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Thread: Rle

  1. #26
    Member Kimberly Kael's Avatar
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    I'm reluctant to assert that HRT and legal name change are an absolute requirement for living full time, because both are subject to different jurisdictional requirements and ease of access varies by economic status. HRT can also be inappropriate depending on medical conditions. I'm also baffled by the ease with which people toss around the phrase "legal gender" because as far as I can determine there is no such thing. There are well-established processes by which a judge can order a name change, but gender tends to be more of a document-by-document basis with differing requirements in each case.

    Of course the term RLE often means something fairly specific in terms of access to procedures like GCS. Given that a patient will have to take some kind of hormone replacement following GCS it makes a ton of sense to require significant experience prior. That said, I lived full time for two years before I started HRT because I wanted to be absolutely certain I knew what I was doing and wasn't making medical decisions because they were on some arbitrary checklist. I wanted to make them for me, in consultation with my wife, on my own time.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle789 View Post
    So I consider you full-time and doing RLE if

    1. You are on HRT.
    Have to disagree with the foregoing - under the NHS guidelines when I started my RLE I was not prescribed hormones until three months after seeing my Gender Clinic doc which was 5 weeks into my RLE, I didn't start on hormones until I was 4 1/2 months in.

    (Transitioned 1st Jan 2010)

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan37
    I know nobody that lives 24/7 as female that has not changed their legal name or gender. I am sure there are some and I can't even imagine the confusion that creates.
    Especially where there are many places we need to produce a driver's license for I'd.
    I know plenty of people who go fulltime before changing their name / gender marker. At least here in Texas changing your gender marker can be near impossible, depending on where you live. (And even if you live In an area where it's possible, the costs stop some of us.) And yes, it's a nightmare for many of us.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deborah_UK View Post
    Have to disagree with the foregoing - under the NHS guidelines when I started my RLE I was not prescribed hormones until three months after seeing my Gender Clinic doc which was 5 weeks into my RLE, I didn't start on hormones until I was 4 1/2 months in.

    (Transitioned 1st Jan 2010)
    You can live full-time and do RLE without HRT, but I would say being legally female surely has to be a must for full-time?
    If you haven't changed your name then you are holding back, if you are holding back are you truly full-time?

    Is this something that is dependent on where you live? It appears to be an issue in Texas, but elsewhere?

    On the flip side of this I knew someone that changed their name but didn't update anywhere, so she proved RLE/full-time to the NHS with a deedpole (unemployed), but actually was lying.
    This is illegal here, but it's what she was doing to get on the surgery list.
    I broke contact with that person as I strongly disagree with their actions.
    Last edited by becky77; 08-16-2015 at 11:34 AM.

  5. #30
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    There does seem to be a variation on what is required for RLE.

    RLE was, when I was under the gender clinic, a requirement for surgery. Evidence of name change, work or social activity in new name/gender and producing bills or other documentation were the sort of evidence I needed to show prior to consideration of 1st opinion. I was fortunate as I had begun living 24/7 some 3 years prior to being seen by the gender clinic.

    Each person will decide their own RLE, however, there will be some point, IMHO, a time when an "official" will tell you what you need to do to evidence RLE. I believe you can have RLE without the name change, you can interact with others in your aquired gender, however, if you are living in a dual gender world, there will be a point if you wish to be fully integrated as your correct gender when a name change is a must.
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  6. #31
    Silver Member Angela Campbell's Avatar
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    RLE is a guideline. It isn't anything that you have to prove, usually. At least in my area. It is all based on your therapist. It is something for which there is a good reason for. Kinda like before surgery you aren't allowed to eat or drink after midnight. Sure you can lie and get the surgery if you had broken that rule, but there may be a consequence if you do. You think you know better than the professional, but do you really?

    Yes there are ways to get srs without a year or sometimes more of rle, but that is the standard used by the professionals who know better than I. If srs isn't the goal then there is no rle. Just life.

    I also don't believe a transition is complete without the name change. Are you really living as a woman if your name is a male name?
    Last edited by Angela Campbell; 08-16-2015 at 02:04 PM.
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  7. #32
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Let's keep it real people, if you're not going to change your name, then what are you doing?

    I'm reluctant to speak for my sisters but having the 'matching' ID was one of the more thrilling aspects of the whole thing. Especially during that first year when you're getting clocked left and right, when somebody asks for your ID for some transaction, I couldn't pull it out fast enough. Hell, I wanted to have it on a lanyard around my neck.

