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Thread: Is Katlin More

  1. #1
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    Is Katlin More

    Is Katlin Jenner more accepted than your average CD ? I think yes, of course she's had the money to have had the very best surgeons, tailored clothes, makeup artist and advice on being a woman and yes her celebrity. For a comparison, if Katlin was to appear and speak at a mall she would draw a crowd and be well accepted, but if a week before a CD was walking through that same mall she would receive some negative looks and maybe negative comments. Let's hope Katlin is making CDing more accepted. Is society changing???

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    I doubt it, but media acceptance appears to be, and the way things are going, it is tantamount to the same. Still, the nasty stares will still be there. That was a resounding maybe lol.

  3. #3
    Just a touch of class Lynn Marie's Avatar
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    Caitlin Jenner has the money, fame, and the courage to do this right. She's raising the bar for all of us.

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    BEING YOUnique is AWESOME Princess Chantal's Avatar
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    I just don't see Caitlyn as a crossdresser as she doesn't label and describe herself as one.

  5. #5
    Silver Member I Am Paula's Avatar
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    Caitlyn does not wear Versace, and spend six hours in makeup to go to the mall. Or does she?
    Despite some flack from the trans groups that she bought her beauty, and is not a realistic role model for transwomen, she is good for the community. Most cis celebrities are not good role models to the cis community.
    One cannot compare her acceptance with that of the rest of us. Also, Caitlyn is not a cross dresser. She is a woman thru, and thru.

  6. #6
    How did that happen ? Samantha2015's Avatar
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    It seems Caitlyn wants to live as a woman 24/7 365 so she's not just a CD.
    I think she's more TG/TS. She's already had surgery's to be more femme.
    I don't think many CDs will go that far. I know I will not.
    Hugs
    Samantha

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    Crossdressers will gain more acceptance when they come out, live openly, and talk about who they are. Caitlyn is doing a great service to the trans community, particularly those who transition. But for CDs, since everyone on TV is tripping all over themselves to distinguish trans women from CDs, I don't think this will have so much impact unless more of you are visible.

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Caitlyn is accepted by the media because she is TS (or as they prefer to call it, TG). If she were a he and a CDer in the sense that she wanted to retain male gender identity and switch back and forth (appearing as a woman in public occasionally but as Bruce the rest of the time), I think the media would not know what to do with that. Honestly I think a lot of people would say WTF. Caitlyn knows this and this is why she did not appear as Caitlyn until her full-time transition.

    IMO it's easier for people to understand someone who was born in the wrong body and who is correcting this. This person is still part of the gender-binary that the world understands. It's not so easy to understand a person who identifies male but who enjoys presenting as a female outside of the stage (people do understand Drag Queens who dress for show or gay men who dress as women).
    Reine

  9. #9
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Most of this has been said before but it's worthy of emphasis...

    1) Caitlyn is not just a CD - and what is 'your average CD' anyway...?
    2) While TS folk (like Caitlyn) and CDers may be related, we are not the same - does it help CDing? Perhaps - I don't suppose it will do the entire CD/TG community any damage by raising awareness
    3) Caitlyn would have drawn something of a crowd at a mall probably while she was still Bruce because of who she was and the family she's in - she's already a celeb.

    Just one thing strikes me as odd through all this - given that the USA in general places great store in the pursuit of wealth and the measure of an individual is very often attenuated to their personal net worth, how come so many people are quick to focus on both her expenditure on herself and her ability to earn more through her celebrity status as being negative aspects..?? The trans politics of envy, perhaps...

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD
    IMO it's easier for people to understand someone who was born in the wrong body and who is correcting this. This person is still part of the gender-binary that the world understands.
    I agree, although I would point out that not all trans people who undergo gender transition correspond well to the gender binary / cisgender norms. But yes, it is much easier to understand someone like Caitlyn who's just a woman, end of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD
    It's not so easy to understand a person who identifies male but who enjoys presenting as a female outside of the stage (people do understand Drag Queens who dress for show or gay men who dress as women).
    I agree here too, gender fluid people are very hard for most of us to understand. I disagree that people understand drag queens. Some number of drag queens transition. I know several, locally who have. (I know, here I go again saying scary sounding things!)

    I really don't think the average person, straight or gay, understands why DQs feel the need to do what they do. They just know that "oh, ok, drag queens are a thing" because they have become extremely visible. I think a lot of straight people think a gay man would dress as a woman to try to sleep with men, which would of course be sort of silly and counterproductive.

