Transition because you have to?

[Michelle.M]

I would take issue with the idea of a transitioner finally convincing themself of anything other than the futility of continuing to fight the need to live an authentic life.

Futile, perhaps, but people learn to live with all sorts of conditions without going through otherwise accepted or even prescribed interventions.

There are all sorts of reasons why people who are gender dysphoric do not transition, just as there are all sorts of reasons why people transition partially, surgically, non-surgically, or exhibit a gender non-specific presentation.

As always, one size does not fit all.

[Tina_gm]

Rianna, I think society is playing a large part of all of this. Take gigi gorgeous, who was once known as gregory gorgeous. 30 years ago, then gregory never would have been as out as he was about being gay, or his need for dressing. If you haven't heard of her, she is a very public mtf, who is or has undergone transition. Her transition was hardly a surprise I am sure. But many decades ago, then gregory would have likely hid themselves, and their gender and sexuality from the public. Would have likely portrayed a straight male and gotten married, had kids, basically created a life of a "normal" man. Eventually the woman inside would have won out.

Today, and being from Canada, where all of this is much more accepted anyway, gigi never went through what so many here have and suffered countless years not being their authentic selves. Of course, not all knew it when they were younger, but that again is a product of society. Had it not been for such pressure from society to conform to the standard male/female divide Many here would have who didn't know would have known, far sooner.

I am certain gigi felt the need to transition just like anyone else who transitions, however, having seen any of her videos, especially the earlier ones on youtube, She definitely has not gone through what so many here in midlife have had to. Her life prior to transtion was still far more authentic and probably livable then what most mid life transitioners have had to go through.

[Marleena]

Marleena, a lot of what you posted is sort of where I am coming from in this thread. For whatever reason, those of us who held in our gender issues or identity for decades and built an entire life and family, then have to choose which pain to deal with. Perhaps in the case of several here who have transitioned or are in the process of it later in life (40+) y/o the pain of dealing with such a drastic life altering path is less severe than staying as they are, or were. In these cases, the choice was not really a choice. In order to have any type of life at all, transition is a must.

I agree totally with that, for most TS people it is a must to transition at some point and that is clearly shown throughout the posts made here in this section. I'm not anti-transition at all. I do however caution people that it can be very difficult. Every situation is different and must be done in the hopes of a good outcome which is where a good gender therapist comes in. Like I said I envy those that do transition. I also understand some cannot or will not transition or hold off as long as possible for various reasons.

[DebbieL]

I agree totally with that, for most TS people it is a must to transition at some point and that is clearly shown throughout the posts made here in this section. I'm not anti-transition at all. I do however caution people that it can be very difficult. Every situation is different and must be done in the hopes of a good outcome which is where a good gender therapist comes in. Like I said I envy those that do transition. I also understand some cannot or will not transition or hold off as long as possible for various reasons.

I have written two books about what happens when someone who is intensely transgendered - a 5 or 6 on the Benjamin scale - is prevented from transitioning.

Many of us have been FORCED to be men for years, even decades. But most of us who are more severely transgender have a really hard time with it. It's as hard for us to remember not to giggle, or cry, or cross our legs at the ankles or dozens of other feminine motions and interactions - as it would be for a cis-gender alpha male to try and learn to cross his legs properly and do the hundreds of other feminine things we aren't even aware of.

The form of the persecution depends on our age. In Elementary school or grade school, we get targeting because we are "Sissies". In Jr High and early high school we get targeted because they assume that we are homosexual - often because we are feminine and they see it as effeminate. A normal cis-gender alpha male doesn't understand the subtle differences between being a man who wants another man, and a transgender woman who wants a man to treat her as a woman, or even wants a woman to treat her as a woman. When people would ask me if I was gay, I would say "Yes, I'm a lesbian". Only the women who ACTUALLY went to bed with me realized that I was telling the truth.

Some of the barriers to transition that I have personally experienced include:
- Doctors and therapists saying "It's just a phase, he'll outgrow it"
- We can treat that with therapy (shock, torture, lobotomy, drugs...) - he'll just be a zombie
- If you sell your house, you will have enough to pay for most of the procedures (but not all)
- It's illegal to do that in this state.
- You'll never fall in love
- You'll never be able to have children
- You'll never see your kids again
- You will lose your job and be black-listed.
- If anyone finds out, they will kill you
- Your family won't accept you
- My family won't accept you
- You won't have any friends.
- If you go to prison you'll get raped every day.
- You'll have to move to another city
- You'll have to move to another state
- You'll have to move to another country
- Even after you transition - you'll still be an ugly guy in a dress


Of course, those of us who have actually transitioned have discovered that nearly ALL of that was nonsense being spouted by people who were either totally ignorant, horribly misinformed, or decided that pro-transgender theories such as Dr Benjamin - were hogwash.