    No matter what, my legal name was Melissa and I had a snazzy little 'F' on my ID. I've been F'd ever since. :-)
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  8. #33
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    I won't consider myself fulltime until my name/sex designation change is done but that's just me.
    Who cares about theorycrafting this crap, just do whatever and scrounge whatever happiness you can out of this big dumb Earth :P

  9. #34
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    I did a couple years (not by choice) of being completely out but stuck legally with my male name on everything and I can say it really, really sucked! It was like tranny purgatory. The reason it was like that was my boss would not let me change my name or dress female at work. It was all a big mess.

    When I did legally change my name and stopped sacrificing myself for the job my life got way better very fast. I think that would have marked the beginning of rle but from what I had already gone through it was no big deal at all.

    I never talked specifically with a therapist or doctor about RLE, I don't think it was ever mentioned. When I got my letters for surgery they just stated that I had fully transitioned in all aspects of my life and met the requirements and was a good candidate.

    Just my opinion to say you are living full time you should have your name changed. Being able to change gender marker is more difficult in a lot of places,, and I don't think that is as important as the name. Of course in some counties it is hard to even change the name so live as close as you can to the gender you identify as.

  10. #35
    Member Kimberly Kael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    You can live full-time and do RLE without HRT, but I would say being legally female surely has to be a must for full-time?
    Again, what do you mean by "legally female?" There is no such thing. Do you mean having at least one piece of ID that lists your gender as female? Having all your ID agree? Do you include passport and birth certificate, in which case do you really mean to say that you apply different criteria for living full time vary depending on where someone was born?
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  11. #36
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Reading this thread, it seems that the definition of RLE is:

    1. Doing all of the things that the person writing the post has done.

    If the writer hasn't completed a particular step then of course that step is optional!


    Here is an article that discusses the murky origins of the RLE in the the Erickson Educational Foundation. Apparently, it were created by Reed Erickson's personal physician!

    https://dspace.library.uvic.ca/bitst...=1&isAllowed=y

    The reasons given for the real-life test by the Guidelines are “to allow you to overcome awkwardness, establish new behavior patterns, and approach unfamiliar situations with an unforced inner confidence.” Rather than fixing the time period of the trial, it says, “[w]hen you have achieved this, the moment will have arrived for surgery to confirm the changes which you have so well prepared.”
    Eryn
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  12. #37
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    I think a good way to look at the "legally" term is in the sense of the actual legal system.

    I'm F'd for Jury Duty, for example, and I'm really F'd if I ever get arrested for anything. All official documents are F'd. So I would consider that legally F'd.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    Reading this thread, it seems that the definition of RLE is:

    1. Doing all of the things that the person writing the post has done.

    If the writer hasn't completed a particular step then of course that step is optional!
    Actually I think we're all just arguing the finer points of a concept that we already agree on.

    Do you think spending a year working as a man while wearing a nightie in the evenings and going to events and shopping on the weekends should qualify someone for SRS?
    Last edited by Badtranny; 08-16-2015 at 03:37 PM.
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  13. #38
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    Can someone please show me where it says you need to legally change your name to be considered in RLE, or to qualify for SRS? I'll believe you all if you can show me proof in the official WPATH guidelines, or if you can name all the SRS surgeons who require a legal name & gender change before they will perform surgery. If it's not in the WPATH guidelines, or at least one of the major US or worldwide SRS surgeons says that you don't need to legally change your name or gender to get SRS, then you are not required to legally change name & gender for RLE. Simple.

    As far as it being a nightmare for those going through RLE without matching documentation, I agree 100%. Although, it honestly depends on what state you live in, what city, and what each and how each and every individual or organization in your life reacts.

    My experience is that I am out to 4 different doctors and my dentist, work, and my mobile phone provider. Even though I haven't legally changed my name & gender yet, each of these places has me as Michelle and female on their records. They always call me Michelle.

    One doctor is the L.A. LGBT Center. There may be a bias because they are the LGBT center, and lots of transwomen and transmen in my area go there for hormones.

    The second is my homeopathic doctor. Once again, a bias because homeopathic doctors tend to be more trans friendly.

    The third is my chiropractor. Once again, a bias because chiropractors and other alternative medicine specialists tend to be more trans friendly.

    The fourth is an urgent care center I went to when I had bronchitis. I honestly don't see a personal bias coming from them, since they are a large corporation who does not cater specifically to LGBT people and are 100% western medicine. Maybe California law requires this. I don't know what the laws are in other states.

