Rle

[LeaP]

Paula, you are addressing different kinds of issues in your response.

Take Theresa's comment at face value – but in terms of preference, not constraint. What does it say about someone who does not WANT to change their name and gender marker ... someone who lives in a place where it's possible?

The part of your post concerned with not wrecking various aspects of your life goes into something radically different than RLE when you start talking about people who want to maintain their employment, i.e., continuing to work as men. What ever you choose to call it or give for a rationale – preference, survival, whatever – one thing that it clearly is not is RLE.

[stefan37]

I sympathize with those that are down on their luck and barely scraping by. And I'm sure there are situations where it's difficult to get the market change. Maybe in Texas those cases are the norm. My comments are for the most part directed towards those individuals that are arguing it's OK to go full-time without any intention of changing their legal name or gender. Or living female except for.... I'm not referring to those actively transitioning and plan on coming out at work, but haven't yet. That is a timeline every one needs to make on their terms. But I do take exception to those that consider themselves full time and have no plans of coming out to family, friends or work.
The harsh brutal fact is transition is hard, it's fearful, it's very expensive. Many jump right in without nary a plan. No money, nor no prospect of it. If you're going to live as a woman, with legal male name and gender marker, no money. You are going to have a very hard road. Society is not very forgiving of those that present as women, but look like men. It's tragic, but it will be at least, 20 or more years before society at large starts to change their view.

In 50 years transitioned individuals will be a non issue. Late life transitioners will be a rarity. Tweaks individuals will be able to transition at a much earlier age and their integration will be seamless.

[Michelle789]

@Stefan,

You hit it on the nose in your last post. You mention "OK to go full-time without any intention of changing their legal name or gender"

I put intention in bold on purpose when I quoted you. That's the whole point. I would say that most TSes who plan on becoming women have every intention of changing their name and gender legally, and that every one of us who is transitioning has every intention of going living 24/7, and never reverting back to male mode.

Unfortunately, some of us have difficulty changing our names. This may be because of financial, legal, including biased judges, emotional, or fear of losing something you have. In some cases a name & gender change may never happen. In other cases, we want to change our name & gender, but it doesn't happen right away. It may take several years to actually go ahead and do that.

Same thing with living 24/7. We may have obstacles preventing us from coming out at work or presenting as women when around family members.

Let me say that just as there are people here who believe that you must rigidly change your name & gender immediately and give up male mode immediately, there are people that I know of personally who believe rigidly that you should revert to male mode in the event that a family member gets sick, and you need to take care of them, and they request that you be in male mode when family is present. I disagree with both sides. I believe it's up to an individual to decide what's best for their transition, and to execute transition to the best that circumstances allow. Sometimes, we just have no control over what circumstances life will present us.

I truly believe that most of us have every intent of living 24/7 as a woman and legally changing our names & gender markers. We may have to wait a while before we do either of those, but we will it eventually. My question is why should someone who lived 24/7 as a woman with legal male name & gender for two years be forced to start over again and not count anything before the legal name & gender marker change. Wasn't significant experience gained during those two years?

Why should someone who lived as a woman for 11 months and then is asked to take care of a family member, in male mode, on weekends for 6 months, but still lives every other aspect of their lives as women, be forced to forfeit those 11 months?

I could understand someone who goes to work as male and lives as a woman only on weekends as not even being close to full-time.

And there are people who choose not to live full-time, there are people who are gender fluid. They are separate cases from those of us who intend to transition fully to female. But I'm just not a cookbook kind of a girl, am I? In a perfect world, than yes we should follow rigid protocols. But we don't live in a perfect world, far from it. If the world was a perfect place, we would have been born in the right bodies after all and there would be no point in transitioning.

I believe in tailoring to individual circumstances, provided that the individual follows through, as best as circumstances will allow for. I do believe that there is a good reason why making plans is important? But what about the transwoman who just couldn't function living as a man, and could barely hold a job and had difficulty saving money or planning things? This is a cruel condition we have. GD doesn't care about life circumstances, and life circumstances doesn't care about GD.

[becky77]

This is only about RLE.
Michelle it's irrelevant what the law in Texas is when you live in California, if someone has no money for name change, then they have no money for SRS, so again irrelevant.