Would you go to your dentist for legal advice?
Would you go to your lawyer for heart surgery?

Yet we too often go to misguided or misinformed guides, coaches, doctors, or counselors who don't know what they are talking about when treating Gender Dysphoria.

[Tina_gm]

Marleena, a good point about various reasons why some may wish to transition but don't. Typically, those reasons are a life that has been created. A wife, kids, home, career..... Things almost all 19 or 20 year olds do not have. 30 years ago, there was more society issues than there is today, so even those who were that age 30 years ago, they were or would have been much more considered outcast, unemployable to just about everywhere. Most of their peers would not accept them as friends or potential partners. While society is still far from totally accepting, it is different today for those just entering adulthood. So, those who are just becoming adults do not have a lot of hills to climb, or not nearly as much to consider other than themselves when it comes to transition. Without all of the barriers, the feeling of having to would be harder to truly be felt.

For those of us who have a strong feminine identity, but yet those barriers I mention make us decide not to transition of any real extent, then the logic is that we are not TS. I am not going to argue that. It is a fine way to determine what makes someone TS, that the regular life situations keep someone from making drastic gender changes in their life. But, remove those barriers, and the decisions might be different.

[stefan37]

As long as you have a GD comfort level that can be mitigated and still have quality of life. Then you can make that decision to transition or not. The thing about GD is. It is controllable until it's not. At that point no matter what your circumstances. Living authentically will be the only way to supress GD to an extent and have any quality of life.
It's an important point and why we are so hard on those that insist they are TS. But can make a conscious choice not to pursue transition because of external influences such as kids, marriage, work etc. It's not that we are elite, it think we are better. It's the fact our GD could only be mitigated by transitioning.
I would trade this entire experience to have been born male not ever having issues with my identity.

[Marleena]

Marleena, a good point about various reasons why some may wish to transition but don't. Typically, those reasons are a life that has been created. A wife, kids, home, career..... Things almost all 19 or 20 year olds do not have. 30 years ago, there was more society issues than there is today, so even those who were that age 30 years ago, they were or would have been much more considered outcast, unemployable to just about everywhere. Most of their peers would not accept them as friends or potential partners. While society is still far from totally accepting, it is different today for those just entering adulthood. .

No question the best time to transition is before puberty of course. Times are changing for the better and the younger ones are able to find and get help that us older people couldn't find.

As far as who is TS or not is a topic I wish to avoid like the plague. People who I thought weren't turned out to be TS or are at least transitioning.

I believe I'm TS as I identify as female but I'm trying just the HRT route for now. It is working out okay but I do have bad days where I just want to give up. So it might only be temporary relief and I was warned. Right now I have a "perfect storm" going on where transition would be a mistake for me and my family both. I will never accept that I'm a man though. There is an undercurrent in the TS community where if you don't transition you get the "you're not like me" comments or you get shunned so you need to be ready for it. I just had to do something to get the GD under control.

Stefan (above) and some others and myself have said we rather be Cis-anything rather than go through this crap.

Oh... as far as having more invested in your life as an older person, for sure, Caitlyn Jenner (as an example) decided to transition only after her daughters were old enough to take care of themselves. Many of us put off for long as possible dealing with ourselves. Of course things just get messier.

[Tina_gm]

I continue to be intriqued by the what if.... when I was 20 some 30 years ago, and I rather than fight my femininity, decided to just completely let go and let it go where ever it goes. I still cannot say for certain where that place is. For only myself, the sexual aspect (as male) would be something I may likely not give up. That would also keep me from going the HRT route. So, I am thinking the most likely scenario is living most or full time but without HRT or GRS... but then who knows.... because once living full time I might change my mind on that?? The feminizing effects of HRT with very young adults seems to be stronger than of someone my age. If I was to live full time, I would want to be not seen as just some man in a dress, so the whole thing can make my head spin.

Right now, my only serious GD seems to be body hair, which I shave. Other than that, I do not suffer much from it. I seem to feel more of an envy of women rather than a hatred of myself as a man. So, I could very well be just a CDer with a strong feminine aspect, and I am fine with that, if that is really where I am, which I have not really felt all that much different in the 2 and a half years since I began to come to grips with all this. My only difference is I am seeing that I am more feminine than I originally thought, and that I do now feel it to be harder often to conceal my femininity now that I have accepted it.

I do wonder a lot lately though, without any barriers, where would this all take me.... I do know that I could live as a woman, and I think in general, life might be easier for me. I do not see it as a necessity though. So, transition, in some form, perhaps not fully with GRS, or even that who knows.... it would not be something I have to do but it could possibly make my life easier to live.....

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Intrigued??
you don't resonate as a transsexual
of course i am not a mind reader, its just an educated guess...

if you are a transsexual

every moment you spend mulling and fantasizing and wondering is a another squeeze of the towel...and the water drips...and then one day.... no more water... at that point you are F$$$'d

stop squeezing the towel....

