R eal
L ife
E experience
Now lets discuss
R eal
L ife
E experience
Now lets discuss
Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said
The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another
Wherever any individual shows the world a different gender expression. It gets real very fast. Life happens to all of us. It's the experience that differs.
RLE pertains to transition when an individual lives 24/7 add their target gender. There is no fall back when times get challenging. You live, eat, socialize, and work as your target gender.
The goal of RLE is to integrate into society as a member of your target gender. Some may or may not have surgeries. But if you were to meet that person and spend any extensive time, they would consistently interact with you as target gender.
( I am using terms to include both MTF and ftm).
Anything less than living 24/7 is not RLE. Yes there are aspects of it you will experience. But there can no way to know because you are not living it. There are many that are transitioning, have found a comfortable place as gender fluid. But until you go full-time are you experiencing RLE.
I tend to define a person going full-time when they legally change their name, gender to the target, inform, their family, friends and employers or in my case employees and clients.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
I'm always amazed when I see posts that give the impression RLE is a hardship, or an unrealistic expectation. That should be a warning sign for anyone contemplating transition, because the explicit purpose of transitioning is being accepted into society as belonging to the gender you identify as. RLE isn't a stumbling block on the way to the goal, it is the goal. Is it an intimidating step? Sure. It's also 100% inevitable for anyone who is going to proceed and if it doesn't feel right, then you've learned something important.
~ Kimberly
“To escape criticism do nothing, say nothing, be nothing." - Elbert Hubbard
right..
RLE is the whole point...
and going through it is hugely informative and helpful unless you are gaming the system for a surgery..
that is a gorgeous picture Kimberly, and you look pretty good too
I agree that RLE is the goal. My first day of work, I didn't pause in my car, I jumped out and hustled in as my life awaited.
Each of us approach transition differently. Some go from zero public exposure to 100% in one day. Others gradually increase their exposure. I did it gradual over a few years and at the point of deciding on transition, I didn't present at work, with in-laws, grandkids, and then select places. Now work, in-laws, and grandkids were because they didn't know and that was okay because it is part of the transition that I was then deciding on. But the select places tells me the difference in my "partial RLE" experience and "100% RLE".
I went to my electrologists in male mode for a long time as I didn't want to be seen with the whiskers as Sue. I avoided car repair and tire shops as it felt too testosterone driven. While I was long out to my general practitioner, I presented male to my dentist and optometrist to avoid the discomfort (although I worked with an optician in the same office to get appropriate frames for Sue). So if it felt tough, I had the room to avoid it. Once I decided I was on the path to transition, then there couldn't be any more avoidance. I had to learn to face everyone and deal with the social situations, and I did. While a lot of it was a problem only in my mind, having options does make a difference in experience.
I think of it this way. Let's say you want to learn to swim. If you do laps across the shallow end, if you are tired and don't feel like it anymore, you just stand up. If you do laps across the deep end, you are going to drown if you don't keep going.
So I learned a ton before going to the deep end. And because of that experience in the shallow end, I was able to handle the deep end. Because of that, I really recommend gradual transition whenever possible as coping skills can build.
That's the problem, some people think RLE is something you tick off to pass the gatekeepers.
RLE is the start of the rest of your life, it's a tool for your own certainly that what you are doing is correct, there is still time to realise you made a mistake and surgery isn't for you, or it cements your identity and if you want surgery, you will know it's an informed decision.
It's not something you manipulate to get the go ahead for surgery, but then are these the same people that think HRT gets you Boobies!
I've heard it a lot from people going to the NHS gender clinics "wear this" "say that" etc, how to trick the system. The system and RLE are there to protect us, not slow down or impede.
RLE is a very specific term indicating you are in a process, although experience living as a woman can be very valid, if it's not full-time it's not RLE.
I went part time before transition. Traveling to and from work as Rianna, working 4 days out of 7 as Robert then changing back to travel home. That was not my Real Life Experience. Although I learned some things in that period, I was not full-time and had the refuge of switching in circumstances where it might have been unpopular to be seen as me.
The day that I began my transition, I began my RLE and I changed my name all at the same time; there was no going back
However, I also withdrew from some things that I had previously spent a lot of time with (mainly around my political activities). When I started going to the Gender Clinic, I was encouraged to re-engage in those sorts of activities - not as some kind of "extra chore" or "final test", nor was it as some kind of "gate-keeping" exercise but to broaden the range of my interactions with the real world - and I'm glad that I did.