  11. #11
    Yeah Ok like whatever Tracii G's Avatar
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    Who knows what will happen so I'm not going to change anything I do.
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  12. #12
    Cyber Girl Bridget Ann Gilbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katey888 View Post
    Just one thing strikes me as odd through all this - given that the USA in general places great store in the pursuit of wealth and the measure of an individual is very often attenuated to their personal net worth, how come so many people are quick to focus on both her expenditure on herself and her ability to earn more through her celebrity status as being negative aspects..?? The trans politics of envy, perhaps...

    Katey x
    Americans as a culture do celebrate gaining wealth and fame, but it has to be done in a certain way, usually through hard work, innovation, or great talent. Thus as Bruce she was celebrated for her athletic accomplishments. There is less respect for being an outlandish reality TV star. I think the only reason her family is still on TV is because a lot of folk over here enjoy feeling superior to the Kardashians. In spite of their wealth they are views as shallow, insecure people and that's the appeal. Of course that doesn't explain how others have become famous by being outlandish, e.g. Howard Stern. Face it, we Yanks are almost impossible to understand.

    Bridget
    Last edited by Katey888; 07-27-2015 at 05:07 PM. Reason: Fixed quote box

  13. #13
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    Caitlin Jenner is pretty much a circus act at this point. Magazine covers, a TV show, TV interviews, etc. I don't think this is making society more accepting of crossdressers or transgender people. What I do see is division. People who would have just ignored the subject are now posting jokes on Facebook and making disparaging comments. The rest of us without money or fame are not gaining anything from this.

  14. #14
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    I've been questioning people in my life about their opinions of Caitlyn, in an attempt to understand how she is really viewed outside of the media articles that are largely supportive. So a few days ago I had dinner with a female friend who is hugely open-minded and who has L, G, and T friends. Her opinion of Caitlyn was negative. She would have respected Caitlyn more if Caitlyn had had a quiet, less flamboyant coming out and had not been associated with flashy magazine covers, reality shows, etc. I told my friend that Caitlyn is putting herself in the limelight because she wants the world to understand the plight of young transsexuals among whom suicide rates are high due to social non-acceptance. My friend replied that many of us have horrible and difficult things to deal with and that TSs are no exception.

    I'm not saying I agree with her ... I think it is good for Caitlyn to use her renown to be a spokesperson for the plight of TSs. But, I do agree that it might be done less flamboyantly and with less focus on the "trappings" of femininity, i.e. hair, clothes, and boobs. It would be nice to take the "Hollywood" out of it. BTW my friend knows about my SO and is supportive.
    Reine

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    I agree, although I would point out that not all trans people who undergo gender transition correspond well to the gender binary / cisgender norms. But yes, it is much easier to understand someone like Caitlyn who's just a woman, end of story.



    I agree here too, gender fluid people are very hard for most of us to understand. I disagree that people understand drag queens. Some number of drag queens transition. I know several, locally who have. (I know, here I go again saying scary sounding things!)

    I really don't think the average person, straight or gay, understands why DQs feel the need to do what they do. They just know that "oh, ok, drag queens are a thing" because they have become extremely visible. I think a lot of straight people think a gay man would dress as a woman to try to sleep with men, which would of course be sort of silly and counterproductive.
    I am really coming to greatly respect your observations. As to Jenner, well - look she has always been a media presence in one way or another, has hooked up with those people, and so the result really is not that surprising. Regrettable, but she does serve a good cause. Sounds a bit nasty sit back and say, oh well, you're an idiot, but you are helping so go for it.

    I could not have done that. I take enormous risks as it is, but not that, so I must subsume my cowardice into admiration for the media glare that she endures, even while she courts it.

  16. #16
    Country Gal.... Megan G's Avatar
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    Well I would hardly call Caitlyn Jenner a circus act, she is a celebrity that is transitioning so of course there is going to be lots and lots of media attention.

    Is Caitlyn helping people become more understanding of Transsexual issues? ABSOLUTELY!!! I can speak from personal experience that yes she has raised awareness. As a transitioning TS that lives in a rural small town her story helped make my young son understand that there are more people like daddy out there with the same medical problem. In many conversations with my friends Caitlyn Jenners name has come up and it has helped my friends on some level. My one Aunt downloaded the Dianne Sawyer interview and gave copies to family members that were having issues with my transition. So in a nut shell yes she is making a difference, the full effect has yet to be seen...

    Now the OP asked if she would help people become more accepting of CD'ers. my guess is probably not since she is not a crossdresser. There may be some residual effects that cd'ers might notice but in all honesty the only way that your going to get more acceptance is if you step out of your closet and be seen. The conversation right now is focused on Transsexuals...
    I'm outta here...