Are you looking into SRS? If not don't worry about all this, RLE is meaningless.
If you are looking into SRS, get serious and sort yourself out.

So you have been living full-time, we only have your word on that. If I was the therapist about to write you a letter for major surgery, would I take your word for it??
Me personally I wouldn't, I would want to see evidence.
That's not a reflection on you, it's because there are a lot of people cheating the system.

Now you can fight that all you like and talk about guidelines or the problems in some other country.
But truth is you DO live where you can change your name and you are dragging your heels.
As it currently stands you are living as a man that presents as a woman, undoubtedly you are transitioning but that's not typically RLE.

For most of us it's confusing why you wouldn't prioritise name change if you are full-time? How can you bare it?
Be honest with yourself, is there any chance you are holding back due to some niggling doubt that's stopping you fully committing?



Simple fact is and I repeat this yet again, RLE is only a means to surgery (HRT also in some places). If you are serious about having SRS, you should be serious about transition.
You shouldn't be looking at excuses, you should be concentrating on living as a woman, if you are doing it properly then the RLE will be done naturally.
If you are concerned over RLE, then perhaps you aren't doing it properly.

No one is making you change your name, but what if you decide you are ready for SRS, go for your letters and they ask for proof?

Btw I am not saying your transition experience is meaningless, I'm just saying it may not constitute RLE.
In my opinion (assuming you want SRS?), go find out what is needed in California, ask the person that would write your letters what she requires as that's the person who decides your particular RLE.

[PaulaQ]

The amount of callous privilege exhibited in this thread is just freaking sad. So let me get this straight - someone with gender dysphoria over their genitals that is serious enough to make them attempt suicide should wait for a year before surgery just to be sure they don't change their freaking mind? How does that make any sense? (Please see another thread I've started elsewhere - I'm not making this example up.)

But don't worry ladies - it doesn't affect you, so it's not a real problem!

I'm pretty disgusted by most of the responses here.

[stefan37]

We are discussing what we think our definition of RLE and as a collarary Full time. The wpath recommendations are what they are. Don't like them. Lobby to change them.

My definition is simple. Live full time, be full time. That includes work, home, social. Etc. If someone wants to live as female with male Id and gender marker. That's their business. Transition is hard enough. Someone wants to make it harder. Ok.

Transition is also a very long process. It's takes tremendous energy and expense to go from living gender to gender. Also all this discussion about wait time. Try and get a surgery date within a year. In my case alone it has been a year from consultation to surgery. And all US surgeons require a letter. Which includes RLE. Since the the therapist is the one making that determination. Our opinions are moot.

You know it would be great if society just gave us blanket acceptance and support. But the brutal truth is a large majority think of us as freaks. The majority accept binary gender. Those that go about their lives as Trans are targets. They suffer ridicule, scorn, extreme violence and in some cases serious bodily injury or death.
The wpath recommendations are in place to help those deal with their GD. And in the case of those that do need to transition a means to hopefully accomplish the transition without regret. Many cases of those that rocketed to SRS. Or gamed the system to get it often times regret the decision and then blast others for their failure to do due diligence.

I know of an individual that was accepted and loved my her family and friends. Was out at work and financially secure. Was gorgeous and fun to be with. Yet for reasons known only to her or her family if she left a note took her own life.

I only speak from my experience. I came out to family, friend, employees, and clients looking before I went "full time. Which by the way was over a year. I officially went fulltime ( my definition,) when my name change was granted and gender marker change. Was I accepted as vendor. Hell no. The members in my Sailing club that I joined after name change. (They didn't know me before) treated me with acceptance. But many used male pronouns and thought I was a feminine male. I lived for 15 months before being able to afford FFS. I hear all these stories how HRT changes your face and body to pass as female. I say bravo Sierra to that. I grew Small b cup breasts that was it. My facial structure screamed male. That's a fact. Today after 3 years on HRT. I have male in body physiology. No butt, no hips, large shoulders, hands, and chest. You can't just day to the world I'm female accept me. It doesn't work that way. It's hard work. Damn hard work. And after all this work there are many due to genetics will not be accepted by society as female.