At the moment, my health is going in the wrong direction to allow me to aspire to Gender Confirmation Surgery, but I interact with everybody as the real me and there is no room for doubt that I am Rianna
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
RLE is an excellent tool to eliminate doubt
Here's my view from the borderline. There are real life experiences and Real Life Experience. Living part time and publicly so, will give one a taste of what is in store, but I see full time, everywhere and with everyone as the goal and an overt pronouncement of identity. The part timer's life, my life, often feels like covert action.
Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
Eleanor Roosevelt
right...RLE is a specific thing and it helps communications to keep it that way...
it does not devalue others experience as being not real... what is missed is that by trying to broaden what RLE means, its devalues the actual experience of RLE..
"part time" RLE means cross dressing... and frankly that's what i did before i decided to transition and do RLE... over time i realized it was doing nothing for me until i made it "real"...
Yes and real life experiences are not to be dismissed.Originally Posted by kimdl93
But RLE has only one meaning (in the TS world anyway) = full-time experience in your preferred gender, over a period of time (usually 2 years).
Typically this starts when you can provide proof of name change and sometimes they want to see something from your place of work.
Thanks Nigella, fantastic thread.
This is what happens when people talk about their REAL experience on the way to transition. It's very personal and it will take as long as you need it to but at some point you have to pull the pin, or it isn't a transition at all is it.
Like Sue said, those early days are fraught with angst about where we may need to 'man up'. Eventually, you're full time and maybe you just stop going to certain places. It's all part of the process. Almost full time, means the same thing as NOT full time and frankly if you're not taking full advantage of your middle path status, than you're crazy. I would have LOVED to just be a dude at work and continue to be Misty on the weekends or whatever. For me that wasn't an option. I didn't want to have secrets and I know full well that it would also mean work events, hiding things in my car and/or office, being careful about where I was seen, etc etc. My transition was not about being a woman, it was about coming OUT and being free to express myself 100% of the time.
My RLE started the day I got home from Mexico after FFS and BA. Six weeks later I was in the parking lot at work trembling and trying to work up the courage to walk in. Six weeks later my name was changed, and it's been quite an experience.
My endo asked for one hour of therapy for my HRT scrip. While I was talking to the therapist, I mentioned for her to make a note that this was also the start to my RLE. She said I had been full time already for over a year, my RLE was done, and to ask her when I needed a letter to that effect.
Dr. Brassard wanted letters from a shrink, and a therapist, but nothing confirming RLE.
Personally, I think one year FULL time (no changing to visit your Mom) is really ness. I don't know anybody that transition has back fired on, but I've read accounts. Also, it's FUN!
I also consider RLE to be the same as full time. Either you are or your not. There is much to learn and get used to in order to transition fully. Having a safety net avoids the pressures and experiences that only come with transition. If the goal is transition to the point of Srs I think it is invaluable.
I also consider full time ( RLE) to include legal name change, and every one knowing at home, work, and everywhere. I took 2 months off work and had ffs, name change and returned to work and life as Angela. Never looked back. I did live part time for quite some time before I transitioned.
All I ever wanted was to be a girl. Is that really asking too much?
Before I transitioned RLE was held up to me as a trial and test of being able to live and function in your new gender. Since the day I went 24/7 as Peggie It has been the best year and half of my life my work, my ID changes, my family, my true friends that stuck with me and to all the new friends I've made. I have no regrets even with some trying times in there.
Peggie lee
I think a lot of people still see the RLE as some kind of test. Like you could back out and revert to your assigned gender at any time during the "test" if the going gets too tough. If you've gotten to the point of living 24/7 in your target gender and still need an "escape plan" then maybe you shouldn't be transitioning.
Personally I was "part time" for about a year before I started 24/7. That was the day I posted my coming out letter on the message board at work in preparation for my legal name change. I had been on HRT for a year and a half and I was sick (literally and figuratively) of switching back to male for work everyday. Sure I was nervous when I hit send on my message but who wouldn't be. That was the point of no return and I knew it. It's a bell that can't be unrung. Now I'm just me. Fifteen months in so far. Don't know if I'll ever have any surgery. It's not a priority. If I decide to, I'm pretty sure I have enough "experience" that my therapist will gladly write the necessary letters.
If clothes make the man, I must not be one.