    My workplace knows me as Michelle. Granted, my paychecks are still sent to my male name. But my records have me listed as Michelle. My co-workers always call me Michelle. My emails go to an address with Michelle in it.

    My mechanic and JiffyLube both know me as Michelle. I am listed as Michelle on their documents. I still pay with a credit card with my male name on it.

    Finally, my mobile phone provider, SprintPCS, let me change my name on the account. They have no requirement stating that your name must match your ID.

    Many reward cards such as Ralphs, Panera Bread, CVS, Walgreens, Sephora, and others, have my name as Michelle. No requirement that on these rewards cards, which are not the same as credit cards, that your name must be legal.

    I am out as Michelle on Facebook, personal email, AA phone lists, my church membership. My Amazon Prime account is listed as Michelle, and they totally accept a credit card with my male name on it. I have plenty of other online accounts that are like that.

    I honestly think it depends on the state you live in and any individual organization to decide whether or not you can use a different name other than your legal name.

    Now there are some places where I still am listed as my male name.

    1. My bank accounts.

    2. My lease.

    3. My utility bills.

    4. Jury duty.

    5. My auto insurance.

    6. Driver's license.

    Probably a few others.


    AAA has me listed under my male name, but gender marker is female.

    Perhaps I'm lucky because my male name is an uncommon name and not easily gendered in our culture. In our culture it can be a male or female name. Maybe nobody bats an eye when they see a credit card or bank account with my male name and I'm presenting as female.

    So yes, there are many places you can use your preferred name and it doesn't need to match your legal name. There are other places you must use your legal name. Those places that require a legal name haven't given me any trouble for it.

    Now I believe that it can be a nightmare for many people who haven't legally changed their name & gender. I would imagine that in places like Texas or Idaho, or in organizations that are highly transphobic, they may give you hell when they see a mismatching name & gender marker from how you present.

    Can I say that Texas and California are the two extremes. California is the trans friendly extreme that will let you get away without changing your name or gender, and when you do decide to change it it's relatively straightforward? Texas it the trans unfriendly extreme that will give you hell for not changing your name or gender, but gives you hell when you do decide to change your name and gender marker? And everywhere else is somewhere in between on the spectrum.

    Oh, and one more thing. How about someone like me who is literally torn about whether or not I want to keep my last name. This is one of several issues preventing me from changing my name right now. I know I am definitely sticking with Michelle as my first name.


    Now, do I plan on changing my name & gender? Yes, absolutely.

    Do I consider myself to be in RLE? Yes.

    Do I consider myself living 24/7? I haven't dressed as male since August 15, 2014. I've been on HRT since August 1, 2014. Today, I officially qualify for SRS. Although I'm not thinking SRS at this time, I do qualify.

    Do I consider myself living full-time as a woman? Yes. I have no plans of ever reverting back to male mode. I have no plans of interacting with the world as a man.

    Maybe instead of arguing back and forth between who is right and who is wrong, maybe RLE is a very personal thing. Maybe RLE is only a guideline. Maybe your RLE and definition of full-time depends on what your own personal goals and circumstances are.

    And don't forget the people who choose not to go on HRT or do surgeries. They're still living full-time just as much as anyone who is on HRT or is planning a surgery.
    Last edited by Michelle789; 08-16-2015 at 05:04 PM.
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  14. #39
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    Do you think spending a year working as a man while wearing a nightie in the evenings and going to events and shopping on the weekends should qualify someone for SRS?
    Do you think that someone presenting as as their desired gender as much as possible but forced to present as their birth gender for work should be automatically denied SRS until they do everything you did?

    That would impact transpeople serving in the military as well as transpeople who need to safeguard their employment to meet their family obligations.

    Even WPATH says:

    The Standards of Care Are Flexible Clinical Guidelines

    The SOC are intended to be flexible in order to meet the diverse health care needs of trans-sexual, transgender, and gender-nonconforming people.
    They don't seem to believe in a rigid checklist either.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberly Kael View Post
    Again, what do you mean by "legally female?" There is no such thing. Do you mean having at least one piece of ID that lists your gender as female? Having all your ID agree? Do you include passport and birth certificate, in which case do you really mean to say that you apply different criteria for living full time vary depending on where someone was born?
    Actually I just meant name change and ID for RLE. I only know the criteria for surgery in the UK.

    Is there no such thing as legally female? Where would you be sent to prison?
    In the UK until you have proven certain criteria (minimum 2 years RLE), you can't apply for a Gender certificate, until then regardless of how you live, how long etc you are considered male by the government and are in danger of going to a male prison.