If you think society is going to sit around the campfire singing Kumbaya while an individual is living as female with male Id, gender marker, facial hair you are living in LA LA land. It has nothing to do with privilege and I have mine screw others. How many that you are talking about Paula have a plan for transition and some type of game plan to accomplish their goals. One thing transition absolutely requires is patience. This is a long process measured in years. Expecting instant gratification is a recipe for disaster.

[Aprilrain]

Paula, I have to disagree, I think a year to get your shit sorted out ie change name and sex marker (if you can), come out to friends, family, work, etc. and come to terms with the aftermath of all of that ie divorce, fired, moving, meeting new friends etc. is the absolute bare minimum one should have to wait. Anyway, most surgeons require that time period so your body has time to get use to a totally different set of hormones. And most surgeons are scheduling at least 6 months out and often longer anyway. The fact that someone who has lived with their genitals for 30, 40, 50 years suddenly decides to attempt or at least make it seem as though they are attempting to kill themselves because of it is more a testament of their lack of stability than it is a need for a life altering, irreversible surgery of questionable efficacy.

[Jorja]

This is only about RLE.
Michelle it's irrelevant what the law in Texas is when you live in California, if someone has no money for name change, then they have no money for SRS, so again irrelevant.

Are you looking into SRS? If not don't worry about all this, RLE is meaningless.
If you are looking into SRS, get serious and sort yourself out.

So you have been living full-time, we only have your word on that. If I was the therapist about to write you a letter for major surgery, would I take your word for it??
Me personally I wouldn't, I would want to see evidence.
That's not a reflection on you, it's because there are a lot of people cheating the system.

Now you can fight that all you like and talk about guidelines or the problems in some other country.
But truth is you DO live where you can change your name and you are dragging your heels.
As it currently stands you are living as a man that presents as a woman, undoubtedly you are transitioning but that's not typically RLE.

For most of us it's confusing why you wouldn't prioritise name change if you are full-time? How can you bare it?
Be honest with yourself, is there any chance you are holding back due to some niggling doubt that's stopping you fully committing?



Simple fact is and I repeat this yet again, RLE is only a means to surgery (HRT also in some places). If you are serious about having SRS, you should be serious about transition.
You shouldn't be looking at excuses, you should be concentrating on living as a woman, if you are doing it properly then the RLE will be done naturally.
If you are concerned over RLE, then perhaps you aren't doing it properly.

No one is making you change your name, but what if you decide you are ready for SRS, go for your letters and they ask for proof?

Btw I am not saying your transition experience is meaningless, I'm just saying it may not constitute RLE.
In my opinion (assuming you want SRS?), go find out what is needed in California, ask the person that would write your letters what she requires as that's the person who decides your particular RLE.

Paula, I have to disagree, I think a year to get your shit sorted out ie change name and sex marker (if you can), come out to friends, family, work, etc. and come to terms with the aftermath of all of that ie divorce, fired, moving, meeting new friends etc. is the absolute bare minimum one should have to wait. Anyway, most surgeons require that time period so your body has time to get use to a totally different set of hormones. And most surgeons are scheduling at least 6 months out and often longer anyway. The fact that someone who has lived with their genitals for 30, 40, 50 years suddenly decides to attempt or at least make it seem as though they are attempting to kill themselves because of it is more a testament of their lack of stability than it is a need for a life altering, irreversible surgery of questionable efficacy.

These are the two best replies of this whole conversation. Good job girls! At least someone understands it.

[becky77]

I thought we were discussing RLE?

Paula If you want to talk about other people's misery lets open a new thread.
Privileged? Didn't you say you had your SRS date?

For your information I didn't write the rules on RLE, I'm desperate to get rid of this male genitalia, but I can't afford it.
So I'm relying on the NHS and that means I have to go by their process, probably another couple of years for me (huge waiting lists), how do you think that makes me feel?
Am I bitching about it? Am I telling everyone how I felt so low I nearly drove my car off the road?
Well I am now to prove a point, we all have problems. But as April said I've waited this long, what's a few more years?

Next you'll be telling me I can't say I dislike bacon, because somewhere in the world someone is starving.

Congratulations Paula you are a the ultimate Trans martyr, now can we please go back to the original subject.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Jeez paula..