[Tina_gm]

Kaityn, that is sort of the point I guess. I do not consider myself TS. I do consider myself to be TG though, I do feel a real feminine presence that goes beyond dressing. Dual gendered perhaps. I do feel that the feminine aspects of me are stronger than the masculine aspects. Overall I seem to be more comfortable when it comes to feminine aspects. Often on the CD forum, many ask tips on how to act more feminine. All of the tips and subjects seem very natural to me. If anything, I could use tips on how to conceal it lol.

At the same time, I do not feel a need to transition. I do not hate my male anatomy, and very much enjoy sex as a man. I do not dress for sexual reasons, it is all a relaxing comfortable experience for me really. I do feel that if I was a woman, or lived as one and was accepted fully as one, my life would likely be easier, or more comfortable. To do so, to transition now would cause me more distress than what I feel not being a woman.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

makes sense and it sounds like you are in apretty good place

[Badtranny]

I do feel that if I was a woman, or lived as one and was accepted fully as one, my life would likely be easier, or more comfortable.

There is NOTHING about transition that is easier or more comfortable than just being a dude who who has some gender issues.

[Dianne S]

Melissa

Really? If that's the case, then why transition?

I find I'm much more comfortable than before.

[Badtranny]

Really? If that's the case, then why transition?

Freedom. I'd prefer to derail my old life for the privilege of being free to be me. No more closets no more secrets.

Everybody has a different experience, but for me, I wouldn't use 'comfortable' as a descriptor of my transition so far.

[emma5410]

Melissa

Amen to that. If you can find some way of being happy without stepping off the cliff then do it because the alternative is very tough

[Kaitlyn Michele]

comfort can be a function of circumstances that aren't exactly related to transition..

being comfortable in your skin and in your freedom doesnt mean you get a comfortable existence ...

[stefan37]

A lot of what is written here by those that have lived it sometimes comes across as superiority or is viewed as elitism. In reality it is a learned experience.
The beginning year if transition is a very heady one. There is the sense of liberation. Finally getting to live your identity. You want to tell the entire world. Many still live part-time. There is acceptance and rejection. Then you legally changed your name and gender in legal documents. You start to really come out to the world as your authentic self. Maybe you've had some surgical procedures to help with the external presentation. You feel more confident and experience some comfort. Comfort that you are no longer hiding.

But there is still discomfort. Discomfort that society doesn't accurately reflect your female identity back. Yeah they are respectful, but they really don't think of you as female. There is something off. ( I'm not speaking to casual encounters at a store or restaurant). I'm speaking about interacting with Cis individuals in professional, of social organizations. The realization that they are respectful and accepting. But still don't truly believe your female. You are comfortable with who you are. There is discomfort because you are not fully embraced as the woman you feel to be.
Happiness is another relative feeling. I get that alot. You must be happier now. Well yeah. I am happy I get the freedom to show my identity. But there is tremendous sadness. Blowing up my 31 year marriage and throwing my ex wife's life in disarray. Watching her deal with her husband's transition to female and watching the sadness she experiences. Powerless to help. Depriving my daughter the opportunity to have her dad walk her down the aisle at her wedding and having that first dance. Yeah I probably will have that opportunity, but the experience for her will not be same. Nor will that be same for her mother or family. It will be different.

I accept who I am and the BS it entails. It's great to allow my identity the freedom to show the world who I am. To never again hide my identity. But I would absolutely trade it in a heartbeat to be a cis identified male with zero identity issues. Or even if I could still live as I did for many years as a male with some gender issues that could be mitigated with part time expression.
Transition is hard. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm also finding that 2 years full-time. It is harder. Mainly because you feel you should be unequivocally accepted as female. But it doesn't always happen that way.

I may find after Srs. It becomes more difficult. Surgical complications, pain and dealing with now what. So much emphasis and energy focused on the physical aspect and shared on the social aspect. Now all energy will need to focused on the social acclimation and integration.

[Marleena]

That's a great post Stefan, and pretty much sums up the issues to be faced.

I was regretting posting in this thread until another member pointed out to me that I may have helped the OP obtain clarity on their own gender issues.

Now if one is truly TS and does not transition at some point -->(Melissa quote) "you're in for a whole lot of hurt".

[Tina_gm]

Hi again, just for clarification. I am not thinking or suggesting that the process of transition would ever be a comfortable one. I do wonder at times if I was born a woman, would my life be more comfortable. The process to become one, and the consequences are too much for me to go through. That would strongly suggest I am not ts, and I don't consider myself ts anyway.

Also, CDERS do still go through much frustration from their own gender isdues. I am never suggesting as much as ts women, but anyone with gender issues has got a tough road for them.

Times are changing, and I wonder if perhaps the ways of thinking about transition should be changing as well.