    I don't really understand why we are arguing name change? Why on earth would you live full-time and keep male name and pronouns?
    If you are pulled over by the police and they ask for your license, are you male or female?

    I stand back and say I'm clueless to what RLE means in the US, but here the Gender clinic expects a name change to start your RLE.
    Last edited by becky77; 08-16-2015 at 05:08 PM.

  16. #41
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    @Becky, not here in California. Gender clinics here do not expect a name change to start RLE. Certainly not in Southern California. Not sure about Northern California.
    Last edited by Michelle789; 08-16-2015 at 05:19 PM.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadTranny
    Let's keep it real people, if you're not going to change your name, then what are you doing?
    There are still all sorts of legal situations and places in the U.S. where it's hard to get name / gender marker changes. I know women here in Texas who've had both the name and gender marker change denied by a judge. The denial of name change is incredible - but the law here gives judges total autonomy on who and why they grant these.

    My insurance required 1 year of RLE before they'd approve my GRS. FWIW, I'm not sure what purpose the RLE serves. There is none for FFS, and really none for BA, and both have far more day to day impact. The FtMs can get mastectomies with no RLE or even HRT.

    A lot of people will wait some significant time before they are able to obtain this surgery anyway, simply because of wait times. If GRS were, in general quick, affordable and easy to get, I could see more arguments for it.

    I remain unconvinced that any therapist I've ever met knows whether or not someone should or should not do any particular thing with regards to their gender.

  18. #43
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    You all are getting into a heated discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with RLE. RLE is a period of 1-2 years where a person lives life 24/7 as their preferred gender. Nothing more, nothing less. This teaches you exactly what it is like to live life as a man or woman. It has nothing to do with HRT, name change, or any other BS you want to put in there.

    Back at the time I was required to do RLE it was 2 years. If you could not get through it, you weren't ready for other things like HRT, BA, or SRS.
    Last edited by Jorja; 08-16-2015 at 05:12 PM.

  19. #44
    Senior Member stefan37's Avatar
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    Bottom line Michelle, using your male name and gender. You are legally male. Anywhere you need to provide your driver's license will out you as male. There is absolutely no law that I know will prevent somebody from presenting female and using their male name and legal gender of male. Transition is challenging enough to need to show male ID.

    Good luck getting a SRS surgeon to perform vaginaplasty without 2 letters. The premise behind RLE as it relates to transition is the ensure you can integrate your life as female into society. Keeping the ability to slip back into male for whatever portion of your life is not integrating as a female.

    I don't care who gets or doesn't get SRS surgery. You want to go about your life as female with a male name, legal male ID, and a vagina. Have at it. I can't even image the disconnect going on.

    In order to get a US passport with female gender marker. You need a doctor to sign off on the letter. There are 2 tiers. One you are active in transition which needs to be renewed every 2 years. The second tier requires that you have undergone irreversible medical treatment and is valid for the passport life of 10 years.
    In either case it must be signed by a medical doctor or doctor of psychiatry.

    Transition is hard, it's expensive. ( I wish it wasn't but in the states it is). I would think that if one is transitioning they have some plan going forward how to pay for hormones, electrolysis, name change. At a minimum facial hair removal and name change. I believe most of the strife TS encounter is the result of "you go girl professionals, lack of planning and as a corollary lack of funds. Unrealistic expectations of looks and acceptance into society.

    I have my opinion of RLE. It is obvious there are some that believe living with Male identity or part time have a different definition. Just as they do for being TS or transition.
    My opinion tho of full time is rigid. You can not be full time if you have the ability to revert back to male or have legal male identity.

    You can agree to disagree with me. I will not be swayed. I would go as far to say that the second year full time even with the benefit of FFS is exponentially more difficult than early transition before full time and even the first year of full time.
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  20. #45
    Member Kimberly Kael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becky77 View Post
    Is there no such thing as legally female? Where would you be sent to prison?
    There really isn't a single legal definition in the US as far as I can tell. Instead, you are treated as male or female in a specific context based on how that aspect of government decides they're going to determine it. In some cases a driver's license is sufficient, in others you need a birth certificate, and in yet others a physical examination is the only accepted approach. Prisons sometimes have state-wide procedures established, but not always. Sports organizations are free to invent their own tests based on medical tests, history, or pretty much anything else they feel like. Any of the above can be challenged (by you or some vaguely interested party) and a judge may decide to apply some different criteria altogether. It's something of a mess.