Im not even sure this should be controversial..
if a person tries to commit suicide over their genitals that should lead to more time not less before any type of srs operation...that should lead to counseling and RLE , it should not be a fast track to a surgery...that's the last thing we need..

what you are suggesting is an insane proposition that sound ridiculous when you consider what it implies....I tried to kill myself, so operate on me...Operate on me or I will kill myself...
suicide attempts or thoughts are not "bonafides" for suffering... they are not tickets to something you need..

"Marry me" or I will kill myself..... "If you fire me, I will kill myself"... you posit that a suicide attempt is a marker for need, and therefore should be considered..... sorry that's not constructive and it just doesn't fly..

your last comment doesn't resonate with me...its not going to win anybody over... poverty, loss, depression, hopelessness and violence are not limited to West Texas and its sure as hell not limited to transsexuals..

Part of the ts RLE is that you can't have everything you want... you are not your dream woman, your body can't make babies, people will look/point at you, clothes wont fit right, wigs sweat, hair grows, you will raise your voice and laugh/cough too loud, you may suffer loss, the HRT is unpredictable, the surgeries can have complications and are not magic...you may not ever feel comfortable....that's REAL...

[LeaP]

... I think a year to get your shit sorted out ... is the absolute bare minimum one should have to wait. Anyway, most surgeons require that time period so your body has time to get use to a totally different set of hormones.

... The fact that someone who has lived with their genitals for 30, 40, 50 years suddenly decides to attempt or at least make it seem as though they are attempting to kill themselves because of it is more a testament of their lack of stability than it is a need for a life altering, irreversible surgery of questionable efficacy.

A year seems like a good starting point to me, though I've discussed a shorter period with both my therapist and doctor. Your comment on hormones is applicable, as one reason they agree to support a shorter period is the length of time I have been on hormones (3 years), including living with the andryogyny that's resulted. That doesn't replace the need for RLE, of course, but does inform the decision to flex the guidelines. Will I pursue the shorter period? Don't know yet. I'm trying to line up my ducks for several things right now and it makes the timeline look pretty daunting anyway.

I accept your basic point on stability in the second cite, all things equal, but it's also true to a point that it doesn't matter how one has coped through life. When SHTF or your bell is rung (pick your conception), it can get really bad really quickly. The same objection to transition itself is made by cis people all the time - why do you need this ... after all, you've lived your entire life so far ...

Kaitlyn, I want to play devil's advocate for a second. GD (real GD) is disabling by definition. Suicidality is one THE most prevalent consequences, as all of us know. Generalizing your response to lives and issues outside of the TS sphere doesn't help. Suicidality - like any other GD-related issue - is mitigated or "cured" by transition, assuming it's completely due to GD, of course. I do think there's an excellent argument for differentiating a suicide crisis from suicidality per se. But the presence of the latter should not put SRS out of scope, either.

[arbon]

,



Unfortunately, some of us have difficulty changing our names. This may be because of financial, legal, including biased judges, emotional, or fear of losing something you have. In some cases a name & gender change may never happen. In other cases, we want to change our name & gender, but it doesn't happen right away. It may take several years to actually go ahead and do that.

Same thing with living 24/7. We may have obstacles preventing us from coming out at work or presenting as women when around family members.

Let me say that just as there are people here who believe that you must rigidly change your name & gender immediately and give up male mode immediately, there are people that I know of personally who believe rigidly that you should revert to male mode in the event that a family member gets sick, and you need to take care of them, and they request that you be in male mode when family is present. I disagree with both sides. I believe it's up to an individual to decide what's best for their transition, and to execute transition to the best that circumstances allow. Sometimes, we just have no control over what circumstances life will present us.
.....
Why should someone who lived as a woman for 11 months and then is asked to take care of a family member, in male mode, on weekends for 6 months, but still lives every other aspect of their lives as women, be forced to forfeit those 11 months?

No one here says you must change your name and gender immediately.
No one disagrees that an individual must set the pace for their transition and do what is best for them based on their circumstances.