If men are from Mars and women are from Venus, I am definitely from Earth. Somewhere in the middle.
You may call me Dana BOriginally posted by Inna
If you find your self in pain, yet not able to stop the pursuit, rest assured, you are on the right path
I see RLE as an opportunity to live as your authentic self. I think RLE serves several purposes. I'm writing from the point of view of a MTF, but this applies to FTM too, with gender terms or pronouns reversed.
1. This is your opportunity to live as your authentic self. It's not a test. I would think if you're not enthused about doing RLE, than maybe you should re-think transition. I was really excited to be able to have any opportunity to present as a woman, and there came a point where it became unbearable to dress and interact as male. I am thankful for this opportunity. The only thing that would have been a test or drugery was having to revert back to male mode for any reason. Today is the one year anniversary of the very last time I ever dressed as male. I have never looked back since then. I say, seriously, good riddance to boy mode. I am so glad to have finally dumped it.
2. This is an opportunity to see whether or not transition is for you. You can expect to deal with mis-gendering, stares, and microagressions from either strangers or people you're in close proximity to, such as friends, co-workers, and family. You have to be prepared to come out to everybody in your life. You need to be prepared for, and to deal with the consequences of a transphobic and misogynistic world to transition. If you can't deal with it, this may be a good indicator you shouldn't transition. If you think RLE is some kind of test or drugery, than maybe transition isn't for you. Yes, it sucks being clocked and facing the consequences of getting clocked, but part of the deal is we get to be ourselves and deal with getting clocked.
3. This is your chance to integrate with the world as a woman. We get to experience everything from going to the supermarket, drugstore, mall, auto mechanic, dentist, doctors, AA, church, non AA/non trans social events, hang out with friends, talk on the phone, eat dinner, travel, watch TV, go on the computer, work, pray, meditate, and run errands, as your target gender. It is your chance to learn how to deal with unwanted attention from men, to learn how to deal with men in a work or social environment, to learn how to socialize among women, to unlearn male behaviors and mannerisms, to let female behaviors and mannerisms come out, to learn the ins and outs of female social behavior.
According to some of what I've seen written, you are neither experiencing RLE nor living full time until you legally change your name.
I disagree with some of you that you need to change your name & gender to be doing RLE or full-time. I just asked a friend, who is MTF here in LA, and she said that to get GCS, you need to be presenting as a woman and on HRT for a year, and have two letters of recommendation from two different therapists. One year of RLE is often considered the requirement for getting GCS, and I believe it might have been two years in the past. But legal name & gender change is, at least in California, not required to get GCS. I tend to use GCS requirements as my definition for RLE and for full-time.
So I consider you full-time and doing RLE if
1. You are on HRT.
2. You live as a woman 24/7, and never go back. (For FTM, living as a man 24/7)
I also add a few things.
3. You are out to everybody whom you interact with in real life.
4. If you're not out to anyone, and you have plans of seeing that person, then you should tell them before seeing them. And yes do interact with them as your target gender.
5. If you haven't come out to somebody who lives in your area, but you don't see them, you might bump into them in public somewhere. Introduce yourself as your target name & gender.
It is not required that you
1. Legally change your name & gender
2. Out yourself to people who live in a different city whom you won't be seeing
3. Out yourself to people who live in the same area whom you haven't seen for years or have no plan on seeing
So basically, you should be able to present, live, and function, as a woman i all situations. There is no going back when the times get tough, or because you don't feel comfortable coming out to someone.
I do think if you're going through the phase where you go back and forth between male and female modes, although not technically full-time or RLE, you are still gaining real life experience. Every moment you get presenting is still giving you experience. Even if it is not offically RLE, you're still gaining experience, and it still counts for something. Not towards your GCS requirement. But you're still gaining something out of every time you present as female (or male if you're FTM).
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
I had found doing it part time and stealth was no longer workable . no therapist would help me I thought .. I just made up my mind to go ahead and do it one day and then went ahead with it, on my own, abruptly with nobody else's permission .. I was desperate . and it did not work for long, I found I did need a therapist after all, I was not strong enough to cope with it on my own, and luckily I found one almost right away, when I got into that crisis so soon after going full time .. don't do it that way like I did ...
.It also screwed up my female voice, so it never seemed to stay with me, stable after that, for years and years it would wander all over the pitch scale and worse ...back to male talking style. Eventually, I was not going back, not for anybody, not even for an hour ..
