical in my view. In fact I welcome the success stories, but they must be HONEST. I know trans girls (personally) that are doing okay after transition. And I know some that are not. I don't know anyone who hasn't had to deal with significant issues though. Now, either I'm a magnet for hard cases or gender transition is a rough road.

    I love to see people have success in anything especially transition related stuff so I'm certainly not wishing tough times on anyone. My only concern is that people be 100% honest about what they're experiencing (good or bad) so the gals who are on the fence can gather useful data. Especially on this forum, so many have what I consider to be serious personality issues that could very easily contribute to a wrong headed decision to blow up their lives.

    I would love to hear more from you Kimberly because at the very least, I know you're real. (we have mutual friends) You have to admit that much of what passes for 'successful transitions' around here does kind of smell funny.
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  25. #25
    If only you could see me sarahcsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    Even then, I wasn't able to allow myself to consider the possibility of living openly as a woman. Today, I can envision a future that accommodates both the life I led and the one I hope to lead, in some measure. I don't know that I would call it a transition in the accepted meaning of the term, but it will certainly be different and more encompassing than the past.
    Kim,

    To me, that is already the greatest victory. We should not make transition our destinations because as many her have pointed out, it isn't for everybody. Maybe it was inappropriate due to financial issues, interpersonal issues, family issues, but I think it just boils to one thing; timing.

    The timing has to be just 'right'. Any earlier and we'll still be in conflict and doubt, any later and we'll uh... you know.

    Unfortunately, the right timing for transition doesn't occur for everyone.

    But if the goal of transition was to live a fuller life, then there are other ways to do that too. Sounds like you are doing that already.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    Virtually every aspect of my old life was superior to my present life, with one exception - I can stand to live my present life, despite it's issues.
    I think we do substitute one set of problems for another, except in our new lives, we feel more genuine and authentic about it.

    From what you have told us thus far, I really admire your courage. I hope things with your ex will settle soon enough...

    Quote Originally Posted by Starling View Post
    That issue is what I'm grappling with right now, and I can tell any young transgender woman yes, get plenty of advice and counseling, by all means be sure you really know yourself and what you'll be letting yourself in for; but when you're certain of who you really are, go ahead and make the leap, for your own sake and the sake of everyone you love. Don't waste your life in a lie. Believe me, all your accomplishments as a "male" will ultimately be like dust in your mouth.

    Lallie
    Awhile ago, I was involved in a thread about 'what advise to give young CDs' and it went something like what you said. I don't disagree with the advise, except I don't think the younger me would listen to the older me even if I laid down the bare facts in front of him.

    It is fine to give younger people advise but we should be very careful not to usurp their narrative and deprive them of their necessary experience to learn from life.

    In my case, I was young, ignorant, terrified of what my parents/friends/society would do to me, and most of all, I was in denial about my GD. No amount of 'advise' given to me would move me even if I went back in time to do so.

    Sometimes, we just have to give it time...

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Transition takes away everything and only gives you ONE thing back; Freedom. Don't transition unless you think that's a good trade.

    For me the freedom was worth everything.
    I'm glad you found your freedom. Priceless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Younger people have the advantage of more time in front of them then behind them, as well as physical advantages. I don't have advice for young people except; be true to yourself, you ain't gonna be young forever.
    You are right that young people have more time in front of them as well as the physical advantages, but they are also more naive and less financially capable to pursue their wishes (to transition).

    Young people are arguably more conflicted because of the crossroads they are at and the fear of potentially making a 'wrong' turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by gendermutt View Post
    Diane brought up something in the CD section about how younger people today are more likely to transition because of greater acceptance and awareness of trans issues. Most who are TS and are or have transitioned caution that transition should only be done if one feels they "have to"

    In coming to a point in ones life where one has to, by that time, typically, and I have read several people here describe hitting such horrible low points in life. contemplating or attempting suicide, crippling depression, substance abuse, failed marriages, jobs etc etc... Many here regret those dark years and think, if only they had come to grips with it all and not fought themselves, they would have saved many years where life was anything but pleasant.

    I myself fought my own femininity for nearly 30 years. I do not consider transition for 2 reasons. 1st, It would all but destroy 30 plus years worth of adult life that I have built, and second, because while frustrating at times, my life as a male is bearable. I don't have to...
    Hi gendermutt,

    There is sometimes merit in 'waiting' when it comes to making major life changing decisions but I'd generally say that only applies to younger people (ie. age 40 or less).

    Awhile ago I proposed a theory about how our 'life stages' will affect the way we perceive our lives and the direction in which we're heading and people in different life stages would want different things. Yes, that includes transitioning.

    I agree that people tend to wait for long periods of time, often times after enduring lots of hardships and torture, becoming finally willing to do something about it.

    Your two reasons is exactly why I did not choose to transition earlier too, and the reason why I've decided to take HRT now is because the time in my life is 'right' for it, but most importantly, the time was 'wrong' if I were to do it earlier. I would have been deprived of a lot of necessary skills and experience if I were to do it earlier, and maybe even traumatized more than is necessary.

    ================================================== =======

    The idea of transitioning because 'we have to', sounds as though one is being coerced (ie. by suicide or extreme dissatisfaction).

    Sure, perhaps one has to endure the painful 'wait' before the timing is right to transition but I think the idea of transitioning because 'we have to' has to be reframed.

    I'd encourage people to embrace the idea that transitioning is ultimately is free choice.

    This may sound polarizing because those who have been through worse will probably say "I had no choice!!".

    Well... you do. Maybe it is hard to see it when emotions are running high, but we all have choices. Even suicide is a choice.

    I say this because I believe it is better to own our decision (to transition) and take responsibility for it rather than blaming it on the dysphoria. The dysphoria is there only because you haven't done anything about it!

    Transitioning is a big step and those who have transitioned out of free will probably fare better after because they did so willingly.

    These people probably understand and appreciate the 'freedom' that Badtranny was talking about. Freedom, free choice.

    Ayn Rand said, "the question isn't who is going to let me, but who is going to stop me." Realistically speaking, nobody is stopping us but ourselves. But we wouldn't proceed because we won't take responsibility for the consequences that may follow.

    And to remedy the situation, we must also appreciate and take responsibility for the consequences of our inaction.



    Love,
    S
    Last edited by sarahcsc; 07-22-2015 at 10:08 AM. Reason: spelling and grammar
    "The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me" - Ayn Rand

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