There is, in my opinion, a line between full time and not full time though. Or RLE and non RLE if you must. And I am a person who had to go through some hell to change her name, who had to put survival ahead of full time for a while. Who lost her house and went bankrupt and became a roommate in her wifes home during that period of being out but not full time. I am very aware of how hard it can be. So don't give me all that you are not understanding how bad it can be crap. My nerves at that time were shot, I was suicidal, self destructive, I twitched all the time from stress.. I came on here and made stupid arguments about being full time except.
Do you think SRS was going to fix those living problems? that period it was for me to get my life on track again, that was the priority not SRS.
You talk about forfeiting time, there is no one to forfeit to! It does not matter to anyone but the person. If you are not yet to a place where you can deal with those hard situations as a woman are you really ready for such a major surgery? It is not going to make you better able to deal with them.

But don't worry ladies - it doesn't affect you, so it's not a real problem!

I'm pretty disgusted by most of the responses here.

Pauala! Please don't try to shame us like that. I think most of us have gone through plenty and are sharing based on what we have experienced in our lives.
We know it is not always easy. I begged, borrowed, and delivered pizza...and did some things that I really was not proud of, for my SRS. And that was a lot easier than what I had to go through earlier in my transition to get to full time!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Soooo insightful!!!!!

i lied, i stole, i cheated...i debased myself in many ways as self punishment...is my suffering and loss invalid because i was born in a better place with a better starting point?
should i be ashamed of being born with some priviledges...nope.

Trust me, I know ALL ABOUT shame...

It really is totally and completely wrong to rank suffering as if suicidal ideation is the standard...and attempting suicide gets you to a desired result...

as far as the whole what is RLE question
To write down words to try to say something is what it is not is such a sad waste of energy..

if you have gender dysphoria, definitions will not help you, labels will not help you, negotiation will not help you..

being yourself is what will help you...it doesnt matter what you call it.... but calling RLE exactly what it is helps us all communicate and find the best way to help ourselves

[stefan37]

I might add one other factor which isn't talked much about. What happens when the surgery goes awrye. How is the individual that is that suicidal if they don't get SRS going to cope with the fact that the surgery wasn't a success. There are complications such as graft necrosis, rectal/vaginal fistula requiring a colostomy bag. Granular tissue.

Lea you talk of a shorter time frame when you eventually go full time. You also mention FFS. Some do get both FFS and SRS at the same time. That's a difficult thing and a long time under the knife. I couldn't imagine recovering from FFS at the same time recovering from SRS. So you need to prioritize. US surgeons are for the most part booked a year or farther out. Allowing the body to heal and recover makes sense when contemplating multiple surgeries.

[Frances]

I agree with Kaitlyn. If it's now or never, then more therapy is needed, not surgery. Social transition is everything. SRS will not change anything for a transitioner who will never pass. The viewpoint of the government program I went through was that transitioners should be so well integrated that SRS did not matter anymore. (They also paid for it.)

[Nigella]

Wow, just wow, what an emotive discussion this thread has developed into

[Badtranny]

Man I love it when my girls 'get all up in it'.

PaulaQ, your recent post sounds an awful lot like the old PaulaQ that I was convinced was probably crazy, until I met you that is. Please review your tone on that one because the other gals have some damn good rebuttals.

Arbon, I am blown away by your growth as an authentic person. It appears that while I was away, you had quite a life. I'm also happy to see that you now understand and advocate for the difference between being real, and wearing women's clothes. Sometimes I think that transitioning is a little bit like being dragged behind a truck, ...it totally messes up your hair.

Ladies, this RLE thing is just a Three Letter Acronym for early transition. We can argue all day about why it should or shouldn't be required, but even if it wasn't, I would personally want to be very careful about THAT surgery anyway.

My therapist told me that gender was a lived experience, meaning it is impossible to experience life as a woman unless you are out there interacting in all things as a woman. CD's like to say they spend days as a woman, but what they really mean is they dress up and stay in their house. Putting women's clothes on a man does not make him a woman. These people who say "I live most of my life as a woman". What are they talking about? Are they out living their life 'as a woman' or are they just dressing up and shopping? Living your life 'as a woman' requires complete immersion. There can be no 'safety plan'. The RLE is the safety plan. If you can't handle the first year in full immersion (everything, bills, paychecks, loans, buying/selling) then you are simply not ready for a gender transition. There is nothing wrong with not being ready. Maybe you'll be ready for the second year, but the 'system' wants to see a full year of living completely in your target gender under your belt before they sign off on a surgery that will change your life forever. I don't see a problem with that, and I am practically an anarchist.