..Yes, some places are to avoid...
I was not working, (I was retired) but I had several years of testing dressing in public...people in public are the best critics to get you to do better at passing...I dressed almost all the day and night, at home, behind closed doors in addition.. and so the start of RLE was just the final test, after years of getting good at passing and during which I had got my act almost perfect....there is something to be said for the gradual approach, even if you don't count it as the RLE and I guess you shouldn't ..perhaps it even helped me to pass without FFS .. there are a lot of tricks that work like the stage magic of an illusionist ...
It was the secrets, getting caught, and having my reputation being ruined and people I had to deal with, laughing behind my back, that made me miserable, and the situation starting to become unbearable so it drove me to take the final step, going full time, yet I was headed that way anyway, it just would have taken a bit longer.. It was a very, very messy time towards the end..
It is the spirit in which you do it, if you play with it a bit ...... variety is the spice of life, What is gender difference in dress anyway as a modern grrl I can mix and match and dress any way I like from time to time, just for fun.. but I try to avoid getting spotted doing anything too extreme in public like a complete role reversal reversion . but it is not rejecting my new gender .. it is a matter of either exercising my freedom and flexibility of attire or kinging .. other real grrls do it too, even those never trans
Not really. I knew I wanted it, and that I needed it, yet some bad things happened when I had to back up and regroup ...I had failures, but I always came back, like when I was giving up smoking, after going back a couple of times and the left over ciggies having gone stale, I saw no further point, or sort of ...in going back to smoking again .. just a waste of cigarettes and money to go back to doing it again...
... some people are just bad news and don't need much of an excuse to show their bad side ..
. . . but occasionally you just have to laugh quietly about it ...
..and it is surprising how nice people can be too ..sometimes, being nice to you as trans and other times, being nice to you since you are a woman, or even just if you evoke that response by dressing as a woman, even when they know you are trans..
... I had no idea I needed to grab hold of a man from the other side, for a slow dance -- I guess he was puzzled for a moment too, but then he decided jiving would be more appropriate for us ...
.. me too, but I used some tricks recounted elsewhere including in my old posts to get around it legally ...
in my case not medically possible, but SRS did alter my hormone balance, the latest SOC revision was changed to allow SRS without HRT just in time before my letters, etc., got delayed too long, just 6 months ...of course it is to cover only exceptional cases, (as Dr. Brassard told me, not something he expected to approve for everyone), and my case was an allowable exception
.. Yup, with bells on ...
.. might have prevented one instance of a woman seeing me in my new gender for the first time, bursting out in surprise, blaspheming and very loudly so, right out in front of every one ...later she was real nice to me ..
..It was one of the worst things in my transition -- detransitioning, even though it was very brief ..
... yes, but that if done as I did, in desperation and failure, really, really sucks ...
it was self imposed and when I celebrated the two year point, (of RLE), my therapist whom I had eventually found, said that was old and unnecessary these days .. but the champagne tasted just as good anyway ...and I got some nice gifts, even a bouquet of flowers. . .
..-
In my case, I was living full time. and people I had been dealing with at the bank, doctor etc. knew I had just changed gender, so they accepted paper work like cheques, in my old name, while addressing me with my new, female name in person, yet I had not yet even changed my name officially, I just started, at least in the last two months before my legal name change, using the name I was changing my name to.. before that, I asked to be addressed in a female-sounding variation on my male name .. I also changed my credit cards to change the male first name to a female sounding version, .. a little smooth talking over the telephone to the credit card company worked, as the bank suggested, when the bank would not change them without an official legal name change certificate... one way or another, in my particular case, it just worked out fairly well.....but I won't lie to you, there were some awkward moments due to my identification documents not matching and I really hated to face them..Of course I was eager to get all my documentation changed as soon as possible, but it did drag on in some parts of it, and still is not all done, after 6 years as it has been particularly problematic for some some organizations to get it right and/or for me to get around to work on it with them...I think it was all legal .. just don't lie to a police officer about what your real, still your own legal name is.. they then will wonder if you are a criminal--not good
Last edited by Beth-Lock; 08-16-2015 at 05:59 AM.
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Why isn't it important to legally change your name and gender? In other words you say are full time, but not really. Your paychecks will need to be written to your birth gender name and deposited in your bank account with your legal birth name. Your driver's license, passport, health records and the list goes on that tells the world you interact with you are your birth gender.