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    I heard somewhere she still has the same plumbing as a CD, but if I had her money I would have it removed. As far as helping the CD's I don't she has to her it about being paid to be seen and to make a mockery out of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deebra View Post
    Let's hope Katlin is making CDing more accepted.
    I think there are benefits for crossdressers, but it's indirect. By having a transsexual in the news, one that we knew in her former life and now through her transition, it exposes people to ways of being beyond heterosexuals, lesbian, gays and bisexuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by I Am Paula View Post
    Despite some flack from the trans groups that she bought her beauty, and is not a realistic role model for transwomen, she is good for the community.
    There is this question:

    How many women of means would decide against plastic surgery and say "No thanks, I'd rather stay ugly."?

    DeeAnn

  19. #19
    Member Ilsa's Avatar
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    Why is it that I have more support and respect for a story about the turmoil that a child goes through growing up transgender as presented on "Frontline' and PBS than I do about a 65 year old on "Entertainment Tonight' who's worried about what she is going to wear at a Culture Club concert.
    Last edited by Ilsa; 07-27-2015 at 07:05 PM.

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    Presumed innocence I would suspect.

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilsa View Post
    Why is it that I have more support and respect for a story about the turmoil that a child goes through growing up transgender as presented on "Frontline' and PBS than I do about a 65 year old on "Entertainment Tonight' who's worried about what she is going to wear at a Culture Club concert.
    That's my point too. She doesn't give me the impression she is in touch with the average person, especially young TSs who are likely at the poverty line due to an inability to get jobs and the high cost of transition. Less flamboyance and preoccupation with looks and what to wear, and fewer comments on "what us girls need to go through to look beautiful" would be a good thing.
    Reine

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    I don't see how Ms. Jenner is really going to be in touch with young transsexuals when she is 2 generations removed. I don't think that's going to work.

    Further, I don't understand the criticism about how she looks when I don't remember anything being said about how Janet Mock, Lana Wachowski, Geena Rocero, Laverne Cox, and many others, dressed. It feels like a double standard and it seems odd to single out Ms. Jenner.

    DeeAnn

  23. #23
    Senior Member MissTee's Avatar
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    I think a lot of things will happen because of Caitlyn. Those on the far right will use her to show what's wrong with her. Those on the far left will use her to show what's right about her. Those in the middle -- and quite likely the largest group -- will gain more awareness and perhaps a little more tolerance of those who are different. That will be a good thing for all of us.

  24. #24
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Interesting how some doubt the sincerity of someone who is famous now. She isn't a circus act. My feeling is she is at this point very genuine (and if she isn't she is a great actress). Get off the money kick. If you all had it you would be so far away from here it would be smoking behind you. I question how many here could stand the scrutiny she has weathered.

    As far as the teen and younger trans people and connecting, I honestly wold be at a loss to have a conversation with them about virtually ANYTHING except the fact that we share being Trans. I mean really people, who blazes the trail? It isn't a young peer, it is us old geezers. So do we have to have someone 2o something come out and wave a flag? This is new territory, some of the paths we oldsters have already walked, so why not let us at least be a beacon? My mission right now is to try and smooth the trail for those who follow....are you going to limit me to my age group?

    I see a lot of jealousy here. It is a wasted emotion. It isn't the money. Lots of people have money...it's a platform. Is she good for CDs? (And remember most regular people don't know a CD from a TS), yes, she is getting your SO's to talk to you. Getting your peers at the office to start thinking that the T community isn't clowns and perverts. Allowing parents to see that there are more T's out there than their child and that they have support.

    Is she good for the community? You're talking about her. That is a step ahead of where we were a year ago. We are now on a ledge, if she messes up, we all fall. If she doesn't we all get to go to the next level. I am cheering for the next level
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  25. #25
    Cyber Girl Bridget Ann Gilbert's Avatar
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    I get the sense that Caitlyn is conflicted herself. On the one side she has to deal with the practical realities of supporting herself and is using the only means she's known for years: her celebrity. To maintain public interest she feels she has to play the glam card because that's what sells. On the other side, she's also the person who came from a humble background, worked incredibly hard to succeed on the international sports stage, and learned from that experience the importance of being a positive roll model to others. I've read her blogs and watched some of her post-transition interviews.She comes across to me as someone genuinely interested in doing things the right way, and I support her efforts. How effective they will be remains to be seen. I do wonder what she is going to go through when the spotlight moves on to the next shiney object. Will she have enough people in her life to give her that sense of love and belonging we all want?

    Bridget
    Last edited by Bridget Ann Gilbert; 07-28-2015 at 12:20 AM.

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