What Arbon has learned is that there is a huuuuuge difference between living your real life as a woman and dressing like a woman. She has probably also learned that living as a woman, may not even include dressing like a woman. At the end of it all, people who transition don't do it for the clothes. We do it for the peace. I'm not working now, so I've spent the last two days without a shower in sweat pants and a tshirt and no underwear. I haven't had a reason to leave the house so I haven't. Now a CD might have used this time to "live as a woman" for two whole days and maybe run through several outfit changes and of course panties. I am the one who is actually living like a woman because that is how the rest of the world knows me by now. My entire life is in a woman's name. Melissa's mail comes to my address. My rapidly dwindling savings account is in Melissa's name. There is no doubt that I have committed to this thing that I said was important to me. That's what RLE is about. It isn't about dresses or surgeries, it's about commitment. Transition requires a resolve like nothing else. There is no ladder into the abyss, you must jump.

The 'gatekeepers' don't know your heart. They don't know your spirit. They may not have seen your "How girly am I?" test results. All they know is what you show them and if you show them excuses about why you can't commit to the process. Can't commit to a life as your target gender. Isn't it reasonable that they would be reluctant to make things worse by helping you go down a road that you, yourself aren't even sure you want to be on?

[Suzanne F]

What a thread! Yes I am painfully aware of the difference in dressing up and being a woman. Yes I think it takes more than just screaming I need surgery for the medical field to opt to perform surgery. I think RLE means living as a woman. I do think the individual therapist should have the ability to determine whether the person in question is really on track to do this. I want to advocate however for people who have a well thought out plan for transition. Everyone here knows I came out at work yesterday and had my name and gender changed legally this week. Both things had been discussed at length with my psychiatrist, my therapist and my endocrinologist. As a team we have been battling this together. This has allowed me to live as a woman in all kinds of situations the last year and a half except work. This allowed me to start hormones 4 months ago knowing I had a little more time before revealing at work. Now the timing of disclosing at work should protect me from having my insurance affected before I have SRS. I have all the required letters from the three health professionals involved here. By the time I have surgery , next June hopefully, think it will have been apparent I did my part of the work. However if I had been required to a strict reading of RLE then I would have had to come out at work and risk losing my valuable insurance that will pay for the very surgery I require to live as myself! Note that is just my requirement, not for anyone else. My point is that I was encouraged to come up with a plan. I did and I think it is working!
Suzanne

[LeaP]

Steph, there is no ways on God's good earth that I would consider FFS and SRS at the same time!!! I wouldn't even consider FFS and a BA at the same time. I would LIKE to pursue FFS before pulling the pin ... I mean, what the heck - if you're going to pull the pin and HOLD ON to the grenade, why not get the face fixed in advance? That may not be possible anyway as time is short. And if not, I would wait for a healing time of 6 months for SRS at least anyways. There are other factors that may play anyway, particularly insurance. What I want may not be what I get. No problem - I'll deal.

On topic, it seems hard to argue against mental stability as a requirement for deciding on a life-changing surgery. I'm all for stability. Had I gone down the path before I started sorting myself out and stabilizing, transition (and certainly surgeries) would have been an absolute disaster.

On the other hand (surely you knew this was coming), such stability is not only not required for surgery, WPATH has recognized that people with various impairments may be candidates for surgery. From the SOC7, page 25:

The presence of coexisting mental health concerns does not necessarily preclude possible change in gender role or access to feminizing/masculizing hormones or surgery; rather, these concerns need to be optimally managed prior to, or concurrent with, treatment of gender dysphoria. In addition, client should be assessed for the their ability to provide educated and informed consent for medical treatments.

"Optimally managed" is a bus-sized hole, of course. The ability to consent is pretty absolute in this context. Nonetheless, the possibility remains open, subject to the judgement of the providers involved.

[edit] I should mention that the context of the SOC quote is provided in the preceeding paragraph, and includes: "... anxiety, depression, self-harm, a history of abuse and neglect, compulsivity, substance abuse, sexual concerns, personality disorders, eating disorders, psychotic disorders, and autistic spectrum disorders." I.e., they aren't talking about impatience and frustration.

[arbon]

I'm also happy to see that you now understand and advocate for the difference between being real, and wearing women's clothes. Sometimes I think that transitioning is a little bit like being dragged behind a truck, ...it totally messes up your hair.