Last edited by stefan37; 08-16-2015 at 04:51 AM.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
@stefan37
It is important to legally change documents. Most of us have that goal in mind. This is an integral part of transition. But I don't understand how someone hasn't started RLE until you've changed your documents. My understanding, and I may be completely wrong, is that to get GCS, you need one year of living 24/7 as a woman (RLE) and must be on HRT for one year. You are not required to change your name and gender to get GCS. In fact, some states require you to get GCS before you can change your gender. Stefan, please correct me if I'm wrong.
But if I'm understanding WPATH standards correctly, you need one year RLE before getting GCS, but you're not required to change your name or gender to get GCS, therefore to be in RLE, you do not need to change your name and gender. Maybe I'm being too logical. But logically speaking, you do not need to change your name & gender to be considered in RLE. Maybe to some people, emotionally speaking, it may be a necessity to change name & gender to be considered RLE. And most of us will eventually change name & gender, it's a matter of when and not if.
And my understanding is that RLE is a way to determine whether or not transition is for you. So maybe you should do some RLE before changing your name & gender. Just saying, rather than change your name & gender, do one year RLE, then decide that you want to go back.
Also, in California, many doctors and dentists allow you to use your preferred name and gender even though it legally hasn't been changed. Bank accounts, of course, you need the court order to change name & gender. I haven't changed my name & gender yet, but all my medical records are under Michelle. All my doctors and dentists call me Michelle, and have gender as female. In California, this is perfectly legal. I don't know about other states.
Last edited by Michelle789; 08-16-2015 at 02:45 AM.
I've finally mastered the art of making salads. My favorite is a delicious Mediterranean salad.
@ Michelle
Can you tell me why we do RLE? What does it prove, to who and for what reason?
As far as I understand here in the UK, it's so you prove you're ready for GRS.
If you're not having GRS, then maybe you don't need to be too worried about proving RLE.
Onto proving RLE to a medical professional, who hasn't sent a private investigator to watch your movements.
How else can they tell you have actually done this, without seeing name changes and maybe work documents in your new name?
I don't understand why you haven't changed your name yet anyways? Who wants to live full-time and still be known as their male name?
I was responding to your comment it wasn't important to change your legal name and gender. All states allow you to change your name and I believe all states allow you to change your gender without SRS. Receiving a new or amended birth certificate is another matter entirely. Living full time is RLE and there are many that live there lives 24/7 as female with no intention of getting any surgeries. But I will guarantee that they have changed at least their legal name and gender on their legal documents.
Any interaction with the legal system, health care system, financial or educational will require your legal name. Yeah you can go to the doctor and request they use your preferred name, but all prescriptions, tests, procedures will be to your legal name. Same with bank accounts, SSN, etc.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
Change all of them. HR will change who your checks are written to. It sounds like you are trying to avoid the inevitable. After getting my name change, I obliterated every last vestige of my old self, and got all new I.D. in about an hour.
First off. I am not talking about me. I changed my legal name and gender 2 years ago and went full-time. I was responding to Michelle's assertion it was not important to change your name and still believeyou are full-time.
I know nobody that lives 24/7 as female that has not changed their legal name or gender. I am sure there are some and I can't even imagine the confusion that creates.
Especially where there are many places we need to produce a driver's license for I'd.
"When failure is off the table the only thing left is to negotiate levels of success" M Hobbes
"Never Let your Fear Decide Your Fate" Awolnation
"A new dawn destroys the tranquility of the darkness" Steph W
Changing gender is a variable thing depending on the state. Utah has been getting them through based on a vague statute, so we can only hope that continues. I actually went "through the back door" by changing my passport using federal guidelines and the DMV here accepts a passport as proof. But we also need to remember that sometimes these things take money. A person should be able to live their live authentically and considered in RLE without a name or gender change as making that part of the standard assumes a financial status.
And I know that one of the contexts here is that RLE is sometimes a requirement for GRS (that is being argued as unnecessary by some now). But whether someone can afford a surgery or not shouldn't affect the total RLE time. If I am unemployed and can't change my name due to lack of financial resources, but transition, and get employed a year later, I should be able to "qualify" as having one year of RLE for surgery right away and not have to change my name and then wait another year. I would also contend that anyone who has that unfortunate situation would have experienced more than those that have changed their name as having the wrong ID will bring about increased scrutiny and discrimination.
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