[stefan37]

Your life and life experiences would be different. No guarantee that it would be more comfortable. Also your perspective is one from living with GD. If you were born Cis female with zero GD issues. Your life may have actually been more challenging and you most likely would have other issues.

Grass is always greener until you get there. Then it's as brown and shriveled from that you left.

[Rachel Smith]

But there is still discomfort. Discomfort that society doesn't accurately reflect your female identity back. Yeah they are respectful, but they really don't think of you as female. There is something off. ( I'm not speaking to casual encounters at a store or restaurant). I'm speaking about interacting with Cis individuals in professional, of social organizations. The realization that they are respectful and accepting. But still don't truly believe your female. You are comfortable with who you are. There is discomfort because you are not fully embraced as the woman you feel to be.
Happiness is another relative feeling. I get that alot. You must be happier now. Well yeah. I am happy I get the freedom to show my identity. But there is tremendous sadness. Blowing up my 31 year marriage and throwing my ex wife's life in disarray. Watching her deal with her husband's transition to female and watching the sadness she experiences. Powerless to help. Depriving my daughter the opportunity to have her dad walk her down the aisle at her wedding and having that first dance. Yeah I probably will have that opportunity, but the experience for her will not be same. Nor will that be same for her mother or family. It will be different.

I accept who I am and the BS it entails. It's great to allow my identity the freedom to show the world who I am. To never again hide my identity. But I would absolutely trade it in a heartbeat to be a cis identified male with zero identity issues. Or even if I could still live as I did for many years as a male with some gender issues that could be mitigated with part time expression.
Transition is hard. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I'm also finding that 2 years full-time. It is harder. Mainly because you feel you should be unequivocally accepted as female. But it doesn't always happen that way.

Stefan I made a post in my journal today but you said it much better then I. After 2 1/2 years full-time I feel I will never be more then a male with breasts. This is a hard realization to come to grips with and that is a struggle more then the weight gain I spoke of in my journal. I just wanted to thank you for expressing so precisely what I could not. It is also a comfort to know I am not the only one with these feelings.

Thank you
Rachel

[Dianne S]

I wouldn't use 'comfortable' as a descriptor of my transition so far.

Hmm. I might, actually. I feel more comfortable in my own skin, for sure. And I have a supportive family and am reconnecting with old friends from way back. It's been a very positive experience thus far. Admittedly, I'm not very far into it, having started my transition about 19 months ago and only been full-time for about 4 months. So maybe I'm in for a rude awakening... who knows?

[Tina_gm]

We seem to be getting into a discussion about how hard transition can be, granted, I have no doubt from what any of you say that it is incredibly hard. As Stefan said, how hard it is after a 31 year marriage, the dissaray, the daughter who will not have the father figure she had all her life. That IS part of what makes transition so hard I would think. Remove all those types of issues..... But how do people really know they have to transition without going through all that? Sure, some will know they are female identified. But is it just better that they transition at a young age, and not go through the disruption of decades of life and marriage or other partnerships? Will people, at a younger age be more content with not going through a full transition, GRS and all? I sometimes wonder, with acceptance now gaining, if people were to accept someone without so much hatred and rejection, someone living as a woman, but not becoming one fully, would they still go through a full transition? Is it easier to go through a full transition with the way society is today rather than just having people accept them as living as a woman, without physically becoming one? I am sure some will still have enough GD that they will gladly rid themselves of all male anatomy. But will it be the same percentage in say 10 years from now as acceptance of transgender grows? Just some thoughts to knock around here.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

its just speculating and wishing.... you cant go back...most of us didn't consider transition an option...so we survived...and tried to live as males..

frankly we are the proof of concept...

if you can live as a male, that's what you should do...otherwise do something else... heh pretty simple

to me there is one question... do you want to feel like you've lived a life?? (YOUR LIFE)....yes or no?? if you are a woman and live it out as a man then its no...
if you can feel like you are living your life, honestly and authentically as a man, then obviously you are not a woman....

the problem is the reality of facing such a huge existential question and dealing with it.

in the future its likely to be easier on people but that doesn't help me right now...

[stefan37]

Regardless of his I felt I might be transsexual. I denied it. I identified as a crossdresser. Transition was so off the radar. There could be no way I would transition. I knew even exploring that option would cause distress with the wife. I never even heard of GD. I had that inner urge to feminize and project that. I developed anxiety and felt I was on a runaway train. I learned in therapy and on this forum I could lose it all. But it got to the point I was going thru the motions and life had no meaning. I had a great family, loving wife, solid marriage. Good business and able to make a living. None of that mattered. I needed to see if estrogen would help. 3 days on estrogen and the anxiety was gone. That confirmed to me estrogen was what my brain and body needed. The rest is history. I'm sure my story is similar to many others that needed to transition.