What Arbon has learned is that there is a huuuuuge difference between living your real life as a woman and dressing like a woman. She has probably also learned that living as a woman, may not even include dressing like a woman. At the end of it all, people who transition don't do it for the clothes.

The 'gatekeepers' don't know your heart. They don't know your spirit. They may not have seen your "How girly am I?" test results. All they know is what you show them and if you show them excuses about why you can't commit to the process. Can't commit to a life as your target gender. Isn't it reasonable that they would be reluctant to make things worse by helping you go down a road that you, yourself aren't even sure you want to be on?

It was NEVER EVER about the cloths for me and I don't really appreciate the implication you make that it was while trying to make your point. It has always been about my identity. Cloths were a means to an end in how others saw me. I never thought of it as a her mode or his mode.
I did not change my name and fully transition when I wanted because my work was not going along with it. I was told no and then they tried to make me quit. I got myself stuck in a corner. A year and a half later when I forced the issue by legally changing my name I expected to be fired but was instead given a dress code that prohibited me from skirts, dresses, makeup or looking to feminine while at work because they were to chicken $hit to actually try to fire me. You told me at the time that was not going to serve me well to not dress more feminine. It was not about the cloths and never was.

It WAS about commitment as you say though. I had to deal with the work issue eventually to move forward, before being able to deal with all the rest of it. I had to be committed to being me and doing what it was going to take to make it real. No one else could do it for me.

When I went for my letters RLE was a non issue and I expected no resistance to receiving the letters and got none because I was by that point very confident in who I was. All the hard fights had been fought and won. When I had gone for a different letter a year earlier I was not as confident or sure of myself. Still it was not about the cloths but about being comfortable with myself and who I am.

edit:

I would also say about RLE - I am opinionated about having your name changed, but the time frame of RLE for surgery should be completely between the person, their therapists and doctors and no one else because everyone is different and their time for readiness is different.

[Aprilrain]

I might add one other factor which isn't talked much about. What happens when the surgery goes awrye. How is the individual that is that suicidal if they don't get SRS going to cope with the fact that the surgery wasn't a success.

Exactly right! I can attest to the fact that surgeries do not always go as planed. I've had 4 surgeries and all of them have left scars of one sort or another. If the point of SRS was to create a functioning sex organ than my surgery has been a failure. And just so everyone who thinks SRS is the holy grail knows, DILATION SUCKS and you have to do it for the rest of your life!!

[Zooey]

I believe in the usefulness of standards - they're designed to prevent the most obvious and/or common problems in the vast majority of cases, and more often than not they do exactly that.

I also believe that standards are not laws, and that there are always exceptional cases that warrant special treatment (even if such treatment is in direct violation of the usual standards). The vast majority of people who believe they are an exceptional case are, in fact, NOT exceptional cases, but if a medical team feels or can be convinced that special treatment is warranted then special treatment should happen - whatever that may mean.

Handling special cases does not mean that the prevailing standard has no value in the other 95% of cases, and in fact the level of scrutiny should be higher for special cases than it is for standards-conforming cases.

[Badtranny]

It was NEVER EVER about the cloths for me and I don't really appreciate the implication you make that it was while trying to make your point. .

I didn't make myself clear. Obviously. :-*

I was saying that you now know and advocate for the difference because of the difficulties you had to endure to be real. Perhaps you didn't transition for the clothes, but before the full transition, you don't really KNOW what you'll find on the other side. I didn't spend much time cross dressing but I'll tell you right now I wasn't able to articulate the difference between dressing like a woman and being one until fairly recently. It took actually living as a woman for me to clearly see the divide between pretending and being. Maybe I'm a slow learner.

Have we been in so many arguments that you are unable to recognize when I'm on your side? :-)

[LeaP]

There is another thread going concerning year two, post transition. If year two is more difficult, what does that say about the efficacy – or perhaps length – of RLE?

[Peggie Lee]

There is another thread going concerning year two, post transition. If year two is more difficult, what does that say about the efficacy – or perhaps length – of RLE?

LeaP
As for me, RLE began 18 months ago and life's ups and downs will always be there no matter what, I have not experienced any difference in my second year other than my SRS date is now only 60 days away.