    I don't really understand why we are arguing name change? Why on earth would you live full-time and keep male name and pronouns?
    Because in most places you need a judge's order to change your legal name (which is an accepted thing, quite unlike gender.) In some cases getting the desired results involves hiring lawyers, and not everyone can afford to jump through the required hoops. Living in your target gender shouldn't have an economic bar attached.

    If you are pulled over by the police and they ask for your license, are you male or female?
    That depends on the jurisdiction. Officers in progressive areas are often trained to respect your presentation regardless of what your license says. Officers in conservative areas may be encouraged to disrespect your choices if you're visibly transgender, regardless of what your license says. Getting your ID changed is no guarantee of anything, though I'd agree it's generally a worthwhile step if it's not a huge economic hardship.

    My legal name had changed and I had new identification months before I finally went full time, which was the source of some stress and entertainment when I needed to travel for work. Thankfully HR was already in the loop and was able to smooth things over.
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  21. #46
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    Becky, we are actually starting to get jails to identify trans individuals and house them appropriately. This is a tough one, but we have some traction locally. It isn't based on the ID marker, but self identity.

    Overall, I still don't care for any definition of RLE that requires money. I have friends that are full-time and living as a female that can't afford electrolysis. Does their's not count? I have a friend in bankruptcy who cannot get a name change until it is discharged? Should she not be considered in RLE? Ironically, her first name is androgynous, so the middle name is the issue. Experience is the key word, not legalities or commitment. Lack of financial privilege does not lessen a commitment.

  22. #47
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    Do you think that someone presenting as as their desired gender as much as possible but forced to present as their birth gender for work should be automatically denied SRS until they do everything you did? .
    Interesting. I wouldn't consider my transition to be the blueprint for anyone. I didn't go full time until I was surgically altered to make it impossible to be any other way. Regardless of what the CD's say, ain't no man walking around with 38D breasts. The big difference between me and many others is I was gonna do it my way no matter what. Another difference between me and many others is I am able to recognize my mistakes and correct my course with no ideology to trip over.

    So using your model of someone who is not out to the world, and lets be serious here, (if you're not out at work than you're not out to the world), should that person be allowed SRS? I personally think people should be allowed whatever surgery they want whenever they want it. I don't like the idea that TS people are considered to be incapable of making their own medical decisions. My body, my life, my decisions. Having said that, I find it unsettling that someone who's literal interpretation of being a woman is wearing women's clothes, is advocating for looser interpretations of the time honored traditions of transition.

    I guess there are as many ways to transition as there are transwomen, so to each their own. However the girls in my tribe are not about secrets or closets. We are out, our names are changed and there's not a girly girl among us. If you meet me at work, I'll be the same person you'll meet at a party. Perhaps a little more sober at work. There is not a single corner of my life that is not transitioned. There is only one me and I got here a little differently and perhaps I'm a little unorthodox, but I am now on the other side with my middle finger leading the way. I am transitioned.

    If I wanted to have SRS there would be no need for distinctions, even the most rigid gatekeeper would sign without hesitation. I have passed every one of their criteria. Hmmmm, maybe I'm just an old fashioned kinda gal after all.
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  23. #48
    Valley Girl Michelle789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberly Kael View Post
    Because in most places you need a judge's order to change your legal name (which is an accepted thing, quite unlike gender.) In some cases getting the desired results involves hiring lawyers, and not everyone can afford to jump through the required hoops. Living in your target gender shouldn't have an economic bar attached.
    This is very true. Some people literally all they can afford is to wear a cheap wig and cheap frumpy women's clothes. They cannot afford makeup, HRT, laser, electrolysis, nicer wig, nicer clothes, legal name & gender change, oh and they can forget about FFS or BA or SRS. If all someone can afford is a cheap wig and frumpy women's clothes and has no realistic chance of ever getting their name & gender changed, and has no realistic chance of ever passing, should we tell them that they are not living full-time? Does this mean they are not doing RLE? Are RLE and full-time only for the privileged few who are genetically blessed, earn over $50,000 per year, or maybe $100,000 per year is more like it, and medically healthy enough to be able to handle HRT and surgeries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberly Kael View Post
    Officers in progressive areas are often trained to respect your presentation regardless of what your license says. Officers in conservative areas may be encouraged to disrespect your choices if you're visibly transgender, regardless of what your license says. Getting your ID changed is no guarantee of anything, though I'd agree it's generally a worthwhile step if it's not a huge economic hardship.
    Very true. Once again, in conservative areas, you have to be 100% passable to get your identity respected, regardless of what your ID says. So does this mean that people who can't pass because of appearance, voice, behaviors, or mannerisms, are not full-time?

