Two weeks at work . . . jazz hands, marginalized, comfy shoes and bare arms

[Katey888]

While Isha thinks she gave up her male card. The gender fluidity she exhibits allows the male to show when needed. To truly be accepted as female. So when expressing as female, there needs to be a way to take control as a female and not as a male. But then again that fluidity will allow switching back and forth regardless of external presentation.

Hi Stefan - it's for Isha to answer, but I don't get the feeling she thinks she gave up her male card - perhaps even on 'female' days..? I think I'd see this as one of the differentiating aspects of being gender fluid - she won't/ can't be accepted as female because of the switching back and forth, but at the same time it confers some advantage of being able to lapse to male-mode to some degree, when required. I don't think this makes her (or any of us) any less authentic, it's just an aspect of complexity about us and the way we relate to the world in a variable rather than fixed-binary way.

More difficult in some ways - not so in others... Almost certainly more complicated when personal or professional relationships are involved and certainly ground-breaking... (possibly perceived 'ball-breaking' by some male colleagues, somewhat ironically... )

Katey x

[stefan37]

Isha herself had suggested she gave up her male card. And as I stated. She is far more authentic and living it than most can or will. I have great admiration for anybody that comes out professionally or socially. I know from personal experience how difficult and disruptive it can be.

[Candice June Lee]

Isha, I love this. My job isnt one that takes to females easily. Dirt, grease, sharp edges, and such. So the girls have to undo make upand nails. So presentkng as a female for is out of the question at work. Though i, like you have come to terms on my upper body. My wife supportive, and i havnt crossed a threshold of more fem presentation. But i dont look all that fem in upper areas of my body. So i have to just accept how i am and be comfy and happy presenting as fem as i can. Still gotta work the make up thjng more.
Glad to see you can present at work, it sounds great, and you have over come some fears that i and others may not have conquered yet.
Glad your having a blast with it as it sounds.

[Persephone]

Isha,

You are incredible! You constantly have my admiration every day.

As to the events you described, I'm afraid you've fallen through the looking glass and are now seeing the world from the other side. My spouse, prior to her retirement, was a high ranking executive in a cutting-edge military-industrial firm dominated by engineers. Every time I complain about guys talking over me as if I'm not there she simply says, "Welcome to my world."

It takes a lot of skill to overcome that as a woman. I'm confident that you will learn the tricks and will soon have the men eating out of the palm of your hand... you know, like feeding pigeons.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Jodi]

I don't know about Canada,but here in the states, we are allowed to go sleeveless. We have a constitutional right to "bare arms". (lol)

Jodi

[Marcelle]

Hi Stefan,

WRT giving up my male card, you are correct in that I stated something along that lines in another post but it was more about "male privilege" and that being able to play the "male card" would be difficult once people have seen me presenting as a woman . I guess resorting to male voice was my one way to get everyone's attention and no doubt this was their attempt to co-opt the meeting to their way of thinking . . . they did not like what I had do say and so I truly believe they thought "heck he's dressed like a woman so perhaps he'll be a push over". In a way I let them go a bit too long and should have shut them down immediately . . . I won't be making that mistake again .

As far as acting like a male vice a female, there really isn't much difference except the voice (and as I said it is not that stellar), mannerisms and clothing. My personality does not change and I interact the same as a woman as I would as a man. It is not like I hulked up to the front of the meeting room in my best John Wayne walk, spit some tobacco on the ground and challenged all to an arm wrestle. It was the following sentence which ended the side bar conversation:

"Gentleman, in what Narnia reality do you believe that the military is a democracy. I am the subject matter expert and ranking officer at this table so this is a matter of me on send and you on receive. If you are uncomfortable with the way I look, get over it or leave . . . are we tracking now?" I suppose I could have done the same in my female voice but old habits die hard. After that I continued with my female voice and things simmered down. Were they pushing my buttons, testing the water of just seeing how far they could go? Yup that is the nature of the military, look for a week link and make your move. However, there won't be any more slack cut at meetings on my watch . . . male or female.

Cheers

Isha

[flatlander_48]

I:

The point you raise about not stopping the discordance soon enough is important, I think. When this has happened to me during meetings that I have led in the past, from the perspective of a black male, I learned that righting the ship sooner rather than later was good. My guess is that I was hoping that the situation would fix itself without my intervention. Wishful thinking on my part...

DeeAnn

[Persephone]

Isha,

You might be interested in the following article (Click here for complete article):

The one thing women can do to thwart gender bias at work

"In a new study by VitalSmarts, a workplace training and consultancy firm, researchers found that a woman who asserted her opinion at work forcefully was not only perceived as less competent but also as less valuable than an equally assertive male counterpart. Their findings shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone who’s been paying attention to news on gender politics lately — there’s a long and well-documented string of research that supports the notion that women get penalized when they fail to embody certain gender stereotypes. But VitalSmarts’ study goes a step further, showing not only how much gender bias can cost women but also experimenting with simple strategies women can use to thwart it."

Overall, a very interesting study.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[ReineD]

You might be interested in the following article (Click here for complete article):

How interesting! They showed the video where both a man and a woman actor were being forceful with the same script. Their approval ratings both dropped (the woman's by 15% and the man's by 6%). But the most interesting for me is, the woman was given a higher competency rate to begin with! She was rated as deserving a salary of $106k (which dropped 14% to $91K when she was forceful), while the man was rated as deserving a salary of only $97k (which dropped 6% to just under $91k when he was being forceful).

The conclusion was that if both men AND women preface their strong statements with an explanation of why their opinions are strong, both their approval rates will increase ... a valuable reminder that it's important to be good communicators.

The article also mentions a project at Harvard that measures people's inherent biases. Coincidentally, I posted the link to Harvard's IAT (Implicit Association Test) just last night if anyone wants to have a go:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post3788922

[Marcelle]

Isha,

You might be interested in the following article (Click here for complete article):

Hi Persephone,

Interesting article. Funny thing is I tend to use this same approach when dealing with "difficult" people. Indeed it is a common thing employed in the military. Provide a nice and calming sedge way, follow up with the hammer then leave them on a good note. Believe me it pays dividends . . . management 101 sort to speak. However, sometimes (especially in the military) you just need the hammer as that is what some only comprehend. It would be interesting to conduct the same study with military people and the actors in military uniforms. I wonder if you would get the same results.

Cheers

Isha