    @Beth, I totally agree with you. There is no right or wrong way to transition. Regardless of your hairstyle, clothing style, changing documentation, choice to wear or not to wear makeup, whether or not you get facial hair removal, whether or not you're on HRT, whether or not you get any surgeries, you are living full-time as yourself if you present as female 24/7. I really believe that 24/7 presentation constitutes living full-time and RLE. You're living authentically and not going back to your former self. For the sake of getting SRS, I would say that RLE is whatever is required for you to get your surgery.

    As for name & gender change for SRS - please show me one surgeon who requires a legal name and gender change. To get the two letters of recommendation from a therapist is one thing, but then it's up to the therapist to decide what is the one year of RLE. In fact, I'll ask my therapist tomorrow when I go to see her. I'll ask her what her requirements are for one year of RLE to sign off a letter for SRS.


    Also, what about the transwoman who has lived in female mode for 3 months, 7 months, or even 11 months, and suddenly feels pressured to present in male mode for one day by a family member or ex-spouse. Believe me, I have seen this happen. What if your ex-wife really demands you dress as a man for the day in divorce court? Otherwise this is the only time in one year you ever dressed as male. It may be the very last time you ever dress as male again. I have personally seen this happen. Should you be forced to reset your time under such extreme circumstances. This is not so far-fetched, I have personally seen this happen.
    Last edited by Michelle789; 08-16-2015 at 08:39 PM.
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    How many natal females are compelled to be men for a day? How many would do it if pressured ... not to pretend to be men, mind you, but to be the men they really were ... for a day? What is "male mode" to someone who has transitioned?

    The clothes, makeup, hair and wigs, etc. Who cares?

    Name and gender markers, surgeries, HRT - those are more substantive, IMO. While I think them irrelevant to the notion of living full-time, hence RLE, they can compromise transition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post

    Do you think spending a year working as a man while wearing a nightie in the evenings and going to events and shopping on the weekends should qualify someone for SRS?
    The question is whether any qualification is, or should be necessary at all. Sticking with current reality and not theory, consider this from the standpoint of fertility. One may have any of several irreversible sterilizing surgeries without RLE. Consider sex. One may be asexual. One may take medications voluntarily that render them sexually dysfunctional, also without RLE. Then consider that one's sex organs are private anyway and are irrelevant to living full time. One may have an orchiectomy without RLE. So what's RLE actually about?

    Now - to your example. What are the chances that the person wearing the nightie and shopping en-femme on weekends will actually pursure SRS if they are not, in fact, cross-sex identified? On the other side of this, how many might be so suppressed and fearful that they would be better off with SRS, FFS, etc. before going full-time?

    So, what does RLE *actually* accomplish? Where are the stats and studies? (hint - non-existent) Might it cause more problems than it prevents? (... same answer, so who knows?) In a population where fear and suppression is a major issue, I'd like some real answers.
    Last edited by LeaP; 08-16-2015 at 09:22 PM.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    Reading this thread, it seems that the definition of RLE
    This thread is not about fixing a definition of RLE, it is about discussing the TS members' experience of RLE. That was plain from the OP's comment "now discuss".

    Quote Originally Posted by Eryn View Post
    Here is an article that discusses the murky origins of the RLE in the the Erickson Educational Foundation. Apparently, it were created by Reed Erickson's personal physician!

    https://dspace.library.uvic.ca/bitst...=1&isAllowed=y

    The reasons given for the real-life test by the Guidelines are “to allow you to overcome awkwardness, establish new behavior patterns, and approach unfamiliar situations with an unforced inner confidence.” Rather than fixing the time period of the trial, it says, “[w]hen you have achieved this, the moment will have arrived for surgery to confirm the changes which you have so well prepared.”
    Actually, what you linked to was not an article about whatever, it was a pdf of a set of guidelines from EEF. And far from not mentioning a time period for the "trial", it says
    No part of your preparation for sex reassignment is more important than the first-hand experience of dressing, working, living in the desired gender role for a continuous and considerable period of time prior to surgery. Most gender identity clinics, and many physicians in private practice, require from six months to two years of cross-gender experience before recommending a patient for surgery.
    The colour and bold type were added by me to make it easier to find the quoted time-span

    From what I have read of these guidelines so far, they seem to be an early attempt in 1976 to set out some of what is now in the World Professional Association for Transgender Health guidelines and to offer practical advice for those who need to transition.
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